No Special Time-Gated Legendary Challenger Title as Promised @SSG

Dear SSG+Fellow players.

Last night our 10man group pugged BG T2C, it took 3 hours 36mins, we did it for two reasons. First Ages and Legendary Challenger titles that SSG had added into the game as stated here

• "Special time-gated Legendary Challenger Titles are available on the Legendary worlds for In Their Absence and Dol Guldur. This title will be available until the next level cap increase on the Legendary worlds."

Yet after 5 hours and finally completing the slog fest of morale pools. We got 0 First Age symbols despite wiki saying a 100% drop rate in challenger chests. We also got no Special Challenger title as stated in the patch notes that we should have gotten.
Meaning this line of patch notes was not added into the game.
Can you please bestow these ''special legendary challenger titles" onto those who have already completed BG t2c prior to this lack of title being brought to your attention?
theres no way i plan to run Barad Guldur for that length of time again for a title I should already possess.


Also can you please confirm that first ages drop on the legendary server, because im starting to suspect they simply do not drop.

1st age never dropped from bg tho

I bet they didnt check the drop before releasing it lol

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Originally Posted by icefriend

1st age never dropped from bg tho

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what, not even the symbol? i played casual @65, started raiding @85

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Originally Posted by icefriend

1st age never dropped from bg tho

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They did, at least after scaling.

I cant fully remember if they did 9-10years ago, despite Barad Guldur being on of my most on-level ran raids on t2c.

First age symbols are just the secondary subject of this topic though really.

Im mainly curious about the missing titles that were stated to be in the game for the legendary servers as stated in the patch notes.

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Originally Posted by Eowene

They did, at least after scaling.

I cant fully remember if they did 9-10years ago, despite Barad Guldur being on of my most on-level ran raids on t2c.

First age symbols are just the secondary subject of this topic though really.

Im mainly curious about the missing titles that were stated to be in the game for the legendary servers as stated in the patch notes.

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oh no does this mean they had to readd the og symbol but didn't? now i'm worried there are no symbols in OD as well lol

With first agers we are referencing to the 'symbol of the elder king' in case you are confused :)

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Originally Posted by Eowene

We also got no Special Challenger title as stated in the patch notes that we should have gotten.

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What if the reason you guys didn't get it was because a certain group already did it before release? I could see the title being activated for whoever had the deeds completed first, and with some already having those deeds completed it might just register them as "first".

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Originally Posted by Dorothir

What if the reason you guys didn't get it was because a certain group already did it before release? I could see the title being activated for whoever had the deeds completed first, and with some already having those deeds completed it might just register them as "first".

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Wouldnt suprise me at all

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Originally Posted by Dorothir

What if the reason you guys didn't get it was because a certain group already did it before release? I could see the title being activated for whoever had the deeds completed first, and with some already having those deeds completed it might just register them as "first".

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Never played on Legendary servers but guess, by the release note quoted, that the title is for all who complete in the timeframe between this and next level increase. There is is not a special title for server first. Just like ordinary servers.. Everyone who complete raid inside the timeframe, gets the title.

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Originally Posted by Dorothir

What if the reason you guys didn't get it was because a certain group already did it before release? I could see the title being activated for whoever had the deeds completed first, and with some already having those deeds completed it might just register them as "first".

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The title is available until level 75 cap arrives according to the notes m8. another-words all get it, and it stops kin drama

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Originally Posted by Eowene

The title is available until level 75 cap arrives according to the notes m8. another-words all get it, and it stops kin drama

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Ah, I had no idea they'd changed it. Sounds like a better option, really. At least there's not so much of a rush to get there first.

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Originally Posted by Dorothir

Ah, I had no idea they'd changed it. Sounds like a better option, really. At least there's not so much of a rush to get there first.

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Agreed m8. But a slap in the face when you do a long raid up at daft o'clock to finish it and then not get the title they said they added lol xD

In order to receive the time-gated Legendary Challenger Title, you need to complete the entire cluster at T2C difficulty. This does not need to be done in a single play session; you just have to complete each of the Challenge quests in the cluster. We will be looking into your drop rate reports.

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

We will be looking into your drop rate reports.

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Could you also check with the devs if there is any chance we will see the original loot in T1/T2C instances? =)

Also, what's up with BG set? Is it possible that you can make the gear drop inside the raid, or make the coins drop inside so we can barter it from the class trainer in Mirkwood?

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Originally Posted by Cordovan

In order to receive the time-gated Legendary Challenger Title, you need to complete the entire cluster at T2C difficulty. This does not need to be done in a single play session; you just have to complete each of the Challenge quests in the cluster. We will be looking into your drop rate reports.

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We have kinnies who have completed ''all siege of mirkwood cluster'' but not as of yet done In their Absence cluster. is it one title for both clusters?
if so, you are aware that you have buffed the health too high and have made the challenge modes on both Wound T2C & Disease T2C virtually impossible.

There is a huge problem at the moment with the way you have constructed this patch.

The damage of mobs is utterly perfect, its fantastic, its challenging. But you have overbuffed the health forgetting about the fact their is challenge timers and internal enrage mechanics on bosses.
You have a wound wing where you have 3 lanes, 4 people per lane having to clear down it (FAST) or get crushed by the mumaks, and then 7mins to clear the challenge.
You have a disease wing where you have 2 trees and a maximum of 12lurkers to be killed on a timer where if the next wave spawns, u fail.

These require all 12 players to have first ages, which means you ''HAVE'' to run OD t2 / t2c to get first ages on all 12 people. No matter what you do, you aint doing wound wing, coz you cant clear the lanes.
You need first ages to do tier 2, but cant do t2 without first ages. or if you can you fail half the challenge modes due to timers or internal enrage counters.

Some more detailed information on the title would be great.
A Revision on mob health is also advised (Damage of mobs = perfect, dont touch that. but please revise the fact that you have broken some mechanics)

I really don't like having to post this, since im the one who rants about content being too easy. im not saying to nerf nerf it. but a revision into a morale buff that exceeds or breaks t2c mechanics or even timed mechanics on runs that = insta death is a bit much and a bit of an oversight.

