Clarity on the new Gold Necklaces

The current understanding is that you need 10 lumps (total) to upgrade the purple necklace to gold. A "BestInSlot" item.

This, obviously, has upset people looking at the live stats.
- It costs a total of 25,000 write to max the item, seen as the item costs 2,500 individually
- If we are only looking at writ per delving, doing t10 (50 writ) thats 500 delvings to be done to get all the items
- Assuming there is also a 1% drop chance, maybe more like 250 t10 delvings
- A little less when we account for deeds, decon drops
- At 10 delvings a day, thats 25-50 days of delvings

Correct me if my maths is wrong - sorry

However, the new delving update added some spice to the calculation.
- New weekly quests giving a total of 500 writ
- New t12 gives 60, not 50 (same difficulty assumed)
- There is new 3man delvings in school + libary with a new chest

How much are these new (or changes to old droprates) going to change how quickly we can aquire the necklace?

Will there be an alternative route for people who hate delvings?

Anything I'm wrong or missing here?

The game is becoming increasing alt-un-friendly. Is this just another layer to this?

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Originally Posted by bohbashum

The current understanding is that you need 10 lumps (total) to upgrade the purple necklace to gold. A "BestInSlot" item.

This, obviously, has upset people looking at the live stats.
- It costs a total of 25,000 write to max the item, seen as the item costs 2,500 individually
- If we are only looking at writ per delving, doing t10 (50 writ) thats 500 delvings to be done to get all the items
- Assuming there is also a 1% drop chance, maybe more like 250 t10 delvings
- A little less when we account for deeds, decon drops
- At 10 delvings a day, thats 25-50 days of delvings

Correct me if my maths is wrong - sorry

However, the new delving update added some spice to the calculation.
- New weekly quests giving a total of 500 writ
- New t12 gives 60, not 50 (same difficulty assumed)
- There is new 3man delvings in school + libary with a new chest

How much are these new (or changes to old droprates) going to change how quickly we can aquire the necklace?

Will there be an alternative route for people who hate delvings?

Anything I'm wrong or missing here?

The game is becoming increasing alt-un-friendly. Is this just another layer to this?

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First, I would suggest reviewing the developer diary on the changes to Delvings here for an outline of the changes being made to Delvings.

Second, I am not going to bury the lede. What you are seeing regarding the new "BiS" necklace is only one of the avenues by which the item can be acquired. When we introduced Delvings we were pretty clear that they would be an alternate way to get raid level gear. We are sticking to that direction. Delvings are a way to get the new "BiS" necklace, but not the only way. The necklace will drop, unsurprisingly, in the raid - once it becomes active and players reach the correct tier for the item to drop.

In addition to this, the lumps of silver are available in more potential locations, which should make them easier to acquire. The reason that the Delving system was chosen for a way to acquire the new "BiS" necklace was to provide a reason to hang on to those Sarch Vorn necklaces - and not completely remove their value with the onset of U35.

Third, because we know that the acquisition channels to get the new "BiS" necklace may not appear to everyone, we already have a plan slated to make the item more readily available to those who have not been fortunate enough to acquire the item through more traditional means. This solution appears a little later in the year, when the item will still have relevance.

We will continue to do our best to provide manifold avenues for item acquisition, and while we may not always come out and provide drop rates, or indicate where the items are going to be found, it is not because we are trying to obfuscate the information. Rather, it is that we still think that there are some players who like to discover and learn things on their own.

The TL;DR here is: more than one way to get the new BiS Necklace and the Delving avenue might be most time intensive way to get the item. While this may not be a desirable route to acquire for every individual player, it remains an option to all players.

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

Second, I am not going to bury the lede. What you are seeing regarding the new "BiS" necklace is only one of the avenues by which the item can be acquired. When we introduced Delvings we were pretty clear that they would be an alternate way to get raid level gear. We are sticking to that direction. Delvings are a way to get the new "BiS" necklace, but not the only way. The necklace will drop, unsurprisingly, in the raid - once it becomes active and players reach the correct tier for the item to drop.

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So - the raid drop tables on BR are incorrect then? Will the gold neck be replacing the gold class item drops on raid T4-5? In addition to? This still means that there will be no "new" gear in higher tiers of the raid (t3-5) which kinda blows.

