Change the Lootsystem for landscape

I want to suggest to change the lootsystem in landscape. It has some issues that lead to real problems.

How it works and what the issues are:
Today, everyone hitting an enemy will get the whole loot.
If one character kills an enemy, he will get 1 loot.
If two characters kill an enemy, they get 2 loots and only need half of the time.
If ten characters kill an enemy, they get 10 loots and need only 1/10 of the time.

In other words, the loot per time that players get raises quadrupoled with the number of the players. They need less time to get more loot.
This is not only illogical (why should an orc drop a sword for every player if he only wields one), it leads to people making large groups and farming very efficiently, while making large groups results in performance issues for everyone involved PLUS for people that dont take part but are in the same region.

How it should work / how to solve the problem:
An orc should only drop one sword, because he only has one. If several players are involved in killing the orc, only one should get the orcs sword.
An orcs sword is not a very interesting loot, so no one will really be harmed by this change. Plus, the reason to change the lootsystem from only one loot to one per player were raremobs and their shards, which are no problem anymore.
Gold obviously should be shared between the players killing the orc as its more easy to share gold that to share a sword.

Issues with only one loot per mob:
-AFK-Farmers get much less reward (this is a good one imo).
-Depending on how it gets determined who gets the loot if several ungrouped people are involved, it may be possible for some to annoy others. (imo, better punish idiots with GMpower than have such a weird system like we have today). Here, some thoughts are required before changing something. best case would be shared loot as if one was grouped, even without a group.
-It will be inefficient to take more people than you need to do content because with more people the reward per person will go down. This will lead to less farmraids and therefore less lag (less lag is always good).
-If its impossible to share kills if loot doesnt get shared, the change will make questing/deeding in crowded areas harder. However, this should not be impossible, its 'just a matter of coding it right'. Even if this issue cant be solved with the available ressources, the change should be done imo.

So besides the last point, only players that tend to exploiting and malicious behaviour get harmed, while players that play as intended are fronted with less lag, less inflation and more logic. Therefore, I think, the pros clearly outweigh the cons and the lootsystem should be changed (back).


Suggestion gotten from the discussion in the thread:
If its too harsh to go down direcly to logical loot, keep the general system, but put some diminishing return on the amount of loot that gets rewarded, depending on the number of looters.

your only thinking of the current issue, if you change things it will kill whatever is left of community spirit for good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jungle_Boogy

your only thinking of the current issue, if you change things it will kill whatever is left of community spirit for good.

---

what do you mean? This is not just about the current Lang Rhuven farm, although it again made clear that the lootsystem is just wrong.
It was wrong for years. Clearly. It just wasn't as urgent as its now. Without the change in those days, we'd had much less inflation and much less goldfarmers/sellers in the last years.

Why do you think, this would kill the community spirit? Those who play together usually do it in groups/instances -> not affected as there is only one chest per boss anyway in instances... okay, in some old instances, every participating player gets the whole chestloot... but thats not really worth it anyway, going there for the loot.

I just dont get what you mean, maybe you might make it more clear?

so no one has good points why we really need one share of loot per person in lotro?

Then why do we have the lootsystem we have?

Please change.

I have been thinking on this and have to agree. Instance loot does not multiply so why does landscape loot?

It would probably be best if mobs act like chests. They have a certain amount of loot and if more players kill it the currency is split and the other items rolled for. I think that would discourage farming since the loot does not multiply and needs to be shared.

Maybe solo mob 1-2 drops plus currency,
small fellowship mob 3-6 plus currency,
big fellowship mob 6-12 plus currency,
raid mob, RTs, warbands 12-24 plus currency.

Everybody would get quest items.

Some Instance loot absolutely multiplies. Things that go straight to your bag multiply. All the Daily instances for example. You can park 5 mules at the door and clear it with one person every toon gets loot. Having it work like this encourages grouping. Having it split set loot encourages doing content with the smallest group possible.


Things that are available for masterloot do not(Like the armor from the RAID on T2).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xadoor

Some Instance loot absolutely multiplies. Things that go straight to your bag multiply. All the Daily instances for example. You can park 5 mules at the door and clear it with one person every toon gets loot. Having it work like this encourages grouping. Having it split set loot encourages doing content with the smallest group possible.


Things that are available for masterloot do not(Like the armor from the RAID on T2).

---

In some cases, multiplied loot is viable, although it should be needed nowhere. Its not good for landscape or any area with respawn.

Magical multiplication of loot according to how many people are in a group or tag the mob shouldn't be an incentive to group. The incentive to group should be content that is difficult enough to require a group!

Hay-suse people have bizarre, even perverse concepts of game design. And then when those concepts lead to things such as one person multiboxing 12 clients to hoover up 12x loot for himself, they then argue backwards into rationalizing/justifying that too.

