Ok, I've been biting my tongue...

But, I just have to say something. First of all, I am fairly new to the game. I've been enjoying it very much. It's fun. Nice content, etc. Actually signed up for a year's worth on the special, so they have my money and my attention. Everything has been peachy keen. Customer service folks are nice. All was well in Middle Earth, until...

Winterhome and the Yule Festival.

My expectations of holiday celebrations in-game have been formed by my experiences w/ "another well-known game" where the holidays were always done to perfection, particularly Christmas, which also happens to be my favorite holiday. Lots of good cheer, fabulous and abundant decorations through out the world, many fun and profitable quests with good natured plots. All light and color and festival-ish everywhere.

With this image in my head, I was waiting w/ great anticipation to see what "Yule" would be like in Lotro. My first thought when I entered Winterhome was "omg.... it's so.... graaaay." My second thought was "this can't be all of it?". As I wandered around, read the quests, etc., I began to get more and more depressed. Far from my idea of a nice "Yule" celebration, this was like a.... I don't know what it was like. If the intention was for it to be Dickensian, it missed the mark for me. I stuck it out for about an hour, decided nothing of the rewards in the quests that I could see were worth my staying and getting even more depressed. It was the grimest, dreariest, most unwelcoming, unfestive, depressing "Yule" in-game holiday I've ever experience in nearly 10 years of gaming. Actually, I found it kind of appalling on one level, being that it deals with so much want and financial hardship at a time when a LOT of the players in the game are in FP and trying to spend a few hours having a distraction because they've lost their jobs themselves - in RL!! That shocked me.

Sorry, Turbine devs, but it was a complete and utter fail for me. JMHO. I'm sure there were folks who liked it just fine. To those who will jump in to say, "but, but, but,... they didn't have Christmas in Lotro", save it, please. We all know they probably didn't have a lot of things that are in-game, but it's good content and good marketing, and players like it, so they're in there. I think we all know these scenarios stretch the bounds at times. Holidays are big play days/events, particularly Halloween and Christmas. Players like them.

I would have been thrilled just to have a few beautiful Christmas Trees, some festive boughs and wreaths up around the towns and maybe some Christmas music in the taverns or something. SOMETHING that looked like Christmas. Didn't have to be anything huge or elaborate. Just some nice eye candy that said T'is the Season. It was so disappointing, I actually reopened my account on that "other game" and have been spending time there to get my Xmas fix. Oh, well... I guess there's always next year?

Again, sorry to the devs. I know they work hard, probably with limited time and resources, but please, guys, for next year, since I have a whole year's worth of play here, can we at least have some cheerful stuff and maybe a few xmas trees, wreaths, something?

Thanks.

You can get wreaths from gift boxes in the standard festival areas (Bree, Duillond, Thorin's, Party Tree in Hobbiton, The Shire). The christmas tree comes from a quest in Hobbiton also.

Winterhome has a 'A Christmas Carol' type theme.

Go to the regular festival areas and you will see more of what you are looking for. The letter you received which informed you of the festival(and gave you the quest for the 1 token) told you all the areas the festival was in.

Trees and wreaths are available in-game. To bad you did not like Yule Fest. I thought the theater was excellent and enjoyed the rest too. Have fun elsewhere.

I have played Many MMO's and usually Christmas is some "Santa" themed quest and some reindeer.

The quests in Bree, Dullion, Hobbiton and Thorin's hall where the typical fare. Some quests with some Christmas theme loot. The Winter's home was absolutely great, had a great theme, required some ethical choices. Like giving up you hard earn coin, participate in the gluttony while there are starving people around, stealing from npc's? Or stick to the theater and snowball fights.

I personally am hoping that the choice you make have impact of future actions. Sort of like the farming quest in Summer Festival. I personally have decided to make some of my characters go after tokens however they can and others give tokens out and avoid any quests that require stealling (kegs or coins) or kicking the poor out of town.

IMHO, The winters home has more feeling when it comes to quests that some games have in their entirety.

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I stuck it out for about an hour, decided nothing of the rewards in the quests that I could see were worth my staying and getting even more depressed.

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If you follow the quest line to its finish and choose to help the poor then there's a conclusion that is rewarding in the spirit of the season and more than just a "Yay, free prizes!" way.

You must understand that not only did they NOT have Christmas in Middle-earth - not everyone who plays LotRO celebrates Christmas - If they were to make specific references to Christmas - then wouldn't they also have to include references to Hanukkah, Ramadan, Ashura , Kwanzaa? Where do they draw the line? In this global world with so many cultures and beliefs - you have to walk a fine line and either include everyone - not included anyone - or make a generic reference that can cover everyone with out being specific - so happy holidays - and welcome to the Yule Festival.