So anotherwords, if this title requires both SoM cluster & ITA Cluster to complete then it is impossible due to health reasons.

But please confirm that this deed requires both clusters, as if it is 1 title for SoM cluster, 1 title for ITA Cluster then we have completed the SoM cluster and have no title. (the patch notes made it appear as though it was 2 titles)

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Originally Posted by Eowene

We have kinnies who have completed ''all siege of mirkwood cluster'' but not as of yet done In their Absence cluster. is it one title for both clusters?
if so, you are aware that you have buffed the health too high and have made the challenge modes on both Wound T2C & Disease T2C virtually impossible.

There is a huge problem at the moment with the way you have constructed this patch.

The damage of mobs is utterly perfect, its fantastic, its challenging. But you have overbuffed the health forgetting about the fact their is challenge timers and internal enrage mechanics on bosses.
You have a wound wing where you have 3 lanes, 4 people per lane having to clear down it (FAST) or get crushed by the mumaks, and then 7mins to clear the challenge.
You have a disease wing where you have 2 trees and a maximum of 12lurkers to be killed on a timer where if the next wave spawns, u fail.

These require all 12 players to have first ages, which means you ''HAVE'' to run OD t2 / t2c to get first ages on all 12 people. No matter what you do, you aint doing wound wing, coz you cant clear the lanes.
You need first ages to do tier 2, but cant do t2 without first ages. or if you can you fail half the challenge modes due to timers or internal enrage counters.

Some more detailed information on the title would be great.
A Revision on mob health is also advised (Damage of mobs = perfect, dont touch that. but please revise the fact that you have broken some mechanics)

I really don't like having to post this, since im the one who rants about content being too easy. im not saying to nerf nerf it. but a revision into a morale buff that exceeds or breaks t2c mechanics or even timed mechanics on runs that = insta death is a bit much and a bit of an oversight.

So anotherwords, if this title requires both SoM cluster & ITA Cluster to complete then it is impossible due to health reasons.

But please confirm that this deed requires both clusters, as if it is 1 title for SoM cluster, 1 title for ITA Cluster then we have completed the SoM cluster and have no title. (the patch notes made it appear as though it was 2 titles)

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The huge morale pools are indeed an issue. Just did NCF T2, it was even worse than Ered Mithrin T3 trash lol.

As you said, outgoing damage from mobs are good, just if they could lower the morale pools of the trash/bosses it would be great.

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Originally Posted by Eowene

We have kinnies who have completed ''all siege of mirkwood cluster'' but not as of yet done In their Absence cluster. is it one title for both clusters?
if so, you are aware that you have buffed the health too high and have made the challenge modes on both Wound T2C & Disease T2C virtually impossible.

There is a huge problem at the moment with the way you have constructed this patch.

The damage of mobs is utterly perfect, its fantastic, its challenging. But you have overbuffed the health forgetting about the fact their is challenge timers and internal enrage mechanics on bosses.
You have a wound wing where you have 3 lanes, 4 people per lane having to clear down it (FAST) or get crushed by the mumaks, and then 7mins to clear the challenge.
You have a disease wing where you have 2 trees and a maximum of 12lurkers to be killed on a timer where if the next wave spawns, u fail.

These require all 12 players to have first ages, which means you ''HAVE'' to run OD t2 / t2c to get first ages on all 12 people. No matter what you do, you aint doing wound wing, coz you cant clear the lanes.
You need first ages to do tier 2, but cant do t2 without first ages. or if you can you fail half the challenge modes due to timers or internal enrage counters.

Some more detailed information on the title would be great.
A Revision on mob health is also advised (Damage of mobs = perfect, dont touch that. but please revise the fact that you have broken some mechanics)

I really don't like having to post this, since im the one who rants about content being too easy. im not saying to nerf nerf it. but a revision into a morale buff that exceeds or breaks t2c mechanics or even timed mechanics on runs that = insta death is a bit much and a bit of an oversight.

So anotherwords, if this title requires both SoM cluster & ITA Cluster to complete then it is impossible due to health reasons.

But please confirm that this deed requires both clusters, as if it is 1 title for SoM cluster, 1 title for ITA Cluster then we have completed the SoM cluster and have no title. (the patch notes made it appear as though it was 2 titles)

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^^ Exactly this, @Cordovan @Devs ^^ Fix the Morale Pools

Perhaps it may be known already, but the Mirkwood Barterable recipes for Crafting lvl 65 gear needs to be reworked - All of the crating output choices are exactly the same, there is no real variance on the stats.
Please fix this for the next upcoming patch.
Also the Enedwaith Barterable gear is lackluster in stat choices (and I'd argue a couple of the set bonuses too), Please look into doing something with these stats too.

Lastly, for the love of all things good, give the players a reasonable means of obtaining First Age symbols outside of t2/t2c RNG.

Tanks, Trenghi and Rhost khig!

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Originally Posted by Skoch

Lastly, for the love of all things good, give the players a reasonable means of obtaining First Age symbols outside of t2/T2C

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I am definitely against this and would love FA to be limited to T2/T2C. First Age weapons are amongst the most “epic” rewards possible and should require the highest level of play.

Regarding health-pools - I believe that we are in a good spot. We just beat T2C Lost Temple in what was easily the most exciting Instance I have run on the LS and since my return to lotro about 2 years ago.

I personally would love FA symbols in T2/T2C so people can gear up through BG T2 and then attempt OD T2. If OD T2 remains unbeaten after 1 month we can still call for nerfs but at least we have a raid to get excited for and work towards!

Regardless of what happens - please make sure that the difficulty doesn’t drop. Again, best state of the LS to date and with incentive in instances another great chapter of this game!!

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Originally Posted by Onyi

I am definitely against this and would love FA to be limited to T2/T2C. First Age weapons are amongst the most “epic” rewards possible and should require the highest level of play.

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And yet, you get a First Age Blemished Symbol of the Elder King just for doing Landscape deeds in Central Gondor HAHA!
not to mention, epic battle reward boxes!!
At least Feature Instance boxes only drop them from the Level cap Challange mode setting!

