Beorn nerf

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Additionally, we have run a command on Bombadil that increases the cooldown of the Beorning healing skills Hearten and Compsure from 14 seconds to 20 seconds. Additionally, the number of healing pulses on each skill has been reduced from eight to four. This change will happen on the other live game worlds as well in a future patch.

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It seems to me that the SSG does not understand how much 130th level heal beorning is loosing in current situation. His basic heal is already lower them both the minstrel and the rk, if we look at t5 instances. Recent faith nerf reduces his crits by half. And now you are cutting the tiny HOT he has and one of his only 5 heals? Thank you so much!
https://s50.radikal.ru/i128/0809/1c/efbdce59b91b.jpg

It's a sorry day (c)
F

Yeah that's a brute force way to fix an issue with lower level ranges if pve. Machete instead of a scalpel.

I'd rather see Vastin do the old "Improved XYZ" skill trick, making Hearten 4 pulse & 20s cd, and creating Improved Hearten as what Hearten currently is and available at lvl 76ish.

This is a load of #### if I ever saw one. SSG.. wow way to #### on a class that you have to pay extra to play.

If they *really* feel it is overpowered, I can understand the cooldown nerf, but to also reduce the number of pulses by HALF is utterly ridiculous. After all those YEARS and YEARS of Beorning's being so terrible, they finally get a decent buff to bring them up to other classes capabilities, only to have this kind of #### ?

So live servers are now impacted by pvp. I was afraid this would happen. Changes to classes due to pvp need to stay on Bombadil.

also a nerf to wrath gen because of cd for those that dont have t2 set, so harder to heal and debuff effectively.

Just because something is overpowered at low levels there's no reason to nerf it for endgame. Especially not for some temporary PvP (deeding) server where kills dont even matter. PLEASE WAKE UP SSG

Also im kinda missing the feedback collecting from bullroarer before making changes, you just push stuff to live without listening to players that know endgame!

Personally, I'd like to see every single Beorning rounded up (in chains) loaded onto a rocket and shot into the heart of the Sun. They just don't belong in Lord of the Rings, they are not needed or wanted.

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Originally Posted by SavileRow

They just don't belong in Lord of the Rings, they are not needed or wanted.

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Says someone with zero knowledge of the LOTRO universe, someone utterly depressed with the class(es) they have chosen to play and someone completely jealous that Beornings finally dont stink anymore.

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Originally Posted by SavileRow

Personally, I'd like to see every single Beorning rounded up (in chains) loaded onto a rocket and shot into the heart of the Sun. They just don't belong in Lord of the Rings, they are not needed or wanted.

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Dang what happened to you? On behalf of all Beornings I’m sorry for whatever it was.

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Additionally, we have run a command on Bombadil that increases the cooldown of the Beorning healing skills Hearten and Compsure from 14 seconds to 20 seconds. Additionally, the number of healing pulses on each skill has been reduced from eight to four. This change will happen on the other live game worlds as well in a future patch.

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(Red Tree DPS perspective)

Don't do it. I'm beginning to think that no one on that end understands what the word "priorities" means. The DPS version of a Beorning doesn't compete with any of the other dps classes, so your focus is to cut the self-heal (composure) more than in half. Instead of a below average dps character...you now have generated a below average dps character with lower survivability. Perhaps, when someone takes a few minutes to reference the word "priorities" they should, also, take a few moments to look up the word "balancing."

Back when Mordor was the end game you improved the dps on a Beorning moderately. It was a step in the right direction. However, since that time you have increased the dps on just about every other class, and as a result, the dps of a Beorning is right back where it was before. It is the same red-headed step child scenario.

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Originally Posted by Maedol

It seems to me that the SSG does not understand how much 130th level heal beorning is loosing in current situation. His basic heal is already lower them both the minstrel and the rk, if we look at t5 instances. Recent faith nerf reduces his crits by half. And now you are cutting the tiny HOT he has and one of his only 5 heals? Thank you so much!
https://s50.radikal.ru/i128/0809/1c/efbdce59b91b.jpg

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Are you really going to destroy the healing output of endgame beornings because it's overpowered at low levels on some unpopular experimental server you set up as a beta test for a terrible idea that probably won't even make it to the main game?

I hope more people give feedback on this. It is a really terrible idea. The impact itself will be minimal for actual healing, but the wrath consumption is going to be mad frustrating for beorings without Remm raid set. This adjustment was made for healing impact, but seems there is a level of not realizing how critical this to wrath building. Hopefully they'll consider adding more wrath building to the skill and sticking to their intention of nerfing just the heal.