But, since you so freely equate your disappointment with such slanderous intent towards a persons sexuality - I dare say that your are not to concerned about the rights, choices and beliefs of others...

And yeah - BTW - in 3.5 years of playing - I have never did more than take a brief look-see at all the festivals over the years - just not my cup of tea - but i dint let that stop me from enjoying the game...

D

Well, I liked it. I really don't know what else to say. It may not be for everyone though, for example I love the Ale Association quests but the Inn League doesn't capture my interest.

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Originally Posted by Dwarendele

You must understand that not only did they NOT have Christmas in Middle-earth - not everyone who plays LotRO celebrates Christmas - If they were to make specific references to Christmas - then wouldn't they also have to include references to Hanukkah, Ramadan, Ashura , Kwanzaa? Where do they draw the line? In this global world with so many cultures and beliefs - you have to walk a fine line and either include everyone - not included anyone - or make a generic reference that can cover everyone with out being specific - so happy holidays - and welcome to the Yule Festival.

But, since you so freely equate your disappointment with such slanderous intent towards a persons sexuality - I dare say that your are not to concerned about the rights, choices and beliefs of others...

And yeah - BTW - in 3.5 years of playing - I have never did more than take a brief look-see at all the festivals over the years - just not my cup of tea - but i dint let that stop me from enjoying the game...

D

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Christmas happens in the summer here and the beach is a popular destination on Boxing Day. Snow is something that happens in the movies. Even when dealing with countries that do celebrate Christmas, you can't cater for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Dwarendele

But, since you so freely equate your disappointment with such slanderous intent towards a persons sexuality - I dare say that your are not to concerned about the rights, choices and beliefs of others...D

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Just to be clear, the OP did say gray.

Just to be clear - adding an "R" does not take anything away from the OP's intent with that statement - and you know it - stop playing grames.

D

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Originally Posted by Garos

Just to be clear, the OP did say gray.

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wow um yeah lol

lil tooo much time on the net perhaps? :)

As for "grey" (or "gray") - maybe that's your settings? not sure, I mean I took your comment to mean 'drab' and such. It's quite bright on my screen. If I'm misreading, I apologize :)

I do like the Yuletide. Ingame it has that sense of fun and quirky Turbine humour, I've come to expect since AC. <shrugs> sorry if you didn't get into it, but you might give it a bit more of a chance to grow on you.

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Originally Posted by Dwarendele

Just to be clear - adding an "R" does not take anything away from the OP's intent with that statement - and you know it - stop playing grames.

D

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Uh, okay. I don't particularly care. I just wanted to point out that the OP was not a raging homophobe.

Our Kin got together for some fun events in Winterhome this weekend. Theatre sessions, snowball fights... was an absolute hoot.

Sorry you don't like it. Personally I think it's awesome. All that effort for 'just' a festival shows how committed the Dev team is to creating fun in the game and thinking outside the square.

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Originally Posted by Dwarendele

Just to be clear - adding an "R" does not take anything away from the OP's intent with that statement

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are you sure you're not projecting something that's not there?

Perhaps he said gray and ment gray, I mean throughout the entire post he's complaining winterholme isn't colourful eneugh.

Wow how does sexual orientation have anything at all to do with the OP's post? Are you seriously suggesting that's what he meant by gray? Adding the "R" to bypass it like gay is a taboo word or something? I could understand if there were indications in the rest of the post, but there are none whatsoever. Nothing he said is homophobic at all.

I swear some people just want to make conflict about race/gender/orientation etc., even when there was none to begin with.

And if I'm wrong.........well, I'll just go back to my hole. I doubt it though.

Maybe I'm wrong - and if so I apologize to the OP and any offended readers - I really wasnt trying to be controversial or whatever - I read the OP a few times and i can see how it could be interpreted both ways.

We all know that people use the word "gay" to express that something is less than or stupid - Honestly the first time i read it I didn't even see the "R" - all i read was the exaggerated "A's" I didn't make the connection that the setting was "gray" because it looks pretty bright and brilliant on my screen - its no different from other snowy realms in M-e

The "drab' and "dreariness" descriptions that were included in th OP was in reference to the morality connections - like people being out of work - etc - didn't get the feeling that those descriptions were in reference to the ambient nature of the setting.