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Originally Posted by Daniyel

And yet, you get a First Age Blemished Symbol of the Elder King just for doing Landscape deeds in Central Gondor HAHA!
not to mention, epic battle reward boxes!!
At least Feature Instance boxes only drop them from the Level cap Challange mode setting!

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Never been there and as it isn’t the current level cap on the LS it doesn’t really apply. During lv 65 First Age weapons were limited to high tier raid-completion.

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Originally Posted by Onyi

I am definitely against this and would love FA to be limited to T2/T2C. First Age weapons are amongst the most “epic” rewards possible and should require the highest level of play.


Regarding health-pools - I believe that we are in a good spot. We just beat T2C Lost Temple in what was easily the most exciting Instance I have run on the LS and since my return to lotro about 2 years ago.

I personally would love FA symbols in T2/T2C so people can gear up through BG T2 and then attempt OD T2. If OD T2 remains unbeaten after 1 month we can still call for nerfs but at least we have a raid to get excited for and work towards!

Regardless of what happens - please make sure that the difficulty doesn’t drop. Again, best state of the LS to date and with incentive in instances another great chapter of this game!!

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Originally Posted by Daniyel

And yet, you get a First Age Blemished Symbol of the Elder King just for doing Landscape deeds in Central Gondor HAHA!
not to mention, epic battle reward boxes!!
At least Feature Instance boxes only drop them from the Level cap Challange mode setting!

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Originally Posted by Onyi

Never been there and as it isn’t the current level cap on the LS it doesn’t really apply. During lv 65 First Age weapons were limited to high tier raid-completion.

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If its true certain content cannot be beaten to due to the substantial HP boost and limited time to successfully finish the challenge then we are not in the good spot. Increasing HP is the cheap difficulty and allowing monsters to one smite you with 20,000+ normal damage even in Tier I instances which is not a even point of complaining. It is stupidity and a complete ruination.

You live in the past, while I agree FA symbols should drop only from raids which ironically was the truth in 2011/2012 , Symbols dropped only from raids and I believe even Tier II version. I never complain unless I see the extreme situations and I would not even call it a true complaining rather a disappointment. My class is a Guardian a primary tank to be one shooted is simply unacceptable or to witness DPS stats on Teal armour which does not make sense at all. If they are forcing me to go Red which is my least favourite line, I will politely refuse.

The Artificial difficulty when you have boosted the foe with 500% additional Morale and dealing the lunatic damage to us even with maxed mitigations. There is a clear and notable difference between enjoyable challenge and attempting the impossible or battling bugs and ruined mechanics.

The Cheap difficulty has to drop. {it never will} Will be a good lucid dream.

As for not applying for Legendary server, many other things do not apply as well. Level 65 was a superbly challenging period with the introduction of Tier II instances and they become tougher and more complex requiring more team-work then ever. Lost Temple,Dungeons which will demand constant focus and patience to save them all, Ost Dunhoth and Barad Guldur ,even three man instances, for me personally the difficulty of 65 {Original } instances in 2011 was perfect,Classes we still far from uber stats as they are now and even at 75 with stats removal and finesse add on we were few levels above the standard.

65 while not favourite era for me, Angmar&Moria shall remain it so, The instances and overall difficulty was Top Notch. Barad Guldur and in their Absence cluster provided the greatest possible satisfaction and hardcore raiding challenge BACK then and they were extremely versatile as well without making it overly hard and certainly they were not easy as Moria. Angmar was somewhere in in the middle compared, back in Vanilla it was daunting too.

I would rank Barad Guldur&In their absence {65} as the toughest period followed by maybe Orthanc full Tier IIc at 75, Matter of debate if Ost-Dunhoth or Orthanc was tougher to beat at the original release though , Angmar at 50 and then Moria as the last one.Certainly 65 instance cluster as the king and queen of LOTRO instance difficulty generally speaking when taken everything into the account,even scaled instances took long to finish and one could have easily perished, scaled instances mind you when first start with the scaling back in 2011.Was about to speak of Isengard content but twas not so difficult to 65 since I have felt and noticed enormous lift of almost every class in these 10 levels and i felt inferior to 65 than 75. I will even not count anything post Rohan since our classes went more and more OP with essences,imbued weapons,Trait trees and so on. Nor I will bother what others have to say or defend their Throne,Abyss,Anvil and even Erebor instances,because post 75+ twas a significant leap forward and each update we were getting more powerful and it did not stop at all.

Level 50-65 was a reasonable ,with an exception of Orthanc at 75, You may simply forget about raids afterwards or better to say they cannot compare since our power was vastly increased, so was gear options ,versatile builds,more skills on disposal, store as help,trait trees, does not want to repeat himself.

Give it more than a week for people to decide if the content is too hard; most of the servers best kins haven't even been able to test the content yet....

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Originally Posted by Rimenuir

Give it more than a week for people to decide if the content is too hard; most of the servers best kins haven't even been able to test the content yet....

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I can say that something isnt right with the amount of morale mobs have in T2. There are 2 ways SSG can fix this :
1. Nerf the morale of monsters in T2.
2. Remove stat caps and make the gear more powerful.

I would prefer the second option, as there is currently no reason to get new gear due to stats getting capped so easy.
As an example, a level 45 can cap the 200% tact/physical mastery.

As of now I'm running t2 now with 60 gear , knowing that this is the max damage I can do is horrendous.

I think even though the morale is very high, all instances in Mirkwood and "In their Absence" are possible in T2CM (I already done them) except maybe some Challenges in Ost Dunhoth. But since I did not try OD T2 yet, I cant say for sure.
Why nerf something, if its not really tested yet. (Except someone already knows whats up, but I doubt that). The morale should stay where it is right now.

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Originally Posted by Awelina

I think even though the morale is very high, all instances in Mirkwood and "In their Absence" are possible in T2CM (I already done them) except maybe some Challenges in Ost Dunhoth. But since I did not try OD T2 yet, I cant say for sure.
Why nerf something, if its not really tested yet. (Except someone already knows whats up, but I doubt that). The morale should stay where it is right now.

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Isnt tested? Just try run a 3man in t2 with this high amount of morale. It's not just t2c raids but also 3mans and 6 mans. Insane amount of morale isnt more challenge, just more tedious. Running an instance with dpsers with capped mastery and it's still an extremely tedious process.

