MOM Launch - a 2nd disaster in the making ?

Ok, so let me get this right.
We're launching MOM in March.
All of the things that decimated the LOTRO population before are going to be implimented ?????
How is that a clever thing to do SSG ?


Reminder :-

Crafting decimated -
Weaponsmith - no use once Legendaries introduced except off hand which means all the time I reinvested in my weaponsmith is wasted for a second time ?!!!
Tailor & Metalsmith - lvl 60 raid armour means that everybody needs to have a certain set which means crafted armour isn't needed, unlike SOA where Rift armour is nice but not needed to run late game instances.

Legendary Weapon drudgery -
One of the key things I remember in both the books and films were members of the ring group routinely discarding their weapons and having the local blacksmith reforge them, hmmm, actually I don't remember that, in fact it doesn't even happen in medieval RPG/MMO games and yet we're going with this inane game mechanic for a second time.

Maps -
In some areas the maps were a giant waste of time, it was better just to navigate by memory

Quests -
When you compare the original Great Barrow or original Goblin City set up, that's how questing through the underground should be done, not placing random mobs every 5 feet and then putting said mobs on a short rez timer to "increase difficulty". How about patrols of goblins of orcs moving through the mines, groups of say 15, which is both realistic and a challenge.


Let me put this as a direct question to SSG = "What are you doing differently this time ?"

If your answer is nothing then that's fine its your choice, but in which case here's advance notice that I'll be cancelling my direct debit some time in March rather than go through the same gameplay mistakes I've already gone through before.

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Originally Posted by JezzadeBraose

Let me put this as a direct question to SSG = "What are you doing differently this time ?"

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Moria has been revamped twice since its release. Here's the difference... (+ radiance + you'll get to experience skirmish before Mirkwood + etc...)

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Originally Posted by RubenRybnick

Moria has been revamped twice since its release. Here's the difference... (+ radiance + you'll get to experience skirmish before Mirkwood + etc...)

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OK, in which case SSG would probably be best served by stating what's different vs the original MOM

I don't really understand the radiance part, are you saying radiance is no longer tied to a set armour piece i.e. I can wear crafted armour and add radiance to it ? If not, if radiance is still tied to set armour pieces then I'm still required to get those armour pieces.

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Originally Posted by JezzadeBraose

Ok, so let me get this right.
We're launching MOM in March.
All of the things that decimated the LOTRO population before are going to be implimented ?????
How is that a clever thing to do SSG ?


Reminder :-

Crafting decimated -
Weaponsmith - no use once Legendaries introduced except off hand which means all the time I reinvested in my weaponsmith is wasted for a second time ?!!!
Tailor & Metalsmith - lvl 60 raid armour means that everybody needs to have a certain set which means crafted armour isn't needed, unlike SOA where Rift armour is nice but not needed to run late game instances.

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Atm the Setarmor is in a very, very bad state.
That is for a long while, but now a greater community is going to use them (again).

The Best Setup is to use Nadim, what you cant craft, only _farm_.

Think 2nd best will be the Crafted, at least for a great group of players, that do not think the setbonus will get a bigger benefit for the fellowship, as the Lorienarmor for Captain will do - as far, as i can see as captain (RC CD 6sec).
The Moria Armor _is_ for the Captain and Warden nowadays so bad, that my Level 60 Chars do not use them.
The Mini Armour was ok (use 4x Moria and 2 Parts from DN - around same Stats, as Lorien Gem-Armour)
The Champions Armor is one of the bestlooking Armor on Dwarfs and will be used, at least as fancywork :-)

The Weaponsmith create the Legendary Weapons. At least the 2nd and 3rd ages. Good offhands for Champion, Burgs and Hunters.
In Addition you can create the Handcrafted one, that is mainly the point why a lot of Endgameplayer do the work.
If they are tradeable (the golden) then you would see far more Chars without Craftingtool in the slot.

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Originally Posted by JezzadeBraose

Legendary Weapon drudgery -
One of the key things I remember in both the books and films were members of the ring group routinely discarding their weapons and having the local blacksmith reforge them, hmmm, actually I don't remember that, in fact it doesn't even happen in medieval RPG/MMO games and yet we're going with this inane game mechanic for a second time.

