Twenty Questions with the LOTRO Dev Team - July 2013

[Fredelas]

Regarding randomness, how does the team decide what types of rewards should be random and which should have a predictable path? (The same question might also apply to other game mechanics besides loot, such as combat abilities, scripted encounters, crafting, or even gaining fishing skill points.)

Randomness can be especially fun when you're lucky, and extremely demoralizing when you're unlucky. On the other hand, predictability is reassuring for some long term goals, but can start to feel like work for others. Is there a magic number where the two balance out?

[stewbeef]

I just want to say as a long time former NWN1/2/6 expansions/onlineforever player that it is nice to see you making in-game dev efforts even if it is only occasional. You also do a great job of keeping us included in the growth of the game.

I downloaded and tried the MMO Neverwinter. I played the beta. I was back here in 2 weeks shaking my head.

This is still closer to NWN in my book and I am looking forward to HD and the Housing revamps. Thank you.

[Witch0King]

Q1: Are there ever going to be plans to do single server dev fun nights, for instance like the end of beta's where you guys release Balrogs in bree or Thorog in Rivendell? How about Sauraman in the Shire?

A1: We’ve recently (just yesterday) discussed the possibility of creating some live events with developer participation. We’re continuing to investigate what it would take to make this happen, but for now we’re focusing on the expansion pack.- Derek

Well I hope you guys go through with it, would be nice to re-use some characters from like SoA and so on. I find everyday questing a bit empty, if suddenly a balrog appeared in Evendim infront of me that would certainly be something to behold

Q7: It has been said before that adding a new Freep class isn't on the cards, but why is that so? Is there simply no feasible placement for a new class given the roles of current classes or is it more a case of prioritizing time, resources, etc?

A7: Creating a class from scratch is a big endeavor. Our current class revamps should, in theory, have several beneficial byproducts. First, we are cleaning them up, top-to-bottom. They will be more rewarding and builds will be more defined. They will also be easier for us to maintain. While I can’t say that a new class is in the works (there isn’t) the revamp will make it a lot easier to consider one in the future. - Zimmitti

I certainly can't come up with a new class however there have been suggestions and one excellent creep class suggestion has been made. It would be pretty cool if you guys added that, like a gift for the players who have requested it.

Q8: What is the future looking like for pvp? Is it basically a done deal for Turbine with no future? Is it considered a burden that they just want removed from the game? Or is it something they would like to revive and try to make better? Are the couple PVP only council members basically wasting their time with trying to work on pvp stuff?


A8: We don't have any serious big features planned for PvMP in the near term. We've got time booked to rebalance things to accommodate the Freep class changes and we've got a few ideas that might be interesting... or really may not happen.
The systems changes we are putting big effort into right now on the freep side are focused and challenging. If I were to shake up PvP while trying to get everything else balanced, I assure you everything would suffer. – HoarseDev.

Well I hope you take a look at how the creeps fare right after the freep changes are introduced. I already find myself blown apart by freeps with them barely even trying at all. And it would be very kind of you to bring audacity down to 7 again

Q10: Do you have plans to extend the music system with a (or more than one) new instrument?

A10: Revisiting the music system or adding on to the number of instruments isn’t in our upcoming plans. - Derek

I feel the music is a huge part of what makes LOTRO so unique so it should be in the upcoming plans

Q16: Given player concerns about the license and Turbine's relationship with Saul Zaentz/Middle-earth Enterprises, can you say anything about LOTRO ending in 2014 as some have predicted?

A16: We plan to support LOTRO for many more years to come. We are very fortunate in that we enjoy a great relationship with Middle-earth Enterprises. They visit our offices several times a year to check out our upcoming plans for LOTRO and continue to be very supportive. - Sapience

It is very nice to see that the game will go on because I doubt another MMO of LOTR will ever come. And this one is already good enough

Q17: To satisfy curiosity would it be possible to find out what the new PvMP region that was going to ship with RoI was going to be?
A:17 I can't go into crazy detail but some of the things kicked around were smaller, more focused spaces with specific objectives. Think skirmishes, but bigger and with both Freeps and Creeps competing for conflicting objectives. Several were on the table. They never really quite worked out. In terms of locales, Redhorn Lodes, Amon Lhaw and a spot in the Blue Mountains were in the works. - HoarseDev

I actually think its great just to have one zone, if we had multiple, people would be too spread. Someone took a OP there and someone there and it would make it far much worse IMO.

[Cassie4486]

Those kinds of events can create quite the excitement and be a nice diversion from the routine. I remember one day when Trestlebridge was overrun by Orcs and all the townspeople gone and we had fun trying to liberate Trestlebridge from the enemy. Another fun time was when Amarthiel for a couple of weeks randomly appeared in various places without notice. Since these things caused so much excitement in the player base and were talked about for weeks and months afterwards as one of the highlights of the game, I have always remained baffled as to why these things don't take place at least once or twice a year. But outside of Beta, I can't think of anything similar to the Amarthiel event since the Amarthiel event and that was about 5 years ago now.