The reason I have always loved Lotro is because bosses and trash doesnt feel like morale sponges, that has changed in lotros later days.

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Originally Posted by LotroVidz

Isnt tested? Just try run a 3man in t2 with this high amount of morale. It's not just t2c raids but also 3mans and 6 mans. Insane amount of morale isnt more challenge, just more tedious. Running an instance with dpsers with capped mastery and it's still an extremely tedious process.

The reason I have always loved Lotro is because bosses and trash doesnt feel like morale sponges, that has changed in lotros later days.

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It was even slower in the past. It is a mental challenge. The longer your fight a foe the greater chance one can do a mistake. Incorrect. If you have formidable group with high DPS and players who know their classes extremely well it goes rapidly. Majority of players will never know the true horrors and tedious process. The word tedious is said so lightly these days.

In ages past it took hours and hours to clear trash, on much slower pace in comparison to the modern LOTRO due to lower DPS, attack speed and less skills on disposal.

There might be several challenges preventing even experienced and top geared {currently} raid to finish it , but generally speaking it is not tedious. There are few true warriors left in Middle-Earth and will rather bail out,complain and quit after several fail attempts.

Typical community. Early Moria was easy mode. Agreed, indeed, they bumped up morale, you complained. They now did increased damage and morale and it is tedious suddenly. Learn to get the most of your class in both defensive and offensive aspect and before you accuse ,bash, lash and unleash negativity, do everything in your power to succeed.

It took far longer to complete any 3, 6 man or 12 man raid in 2011, most of the souls have forgotten or have not played at the release.

Real warriors are tested in fire and under pressure when things do not get in their favour. Complete or least attempt to find a group of dedicated players willing to finish the possible content for now.

But naturally tis easy to create forum thread and demand eventual nerfs, they are needed only to the point they are completely shattering the challenge and preventing the completion.

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Originally Posted by Awelina

I think even though the morale is very high, all instances in Mirkwood and "In their Absence" are possible in T2CM (I already done them) except maybe some Challenges in Ost Dunhoth. But since I did not try OD T2 yet, I cant say for sure.
Why nerf something, if its not really tested yet. (Except someone already knows whats up, but I doubt that). The morale should stay where it is right now.

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Agreed

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Originally Posted by Vanyaerunanethiel

1. If you have formidable group with high DPS and players who know their classes extremely well it goes rapidly.
2. In ages past it took hours and hours to clear trash, on much slower pace in comparison to the modern LOTRO due to lower DPS, attack speed and less skills on disposal.
3. There might be several challenges preventing even experienced and top geared {currently} raid to finish it , but generally speaking it is not tedious.
4. Typical community. Early Moria was easy mode. Agreed, indeed, they bumped up morale, you complained.
5. It took far longer to complete any 3, 6 man or 12 man raid in 2011, most of the souls have forgotten or have not played at the release.
6. But naturally tis easy to create forum thread and demand eventual nerfs, they are needed only to the point they are completely shattering the challenge and preventing the completion

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You type so much in a single post I made it to a list so I can answer it properly xD

1. I have played with some old Lotro veterans, and I can confirm that it takes way longer to kill trash and bosses than it did in 2011.(You know there is video footage?)
2. It could certainly take hours and hours, but the reason for it to take "hours" back in the day wasn't because of huge morale pools, it was because people failed at tactics. Right now if you do everything right, it will still take a long time cus everything dies too slow.
3. As people have said, some ITA instances have timed challenges, even if you do everything right with decent DPS it can fail, again due to huge moral pools.
4. Don't categorize me into the player bunch who wanted Moria instances to be nerfed LOL. I think DN bosses could even have had more morale, and definitely the 6-mans, but we don't have to overkill it like in these 65 t2's.
5. I have tons of examples, but let's take Morgaraf & Cargaraf as an example. These bosses take closer to 30 minutes to kill on LS. Here is a vid from 2011, they kill it in 10mins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxEox_kAhzo
6. Just pointing out the issues, I'm actually not demanding it... Should we not express our concerns? :)


Another example from 2011:
Stoneheight T2 : First boss dies in 2,30 minutes : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN2CMtyaM00

Back then, a blue ring mob inside an instance died as fast as on landscape. Right now in T2, a blue-ring has 3x the amount of morale from T1. Just make it 1,5x or maybe 2x,, not 3 IMO.

Not very popular, but i think the raid is very nice.
We had to switch mates on the 3 mumak run ways od OD.
At least i had fun the first 2-3 wipes at the trees, by people that do not want unterstand to attack theire tree first after the rez.

There are many people that do not know the raid and we have to use mechanics again.
I think it is a good idea that (maybes except the expoiters) the common player does not solve at the first day the T2CM.

I want to have a good time in BG and OD and not a farmstatus after a week.
We did yesterday with a pug OD in T1 complete and i think with a good base you can pick many randoms again.
(OC they are willing to read the skills - in special the forcetaunts)

Atm i do not know how to wok on the Tac Mits.

1st Age Items.
Nice idea to give it in raids - as i was in the past too.
Think that is the highest loot we could get (next to setitems and special items as Baingrist or so).
But to be fair - do we need it?
if you manage T2cm without it, it would only do it the next time easier.

atm you cant solve T2CM on Bosses that have a timer on it, but let us see if we can do it on an other way as crying for nerf - that it looks like.

Question to you Raider:
What about Classguides?
Here the Legendary Servers miss a lot.
As i can keep as Captain in Red often the aggro against Hunters i think someones with good Hunter knowledge should give some tips and a nice rota as well to the mostplayed, but not good played class world wide. (As Hunter Noob i am very interested in a Red one).

The Raids on the Legendary server are not only for the Raider - all want here some fun and should be able to see it.
The Raider know it - or not? How long we stay and played that Raids - think up to the next update, or?

I agree with Vanya, Instances took very long and whilst reasons are different it is not comparable, still.

As opposed to 5h Fornost runs during SoA we cleared Lost Temple T2C yesterday in 2h 30min, including about 6 wipes. Once polished a good group can clear Temple in less than 1h, which is on the low end of what I’d deem acceptable for a 6man dungeon.