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Here, they could introduce the new concept, but that would be some work and a fork of the mainserver.
Else, for me would that also ok. the difference would be only that you have to increase the amount of scrolls and the kind of scolls you have to use.
and and and.
That would be smart, but i dont think that will happen.

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Originally Posted by JezzadeBraose

Let me put this as a direct question to SSG = "What are you doing differently this time ?"

If your answer is nothing then that's fine its your choice, but in which case here's advance notice that I'll be cancelling my direct debit some time in March rather than go through the same gameplay mistakes I've already gone through before.

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You wrote what happens in your case, but
With Moria you get a good reworked area, nice instance and in combination with lorien a good Raid.
The Questline in Moria was after the Rework more better, except the middlepart of the Epic. More Questhubs and Goats to travel back faster from anoyings areas.

Then you will also miss Mirkwood and Enethwaith that let you play 2 of the greatest Raids and the most common Farm-Instance, the wargpens :-)
or if you like to play instances for the fun, you get in addition the nice Samath Gul(?).

Then comes Isengart again with a great, if not the greatest Raid.

Then, one update later (Level Cap 85) is the time, where the farm increase to a state, that killed me the fun of the game. Then is a good time to leave :-)
You get a very borring and spit "raids"

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Originally Posted by JezzadeBraose

OK, in which case SSG would probably be best served by stating what's different vs the original MOM

I don't really understand the radiance part, are you saying radiance is no longer tied to a set armour piece i.e. I can wear crafted armour and add radiance to it ? If not, if radiance is still tied to set armour pieces then I'm still required to get those armour pieces.

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Radiance was a bad idea, and gone with Mirkwood.
No need for Radiance as is left the game. there is not debuff, you have to counter.

The Error comes back and is called Light and is used in Mordor, i goes at the moment and you get a passive stat as you increase in level.

I'm sorry, but the only answer to this kind of doom-saying and resentment is: leave. Since apparently, according to you, the game population has been decimated and is in shambles since the *original launch of Moria* in 2008 - almost 11 years ago! - what exactly are you doing here? What sense is there to complaint about the very concept of legendary items, as if it happened yesterday? Your perception of what Moria is is completed skewed, if you think Moria as a whole should just like one single instance like Great Barrows. And the idea that the game should be remade from the ground up or you'll cancel your subscription is just ridiculous. I personally can't understand what kept you playing, if all the things that have been here since 2008, to say it again, are somehow unbearable to you.

There's a lot of things to improve, constructive criticism and debate is good, but what you are doing is demanding to talk to the manager because your ice water is too icy. Good riddance.

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Originally Posted by Heimwald

I'm sorry, but the only answer to this kind of doom-saying and resentment is: leave. Since apparently, according to you, the game population has been decimated and is in shambles since the *original launch of Moria* in 2008 - almost 11 years ago! - what exactly are you doing here? What sense is there to complaint about the very concept of legendary items, as if it happened yesterday? Your perception of what Moria is is completed skewed, if you think Moria as a whole should just like one single instance like Great Barrows. And the idea that the game should be remade from the ground up or you'll cancel your subscription is just ridiculous. I personally can't understand what kept you playing, if all the things that have been here since 2008, to say it again, are somehow unbearable to you.

There's a lot of things to improve, constructive criticism and debate is good, but what you are doing is demanding to talk to the manager because your ice water is too icy. Good riddance.

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that's a pointless, bordering on idiotic, response.

It's not according to me that the game population was decimated, it's provable things like server populations, server amalgamations and might I add, the launch of the legendary servers as a last gasp way to generate revenue.
All you've got to do is take off your blinkers and re-read the forum posts, people reporting kin's dying on their feet etc.. all the evidence is right here in the old posts.


What exactly am I doing here ? - I came back because SOA was so great.

