Feedback: New Player Tips for Guardians

[oaxaca_dan]

Prepare to have your mind blown...

1. Turn the Tables: When you're stunned, using TtT will knock down the opponent and start an FM
2. Fray the Edge: Stackable debuff of sorts that increases random FM chance by 1%, but that number increases each time it stacks up to a max of 6% normally. There is a trait that will increase this % to 30%, iirc. However, it is not easy to stack 5 or 6 fray the edge debuffs and it takes forever. Not reliable.
3. To the King. This legendary will start an FM (if in a group), every time it crits. The best non-burglar FM skill in my opinion.

Keep in mind that if a mob has FM immunity (either permanent or temporary) that TtK won't produce an FM.

Mind = blown. I had no idea TtK produced an FM. Sweet mother of moses.

Back to tweaking poor ol' Aorik.

[Hydgal]

Hey Folks! New to the game and already love it. Long time WoW player here, so i decided to jump on the free wagon again.

As a tank what stats are most important. I have looked but not been able to determine which to be best.

I see Morale (Health)
Might
Agility

As a tank you want to get the most Health as possible, but you want to hit your caps as well. Where should a good focus be for stats?

I remember in WoW Defense could reach a cap to where you could not be destroyed by mob bosses.

Is there such a thing here?

It depends on your play style. I'm STILL tweaking my Guardian, and he's been at 65 for months. Personally, I maxed out Might first, because of the increase in Block chance (I'm traited to restore power from blocking). Vitality is a close second (you need Morale!), with Agility third (to increase Parry and melee Crit chances) and Fate a distant fourth (more in-combat Power restoration). Now, if you're traiting for Overpower, you're going to want to put Agility first (or a close second to Vitality), as most OP skills trigger off of Parry events. It's a lot to keep in mind, but my best advice for you would be to keep /inspecting other Guardians you meet in game--the best ideas I ever got were just from seeing what other players were doing! And keep asking questions! The Advice chat channel can be your best friend. Good luck and good hunting!

P.S. It is impossible to build a character that is 'unkillable'. You just have to play intelligently, trust in your skills and your Fellows, and above all have fun! If you find that something isn't working out the way you thought, just try something else, and keep trying until you're happy with your build!

[Hydgal]

There are plenty of times when switching to OP + 2H is a good strategy, not just when soloing. If you are building the perfect raiding group and want to faceroll things as fast as possible - don't run a guard as DPS. If you are in a group that has an MT and you are also in the group, you can run OP as DPS. Will you do as much DPS as a hunter, champ or RK? Probably not. Doesn't mean you can't contribute. Make sure to use stagger from the back of mobs to debuff them! If you think outside the box a little you don't need the perfect group every time.

Running in OP with a good 2-hander is a fun way to off-tank, too! You still have plenty of skills to grab aggro off of the healers, and you'll be doing respectable damage. I actually wish I had more opportunities to run in OP with my legendary big ol' hammer that I've spent so much time maxing out (sheds a single tear).

[Hydgal]

I also advise that, but only because once you have To The King (TTK) you can open a whole lotta Conjunctions for your fellow using the Parry response chain.

Also second the many "Remember Threat, not Damage, is your priority - learn a rotation that includes as many threat skills as possible for tanking situations and realize that tanking in a fellowship is a very different experience from adventuring solo...

I don't know if it's luck or my build, but I solo in Block stance and group tank in Threat, and I open Parry events almost as often as Block events (I'd guess about 40% of the time? I haven't paid strict attention). I love being able to bludgeon my foe into unconsciousness with my shield and then follow up with a bleed. *bloodthirsty grin!*

[BaruDwarf]

This should be required reading for anyone who wants to properly fulfill their role in a group:
http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/A_Bas...or_Fellowships

[Harkenbrand]

Guys this is awsome stuff. I have a level 29 Gaurd and never realized how much strategy I'm missing out on! Keep it comming.

[DarknessEternal]

Will someone explain partial defenses and their mitigations (parry/block/evade)?

[dhatcher1]

Will someone explain partial defenses and their mitigations (parry/block/evade)?