Regarding 3mans:

NFC T2C cleared in about 1h with 3 wipes and one member quitting/joining, easily pushed down to 30min or less if played clean. Same for Stoneheight T2C.

I am sorry, but none of these times are anything close to problematic.

Now regarding moral-buffs: I agree that morale-buffs alone are a “lazy way” of increasing difficulty. But that is not the case here, outgoing damage, resistance rating, all have been buffed. This is the most difficult content ever available on the LS and honestly, I’d judge it even more difficult than original 65, which is perfect because we had years upon years to get better as players.

Apart from OD T2C and potentially Sari Surma T2C everything has been cleared, in very appropriate times. Give the community more time to test and adapt before debating difficulty on under-researched content.

So I haven't yet tested the Instances myself, but this sounds like what we've been asking for for the last 8 months or so regarding difficulty. It's more exciting when there's unbeaten content out there. I was hoping that they wouldn't release Enedwaith and the ITA cluster at launch, but at least OD T2C hasn't been cleared yet. Kinda sad that the same people who've been asking for more challenging content, are also the ones asking for a nerf. Now obviously insane morale pools =/= challenging, but saying that it's impossible is probably an overstatement. Give it time. Remember when it took more than a month to get a first kill? Good times.

This could've been the best LS patch so far, if there were actual gear progression. Too late for that though I guess.

I think seals should be added back to the Isengard instance cluster. It would make sense for both the live servers and the LS.

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Originally Posted by LotroVidz

Could you also check with the devs if there is any chance we will see the original loot in T1/T2C instances? =)

Also, what's up with BG set? Is it possible that you can make the gear drop inside the raid, or make the coins drop inside so we can barter it from the class trainer in Mirkwood?

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We are looking into that aspect of the loot drops as well. BG and OD will both have level 65 first age symbol drops and a return of some more appropriate level 65 drops including barter tokens.

Also, to clear up any confusion, there are 2 separate legendary challenger deeds - one for each of the instance clusters.

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Originally Posted by Tybur

We are looking into that aspect of the loot drops as well. BG and OD will both have level 65 first age symbol drops and a return of some more appropriate level 65 drops including barter tokens.

Also, to clear up any confusion, there are 2 separate legendary challenger deeds - one for each of the instance clusters.

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That is great to hear Tybur! Ty for responding =)

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Originally Posted by Tybur

We are looking into that aspect of the loot drops as well. BG and OD will both have level 65 first age symbol drops and a return of some more appropriate level 65 drops including barter tokens.

Also, to clear up any confusion, there are 2 separate legendary challenger deeds - one for each of the instance clusters.

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We completed the Mirkwood cluster on T1 and got the title 'Nemesis of the Necromancer'.

We also completed the mirkwood cluster T2C and received lelgendary challenger of the necromancers stronghold' but only after logging in today.

Great to hear we are getting the old loot back :D


Editting: Since title is put in all of a sudden

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daenirion

This could've been the best LS patch so far, if there were actual gear progression. Too late for that though I guess.

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There is gear progression at 65, as long as you don't have good level-60 gear from Moria. Because if you have good level 60 gear from Moria, you already have capped stats(more or less) Mastery is easily overcapped with 60 gear.
There is literally no need to get 65 gear if you capped your stats in Moria, which was very easy to do. Its kind of sad hitting level 65 and still have capped mastery with level 60 gear.

Something must have gone wrong during development because this wasn't the case back in SOM days, you would not have capped damage ratings with old 60 gear. It takes away the progression of improving your character, especially if you are a DPS class.

Will 17k be mastery cap for Isengard as well, that is the question.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tybur

We are looking into that aspect of the loot drops as well. BG and OD will both have level 65 first age symbol drops and a return of some more appropriate level 65 drops including barter tokens.

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I currently have very little interest in the Legendary Server. But if you could bring back the original level 65 loot tables of the In Their Absence and Dol Guldur instances, then I'd most likely start actively playing on the LS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eruadarion

I currently have very little interest in the Legendary Server. But if you could bring back the original level 65 loot tables of the In Their Absence and Dol Guldur instances, then I'd most likely start actively playing on the LS.

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Hyped for Avorthalier on LS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tybur

We are looking into that aspect of the loot drops as well. BG and OD will both have level 65 first age symbol drops and a return of some more appropriate level 65 drops including barter tokens.

Also, to clear up any confusion, there are 2 separate legendary challenger deeds - one for each of the instance clusters.

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Absolutely amazing news! Let’s do this!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LotroVidz

There is gear progression at 65, as long as you don't have good level-60 gear from Moria. Because if you have good level 60 gear from Moria, you already have capped stats(more or less) Mastery is easily overcapped with 60 gear.
There is literally no need to get 65 gear if you capped your stats in Moria, which was very easy to do. Its kind of sad hitting level 65 and still have capped mastery with level 60 gear.

Something must have gone wrong during development because this wasn't the case back in SOM days, you would not have capped damage ratings with old 60 gear. It takes away the progression of improving your character, especially if you are a DPS class.

Will 17k be mastery cap for Isengard as well, that is the question.

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In Elder Days you had a Attributecap of 10x your level.
I used a lot of Moriastuff in Mirkwood.

The Increasement to Isengard was much more as 10 Level.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eruadarion

I currently have very little interest in the Legendary Server. But if you could bring back the original level 65 loot tables of the In Their Absence and Dol Guldur instances, then I'd most likely start actively playing on the LS.

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No a bad idea, someone has to lead the troll raid at 85 :-)

I really hate to complain but was the entire server farming t1 durchest really the best way to go about fixing things

Quote:

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Originally Posted by icefriend

I really hate to complain but was the entire server farming t1 durchest really the best way to go about fixing things

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no, but too late to change it now so RIP

Who took the horrible decision to add 10locks per chest in BG/OD? Wasn't it obvious that people would just farm the first boss in SG 10 times a day to get the FA? Should have been 1lock per chest in the t1 raids to encourage people to complete the raids. Now people just farm the first boss -.-! This should be common knowledge by now SSG! Why do you keep making these mistakes?