I was making a connection to the OPs possible lack of understanding that other cultures might feel slighted if it was too themed to one particular custom and the use of a word like "its so...Graaaay" - which seems in this context not a stretch - it is at least an unfortunate use and placement of the term at best.

I see all the time people disguising words or using alternate spellings to get around "filters" and fly under the "radars" - perhaps I'm jaded

But as I said - Ive been wrong before - and i may be wrong now - and i do indeed apologizes if so.... I guess the only one who knows for sure is the OP - so accept my apology if im wrong - and if im right - ......... act in accordance with your personal beliefs.


D

Besides I spell "Grey" with an "E"

I personally like that we don't stick to a single culture in our festivals. It makes it much more interesting to more people. Not EVERYONE celebrates Christmas.

I also really like the multiple references to literature, as in a clear callback to 'A Christmas Carol' in Winterhome. It is part of what makes LOTRO both unique and interesting to me personally.

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Originally Posted by RoseIvy

My expectations of holiday celebrations in-game have been formed by my experiences w/ "another well-known game" where the holidays were always done to perfection, particularly Christmas

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I like Winterhome and the Yule Festival the way it is.

I don't want elves in skimpy Santa costumes in every street corner, candy buckets in every town, festive-festive-technicolor-lalala decorations everywhere.

I'll go play that other MMO when I want an abundance of anachronistic, glossy, absurd pop-culture "perfection."

I agree on one point, that being the decorations arnt that festive. I was expecting that a town putting everything in to the celebration would be much more colorful. However, I do appreciate what turbine was trying to do with the whole christmas carol theme.

Ah well, live and learn, I dont really do much with the festivals except enough to get my mounts anyways ;)

Also, please stop with the "everyone doesnt celebrate christmas" Thats why its called Yule in the first place, and even so, these are the US servers where christmas is predominantly celebrated. If I was playing on a chinese server (yes I know they dont have any yet), I would be expecting the celebration to come in late January-early February when chinese new year is with decorations that more reflect that celebration, though it would still be called "yule" regardless of the fact that not everyone celebrates chinese new year >.> yeah. political correctness annoys me :)

I too was very depressed by the largely achromatic artwork and generally unfestive attitudes in Frostbluff while testing on Bullroarer. I felt that even the final choice of quests didn't offer a suitable sense of catharsis given the harsh realities of the townsfolk.

However, players have plenty of opportunities to give generously and give often to the downtrodden residents of Winter-home. Perhaps this continued altruistic behavior will be rewarded with an additional modest token of appreciation not yet discovered by players in the game.

>>> Spoiler <<<

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Originally Posted by tkdyoo

I agree on one point, that being the decorations arnt that festive. I was expecting that a town putting everything in to the celebration would be much more colorful. However, I do appreciate what turbine was trying to do with the whole christmas carol theme.

Ah well, live and learn, I dont really do much with the festivals except enough to get my mounts anyways ;)

Also, please stop with the "everyone doesnt celebrate christmas" Thats why its called Yule in the first place, and even so, these are the US servers where christmas is predominantly celebrated. If I was playing on a chinese server (yes I know they dont have any yet), I would be expecting the celebration to come in late January-early February when chinese new year is with decorations that more reflect that celebration, though it would still be called "yule" regardless of the fact that not everyone celebrates chinese new year >.> yeah. political correctness annoys me :)

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It's not being politically correct to say everyone doesn't celebrate Christmas. It's a fact. I do celebrate Christmas personally. I do not however think that only the symbols of christmas belong in a game based on LOTRO. The shared (in many places) candles, holly, yew leaves, mistletoe, etc.) bring the holidays together for all of us.

I dress one of my hobbits in green/red Santa's elf gear every year. However that does not mean that I expect Christmas and only Christmas in my Yule celebration, and it puzzles me why that would be considered politically correct.

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Originally Posted by Dwarendele

You must understand that not only did they NOT have Christmas in Middle-earth - not everyone who plays LotRO celebrates Christmas - If they were to make specific references to Christmas - then wouldn't they also have to include references to Hanukkah, Ramadan, Ashura , Kwanzaa? Where do they draw the line? In this global world with so many cultures and beliefs - you have to walk a fine line and either include everyone - not included anyone - or make a generic reference that can cover everyone with out being specific - so happy holidays - and welcome to the Yule Festival.