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

In addition to this, the lumps of silver are available in more potential locations, which should make them easier to acquire. The reason that the Delving system was chosen for a way to acquire the new "BiS" necklace was to provide a reason to hang on to those Sarch Vorn necklaces - and not completely remove their value with the onset of U35.

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Is this the 1% drop rate on the last boss in the raid? That is hardly "more potential locations, which should make them easier to acquire". The drop rate will need to be much, much much much, higher to make that a meaningful drop in content you can do only a couple times per week per char

DISCLAIMER - I reposted this from Kruelle with permission, but it does reflect my thoughts as well.

for the purple necklace *Sarch Vorn* tier 5 is needed, which I think is wrong, in my opinion this should be barterable from T2, simply for the reason that this necklace is purple and not teal/blue.

To add some of my own thoughts to this. If these gold necklaces are intended to be acquirable from T4-5 of the raid, making them available through any amount of grinding outside that setting will make that goal obsolete. Players who intend to engage in t4-5 of the raid will grind these necklaces out beforehand to make their characters more powerful.

I do not disagree with the intention to give players a way to acquire good gear to be able to catch up, but BiS gear should not be gated behind a solo grind, especially not when they are bound to character.

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Originally Posted by Vuldyn

So - the raid drop tables on BR are incorrect then? Will the gold neck be replacing the gold class item drops on raid T4-5? In addition to? This still means that there will be no "new" gear in higher tiers of the raid (t3-5) which kinda blows.

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Not everything that is meant to drop in the raid was available for testing. Nor were all the tiers populated.

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Originally Posted by Vuldyn

Is this the 1% drop rate on the last boss in the raid? That is hardly "more potential locations, which should make them easier to acquire". The drop rate will need to be much, much much much, higher to make that a meaningful drop in content you can do only a couple times per week per char

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We are not offering up the drop rates on items.

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Originally Posted by Nanganark

for the purple necklace *Sarch Vorn* tier 5 is needed, which I think is wrong, in my opinion this should be barterable from T2, simply for the reason that this necklace is purple and not teal/blue.

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Certainly something that we can consider.

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

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Thanks for that.

On the terms of splitting up Delving and Instances tho. Will the necklace / cloak drops from instances (SV, Doom, new raid) be decon-able to writ so ensure that it's a viable route?

Worried that (given locks... and maybe I should start a thread on that...) you have 5 or less chances of getting the cloak (tiers of raid + lock), then you have to wait. In that waiting time you might feel forced to delving's for security.

I'm fine with SSG decision, more reasons to grind delvings and SV.

But I don't like other thing: They introduce blue neck > gold neck barter in last late testing. Such things must be introduced FIRST so people can plan ahead what they need to do next and how they need to spend their lumps of silves. I already heard from many people what they upgrade purple neck into blue neck in recent weeks, and they hate that now, because now they need 5 more to upgrade to gold.

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

When we introduced Delvings we were pretty clear that they would be an alternate way to get raid level gear. We are sticking to that direction. Delvings are a way to get the new "BiS" necklace, but not the only way.

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While this may become true for the new BIS necklace, this is currently NOT the case. Delvings are no "alternative" for the current BIS teal necklace / gold cloak, they are the ONLY way. If the upgraded version of the necklace or the upgrade tokens would drop directly for example in SV T4/5 this would be no problem, but they don't.

Also it's really bad that nothing from Doom/SV is deconstructable for Embers or Writs and they still have locks. With the upcoming ember barter for SV it doesn't make any sense that the items from SV don't deconstruct to embers and you have to run other instances or weeklies to earn currency for the barterer you unlocked with the SV deed.

IF SSG want to have some connection between BTS loot and Carn Dum loot all loot drops from DoCG and SV must be deconstructable for Embers. People fine with running instances weekly if they get VXP and embers from them, even then they don't need all loot from that instances.

When we have prices like 7-9K embers per item, we need more sources for embers, not less sources

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

First, I would suggest reviewing the developer diary on the changes to Delvings here for an outline of the changes being made to Delvings.