In addition to a % chance to block/parry/evade, you also get about 1/4th of that as a chance to partially block/parry/evade. <mouseover your block/parry/evade ratings on the character sheet to see>

If you fail to block/parry/evade you can still partially block, parry or evade then the damage is reduced by your block,parry or evade mitigation percent (which is possible to get to 100%). <mouseover the mitigations on your character sheet to see>

[Grendaran]

There's a statement in the Guardian 101 guide with which I disagree:

You may be wondering, "Why should Guardians bother with Shield-blow in solo play? Threat generation has no inherent advantage for a solo Guardian."

There are many quests where one of the goals is to protect an NPC; in these, threat generation comes into play, and can provide practice opportunities for group play.

[Thor1966]

Okay, great advice here for new players, but please remember that we aren't all up on the jargon... dps, agro (or aggro), tank, off-tank... I don't know all the lingo. I tried to link to the "click here" on getting to know about the class, but it came up as an error.

I have many, many questions... I've been playing seriously for about a month and I do want to get all I can out of the gaming experience. I'm sure I'll be back to ask questions once I've had a chance to see if there are answers in the various posts.

Thanks for helping out us noobs...

Hammer

[Peartree]

I'll try to help you out with the lingo, but I will miss lots of them.

dps- Can be referring to damage output, or to a class who's role is to deal damage (champ, hunter).
aggro (threat)- Er...how much a mob hates you. The mob will attack whoever it hates the most.
tank- The person who is going to be taking all (or most of) the damage from mobs so the other players don't die. (guard, warden).

mob- From what I've been able to understand, it means monster.
off-tank- I think it is the person that grabs mobs who break off of the main tank.
ICMR (ICM)- In Combat Morale Regeneration, or how much green you get back per minute in combat.
ICPR (ICP)- In Combat Power Regeneration, or how much blue you get back perminute in combat.
OP- Overpower, a Guardian stance that deals more melee damage and does other things.
PvM/ PvE- Player vs Monster or Player vs Enemy? The normal gameplay, you vs mobs.
PvP- Player vs Player- Different players fighting against one another.

There are also many acronyms for instances and the like, such as GB (Great Barrows lvl 20+), GA (Garth Agawarn? lvl 32+), and many others that I don't know about. (Levels posted are the levels needed to have these in your skirmish panel, not the level you can join them at, which I believe is almost any level.)

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I'll put in more when they come to me.

[Mudeye]

Sometimes in groups there is a strong need for an off-tank. I've been in this situation a number of times where there is a Guardian and a Warden and the group is trying to decide who tanks. In a situation like that, you (the Guardian) should probably go for the off-tank role. The reason is that Wardens take so long to build threat that any squishy (like the healer) that gets agro will most likely die before the Warden can pull the monsters off. Guardians can do it in a single step.

[GeorgeDeckrage]

Thank you all for the great info. I run my alt as a guardian and another as a Minstrel. At this time my Guardian is at level 13. Since I started, I thought I was a champ....till this morning....go figure.

[Craess]

dps- Can be referring to damage output, or to a class who's role is to deal damage (champ, hunter).
aggro (threat)- Er...how much a mob hates you. The mob will attack whoever it hates the most.
tank- The person who is going to be taking all (or most of) the damage from mobs so the other players don't die. (guard, warden).

mob- From what I've been able to understand, it means monster.
off-tank- I think it is the person that grabs mobs who break off of the main tank.
ICMR (ICM)- In Combat Morale Regeneration, or how much green you get back per minute in combat.
ICPR (ICP)- In Combat Power Regeneration, or how much blue you get back perminute in combat.
OP- Overpower, a Guardian stance that deals more melee damage and does other things.
PvM/ PvE- Player vs Monster or Player vs Enemy? The normal gameplay, you vs mobs.
PvP- Player vs Player- Different players fighting against one another.

pretty much all correct...
MOB = Mobile Object Bearing - comes from the old school online games. (MUDs or multi user domains/dungeons. Text based gaming for the most part, though several graphical muds existed.)

PvE = Player vs Environment. (NPC MOBS)

[ZebOswalt]

This is a verry usful Thread.

[Vhanja]

I've just created my first Guardian (L11), and am wondering if I should even bother learning the two-handed weapons? Is that necessary or useful for a Guard?