"If you think Moria as a whole should just like one instance like Great Barrows" -- umm no, try reading the original post again, I was talking about how underground questing etc.... should be handled

I'm not asking the game to be rebuilt, I'm asking lessons to be learnt and changes made or suffer the same result, which is this case is those returning players leaving again and revenue much needed by SSG going for a walk.

Incidentally your "good riddance" point sums up your thinking, the game is dying, the developers try a last throw of the dice, legendary servers, to keep it going, if it doesn't work LOTRO folds fairly soon, and your response is "good riddance", talk about completely obvlivious to the realities of running a software company !!

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Originally Posted by JezzadeBraose

LOTRO folds fairly soon

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I wish I had a nickel for every time someone said that... I'd... have a lot of nickels.

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Originally Posted by JezzadeBraose

Incidentally your "good riddance" point sums up your thinking, the game is dying, the developers try a last throw of the dice, legendary servers, to keep it going, if it doesn't work LOTRO folds fairly soon, and your response is "good riddance", talk about completely obvlivious to the realities of running a software company !!

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We are all dying ... Repeating it all day will not change anything. ;)
Even Wow's numbers are decreasing over time. That's just called life you know ;)


By the way, you talk about Moria and its original flaws but it seems that you were not even there at its original release (radiance ?) !! Moria is one of the best extensions of the game, it has its flaws, but they are much less numerous than the other extensions.

Yes, good riddance. And here's my thinking: it's not up to any game developer to recreate the joys of your youth, and you 'll never have that back. You're not engaging in the specifics of gameplay, quality of life improvements, or any actual content in Lotro. You're using absurd hyperbole about how the game is doomed - doomed, I say! - if it doesn't make you, personally, feel like you felt 11 years ago, and experience the same things you experienced then. You're not looking for a game in which to engage, have fun, and enjoy your free time; you're looking for some kind of psychological reward, and coming to the forums to express some misplaced anger about all the punishment coming to those who do not conform to your wishes. Is it too hard to say "this is not for me, I should move on"? Why do you wish the demise of Lotro if it's not exactly what you, personally, imagine you want?

What irks me, and makes me engage in a stupid internet debate, is that you say literally that the game is a disaster since the original launch of Moria more than 10 years ago. Do you really believe this makes any sense? That the game lasted more than 10 years after the event you pinpoint as a irredeemable disaster is somehow proof that you're correct in saying that Moria should completely overhauled?

Seriously, you need help. We're not dealing with the game here, but with your mental health. Please, take a step back, and think about it.

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Originally Posted by RubenRybnick

We are all dying ... Repeating it all day will not change anything. ;)
Even Wow's numbers are decreasing over time. That's just called life you know ;)


By the way, you talk about Moria and its original flaws but it seems that you were not even there at its original release (radiance ?) !! Moria is one of the best extensions of the game, it has its flaws, but they are much less numerous than the other extensions.

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I was there, I remember us all gathering in Rivendell waiting for the content to be opened.

I don't know about the other extensions, I had 5 at 50, took 2 through to 60 and by that point kins were folding and I'd had enough of legendary weapon grind, so no idea how MOM compares to what came after.

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Originally Posted by Heimwald

Yes, good riddance. And here's my thinking: it's not up to any game developer to recreate the joys of your youth, and you 'll never have that back. You're not engaging in the specifics of gameplay, quality of life improvements, or any actual content in Lotro. You're using absurd hyperbole about how the game is doomed - doomed, I say! - if it doesn't make you, personally, feel like you felt 11 years ago, and experience the same things you experienced then. You're not looking for a game in which to engage, have fun, and enjoy your free time; you're looking for some kind of psychological reward, and coming to the forums to express some misplaced anger about all the punishment coming to those who do not conform to your wishes. Is it too hard to say "this is not for me, I should move on"? Why do you wish the demise of Lotro if it's not exactly what you, personally, imagine you want?

What irks me, and makes me engage in a stupid internet debate, is that you say literally that the game is a disaster since the original launch of Moria more than 10 years ago. Do you really believe this makes any sense? That the game lasted more than 10 years after the event you pinpoint as a irredeemable disaster is somehow proof that you're correct in saying that Moria should completely overhauled?