Second, I am not going to bury the lede. What you are seeing regarding the new "BiS" necklace is only one of the avenues by which the item can be acquired. When we introduced Delvings we were pretty clear that they would be an alternate way to get raid level gear. We are sticking to that direction. Delvings are a way to get the new "BiS" necklace, but not the only way. The necklace will drop, unsurprisingly, in the raid - once it becomes active and players reach the correct tier for the item to drop.

In addition to this, the lumps of silver are available in more potential locations, which should make them easier to acquire. The reason that the Delving system was chosen for a way to acquire the new "BiS" necklace was to provide a reason to hang on to those Sarch Vorn necklaces - and not completely remove their value with the onset of U35.

Third, because we know that the acquisition channels to get the new "BiS" necklace may not appear to everyone, we already have a plan slated to make the item more readily available to those who have not been fortunate enough to acquire the item through more traditional means. This solution appears a little later in the year, when the item will still have relevance.

We will continue to do our best to provide manifold avenues for item acquisition, and while we may not always come out and provide drop rates, or indicate where the items are going to be found, it is not because we are trying to obfuscate the information. Rather, it is that we still think that there are some players who like to discover and learn things on their own.

The TL;DR here is: more than one way to get the new BiS Necklace and the Delving avenue might be most time intensive way to get the item. While this may not be a desirable route to acquire for every individual player, it remains an option to all players.

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So just throwing random numbers out. If 1 person out of 10 pref not to see the drop rate, then screw got other 9 ppl who want to see them. Probably because the drop rates are stingy af, got it.
I hope you guys hold true to your word for delvings to be an ALTERNATIVE way to get best in slot gear. Hoping the gold necklace drops in the raids and not have to be upgraded by a rare material with a 1% drop rate.

It's good to hear that the necklace becomes available through multiple routes.

Just a quick set of questions towards my thoughts on this Orion if you happen to have some time here to answer them.

Question 1: Is it possible to make the new necklaces or the Cardolan Essences (Bound to Account) like the old Pelargir Class Essences (see image below)
https://i.imgur.com/8IFr1pn.png

This way it would be way easier to keep a certain item bound to ''account'' rather then slotting an essence on it that you rather don't want as it binds the item to the specific character.

Question 2: Is it possible to make the Cardolan Essences slottable on both Cloak or Necklace (or even any piece of equipment). Some classes offer pretty good Cloak Essences for a specific line, but usually not great options for the ''other'' slot. Hence we are forced to use an essence we rather don't want too. Any ideas on this, or someone who has opted this in the past? As the old Pelargir class essences were also not bound to any specific essence slot.

Question 3: If not for question 2 then maybe this question as an alternative. Is it possible to make the option available to slot a ''regular'' Lively Delving Essence in a Class Specific slot in case you rather don't want to use the class essence. That way you also don't force people to either choose the class essence or keep the slot open because you rather don't want to bind it to a specific character?

I think one of these situations would help a lot of players in a lot of manners and make the delving system still rewarding, but not as grindy as it is for players with a lot of alts. I wonder what you think!

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

Certainly something that we can consider.

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I would recommend not considering giving out the necklace barter for t2, which has been of trivial difficulty since day one and would drastically reduce player engagement with the instance.

If you are considering updating the deed barter options for SV, I would hope for the following:

T2 - off-hands, shields
T3 - bracelets (unchanged)
T4 - necklaces
T5 - essence box, cosmetics/housing

Additionally with Silver Lumps being made available outside of Delvings, I would love to see them added to T3-5 B3 loot table, even if the drop rates are low at ~1/3/5%.

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Originally Posted by Fantomex

Additionally with Silver Lumps being made available outside of Delvings, I would love to see them added to T3-5 B3 loot table, even if the drop rates are low at ~1/3/5%.

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Sadly they will be only from T4-T5 raid.

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Originally Posted by Thoringir

While this may become true for the new BIS necklace, this is currently NOT the case. Delvings are no "alternative" for the current BIS teal necklace / gold cloak, they are the ONLY way. If the upgraded version of the necklace or the upgrade tokens would drop directly for example in SV T4/5 this would be no problem, but they don't.