I think this would be so cool!

Though...I think it would be fun if the Devs became Creeps & attempted to take over Bree-town & the rest of us have to fight them for the town survival. Then whoever dies, just rezzes back to the circle right there over the bridge outside Bree-Gates.

Just something cool & campy! Though it would be cool to see Sarumon creeping around or a Nazgul flying about. Those events would be really neat!

[matalan]

Q2: Are there any plans to change the RNG? I know a lot of people are beyond frustrated at it, as it doesn’t seem as random for some as it does for others.

A2: We have no plans to update the random number generator (RNG). It’s normal for individuals to receive runs of luck (good or bad) in the short term. The random element of the game, may appear to be broken, but the RNG is running for the entire server instance, not for one player at a time. - Nathan

Felt compelled to add my opinion as I feel quite strongly about it... I've said it before and I'll say it here, RNG is never going to be welcomed as much as a barter system.

RNGs at the end of the day mathematically end up like a 'bell curve' - or at least they should! FEW people will be very unlucky, MOST people will sit in the middle with average luck, and again FEW people will be very lucky. So yes, some peeps WILL get streaks of bad and good luck depending where they get placed on that curve on each unique event.

BUT - It is obvious that a number of players are seeing absolutely NO gold class items after a crazy amount of runs, where as some players are getting spare gold items that end up as trash. Now, these players 'could' be sitting right at one of either end of the bell curve, but that's like being a statistical freak, and not very fair!

The quote above says the RNG runs for the whole server instance and not one player at a time.... can we get clarification on that process? Are you saying every player is always treated equally in regards to giving loot?

If RNG is to continue - even if it works 'perfectly' - some people are going to end up having to run a silly amount of content to get gear due simply to 'bad luck' and that has left a sour taste in many a players mouth. A few kinnies are unhappy with how grindy it feels, a couple have even left the game as aquiring top loot just seems so lottery based.

As I have suggested before why not just use a barter system? I know you don't like adding barter currencies to the game etc etc, but it would solve a lot of the grumbles and make things totally even across the player-base.

Take sigil fragments from RoI at lvl 75 - you could run various content and upon deconstructing the fragments you would get a certain number of sigil fragments. These were then saved up and barted for gear at the Ox Clan Camp. This worked great IMHO!! You knew exactly where you were, how many you needed, and there was motivation to do stuff on T2C etc to get more fragments per run.

If you want to make gold class items SUPER rare you could just set the price at on average X number of runs of given instance cluster... at least then EVERYONE IS DEFINITELY TREATED EQUALLY. The system could even run alongside RNG loot, so you can make a CHOICE to take your chances to get it 'quick and free', or to earn the barter currency for a guaranteed piece

Win all round I say!


Thanks for listening, hope my feedback helps

[Barruktp]

The main thing I'm not seeing addressed are ways to get people to group more. The instance finder feature was an obvious failure and I'm sure the LOTRO devs have been benchmarking other MMO's for features. In fact I know they have because the riding skill trees and they way landscape quests now implement are almost direct lifts from other games.

The threshold for more sustained, interesting, group content from my experience are not either the incentives or the player skill level. Players who spend time grouping will eventually grow in skill, 'tis not a matter of "you either have it or you don't". The current disincentive to group is purely about lack of convience around forming parties/fellowships. Speaking as someone who has been in half a dozen kins across three servers since launch, even being in a kin doesn't guarantee you good grouping. A large kin usually means that there is one elite group who monopolizes the kin's time and resources for raiding and instances, and if you are not in that bleeding edge you are out of luck. And a small kin means that it is little better than soloing since there will not be enough people on to support the content.

So what, if anything, does the future hold for this? I can't believe that it will be solos instances from here on out... And glff is hardly anyone's idea of an effective grouping mechanism.

More information on any upcoming/planned/in work features to facilitate group play would be most welcome.

[SilverCentaur]

^^^ (Q2) what has been said above is exactly what many many players on Elendilmir have said. People being able to put time and energy into getting a FA symbol has been good for the game. Having that run alongside random drops is excellent. Class specific gear running along the same lines would also be good. It would be a great reason for us to visit our trainers again. Also, why not make that gear available starting at a certain lvl and not just for 85s and scale it? That way if someone loves Moria they can disable lvling and play in Moria with gold guardian gear. Just our thoughts, but I think listening to the players when there is nearly unanimous consent that just having RNG is not working is a wise thing to do.

[Elexicon]

Lua is a developer 'pet project'. It has never been an officially supported aspect of the game. Those devs involved work on it in their own free time.