For the next legendary release, if there are any players left, please ask the community what they want before you implement things like this.

Yea I was wrong about "Classic loot" and FA symbols ,thank the Vala finally I can be wrong as well. It took me few years to fail. You added the FA in in-proper way.

A great mistake once more. The Barad Guldur has no locks at all{if you wish to count locks 10 times of Durchest repetition} and it is the farm fest every day to obtain first age symbols which are incredibly easy to obtain. I had 2 within 2 days and We had 5 ,yes 5 FA symbols from Lieutenant. Its all about the loot. Few players care to finish the entire raid/challenge even read the lore and Festivals are the great distraction as well. Thrang pocket item is nothing but lottery. I am against the RNG and pure luck needed to obtain certain items. I cannot wait for summer festival to end. The Morale increase is enormous and scaling is completely messed up. The gear for example I am still using 60 set for tanking. I am a tank class {Guardian} not the DPS. I do not wish the Mastery on Teal armour. The ability of mobs to avoid so many attacks does not make sense at all. I know several of players with huge finesse witnessing full evasion,blocks and parries. It never happened nor I am willing to spend 5-7 hours + in BG Tier II to finish it and we had the group 6 players bailed up due to RL. How many groups can? I can I am willing, but I will tell you openly for now, one or two kins might on Ithil and it is even doubtful. Half of night to clear Tier IIc. The sheer morale increase and some instant one shots are cheap. It is called the artificial difficulty, It is not a challenge nor thrill or joy. It is a lazy mechanics and will do nothing but to either frustrate or discourage a lot of players of moving forward.


The dedicated and hardcore team is so tiny, few will and did Tier IIc I m going to give you an example on Ithil. 2 groups for now only did Tier IIC Sammanth Gul. I was one of them. 90% are not even willing to try Tier II raid finding it too long to complete. And those who did said : Was hours of pain , maybe never again. It was mind numbing and tiresome,surely the challenge felt good, but it felt if we faced arifitical difficutly with foes having 300% additional morale and hitting high as Vala even on Tanks or to rely on dumb luck and hope boss wont spam non curable dot,bleed or fear you. There is a notable difference between a proper challenge and absurdity. Nobody else did Tier II raid not because they are incapable but do not have time or investment and are discouraged with enormous difference of Tier I ~ II and how certain mechanics work in particular challenges , not to mention huge amount of Trash in BG or Wound wing in OD which is simply distancing players away.

Let us look at Tier IIc Ost Dunhoth or Thrang Tier II. I do not want to say it is impossible. I am sure both servers will do it at some point,. Nobody can survive the Thrang Onslaught on Legendary and one will need nearly perfectly coordinated group with top DPS to complete entire raid with RNG and luck on your side as well. It is not the right approach. I love the way the raids are now compared to Moria, but again you have to understand the Morale,scaling and certain damage even from Tier I is simply unacceptable.


Standing Stone Games you are going from one extreme to another,Either it is too easy or nigh impossible or extremely tedious/draining. It was absolutely not at Original release. I have finished entire Ost-Dunhoth and Barad Guldur at level 65 and the instances were in the messed up state as they were right now. I always loved to test myself but I am not going to test myself against 40,000+ Damage attacks as an example or try to find a group or waste gigantic amount of energy of finishing raid with so few interested or spend hours and hours praying to Vala not be feared by boss or dying of 25,000+ attack on 70% mits with Tome of Defence on though its partially community to blame. I have noticed the lack of determination and rage quit in raids or players not willing to work as team,Nevertheless you should scale down the amount of morale in Tier II instances,fix our finesse and give the tanks the proper Tanking setup not only in raids but 3&6 man as well. But if we are honest sometimes is hard to blame players too if they quit if we judge everything accordingly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vanyaerunanethiel

Yea I was wrong about "Classic loot" and FA symbols ,thank the Vala finally I can be wrong as well. It took me few years to fail. You added the FA in in-proper way.

A great mistake once more. The Barad Guldur has no locks at all{if you wish to count locks 10 times of Durchest repetition} and it is the farm fest every day to obtain first age symbols which are incredibly easy to obtain. I had 2 within 2 days and We had 5 ,yes 5 FA symbols from Lieutenant. Its all about the loot. Few players care to finish the entire raid/challenge even read the lore and Festivals are the great distraction as well. Thrang pocket item is nothing but lottery. I am against the RNG and pure luck needed to obtain certain items. I cannot wait for summer festival to end. The Morale increase is enormous and scaling is completely messed up. The gear for example I am still using 60 set for tanking. I am a tank class {Guardian} not the DPS. I do not wish the Mastery on Teal armour. The ability of mobs to avoid so many attacks does not make sense at all. I know several of players with huge finesse witnessing full evasion,blocks and parries. It never happened nor I am willing to spend 5-7 hours + in BG Tier II to finish it and we had the group 6 players bailed up due to RL. How many groups can? I can I am willing, but I will tell you openly for now, one or two kins might on Ithil and it is even doubtful. Half of night to clear Tier IIc. The sheer morale increase and some instant one shots are cheap. It is called the artificial difficulty, It is not a challenge nor thrill or joy. It is a lazy mechanics and will do nothing but to either frustrate or discourage a lot of players of moving forward.


The dedicated and hardcore team is so tiny, few will and did Tier IIc I m going to give you an example on Ithil. 2 groups for now only did Tier IIC Sammanth Gul. I was one of them. 90% are not even willing to try Tier II raid finding it too long to complete. And those who did said : Was hours of pain , maybe never again. It was mind numbing and tiresome,surely the challenge felt good, but it felt if we faced arifitical difficutly with foes having 300% additional morale and hitting high as Vala even on Tanks or to rely on dumb luck and hope boss wont spam non curable dot,bleed or fear you. There is a notable difference between a proper challenge and absurdity. Nobody else did Tier II raid not because they are incapable but do not have time or investment and are discouraged with enormous difference of Tier I ~ II and how certain mechanics work in particular challenges , not to mention huge amount of Trash in BG or Wound wing in OD which is simply distancing players away.