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Originally Posted by lord1021

I hope more people give feedback on this. It is a really terrible idea. The impact itself will be minimal for actual healing, but the wrath consumption is going to be mad frustrating for beorings without Remm raid set. This adjustment was made for healing impact, but seems there is a level of not realizing how critical this to wrath building. Hopefully they'll consider adding more wrath building to the skill and sticking to their intention of nerfing just the heal.

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They did the same thing with the recent burg nerf. Instead of nerfing the damage resistance provoke gives, they increased its cooldown by 2 seconds, which had the added effect of reducing dps and making the dps rotation clunkier. So little thought put into it.

As already said the most problem for healing beo will be not in healing drop, but in wrath generation drop - at least same as compare gameplay once you get Remmo healing set with gameplay without that set when in complicated fights you were running out of wrath if you were doing your job well on both area of responsibility - heals and debuff/buff

Most disappointing issue is that no one can see any real reason for such changes - same raid nerfs while the raid is not yet farmable and not available for all classes on higher tiers

If these changes happen tanking build with composure will be ruined also and maybe even beo as tank will disappear at all - no any great savers already and now no even low self heals, problems with wrath and because of this need of spending too much time in man form that for tanking beo is unacceptable

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Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth

also a nerf to wrath gen because of cd for those that dont have t2 set, so harder to heal and debuff effectively.

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There are more than enough wrath building skills, use slash more often, for it also gives us, beornings, a healing buff.

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Originally Posted by Riddim The Legend

There are more than enough wrath building skills, use slash more often, for it also gives us, beornings, a healing buff.

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The problem isn't getting enough wrath for heals, it's for the support skills like bees rending blow and vicious claws to increase dps, as well as levelling roar and grisly cry for cc support while having enough in a bear / man rotation for heals without running out.

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Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth

The problem isn't getting enough wrath for heals, it's for the support skills like bees rending blow and vicious claws to increase dps, as well as levelling roar and grisly cry for cc support while having enough in a bear / man rotation for heals without running out.

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https://i.imgur.com/7DLDCW4.png

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Originally Posted by Riddim The Legend

https://i.imgur.com/7DLDCW4.png

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Just depends on situation. that works well for 1/6 of the time.

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Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth

Just depends on situation. that works well for 1/6 of the time.

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It really isn't that hard to regain wrath, at the current level cap we also have remmo set bonus that gives +10 wrath from every transformation, that makes things a lot easier.

While we are on this subject, I cannot find a statement from SSG that the wrath return from hearten/composure will be nerfed? I believe they have only confirmed, that healing pulses will be reduced and CD of the skill increased, which could mean that we would keep the same 8 seconds of wrath return and have 12sec CD before we can use the skill again. Bears have already got Rush that works this way if you trait for the stun in red line, the speed bonus can last at least twice longer than the proc for stun that if I remember correctly has to be consumed within 12sec.

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Originally Posted by Riddim The Legend

It really isn't that hard to regain wrath, at the current level cap we also have remmo set bonus that gives +10 wrath from every transformation, that makes things a lot easier.

While we are on this subject, I cannot find a statement from SSG that the wrath return from hearten/composure will be nerfed? I believe they have only confirmed, that healing pulses will be reduced and CD of the skill increased, which could mean that we would keep the same 8 seconds of wrath return and have 12sec CD before we can use the skill again. Bears have already got Rush that works this way if you trait for the stun in red line, the speed bonus can last at least twice longer than the proc for stun that if I remember correctly has to be consumed within 12sec.

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if you have the t2 set i agree. my statement was regarding having enough wrath without the t2 set. if the cd is lengthened we have less wrath gen...

I started with a LM, and Turbine gutted the original design of the class as CC. I grabbed Warden, and Turbine gutted his ability to tank. I grabbed RK, and SSG gutted his damage output. I grabbed Beorning, and SSG gutted his heal. I want to know what class Developers are not going to destroy. I'm tired of trying to find a class that can just do its thing without being attacked by morons in developer land. I'm sick of SSG. Long live Middle Earth, but I wish the developer team would take a long and very extended break from screwing up classes.

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Originally Posted by Zavad

I started with a LM, and Turbine gutted the original design of the class as CC. I grabbed Warden, and Turbine gutted his ability to tank. I grabbed RK, and SSG gutted his damage output. I grabbed Beorning, and SSG gutted his heal. I want to know what class Developers are not going to destroy. I'm tired of trying to find a class that can just do its thing without being attacked by morons in developer land. I'm sick of SSG. Long live Middle Earth, but I wish the developer team would take a long and very extended break from screwing up classes.