For a casual kin which has many members but where few of us may be on at one time... having a better KIN interface would be outstanding. Lacking that, a better LUA interface would enable those of us who are programmers IRL... to set up a way for us not to depend on the in-game mail system.

[Lohi]

The RNG is fine how it is and doesn't need to be changed, I agree, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a system ADDED to help those of us that are unlucky but very dedicated towards optimizing our gear slots.

I agree. People in general don't understand randomness or probability. If they did then casinos would not be a viable business. So what I think might be acceptable is a system that is NOT random but which feels random. Ie, if the chance to crit is 25%, then it would artificially make sure that you can never get a string of 6 losses in a row. Not at all random but it feels like what the average person thinks is random.

The other solution is to discard the randomness or preception of randomness completely. No more crit vs non-crit for example. A lot of games do this. But that's a much bigger change overall, upending what a lot of people expect here, tossing out the current (broken) economy), etc.

[Lohi]

That does not say that the license extension has been signed with an external party. If it was they would say so.

But they can't sign it now since the current license is not about to expire. It will be signed later when it's time to do so.

[This has happened before and it will happen again. -- The Time Prophet]

[welden]

It a very straight foward answer. We can neither support nor develop the game without a license. We will be doing so for many more years. Not a single bit of vagueness there.

Then why not just come out and say "We have extended the license for Lotro for (x) years"???

It seems to me that your answer is worded in such a way as to say something without saying too much? Almost as if there is more to the answer to Q16 than can be stated at this time???

Not complaining just making an observation

Welden

[Lohi]

Then why not just come out and say "We have extended the license for Lotro for (x) years"???

Probably because they have not actually extended the license. That is not a bad thing. Too many players seem to think that until it is signed next year that everything is in a highly uncertain state. It's presumably not time to renew the license. I also don't think it's a worry that the legal team is going to forget to do the paperwork.

With a contract you don't renew ahead of time unless you want to renegotiate the terms of the contract. A license agreement is a contract of a sort, so similarly there's no reason to renew it too far in advance of the current agreement expiring. I imagine that if Turbine's legal team called up Middle Earth Enterprises today and asked for a renewal that there would a lot of confusion about why this was being done now and what was wrong with the current license.

The only problem here was some web site that used a provocative title to one of their stories which has fanned the flames of rumor.

[Seedly]

To tag on with Lohi, if Turbine is in negotiations and comments to the fan base along your terms it puts them in a hell of a pickle from a negotiating standpoint.

Im not saying that MEE would use that information to take advantage of Turbine, but in ANY negotiation (hostile or friendly), you do better to closely guard information than give it out willy-nilly.

I wouldnt expect those talks to close until 2014 Q2 at the earliest. Who knows, WB-Entertainment may be going after an omnibus license that covers all their subsidiaries and not seperate licenses for Turbine and the WB studio. That would take much longer than just licensing Turbine to continue LOTRO.

[Hiritier]

I agreed that there need to be a barter system beside the RNG. Just like the treasure even reward. You can get the goat from RNG site, but also, with every site you dug, a little closer to the bartered goat. Some people said about "fair", but how it could be fair if someone just run an instance 1-2 times and got the best in slot item, while other ran it few hundreds times and nothing return.

[Tarlywyn]

Sapience just answered my question of Twitter if LotRO will continue after 2014 (or, if they basically have the go from MEE):

Need a bit of clarification. In the Q&A it says "We plan to support", in one of your posts you say "we will be doing so".. Does this mean that LotRO will exist after 2014 for sure?

Yes. Its very clear.

It appears the intention is to continue for at least a few more years - I look forward to seeing more of Middle Earth

[IttleBubba]

"Q1: Are there ever going to be plans to do single server dev fun nights, for instance like the end of beta's where you guys release Balrogs in bree or Thorog in Rivendell? How about Sauraman in the Shire?

A1: We’ve recently (just yesterday) discussed the possibility of creating some live events with developer participation. We’re continuing to investigate what it would take to make this happen, but for now we’re focusing on the expansion pack.- Derek"

I missed the above events and would love to see one of these. I used to enjoy the Ultima Online (Yessum old, young folks!) invasions by various enemies. I'd love to see something like this on a less ridiculous scale than UO used to do.

P.S. Thank you for the 20 questions. I'm really enjoying these each month.

-Poppinpip of Meneldor.
[Lvl 85 Scamper Skill] Equipped

[Captaculous]

Sapience,

Can you confirm that the loot tables are fixed and equal probabilities for all players and are not influenced by factors such as:
1. Length of time since toon was last logged into/used (toons coming out of retirement or are little used seem to get gold items more often)
2. Relative strength of equipment (poorly equipped fellowship members seem to get gold items more often)
3. How often an instance is run (example: are Iobar's Peak, Seat of the Great Goblin, and Webs of the Skuttledells equal in chance of dropping a gold though they vary wildly in popularity)
4. The Horseshoe (is it a real factor?)