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You're talking off the top of your head, and it shows. Nearly every MMO has some sort of holiday event in the winter season. It may not be called "Christmas" but for all intents and purposes, it is. To bring up the "where do they draw the line" argument is completely beyond the pale. EVERYONE else does it: WOW, AO, DDO, CO, CoX, Runescape, and if I remember correctly, UO. They are not in any way Chanukkah or Kwanzaa celebrations, they are by the persistence of Santa hats and candy canes Christmas celebrations (Ramadan is in August, it's not a winter event, and Ashura is a day of mourning, not a festival). That's off the top of MY head. Why shouldn't it be expected here?

The only legitimate argument against is the one the OP suggested: they didn't have Christmas in Middle-earth. But we're gonna have one anyway.

As for your comment about sexuality, try reading the words on the screen instead of the ones you make up in your head.

As for the respondents who said, "They do have trees and wreathes," the OP was talking about decorations in-world. If you don't own a house, the stuff you're talking about is useless and only takes up more valuable vault space. The OP meant decorations in the cities. I thought the original message was very clear.

I can relate to where the OP is coming from. When I first started exploring Winter-home all I could think was "Jeez, the mayor is a jerk. Why would I want to support him in anyway whatsoever?"

Once I figured out I could donate to the poor and mess with the mayor's plans, I got much more into it. I went all the way through and got the Blameless title. This isn't the best festival I've been to, but it was ok. The theater more than made up for the rest of it, and the normal activities are still running in Hobbiton, Bree, etc so I guess I'm over-all happy with it.

Grey (also spelled gray in the United States, see spelling differences) describes the colors ranging from black to white. These, including white and black, are known as achromatic colors or neutral colors. These "new" neutrals have low colorfulness and chroma.

Thank you, Wikipedia. Now can we move on from these so-called "hidden messages"? I mean, really. Achromatic is a word that I use in my color theory class paper, and grey/gray is one used to describe the color in informal conversation. As the OP did. Yeesh.

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Originally Posted by tkdyoo

Also, please stop with the "everyone doesnt celebrate christmas" Thats why its called Yule in the first place, and even so, these are the US servers where christmas is predominantly celebrated. If I was playing on a chinese server (yes I know they dont have any yet), I would be expecting the celebration to come in late January-early February when chinese new year is with decorations that more reflect that celebration, though it would still be called "yule" regardless of the fact that not everyone celebrates chinese new year >.> yeah. political correctness annoys me :)

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Err, no. It's called 'Yule' because it's called Yule/Yuletide in the lore. :) Yuletide is, for hobbits, the 3 days at the end of the year and 3 days at the beginning of the year (Foreyule 29, 30, 1 Yule, 2 Yule, Afteryule 1, 2), and it was celebrated as a bit of a New Year's festival. The fact that it is so close to Christmas is coincidental, and Turbine connects it with some Christmasy themes because of player expectations- but they do not add *any* Christian references, which would be inappropriate in Middle-earth. Besides, trees and wreaths have been connected to Christmas since the 16th century, and yule logs are even older, so they are not ridiculously modern.

I do not think Elves call it "Yule" in game, which would be inappropriate. And when we get to Gondor, and there are any celebrations down there, I fully expect Yule to be called Mettare (with an accent over the 'e', though I don't know how to do the two dots with this).

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Originally Posted by Thrangor

You're talking off the top of your head, and it shows. Nearly every MMO has some sort of holiday event in the winter season. It may not be called "Christmas" but for all intents and purposes, it is. To bring up the "where do they draw the line" argument is completely beyond the pale. EVERYONE else does it: WOW, AO, DDO, CO, CoX, Runescape, and if I remember correctly, UO. They are not in any way Chanukkah or Kwanzaa celebrations, they are by the persistence of Santa hats and candy canes Christmas celebrations (Ramadan is in August, it's not a winter event, and Ashura is a day of mourning, not a festival). That's off the top of MY head. Why shouldn't it be expected here?

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Actually, as I explained, Yule is mentioned in the Appendices, and it takes place at the end of the year. Because it coincides with our Christmas, Turbine added some themes from Christmas that would be appropriate in Middle-earth, such as the decorations and presents. And not only does Yule exist in lore, but it has existed for centuries before becoming synonymous with 'Christmas' with some people. As the article explains, the Yule-log and Yule-carols have existed for a long time, and are not inappropriate for Middle-earth.

So no, it's not Christmas. It's Yule, and not the exact Yule that Neopagans celebrate, either, but Yule that Middle-earth celebrates. We just share some of the same traditions, like decorating, and fans are free to interpret it as a Christmas celebration despite there not being any direct references to Christmas (and do not Jewish people decorate for Hanukkah with similar things? I am afraid my knowledge is rusty there).