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What they did to Beorning isn't THAT drastic, however, it was:
- A knee-jerk reaction to stuff happening on a temporary server
- A knee-jerk reaction to stuff happening that is so far out of lore (free peoples fighting free peoples)
- No thought towards how that skill is used to generate wrath (they could have made this change and kept it's level of wrath generation)

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Originally Posted by Irin19

What they did to Beorning isn't THAT drastic, however, it was:
- A knee-jerk reaction to stuff happening on a temporary server
- A knee-jerk reaction to stuff happening that is so far out of lore (free peoples fighting free peoples)
- No thought towards how that skill is used to generate wrath (they could have made this change and kept it's level of wrath generation)

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I'm simply tired of them hurting the characters that I invest time and capital into learning and developing. If I switch and make a commitment to even rolling a Captain, it won't be but awhile before they focus-fire on what I come to enjoy as its strengths. I just want to build a "vehicle" that will allow me to play through and enjoy Middle Earth. It shouldn't be such a big thing to expect. I wish the developers would leave well-enough alone for a bit.

*Edit: Two people I love dearly and whom I talked into playing LotRO have either quit totally or greatly curbed participation because of this type of thing. One was a very accomplished Guardian who was desired among the ranks of the raiders for whom they destroyed the class in favor of Warden. Then, he developed a burg which they also diminished, in large part by removing fellowship manouvers. He developed an RK -- they nerfed that, too.
The other individual was one of the best Wardens the game has had; they removed "Waden" status and removed its viability as a tank in raiding. He still plays multiple roles, but rarely, and now focuses on just playing Diablo. The developers are death-dealers. Period.

another hidden nerf i guess.....they took the red line sacrifice from row 2 to row 4 in the trait line for....reasons?

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Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth

another hidden nerf i guess.....they took the red line sacrifice from row 2 to row 4 in the trait line for....reasons?

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A fair nerf to healing bears, which will hardly impact them in the grand scheme. A meaningless change to Red Bears. And I'm not sure blue bears ever traited the red sacrifice.

Ew, yeah, I kinda liked red sacrifice while healing. Not a particularly expensive get since you're 5 in anyway for crit. Oh well, more points to pick up goodies in blue. Unless they rejiggered that line too.

Hahaha speaking of nerfs, how long to you think they are going to let today's changes to the Bee Swarm stay up? The DOTs on that skill right now are pretty respectable. Considering you can have it up in a fight indefinitely due to the skill time matching the cooldown...I can''t imagine they will let us keep it.

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Originally Posted by Casmond

Hahaha speaking of nerfs, how long to you think they are going to let today's changes to the Bee Swarm stay up? The DOTs on that skill right now are pretty respectable. Considering you can have it up in a fight indefinitely due to the skill time matching the cooldown...I can''t imagine they will let us keep it.

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It was an intentional change to buff blue/red bears (compensation for the hearten/composure nerf, presumably). Even with the increased damage a Red bear is hardly capably of 60% the damage of a real DPS class. Blue bears getting some bonus damage is nice, but not like we'll have a problem of tanking bears taking over the game when captains still exist. So I doubt they'll see any reason to nerf it.

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Originally Posted by laughatdo0m

It was an intentional change to buff blue/red bears (compensation for the hearten/composure nerf, presumably). Even with the increased damage a Red bear is hardly capably of 60% the damage of a real DPS class. Blue bears getting some bonus damage is nice, but not like we'll have a problem of tanking bears taking over the game when captains still exist. So I doubt they'll see any reason to nerf it.

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I admire your optimism. I seem to recall a nice dps increase back around Mordor...and since then, every other class was increased in dps to put Bear dps right back where it was before. 60k and 70k DOT's along with skill induction, attack duration, crit defense and movement debuffs on the bee swarm skill is too much like a present. It won't last long.

PS: I'm a cynic...albeit a realistic one.

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Originally Posted by Zavad

I started with a LM, and Turbine gutted the original design of the class as CC. I grabbed Warden, and Turbine gutted his ability to tank. I grabbed RK, and SSG gutted his damage output. I grabbed Beorning, and SSG gutted his heal. I want to know what class Developers are not going to destroy. I'm tired of trying to find a class that can just do its thing without being attacked by morons in developer land. I'm sick of SSG. Long live Middle Earth, but I wish the developer team would take a long and very extended break from screwing up classes.

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If you think about it a nerf on that scale from instacast on hearthen to full 20 second....just out of the blue.


It just reeks if developers not in sync what actually needs a proper tuning.


Back in the day in vanilla wow /tbc this would NEVER have happened

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Originally Posted by Casmond

I admire your optimism. I seem to recall a nice dps increase back around Mordor...and since then, every other class was increased in dps to put Bear dps right back where it was before. 60k and 70k DOT's along with skill induction, attack duration, crit defense and movement debuffs on the bee swarm skill is too much like a present. It won't last long.

PS: I'm a cynic...albeit a realistic one.