[Amagaim]

I was sniffing around some of the lesser Barrows the other day on my L21 Hobbit, and decided to try OP stance for a while... and got my feet shaved for me. I blithely marched into a group of 3 mobs and watched helplessly as they insulted my mother, rolled me down a hill, ate my lunch and drank my milkshake. Yet in Sword'n'Board, I could easily wade into a group of 4 mobs of the same level and chop them down to size without even needing to stop my ongoing conversation about mushroom recipes and thorough contrast of the beers available in the Green Dragon versus those in the Prancing Pony.

This makes me start to wonder if all these stories of OP being for solo work are really true.

Is OP stance really useful for low-level soloing? Or should it really wait until more skills unlock before it becomes truly a viable option?

On a related note, does Overpower stance get a self-heal, or is that only in Sword'n'Board format on a shield-block response?

Also, what is the percentage of increase in damage in Overpower, and does that really make up for the loss of adding shield attack skills in the rotation?

[Dorathin]

Amagaim, I can answer part of your question on Overpower stance.

The main attraction of switching to OP when you first get it is to make solo questing much easier. It allows you burn burn down 1 or 2 mobs much faster than outlasting them with a shield. However, like you say it is difficult to take on as many enemies in OP as in SnB, but this will soon change when you start to unlock more red traits. As the red traits stack up, so does the damage output from OP. This makes it easier to take on multiple enemies purely because you kill them faster. Fully traited, the damage modifier is +31% for OP stance.

OP stance gets really interesting when you get the skill Force Opening, I think it is at level 30 but I may be wrong. This skill opens up a parry response when it hits, allowing you to unleash the great skills from your parry line, and kill stuff even faster. Accompanied by the trait Blocking Force, this skill also opens up a block response on a critical IIRC. If you were to pair this with the trait that improves Catch a Breath, you can get a nice self heal every so often to help you out.

Hope that helps, and that destroying stuff in OP works out for you

[Banatsir]

I am at level 35 on my dwarf guardian now and have used OP for soloing most of the time. It is significantly less resilient than S&B so you do have to be carefeul not to bite off more than you can chew, however I've found that once you level enough to have four red traits open you put out decent damage and take down the mobs before they kill you. I've also found it's very important to have a good double-hander and keep your armour up to date as you level, GB set at 25+ is fantastic and craft-critted armour at 30+ is far better than most quest rewards. I'm not a good player but I don't find it hard to take on 4+ mobs in OP. I also keep my shield and 1-hander on my quickbars in case I get into trouble.

There is no reactive heal in OP as far as I know, since Catch a Breath is a block response. There is a Warrior's Heart at 30 which increases your max morale, I use that as an emergency "heal".

[DolAmrothKnight]

Overpower seems underpowered when you first get it, simply because you don't have a lot of skills to use and you live a lot longer with a one-hander and shield. When you get 4 red traits and more skills like Force Opening, Stagger, and Brutal Assault, suddenly Overpower becomes massively useful. Your single-target dps can almost match that of a champion, and that's saying something.

Also, whenever you get new skills, test them out! Use them over and over, especially if you have deeds as they will unlock traits. Using your skills helps you to learn them and realize that none of your skills are useless.

As for learning to tank, do lots of skirmishes and focus on making your skirmish soldier take no damage whatsoever the entire time. Quite a fun challenge, and you get good at your role fast! Also group early and often, learning the instances and learning your role. And another tip - always open with Guardian's Ward, and keep it up throughout the battle. It does damage and reduces the damage you take, so why not? It makes the healer not have to worry about you as much, it has a short animation and doesn't get in the way of you using your threat-generating skills. So use Guardian's Ward all the time - especially when soloing and you don't have a healer with you!

Overall, stick with it. You may level slower than a high DPS class, but as you level you will find it hard to die, you will gain a solid reputation, and you will be a coveted class to group with. Stick with it, embrace the role, and you will be rewarded. Good luck!

[Thor1966]

Most important tip of all: Do not worry about dying, Guards die; sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. Death helps us learn how not to die in the future.

This is so VERY true. Just recently, I had to die twice to figure out the best tactic in a quest situation. Two attempts didn't work and got me killed... the third worked like a charm. That's a lesson I can now take into other situations.

Bellallung, level 35 Guardian
Officer, Black Veil Mercenaries

[Thor1966]

Another tip from a guardian...