A mob should carry whatever loot it carries. Having it magically multiply itself might have solved some issues and simplified things for the devs back when Rohan was being developed. But perhaps it's time to reevaluate that counter-intuitive kludgy/hacky change in the face of the way it continues to be abused/exploited.

--H

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oelle

I want to suggest to change the lootsystem in landscape. It has some issues that lead to real problems.

How it works and what the issues are:
Today, everyone hitting an enemy will get the whole loot.
If one character kills an enemy, he will get 1 loot.
If two characters kill an enemy, they get 2 loots and only need half of the time.
If ten characters kill an enemy, they get 10 loots and need only 1/10 of the time.

In other words, the loot per time that players get raises quadrupoled with the number of the players. They need less time to get more loot.
This is not only illogical (why should an orc drop a sword for every player if he only wields one), it leads to people making large groups and farming very efficiently, while making large groups results in performance issues for everyone involved PLUS for people that dont take part but are in the same region.

How it should work / how to solve the problem:
An orc should only drop one sword, because he only has one. If several players are involved in killing the orc, only one should get the orcs sword.
An orcs sword is not a very interesting loot, so no one will really be harmed by this change. Plus, the reason to change the lootsystem from only one loot to one per player were raremobs and their shards, which are no problem anymore.
Gold obviously should be shared between the players killing the orc as its more easy to share gold that to share a sword.

Issues with only one loot per mob:
-AFK-Farmers get much less reward (this is a good one imo).
-Depending on how it gets determined who gets the loot if several ungrouped people are involved, it may be possible for some to annoy others. (imo, better punish idiots with GMpower than have such a weird system like we have today). Here, some thoughts are required before changing something. Imo, it should be about firsthit or about who does the most damage, both has pros and cons.
-It will be inefficient to take more people than you need to do content because with more people the reward per person will go down. This will lead to less farmraids and therefore less lag (less lag is always good).
-If its impossible to share kills if loot doesnt get shared, the change will make questing/deeding in crowded areas harder. However, this should not be impossible, its 'just a matter of coding it right'. Even if this issue cant be solved with the available ressources, the change should be done imo.

So besides the last point, only players that tend to exploiting and malicious behaviour get harmed, while players that play as intended are fronted with less lag, less inflation and more logic. Therefore, I think, the pros clearly outweigh the cons and the lootsystem should be changed (back).

---

I will tell you that not only was griefing possible by someone tagging it before you did, whether solo or not; a significant fraction routinely did just that! That's one, of a number of reasons, why it was changed and was nearly universally applauded when implemented. Farm trains need to be addressed, and I would not want to go back to the old system, having been on the griefed side often enough.

Fully agreed with the OP

Loot system on landscape needs to change back to fellowship distribution.

6 player in a fellowship? 1/6th the loot per kill.

/signed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cdq1958

I will tell you that not only was griefing possible by someone tagging it before you did, whether solo or not; a significant fraction routinely did just that! That's one, of a number of reasons, why it was changed and was nearly universally applauded when implemented. Farm trains need to be addressed, and I would not want to go back to the old system, having been on the griefed side often enough.

---

Yup, griefing was a problem of the old system and is not a problem with the new system.
However, griefing should just be forbidden and lead to bans if it is obviously intended by the griefer. If its just several people trying to kill mobs and one of them is faster with tabbing, then its not griefing, its just better skill. There should not be mobs anymore that you really need to tab. Mobs dont drop that crazy stuff. And if someone really tabs all your mobs... you should have no reason to kill them for him. Just run away and get others. sooner or later he will die if he pulls every mob in the world.
However, they dont even need to change the system back to only one person/group gets the loot.
I have no problem with open tabbing. But if someone tags the mobs i fight, he should get a part of the loot, not everything. And if someone shows up and helps me fighting my mobs, I should get only parts of the loot and not everything.

I'm not saying they need to change back to first tagger gets everything (although this is the easiest implementation and imo good enough and clearly better than whats going on now (exploiting was/is much more common than griefing with tagging (if everyone on your server is an idiot, find a new one))).

As I and several others pointed out, kills for quests/deeds should still count for everyone that helps killing something.
Just the loot shouldnt multiply. It should be shared between everyone that helped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oelle

I want to suggest to change the lootsystem in landscape. It has some issues that lead to real problems.

How it works and what the issues are:
Today, everyone hitting an enemy will get the whole loot.
If one character kills an enemy, he will get 1 loot.
If two characters kill an enemy, they get 2 loots and only need half of the time.
If ten characters kill an enemy, they get 10 loots and need only 1/10 of the time.