Also, is it possible to tell us for a given cluster (like In There Absence where there is only one gold) that the % chance of a gold item dropping is greater in a Raid vs a Full Fellowship vs a Small Fellowship (assuming all are done on T2 Challenge Mode) or are they all equal in probability?

I look forward to your response.

P.S. Bonus points will be award if the actual % chance of dropping can be revealed

[Tarlywyn]

Q20: Why can't we mail more than one item at a time? How hard is it to change this?
A20: This has come up for discussion several times. It’s difficult to concretely answer a question like “how hard is it to…”, but suffice to say this is more than a few days of work – “bigger than a breadbox”, as we like to say. - Nathan

Personally I can live with posting on thing at a time, tho it could save a little time. However something along similar lines was brought up in a previous Q&A about allowing mutiple relic melding - the dev indicated it was a good idea (from what I recall). Has this been given further attention?

[Prorsum]

They've got the wool.

You have the eyes.

[Whart]

Also, what is your stance on kins that actively encourage their members to make f2p accounts for the sole purpose of occupying all the available housing space on the server (i.e. making an f2p account to create fake kins of players that don't actually play and kins that don't actually do anything but purchase kin houses for the use of already existing kins)? I personally think it's unfair to players who might have legitimate kins with an interest in occupying kin houses for a real reason, but does Turbine think that making fake kins for closet space for kins that are considered 'special' is fair and reasonable to average players?

[whosjgalt]

Those kinds of events can create quite the excitement and be a nice diversion from the routine. I remember one day when Trestlebridge was overrun by Orcs and all the townspeople gone and we had fun trying to liberate Trestlebridge from the enemy. Another fun time was when Amarthiel for a couple of weeks randomly appeared in various places without notice. Since these things caused so much excitement in the player base and were talked about for weeks and months afterwards as one of the highlights of the game, I have always remained baffled as to why these things don't take place at least once or twice a year. But outside of Beta, I can't think of anything similar to the Amarthiel event since the Amarthiel event and that was about 5 years ago now.

Karoake: Great points, I still have my photos of a beta event stress test of a Hobbit TROLL in the Moors surrounded by hundreds of players trying to kill him. Extraordinary events could easily add awesome excitement to our beloved Middle Earth, and I for one, would welcome them.

[Erroneous']

Lua is a developer 'pet project'. It has never been an officially supported aspect of the game. Those devs involved work on it in their own free time.

Maybe the question should be, Why is it not officially supported yet? There are some great mod and UI writers out there, many who are frustrated with the lack of support and have stopped developing. Each patch seems to bring one less person who updates their skin because of the consistent bugs. Are we ever going to get official support for Lua?

[casa]

Is there ever going to be a deed credit for players that have been playing the game for a long time. I've done the whole instance before the Great Barrows got split up into 5 separate parts but i seem to be still missing a couple of deeds because you keep raising the level of it to cap.

[Aineas.]

bit sad to read that all lag improvements are being pushed back with HD update. Since improvement is a biggie atm, I would've loved to see more improvements in the near future (say like next week or so). I jump to conclusions here, but the way it's phrased it's kinda like: lets say next update with HD so we keep the folks happy. I hope you all do realise that a game thats underperforming is definitely a game people will leave. Lotro is already known as lagtro, pvp is a disaster lag-wise... it's gotten a bit better with u11, but with last weeks maintanance performance gone down again. People dc'ing several times during instances etc is just no where near fun. since with every update more data gets thrown out there, I do hope you realise past few year with every update it has gotten worse and worse. I hope you finally will actually do something other then the same story I've been seeing for years: it's continuesly monitored and hoping to improve it next update sometimes this actually means: ye, we know about it but have no clue about how to fix it or don't want to put the money in to solve it :P I hope this ain't the case, but your actions will say enough on this matter

[Rainothon]

Glad to read your new monitoring tools are working out and putting you on possible tracks towards improvement of mounted combat rubberbanding. I've said it before and I'll say it again: riding your war steed at full throttle without rubberbanding is nothing short of amazing. It reminds me of Wing Commander. Anywhere you can get closer to that is good.

Glad to read working relationships with ME enterprises are healthy and have been so for years. Though it's not anywhere near a definite answer as an official announcement of extension, it's encouraging to read.

About the RNG question. I agree the RNG itself is fine. It's the system of loot distribution that has this major drawback for anyone who makes 'getting the gold items' their goal. It's unreliable. And working towards something knowing you have no real influence on save making as many draws as possible is highly demotivating. I therefore recommend anyone NOT to make getting the gold items their goal. Pick a goal that you can actually work towards with tangible progress even if it's slow. Consider the gold items the 'jackpot' that will likely not happen to you. I'm sure you've heard this feedback before and I hope to see it considered in Helms Deep.