2-handers are for OP, whether soloing or times when block stance isn't needed.
1-handers are for block stance, parry stance and guardian's threat stance, and best used when main tanking or if off-tanking something that hits hard.

There are plenty of times when switching to OP + 2H is a good strategy, not just when soloing. If you are building the perfect raiding group and want to faceroll things as fast as possible - don't run a guard as DPS. If you are in a group that has an MT and you are also in the group, you can run OP as DPS. Will you do as much DPS as a hunter, champ or RK? Probably not. Doesn't mean you can't contribute. Make sure to use stagger from the back of mobs to debuff them! If you think outside the box a little you don't need the perfect group every time.

Please enlighten... What is OP?

Thanks.

FOUND THE ANSWER... Overpower... Thanks.

Bellallung, Level 35 Guardian
Officer, Black Veil Mercenaries

[Thor1966]

I'll try to help you out with the lingo, but I will miss lots of them.

Thanks Peartree... Since I've been in-game now for a bit longer, I've picked up on a lot more of the jargon. Being in a helpful kinship has been a boon of information and resources. Thanks to everyone for all of these great tips.

Bellallung, Level 35 Guardian
Officer, Black Veil Mercenaries

[Thor1966]

I've also found it's very important to have a good double-hander and keep your armour up to date as you level, GB set at 25+ is fantastic and craft-critted armour at 30+ is far better than most quest rewards. I'm not a good player but I don't find it hard to take on 4+ mobs in OP. I also keep my shield and 1-hander on my quickbars in case I get into trouble.

I really hadn't had much use for one two-handed weapons because I felt that the loss of attacks/armor protection from the shield wasn't offset by the increased damage from the two-hander... I did find a nice quest reward two-handed hammer that does fire damage and I'm using that regularly. The armor and weapons you find in skirmish camps or have high level crafters make is so much better than 90% of the stuff you find questing. If you only use quest rewards to equip yourself, I think you'll be sorely under-equipped.

And I love the advice of putting your one-hander and shield on the quickbar... I'll be doing that from now on.

There is no reactive heal in OP as far as I know, since Catch a Breath is a block response. There is a Warrior's Heart at 30 which increases your max morale, I use that as an emergency "heal".

Warrior's Heart is a great skill... it has saved my hide countless times.

Thanks again for all the great advice!

Bellallung, Level 35 Guardian
Officer, Black Veil Mercenaries

[oldbustedjorn]

There is no reactive heal in OP as far as I know, since Catch a Breath is a block response. There is a Warrior's Heart at 30 which increases your max morale, I use that as an emergency "heal".

There is a trait (can't remember the name) that gives you a block reactive when force opening crits. Not extremely reliable but I guess that would technically be a reactive heal in OP (and you could combine that with the catch a breath power restore trait as well). I've not run this way in a while so maybe it can't be done or has been changed.

I do not have much of a problem with staying alive in OP and I'm not an expert on it by any means. I remember doing the walls of moria dungeons (half orcs and lizards) at L45, solo. The only thing I couldn't get past was the boss of that place with his two adds iirc. My biggest issue was not being able to hit red mobs easily.

I'm not saying this to show how good I am (far from it), but rather to give some tips as well as maybe elicit tips from other OP pros.

- Use Guardian's Ward, even in OP, since you can still evade/parry
- Learn how to use Warrior's Heart (fortitude) and Guardian's Pledge
- For Warrior's Heart, use it as a self-heal
- For Guardian's Pledge, try to use it earlier in the fight since you still take damage. If you use it when you have 200 morale left, you may still die. The key is to plan ahead. If you pull 4 white mobs and know you are in for a fight, use it earlier.
- Don't forget about deep breath!! If you used Warrior's heart as a self heal and then guardian's pledge, but still have a ways to go, use deep breath AFTER the effects of those skills have worn off and then you can use them again!
- Use pots earlier in the fight if you can foresee a tough battle. If it last long enough you might be able to use them again.
- Don't underestimate bleeds, but don't forget that overwhelm will stun on a crit. Not only nice damage, but one less mob attacking you. I believe To the King will also knockout your opponent even if you aren't in a fellowship (no FM will generate though).

I'm thinking as a level capped guardian, though, so if you are struggling and are lower level, it will get better. Try to have the highest DPS 2H weapon while in OP. Don't neglect agility as it will increase crits and will increase evade.