Seriously, you need help. We're not dealing with the game here, but with your mental health. Please, take a step back, and think about it.

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I'm not sure if you're deliberately mis-reading my comments or you just struggle with comprehension.

I'm not asking them to recreate the game from 11 years ago or I wouldn't be playing SOA now on the Legendary server would i ?

Is there anything you don't understand with that simple statement before I move onto more complex statements ?

Moving onto the game since the original launch of Moria, show me the server population numbers before the launch of whatever came after MOM vs Server population numbers before launch of MOM.
It's not even a debatable point, and you don't even need to use google, you can just trawl through the old comments on this very forum.
So none of this is conjecture, its fact.

LOTRO at one time was hoping to rival WOW, that's a lot of people and big aspirations, it takes time to reduce that base which is why the game has soldiered on for 10 or so years.

Anyway, it's not me saying the game is "doomed", just read the coverage of the Legendary server release, it was mentioned in more than one report why they were going with a subscription server.

Finally, I don't really care what you think, the game changes or those who've returned leave together with their much needed revenue, it's not your decision to make or indeed mine what SSG do.
From my point of view I'm hoping SSG prempt any revenue loss by learning from the mistakes of the past.

Clearly the OP wants his burger to look and feel precisely as it appears on the menu here. The reality is it never will.
Do you play on the 'other main' servers? If so your argument is moot because the content wholly is the same everywhere save
that the game is paced and in place to 1. Have playerbase start at the beginning on a level playing field. (As advertised by SSG at the start)
2. Provide the springboard for players to be social and group. 3. Allow the core fans of the epic aspects of the game to be revisted and be
on a fixed timeframe. Thats pretty much it. SSG never said they were going to revamp or rework maps, items, or storylines.
Those of us who play on these servers play it because it is what it is...a start over on a level playing field.
Moria doesn't need to be and shouldn't be changed, if anything slightly more challenging for solo as it was at first launch.
Anyway if you quit then okay be off then. The game cant revolve around you.

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Originally Posted by JezzadeBraose

Let me put this as a direct question to SSG = "What are you doing differently this time ?"

If your answer is nothing then that's fine its your choice, but in which case here's advance notice that I'll be cancelling my direct debit some time in March rather than go through the same gameplay mistakes I've already gone through before.

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Gameplay has been the same as the main servers up to now, why would you expect that to change? They may add some new titles, a few cosmetics, maybe T2/T3 on Moria instances. A couple random "class balance" changes that make things worse. If you expect more than that, not sure what to tell you.

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Originally Posted by JezzadeBraose

Let me put this as a direct question to SSG = "What are you doing differently this time ?"

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Differently compared to what?

Compared to the original release of Mines of Moria from 2008? There have been thousands of changes, both to the game itself and to Moria, since then. Far too many changes to list here.

Compared to the Moria region as it currently exists on the standard servers? To a first approximation there will be no difference at all. Gameplay on the Legendary servers is no different from gameplay on the standard servers currently, and there is no reason to expect that to change.

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Originally Posted by JezzadeBraose

OK, in which case SSG would probably be best served by stating what's different vs the original MOM.

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They've stated that over and over again in the various change notes since Moria's release. You can't really expect them to come out and list all the changes made to a region each and every time someone enters it. You either need to research old data yourself or just play with a fresh mind. Just to help you out I'll do it for you this time. I couldn't find part 1, but here's part 2 in what they've done.

https://www.lotro.com/en/game/articl...-moria-part-ii

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Originally Posted by JezzadeBraose

Ok, so let me get this right.
We're launching MOM in March.
All of the things that decimated the LOTRO population before are going to be implimented ?????
How is that a clever thing to do SSG ?


Reminder :-

Crafting decimated -
Weaponsmith - no use once Legendaries introduced except off hand which means all the time I reinvested in my weaponsmith is wasted for a second time ?!!!
Tailor & Metalsmith - lvl 60 raid armour means that everybody needs to have a certain set which means crafted armour isn't needed, unlike SOA where Rift armour is nice but not needed to run late game instances.