Let us look at Tier IIc Ost Dunhoth or Thrang Tier II. I do not want to say it is impossible. I am sure both servers will do it at some point,. Nobody can survive the Thrang Onslaught on Legendary and one will need nearly perfectly coordinated group with top DPS to complete entire raid with RNG and luck on your side as well. It is not the right approach. I love the way the raids are now compared to Moria, but again you have to understand the Morale,scaling and certain damage even from Tier I is simply unacceptable.


Standing Stone Games you are going from one extreme to another,Either it is too easy or nigh impossible or extremely tedious/draining. It was absolutely not at Original release. I have finished entire Ost-Dunhoth and Barad Guldur at level 65 and the instances were in the messed up state as they were right now. I always loved to test myself but I am not going to test myself against 40,000+ Damage attacks as an example or try to find a group or waste gigantic amount of energy of finishing raid with so few interested or spend hours and hours praying to Vala not be feared by boss or dying of 25,000+ attack on 70% mits with Tome of Defence on though its partially community to blame. I have noticed the lack of determination and rage quit in raids or players not willing to work as team,Nevertheless you should scale down the amount of morale in Tier II instances,fix our finesse and give the tanks the proper Tanking setup not only in raids but 3&6 man as well. But if we are honest sometimes is hard to blame players too if they quit if we judge everything accordingly.

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That's how it goes when SSG refuse to let players test stuff before it gets released. They have no idea how to scale their own game -.-! Mirkwood could have been the best expansion release on LS if it was done right.

I find it funny that they didn't re-introduce proper locks in BG/OD... raids that take like 6hours to complete, without locks lol!

Let's hope SSG abandon the idea with more than two tiers of difficulty for instances in the future.. THEY CANT handle it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LotroVidz

That's how it goes when SSG refuse to let players test stuff before it gets released. They have no idea how to scale their own game -.-! Mirkwood could have been the best expansion release on LS if it was done right.

I find it funny that they didn't re-introduce proper locks in BG/OD... raids that take like 6hours to complete, without locks lol!

Let's hope SSG abandon the idea with more than two tiers of difficulty for instances in the future.. THEY CANT handle it.

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SSG should abandon the LS idea all together and stop wasting time and resources.

http://lux-hdro.de/hdro-live-anor.php

http://lux-hdro.de/hdro-live-ithil.php

Lowest numbers I've seen to date. It's time to send this horse to the glue factory and have SSG put their time back onto the old servers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sapienze

SSG should abandon the LS idea all together and stop wasting time and resources.

http://lux-hdro.de/hdro-live-anor.php

http://lux-hdro.de/hdro-live-ithil.php

Lowest numbers I've seen to date. It's time to send this horse to the glue factory and have SSG put their time back onto the old servers.

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Mirkwood had no announcement outside of the livestream nor a trailer on Youtube like Moria did. Players got an official announcement (the livestream "maybe next week" does not count) 24-hours prior to its launch. For anyone who jumped ship to play something in the meanwhile, they'd have no clue Mirkwood is even out yet.

A silent game is a dead game. Nuff said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LotroVidz

That's how it goes when SSG refuse to let players test stuff before it gets released. They have no idea how to scale their own game -.-! Mirkwood could have been the best expansion release on LS if it was done right.

I find it funny that they didn't re-introduce proper locks in BG/OD... raids that take like 6hours to complete, without locks lol!

Let's hope SSG abandon the idea with more than two tiers of difficulty for instances in the future.. THEY CANT handle it.

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level 65 raids shouldn't take 6 hours. If it does, you're doing something wrong.

Ost Dunhoth doesn't need locks because it's split into wings, Barad Guldur isn't a particularly long raid, especially as there's no longer a need to physically reach the keep outside.

There's chest locks, not raid locks. Scaling isn't amazing but it's better than how Moria was handled. It honestly sounds like you haven't even logged onto Anor and just pulling observations out of thin-air.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hallandil

level 65 raids shouldn't take 6 hours. If it does, you're doing something wrong.

Ost Dunhoth doesn't need locks because it's split into wings, Barad Guldur isn't a particularly long raid, especially as there's no longer a need to physically reach the keep outside.

There's chest locks, not raid locks. Scaling isn't amazing but it's better than how Moria was handled. It honestly sounds like you haven't even logged onto Anor and just pulling observations out of thin-air.

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Its taken most groups 4 hours to run BG t2c. Now, my kin hasnt run it in a while as we're focusing on OD currently, but t2c BG takes some time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hallandil

level 65 raids shouldn't take 6 hours. If it does, you're doing something wrong.

Ost Dunhoth doesn't need locks because it's split into wings, Barad Guldur isn't a particularly long raid, especially as there's no longer a need to physically reach the keep outside.

There's chest locks, not raid locks. Scaling isn't amazing but it's better than how Moria was handled. It honestly sounds like you haven't even logged onto Anor and just pulling observations out of thin-air.

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From what perspective are you speaking? I know that a T2 BG doesn't take 6 hours if you do things right, and have a group of experienced people. But let's say someone had to leave, or players just fail.. Shouldn't they be able to pick it up at a later time?

Same with Anvil T2, you can complete it fast, if things go smoothly, sometimes it doesn't. And in those cases, players should be able to pick up where they left, or people won't just dedicate their time doing it at all.

Regarding the loot, I don't agree.. none of the instances at t2c offer anything good lol. Most Moria gear is better. I have done SG/LT/STH in T2C and there is generally no good loot in there.

In Moria, at least for my Mini, BIS items were spread out through a lot of instances, and DN had some really cool loot. Yeah, I know OD is split up in three wings, and I know there is chest locks. At least, I think BG should have old style locks or same as in Anvil, and have better loot to make it worth running at T2.


I'm not pulling anything out of thin air, but please enlighten me, where are the good loot in the T2C/T1 instances?