In other words, the loot per time that players get raises quadrupoled with the number of the players. They need less time to get more loot.
This is not only illogical (why should an orc drop a sword for every player if he only wields one), it leads to people making large groups and farming very efficiently, while making large groups results in performance issues for everyone involved PLUS for people that dont take part but are in the same region.

How it should work / how to solve the problem:
An orc should only drop one sword, because he only has one. If several players are involved in killing the orc, only one should get the orcs sword.
An orcs sword is not a very interesting loot, so no one will really be harmed by this change. Plus, the reason to change the lootsystem from only one loot to one per player were raremobs and their shards, which are no problem anymore.
Gold obviously should be shared between the players killing the orc as its more easy to share gold that to share a sword.

Issues with only one loot per mob:
-AFK-Farmers get much less reward (this is a good one imo).
-Depending on how it gets determined who gets the loot if several ungrouped people are involved, it may be possible for some to annoy others. (imo, better punish idiots with GMpower than have such a weird system like we have today). Here, some thoughts are required before changing something. Imo, it should be about firsthit or about who does the most damage, both has pros and cons.
-It will be inefficient to take more people than you need to do content because with more people the reward per person will go down. This will lead to less farmraids and therefore less lag (less lag is always good).
-If its impossible to share kills if loot doesnt get shared, the change will make questing/deeding in crowded areas harder. However, this should not be impossible, its 'just a matter of coding it right'. Even if this issue cant be solved with the available ressources, the change should be done imo.

So besides the last point, only players that tend to exploiting and malicious behaviour get harmed, while players that play as intended are fronted with less lag, less inflation and more logic. Therefore, I think, the pros clearly outweigh the cons and the lootsystem should be changed (back).

---

Do you mean open tapping? If so, I like it much, much better than it was before. There is no way I would ever want to go back to the old loot system. I hated it.

If I misunderstood your post, my apologies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nymphonic

Do you mean open tapping? If so, I like it much, much better than it was before. There is no way I would ever want to go back to the old loot system. I hated it.

If I misunderstood your post, my apologies.

---

Nothing wrong with open tabbing, you just shouldnt get the whole loot for every player if you kill it in a team. Shouldnt matter if the team is in a group or not.

-> "AFK" loot farmers been around since open beta. This was before individual loot "junk loot" was implemented. As far as I know the high prized items such as loot boxes, keys, rare items rolls with luck factor and not fellowship base rolls.
-> It was implemented to help with reputation gains for characters. ie task rep items.
-> Cause of lag can be due to different settings, factors such as ISP, PC quality etc.
-> If they decided not to be in a group they can easily tagged mobs and still get the individual loot. Unless you introduced the "tagged" mob where the mob turns white. Again that was the caused of a major headache back then. It pisses off majority of players even the ones in fellowship.


Inefficient, ineffective and down right bothersome to most players who prefer to be in a group or just want to tag / kill mobs :D.

Alright. I see you killing a beastie. You've been at it a while, I hit it with a single auto-attack and steal half the loot. Woohoo!

... That's how a lot of people used to act.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoldenusG

Alright. I see you killing a beastie. You've been at it a while, I hit it with a single auto-attack and steal half the loot. Woohoo!

... That's how a lot of people used to act.

---

It also used to be the case that only half-xp was lost. But not loot. A tagged monster turned grey to everyone else which meant that no loot would come to anyone else who attacked it. The person who tagged it got full loot. If they were in a fellowship, the loot was divided among the tagging fellowship.

It was, to use a technical term: Better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oelle

so no one has good points why we really need one share of loot per person in lotro?

Then why do we have the lootsystem we have?

Please change.

---

It was changed because players hated the old system with loot and tapping. Under the old system the player or fellowship that hit the mob first got everything. Problems:

1) You are your group were slow. You did not get the tap you got nothing.

2) You were in a fellowship. Everybody split the one set of loot. The more people you had the less loot you got.

What you would see is players that had characters that were quick at getting taps. Either because their class was good at getting taps and or the player was quick on the draw. Since there is one set of loot. They never join a fellowship. They would take all the loot. They would get all the kill credit so you could not advantage your deeds or quests.

There were cases doing quests where I had to log my character out. Periodically log back in to see if the jerk was done. The case I remember that aggravated me the most was a quest to kill stealth wolves in lone lands. I could not get the jerk to allow me in fellowship to get the kills even after I offered to let him have all the loot.

The current system is designed to prevent players from taking everything. There is no reason to not group up because gets their own personal loot. Everybody gets credit for the kill. Even if they do not want to group up. You can still get your loot and a kill credit by sticking the target.

That is the reason why the current tapping and loot system exists. To get rid of loot hogs.

I have no desire to go back to the old system which sucked. One than once I joined a group to advance deeds, quests or something else. I had to give my share of the loot up to get access to the firepower that having extra people with you brings. Set the loot threshold as low as possible with Master Looter.