Legendary Weapon drudgery -
One of the key things I remember in both the books and films were members of the ring group routinely discarding their weapons and having the local blacksmith reforge them, hmmm, actually I don't remember that, in fact it doesn't even happen in medieval RPG/MMO games and yet we're going with this inane game mechanic for a second time.

Maps -
In some areas the maps were a giant waste of time, it was better just to navigate by memory

Quests -
When you compare the original Great Barrow or original Goblin City set up, that's how questing through the underground should be done, not placing random mobs every 5 feet and then putting said mobs on a short rez timer to "increase difficulty". How about patrols of goblins of orcs moving through the mines, groups of say 15, which is both realistic and a challenge.


Let me put this as a direct question to SSG = "What are you doing differently this time ?"

If your answer is nothing then that's fine its your choice, but in which case here's advance notice that I'll be cancelling my direct debit some time in March rather than go through the same gameplay mistakes I've already gone through before.

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Somebody didn't eat breakfast and had a bad start to their day. And for somebody who later in this thread wrote that they don't care what other players think, why would you post this thread on the forums then? Why not just send the developer a direct email? Why not read all the changes and patch notes to Moria after they revisited it? If they have said during stream more information to come on Moria, like they are doing an itemization pass this week per their stream, why would they then come to the forums to break the news to you first? Silly.

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Originally Posted by JezzadeBraose

that's a pointless, bordering on idiotic, response.

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really? insulting someone because they just so happened to disagree with your comments. very nice.

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I'm not asking the game to be rebuilt, I'm asking lessons to be learnt and changes made or suffer the same result, which is this case is those returning players leaving again and revenue much needed by SSG going for a walk.

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um, it sure looks that way with your complaints. oh, wait. sorry. your "reminders".

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Originally Posted by JezzadeBraose

I'm not sure if you're deliberately mis-reading my comments or you just struggle with comprehension.

I'm not asking them to recreate the game from 11 years ago or I wouldn't be playing SOA now on the Legendary server would i ?

Is there anything you don't understand with that simple statement before I move onto more complex statements ?

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there you go again, insulting someone. save the trolling for social media, not the forums.

i have to agree with the "good riddance" comments. why wait for March to end your sub? do it now and save us the trouble of your poorly formed diatribes.

I really don't quite understand what people are hoping from these servers...

SSG has made it explicitly clear, and I do mean explicitly, that they are investing no additional resources onto these servers, they are, for the most part, carbon copies of the live servers with a few things cut out and invisible walls / travel restrictions around the areas you're not allowed to visit yet.

And if anyone expects more, I'm sorry, you're kidding yourself.

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Originally Posted by Hephburz-2

I really don't quite understand what people are hoping from these servers...

SSG has made it explicitly clear, and I do mean explicitly, that they are investing no additional resources onto these servers, they are, for the most part, carbon copies of the live servers with a few things cut out and invisible walls / travel restrictions around the areas you're not allowed to visit yet.

And if anyone expects more, I'm sorry, you're kidding yourself.

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I expect it was a bit naive but I had thought that maybe they were hoping to use it as a form of extended balance pass on the whole game since they would be getting reams of data about how post-U23 characters fare in the various quests and instances and so on as we move up one level cap at a time. They apparently can't even release a functional patch any more though (do they have QA staff any more or did they get chucked in December as well?), so I can't see how they'll prioritise or find any time to work on difficulty or itemisation or any other ongoing issues that will get thrown up as we move into Moria and beyond. It's obviously a rough time for their company but I'm at a bit of a loss for how to support them in a way that doesn't signal that they are making the right choices (which they very much aren't) with regards to lootboxes/monetisation/loot/classes/raiding/stats and so on.

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Originally Posted by Aelbryht

(do they have QA staff any more or did they get chucked in December as well?)

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Firing up the in-game credits can be educational. I think SoA lists 50-60 beta testers. Mordor listed 6.

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Originally Posted by Hephburz-2

I really don't quite understand what people are hoping from these servers...