As a raid leader on Anor I'd like to weigh in a bit on the difficulty of level 65 t2 content, though it may be a bit late. Personally, I would say the content is 99% perfect. As of right now, my kinship, Mirage, has successfully downed Ivar t2c. The fight was so much more intense than it has been in years. Without going into details(as to spoil it for some people) our group comp was extremely far from the current "meta". I love that the content is forcing people to come up with much more creative strategies and putting much more thought into their gear in order to beat a fight. We have also done a bit of testing in other wings of OD. From what we found, Wound t2's "gauntlet" is doable with 2 dps per lane if they are ideally geared. The other dps and I were killing our mobs with plenty of time to spare in left lane, but were unfortunately held back by other, not as geared, lanes. Judging by how the gauntlet went for us it seems as though challenge is doable, but would require more attempts/testing to know for sure. I don't want to comment on Disease t2c yet, as we haven't had a proper go at it yet. Another group has told us it might be out of reach boss morale wise, but that is the only "complaint" I could give on how the content is. We are still going to give it a go ourselves, very soon. I think BG t2c is in a good spot. It's in a good middle ground of not super hard and not super long for the more "casual" raiders that might not have the time OD requires. Overall I think it was actually an amazing job of scaling and its by far the most fun I've had raiding in a long time!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vanyaerunanethiel

Yea I was wrong about "Classic loot" and FA symbols ,thank the Vala finally I can be wrong as well. It took me few years to fail. You added the FA in in-proper way.
[...]


The dedicated and hardcore team is so tiny, few will and did Tier IIc I m going to give you an example on Ithil. 2 groups for now only did Tier IIC Sammanth Gul. I was one of them. 90% are not even willing to try Tier II raid finding it too long to complete. And those who did said : Was hours of pain , maybe never again. It was mind numbing and tiresome,surely the challenge felt good, but it felt if we faced arifitical difficutly with foes having 300% additional morale and hitting high as Vala even on Tanks or to rely on dumb luck and hope boss wont spam non curable dot,bleed or fear you. There is a notable difference between a proper challenge and absurdity. Nobody else did Tier II raid not because they are incapable but do not have time or investment and are discouraged with enormous difference of Tier I ~ II and how certain mechanics work in particular challenges , not to mention huge amount of Trash in BG or Wound wing in OD which is simply distancing players away.

Let us look at Tier IIc Ost Dunhoth or Thrang Tier II. I do not want to say it is impossible. I am sure both servers will do it at some point,. Nobody can survive the Thrang Onslaught on Legendary and one will need nearly perfectly coordinated group with top DPS to complete entire raid with RNG and luck on your side as well. It is not the right approach. I love the way the raids are now compared to Moria, but again you have to understand the Morale,scaling and certain damage even from Tier I is simply unacceptable.

[...] players not willing to work as team,Nevertheless you should scale down the amount of morale in Tier II instances,fix our finesse and give the tanks the proper Tanking setup not only in raids but 3&6 man as well. But if we are honest sometimes is hard to blame players too if they quit if we judge everything accordingly.

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I dunno what you are talking about, SG t2c gets beaten daily on ithil, you may not realize because most of the ppl do not haste into chat/youtube to let everyone know that they accomplished smth that is easily accomplished.
I know you think very highly of yourself but you are only as average as 1/4 of Ithils population - just watch your vids if you need proof of that - the fact that 5/8 of ithils population are below average does not turn you into a good player.

The Scaling is very well done, most challenges are challenging as they should be, they should not scale down anything just because of the usual *i-never-realized-how-casual-i-truly-am* q.q from the likes of you, they did that very often in the past and it turned out that most dedicated ppl left because everything got ez.

/gratz @ mirage

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Heilfels

I dunno what you are talking about, SG t2c gets beaten daily on ithil, you may not realize because most of the ppl do not haste into chat/youtube to let everyone know that they accomplished smth that is easily accomplished.
I know you think very highly of yourself but you are only as average as 1/4 of Ithils population - just watch your vids if you need proof of that - the fact that 5/8 of ithils population are below average does not turn you into a good player.

The Scaling is very well done, most challenges are challenging as they should be, they should not scale down anything just because of the usual *i-never-realized-how-casual-i-truly-am* q.q from the likes of you, they did that very often in the past and it turned out that most dedicated ppl left because everything got ez.

/gratz @ mirage

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Difficulty by all means, but at least make sure you get rewarded for it. Does the challenge really matter if people are not running it? Either they have to fix the loot for T2C instances, or somewhat lower the difficulty. Right now I feel like most T2C content is wasted content, not everyone wants to spend hours in an instance getting the same loot as if they would run it on T1.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LotroVidz

Difficulty by all means, but at least make sure you get rewarded for it. Does the challenge really matter if people are not running it? Either they have to fix the loot for T2C instances, or somewhat lower the difficulty. Right now I feel like most T2C content is wasted content, not everyone wants to spend hours in an instance getting the same loot as if they would run it on T1.

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Its not just the loot that makes people run t2c instances. For some (and many) its running content that requires 6/12 people. While the loot is important (I am for special t2/c loot), running instances at t2c make me feel accomplished as a player, as they are much more challenging than what everyone else farms for hours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rimenuir

Its not just the loot that makes people run t2c instances. For some (and many) its running content that requires 6/12 people. While the loot is important (I am for special t2/c loot), running instances at t2c make me feel accomplished as a player, as they are much more challenging than what everyone else farms for hours.

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Why do people keep saying there is nothing we can do about it when time after time SSG has made changed to gear and drops?

If people have capped stats > Good raid setup > Know tactics > Excluding low DPS classes(like RK) and still fail the challenge/trash pulls. Isn't that the case of poor balance?

Take a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eUw...&index=37&t=0s and tell me the current OD T2C isn't over tuned lol.

Have fun with 20 people competing for the challenge.

I love T2C content, since im a T2/T3 raider on Evernight and has done most of the T2C content in the past. I have done most T2C on Anor as well, but with no good loot, it won't last for long.

I care about keeping the server alive, but by making T2C as tedious as possible without any reason to do it more than once will only drive people away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LotroVidz

Why do people keep saying there is nothing we can do about it when time after time SSG has made changed to gear and drops?


I care about keeping the server alive, but by making T2C as tedious as possible without any reason to do it more than once will only drive people away.

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Ok? It's happened once. People will be playing on these servers no matter what. And thanks, I will enjoy competing for t2c clear.

The Enedwaith cluster's title is "Legendary Challenger of the Gaunt-lords"