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Oof. If what I said was optimistic then that's not good at all. I was just trying to sugarcoat saying "Red bears still suck even with a 10k dps increase on bee damage and blue bears can't get used in content anyway because Captains are so poorly balanced that they overshadow all other tanks in just about every way."

Seems we overreacted, but the patch notes did neglect to mention that Hearten's base healing would be buffed in compensation for the increased cooldown and decreased # of pulses. Plus the LI cap increase helps. The endgame bear healer is still alive and well.

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Originally Posted by GeorgeBaggy

Seems we overreacted, but the patch notes did neglect to mention that Hearten's base healing would be buffed in compensation for the increased cooldown and decreased # of pulses. Plus the LI cap increase helps. The endgame bear healer is still alive and well.

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No one ever said (at least not that I have read) that end game healer bear will die cause they will nerf hearten. For sure, there will be some wrath issues, so beornings without Rem 4 healing set may have some problems. What everybody said though, is that the change was unnecessary, unjustified, wrongly based on low level pvp sever whinny feedback. And that is still the case.

Now on the other hand, the same cannot be said by the Flash of Light nerf for Guardians. Which is a shame.

Guys you are a bit wrong - nothing for beo was really buffed, all these dps and heals increase is going only because of huge impact of new x4 LI levels, so it effected all classes and nothing really special for us

This heal nerf has been pretty bad for me in blue line bear. I just came back from a couple months break. I solo in tank line and right now leveling up at 118, I was hit hard. I notice it a lot. Before I was doing alright. Nothing amazing. I could take on a few people easily. Now, just taking on 1 person its hard to keep my health up. I have level equivalent purple gear but, it doesn't help. I have to use all cooldowns if I pull more than 1 and hit relentless asap. Heaven forbid I take on a signature or better, I am struggling to stay alive and do damage at the same time. I feel A LOT squishier on top of the heal nerf. I still win but, its a challenge. In red, its even worse. I have to throw everything in and the kitchen sink to come out alive.

I picked beorning because I was told it was great for me and it wasn't OP or anything when I played it. It was just right but, now, the champion plays a lot better and is way more survivable in red than the bear in blue line, because I don't get as wrecked and I do way more damage. I just have this feeling of not wanting to play him now. It's that bad to me. Then again, I will never understand the mentality of nerfing things, instead of buffing.

It brings dissapointment beyond measure that such a severe nerf is SSG's conclusion.

My 0.02$ is that Beornings should have been banned from Bombadil since planning. Beorning as a class suffers greatly from being front-loaded, a competitive event with a focus on low-to-mid levels would inevitably lead to a Beorning nerf in some form.

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Originally Posted by Thentix

This heal nerf has been pretty bad for me in blue line bear. I just came back from a couple months break. I solo in tank line and right now leveling up at 118, I was hit hard. I notice it a lot. Before I was doing alright. Nothing amazing. I could take on a few people easily. Now, just taking on 1 person its hard to keep my health up. I have level equivalent purple gear but, it doesn't help. I have to use all cooldowns if I pull more than 1 and hit relentless asap. Heaven forbid I take on a signature or better, I am struggling to stay alive and do damage at the same time. I feel A LOT squishier on top of the heal nerf. I still win but, its a challenge. In red, its even worse. I have to throw everything in and the kitchen sink to come out alive.

I picked beorning because I was told it was great for me and it wasn't OP or anything when I played it. It was just right but, now, the champion plays a lot better and is way more survivable in red than the bear in blue line, because I don't get as wrecked and I do way more damage. I just have this feeling of not wanting to play him now. It's that bad to me. Then again, I will never understand the mentality of nerfing things, instead of buffing.

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If you check my date you will see i have been around since launch. And with that I can say that beorning is by far one the easiest classes to play. You either have some crazy gear on or you have absolutely zero idea of how the class is played. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume the latter, my advice would be to look through the beorning forums, wiki and take a moment to look at your tooltips in game and understand how the skills work and interact with each other. If at that point you are still having that much trouble but I'm sorry to say all hope is lost and you should uninstall

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Originally Posted by Knight19

... and you should uninstall

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Why, that is exactly what *I* did... and took my sub money and all the cash I spent on points and in the store each month with me as well. Too many decisions made by developers are made without any customer relationship considerations. They may be great developers, but business savvy they are not. They will only learn this when it hits their pockets.

Adios folks, off to give my money to WoW instead :)

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Originally Posted by Obliticus

Why, that is exactly what *I* did... and took my sub money and all the cash I spent on points and in the store each month with me as well. Too many decisions made by developers are made without any customer relationship considerations. They may be great developers, but business savvy they are not. They will only learn this when it hits their pockets.

Adios folks, off to give my money to WoW instead :)

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This.
Good luck and have fun!!!