Also it's really bad that nothing from Doom/SV is deconstructable for Embers or Writs and they still have locks. With the upcoming ember barter for SV it doesn't make any sense that the items from SV don't deconstruct to embers and you have to run other instances or weeklies to earn currency for the barterer you unlocked with the SV deed.

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We, indeed, did make the decision to put one BiS on the delvings. As we move into a more normal rotation for the future, we will likely review and, potentially, reconsider the way that those drops are distributed. We do want to continue refining the repeatable rewards, and we are taking a good first step with the upcoming release.

We will be talking about what might be done for the longevity of Sarch Vorn and other instances and their rewards, over time.

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Originally Posted by FartNinja

I hope you guys hold true to your word for delvings to be an ALTERNATIVE way to get best in slot gear. Hoping the gold necklace drops in the raids and not have to be upgraded by a rare material with a 1% drop rate.

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We are not changing the expectation or directiion of the Delving system.

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Originally Posted by Geremir

Question 1: Is it possible to make the new necklaces or the Cardolan Essences (Bound to Account) like the old Pelargir Class Essences (see image below)

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We have not discussed this. We certainly see your feedback.

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Originally Posted by Geremir

Question 2: Is it possible to make the Cardolan Essences slottable on both Cloak or Necklace (or even any piece of equipment). Some classes offer pretty good Cloak Essences for a specific line, but usually not great options for the ''other'' slot. Hence we are forced to use an essence we rather don't want too. Any ideas on this, or someone who has opted this in the past? As the old Pelargir class essences were also not bound to any specific essence slot.

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Again, this is not something that we have discussed. Though, we know that there is a demand for new essences in a wider varierty.

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Originally Posted by Geremir

Question 3: If not for question 2 then maybe this question as an alternative. Is it possible to make the option available to slot a ''regular'' Lively Delving Essence in a Class Specific slot in case you rather don't want to use the class essence. That way you also don't force people to either choose the class essence or keep the slot open because you rather don't want to bind it to a specific character?

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I will refer to the second part of my answer to question 2.

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

Again, this is not something that we have discussed. Though, we know that there is a demand for new essences in a wider varierty.

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It's not that, really. Some classes and specs do not have useful pieces for both slots. For example, minstrels have 2 dps neck essences and 2 healing cloak essences. This is a problem.

Right now on test server you need 1 Carn Dum Lump to barter Blue SV necklace or Blue Carn Dum necklace into Gold Carn Dum necklace. Lumps from delvings used only for change between purple SV necklace and blue SV necklace. So you can say goodbye to all words about "longevity of Sarch Vorn". Rumored way to get Carn Dum Lump - T2 new raid, last boss

Definitely feel like the necklace drop rate should either be increased or the barterer changed to maybe t3. T5 is very challenging and for a purple item is a little strange. Feels like alot of grind for such a low stat item. I get that you can upgrade this but the end result items should be the grind not the base item.

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Originally Posted by SSG_Orion

We are not offering up the drop rates on items.

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Which is wrong and should change. Most games even have a dungeon journal with what drop, from who, and % chanse to get.
Why not in lotro ? What the problem to know our chanses and pick our instance/raid/boss/mobs to farm ?
Or we need to ban head on the till we get "lucky" ?

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Originally Posted by Plidak

Which is wrong and should change. Most games even have a dungeon journal with what drop, from who, and % chanse to get.
Why not in lotro ? What the problem to know our chanses and pick our instance/raid/boss/mobs to farm ?
Or we need to ban head on the till we get "lucky" ?

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A lot of times we are required to obtain a set of things, be it three set of pages at 50, a suit of bonus armour or a range of choice traceries for our LIs. Problem is even with a low RNG drop rate we are going to make early gains because there are a wider number of things that advance our goals. It is however much the worse when we near the end and the pool of still required items is small: at that point our chance to get that last piece can become insignificant unless we have some alternative - like trade of pages (prohibited), armour (later barter options) and traceries (tokens for filling the gaps).

Do you feel lucky? Having the chances hidden means they can be changed without informing us! The "no spoilers" excuse that only has us confused, annoyed, just give up trying or to continue banging our heads after the carpet has been pulled? Frustration.