It's astounding to me how so many people can have such vastly different experiences of the same system.

I brought six classes to level 50 under the old system. Not once do I recall getting angry at someone for tapping mobs before I could. Not once did I need to offer up all the loot from the kills to be allowed into a fellowship. And I can assure you, I'm the guy who backs off a resource node if I just see someone approaching it. So I didn't fail to experience such things because I was the one perpetrating such things. I was inviting passersby to fellowships. And those who didn't accept were given some space.

I just can't imagine considering the way it is currently to be superior in that it not only harms the suspension of disbelief (the Orc you just killed has a magically expanding loot bag according to however many killed him), but is also so exploited to the detriment of the game's integrity and economy.

All so that I don't have my feelings hurt or have to wait a few minutes for a particularly aggressive tagger to leave?

This is why we can't have nice things (loot systems that are internally consistent, realistic to a degree, and not prone to abuse/exploiting).

So, this was changed to placate the exquisitely sensitive and/or easily aggravated so that they wouldn't think something "unfair" is going on. And now those openly and boldly exploiting it via single-player afk/asleep/netflix-watching 6-12-client gold farms mock and belittle the very concept of "fairness" when it is pointed out that they are exploiting it. I'm not sure that's irony. I'm just sure it sucks. And diminishes the integrity of the game far more than a little annoyance at someone tagging mobs before I could.

--H

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

I have no desire to go back to the old system which sucked. One than once I joined a group to advance deeds, quests or something else. I had to give my share of the loot up to get access to the firepower that having extra people with you brings. Set the loot threshold as low as possible with Master Looter.

---

I think most get to re-lived the old system once again when the Devs released the best, most anticipated quest in The Waste prior to 20.1 . It was called "Take Heart, Men Of Gondor". Everyone loved that quest... they love it so much they stayed more than 10 -30 minutes while talking about it in World chat, obviously with lots of praise. Imagine watching someone tag and then the soldier run away and disappear, he gets credit and you don't, here you are in a dilemma should you move and tag that soldier other side of the map or wait until this soldier returns. It is such a exhilarating, full of adrenaline, fun quests. Some suggests to skip it, who would want to do that and relieved good parts of lotro's history.

Everyone wants the good old personal tag and credit back! What do you mean you don't have desire to bring that system back? Where is the love of the game, the passion, the essence of COMPETITION? Where is the urge, the drive to run faster than the opposite player right next to you so can you tag faster?

Sarcasm aside. Yeah no one wants the "good" old system back. Maybe some do, thank goodness they are not the game developers.

Current one works just fine. In fact its superior to old click body, loot all.

System as it is, is just fine for me, cause helps me reduce the grind.

With SSG introducing new gear every few months i prefer getting things faster, since i can be online very few hours per week.

As for the exploit, i never thought the U20 farms as an exploit. SSG released that content although was aware of the fact that those areas will be heavily farmed. The fact is that Turbine/SSG just dont care...

Take a look at the way more obvious exploit of players skipping half DoS to get to the last boss. Did the Devs anything to fix it, after all this time? No. So for me was WAI and i'm doing it with no regrets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kostas2112

Take a look at the way more obvious exploit of players skipping half DoS to get to the last boss. Did the Devs anything to fix it, after all this time? No. So for me was WAI and i'm doing it with no regrets.

---

Afaik, they changed something in how the doors in there work and minstrels cant feign death in bossareas anymore. I never tried to exploit that instance, always play instances complete or not at all... But I think, I read they changed something there to stop exploiting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oelle

Afaik, they changed something in how the doors in there work and minstrels cant feign death in bossareas anymore. I never tried to exploit that instance, always play instances complete or not at all... But I think, I read they changed something there to stop exploiting.

---

They fixed the last door opened by fellow wardens without killing the enemy door-wardens but still half the instance can be skipped by following a certain path on the map.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kostas2112

They fixed the last door opened by fellow wardens without killing the enemy door-wardens but still half the instance can be skipped by following a certain path on the map.

---

Ah, okay. I thought of the wrong instance. I thought of RC, not DoS.
Yea, sure, several weird mechanics in lotro. However, this thread is about loot, not exploits and bugs in general... And loot should not multiply in areas with respawn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oelle

Ah, okay. I thought of the wrong instance. I thought of RC, not DoS.
Yea, sure, several weird mechanics in lotro. However, this thread is about loot, not exploits and bugs in general... And loot should not multiply in areas with respawn.

---

If you want my opinion, loot should multiply X10 in all areas from now on, cause Turbine/SSG has really !@$!#$ us with all that grind. I'm sick of it. Every time it gets worse. Essenses, gear, scrolls.... Enough is enough. Please, for the love of god, give us decent non-essense gear...