SSG has made it explicitly clear, and I do mean explicitly, that they are investing no additional resources onto these servers, they are, for the most part, carbon copies of the live servers with a few things cut out and invisible walls / travel restrictions around the areas you're not allowed to visit yet.

And if anyone expects more, I'm sorry, you're kidding yourself.

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Why do you think they just reworked some low level jewlery sets? For the legendary servers. Theres also Legendary Server only quests and titles. But sure, tell yourself they somehow didn't invest at least a little bit of extra resources into this legendary server specific stuff lol.

The main point of the Legendary servers are for:
1. Players to experience the wonderful content of the base game anew, which for most happened long, long ago without the option or need to zoom through it. For most, with now better computers.
2. Also to play in a friendlier, less aggressive, less demanding and less childish community, which usually tends to happen when people are not playing for FREE and are willing to Pay to Play.
3. Players also want a less WHINING annoying player base, which tend to be drama queens and use words like 'disaster' and 'decimated' and such sensational nebulous words.
If the above doesn't sound too good, it wasn't meant to be, and maybe these servers are not for you.

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Originally Posted by Varkking

Why do you think they just reworked some low level jewlery sets? For the legendary servers. Theres also Legendary Server only quests and titles. But sure, tell yourself they somehow didn't invest at least a little bit of extra resources into this legendary server specific stuff lol.

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Oh wow.... yeah sorry...

I'm sure that re-statting existing armour/jewellery, making existing quests repeatable and rewarding you with a shiny title took a 'lot longer' than 5 minutes work...

k.

*shrug* I'm personally looking forward to the MoM release. Even if nothing at all changes in Moria regarding the content in the zone, the atmosphere will. The density of players running around questing will be really nice IMO as on live it can feel very empty and lonely in there without others around (except in 21st Hall). I'm also looking foward to having more people running the Moria Cluster instances and have them be on lvl.

Honestly, if you're not interested in playing unless MoM is exactly like it used to be, then you don't have to play. There will be plenty of us who will.

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Originally Posted by Hephburz-2

Oh wow.... yeah sorry...

I'm sure that re-statting existing armour/jewellery, making existing quests repeatable and rewarding you with a shiny title took a 'lot longer' than 5 minutes work...

k.

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Now explain the new update today that updated a load of level 60 gear and nerfed Nadhin. Sounds like a lot longer than 5 minutes of work. This wasn't done for end game. This was done specifically with legendary servers in mind. Take your L. Don't say things like they explicitly stated no extra resources were going to be invested into these servers when that wasn't true. This is like the third time in two weeks they changed some of the 60 sets around and then nerfed essence gear today based off of this servers feedback. Sounds like it hurt a lot of people at end game on live but the change was made clearly with our servers in mind.

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Originally Posted by Gwinthilnel

*shrug* I'm personally looking forward to the MoM release. Even if nothing at all changes in Moria regarding the content in the zone, the atmosphere will. The density of players running around questing will be really nice IMO as on live it can feel very empty and lonely in there without others around (except in 21st Hall). I'm also looking foward to having more people running the Moria Cluster instances and have them be on lvl.

Honestly, if you're not interested in playing unless MoM is exactly like it used to be, then you don't have to play. There will be plenty of us who will.

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I completely agree. I'm a Bullroarer tester (and have been around since a couple months after the game launched) and I get providing constructive feedback. Ultimately the experience may not be what some folks want. They can deal with it constructively or vote with their wallet and move on.

I've been on Brandywine since the very beginning and have a ton of alts and investment there ... and I really enjoy the crowds and experience on the legendary servers and have, honestly, worked through content I have often bypassed. I log onto Brandwine to pay mine housing rent but spend my play time on Anor.

I'm not sure there is a 'right' answer or perspective ... but I am really enjoying the legendary servers. When MoM was 1st released I found it to be like Moria from the books ... confusing, difficult, scary and claustrophobic. Will it be that way now ... no, because I know it so well. Will I enjoy it? You bet! Play on!

nah moria will be easy transition, probably backed up a few days after this fiasco but it will be smooth