20 Questions – Big Battles

[Whart]

Okay 1st thing wrong here, anyone NOT at their level cap won't know how to play their class to the full extent therefore this auto scale is horrible idea. I know plenty of current capped lvl 85s who don't know how to play their class, they won't contribute very much at all it will be like my Kin taking a fresh lv85 into a T2 Raid, they'll die right away until the whole fight is over.

2nd. Re think this whole method over PLEASE.

I think as long as we know the levels of the people we are inviting, people have the choice of which levels they are ok grouping with, and choice is good. If you want the quick, clean, efficient raid, go with folks you know who are level capped and meet your standards. If you have fun teaching newer players, are on a server where your selection options are limited, or want to bring along friends who are lower level than you, you have that option now.

Just because someone is on a lvl 10 alt, it doesn't mean they've never played that class before. People create alts of the same class for a number of reasons (rerolling on a new server being a common one). I have two level-capped hunters and several at lower levels because I like a variety of character types for rp, and hunter is what I play well. If I feel like bringing my lower level human hunter in because I feel ridiculous playing as a hobbit at Helm's Deep, I can do so and still have a very good idea of how to play a raid hunter.

[jwbarry]

Will these medal thingummies be BoA or account bound? Just wondering if we'll see a horde of sacrificial lvl 10 accounts created just to spam medals for the "main" characters, should locks/timers be introduced.

A medal is a representation of how well you did on a quest. Thus it is not a physical material object and instead more of a badge or grade type concept. This means they are tied specifically to the character that played the big battle and completed the quest.

[ShireDweller]

One thing I'm very worried about with these instances being useable by lvl 10 characters, is how little functionality a lvl 10 character has, and what that means can be included in the instances. a level 10 character will have no way to deal with corruptions, or interrupts, and most will not have 'bread and butter' skills for the class that are earned at higher levels and shape what they are capable of. It seems positively daunting to create an instance where both a player with lvl 10 functionality can contribute and complete objectives and at the same time a lvl 95 character will be challenged to use all the skills at their disposal.

To me this seems like a good compromise in letting new players see the new expansion content right away without trivializing the time and effort that true level-capped players have put into their characters.

I would expect my scaled level 10 to be of not much use in a giant battle, maybe slow down one opponent for a few seconds, or defend one small area of turf for a very short time, and have much less way of defending myself than someone who is truly level 95. Their relative contributions are going to be very very different.

[SNy-lotrolinux-EU]

So, regarding the lottery loot system and a possible clarification as hinted to in July Q/A 19 (and, especially, AGAIN, wrt. to the discussion of July non-question Q2), we can not expect ANYTHING to be done to the b0rked system until next year?

Please understand that this is becoming a major point of frustration for a lot of players and proper consideration of alternatives to the (again: debatable) "pure" randomness would be VERY much appreciated in the rather short term.

SNy

[EyeSlayer600]

Short of everyone being invited to the beta before pre-purchasing, it would be nice to have some form of 'performance test' app to allow us to get an idea of how our specific system will handle the expected demands before purchasing.

That might be able to be done with something like http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/cyri. It's a pretty useful tool to see if you can run it.

[Frieja]

This sounds like a very interesting mechanic. I could see it used for Pellenor Fields, and also the battles at Erebor, Lothlorien, and the Black Gate.

I absolutely LOVE the idea of everyone being able to play together regardless of level; however it poses the question of skill set. A level 10 character only has a handful of skills and no class traits or virtues. How is a level 10 Minstrel supposed to heal with only Raise the Spirit available? Even if it is a level 95 RtS?

[RavnDottir]

Picture this:

I just found out about LoTRO and I am anxious to give it a try. I heard there is a new expansion coming out and it will involve the Helm's Deep battle.
This is just what I am hoping to get into!
So, I try out the game with a FTP account.
I soon realize it is going to take me months (maybe years) to get to the level cap.
If I need a L85 character to get into Helm's Deep, why should I buy the Helm's Deep expansion since I won't be able to even taste it for ages?

I agree ..
How about something like this ...

Wow, I just got into this, I am having fun with my new kin.
I know I have quite a bit of content to enjoy while I work my way up to Helm's Deep,
BUT, I can still do this Big Battle content with my new friends & learn to play in groups with people who REALLY KNOW how to play.

This is the best entertainment investment I have made in quite awhile !
I am getting the best of both worlds .. WOOT !!

Wyllo

[Hoppilthen]

I am thrilled about the prospect of Helm's Deep. Ever since I read the trilogy I have craved the chance to stand atop the walls of the fortress to face the hordes and have been waiting for an FRP system or a computerized game to give me the chance to do it.

One comment or recommendation that I would make in the scope of a larger battle is to NOT allow people/NPC's to pass through one another. Holding a wall or a gateway or a door becomes meaningless if an orc can just run right through me. I recognize that it might create somewhat of a nightmare from a programming/calculation standpoint but I believe the realism added is a necessity for larger battles. Otherwise 100 orcs can all occupy a tiny space and pound their way through anything. People/mobs need to occupy groundspace at a minimum...

Thanks and I cannot wait!

Hoppilthen (lvl 85 warden - Dwarrowdelf)

[TheREALify]

Does this mean that top-tier armor will again be gated by group content and will no longer be available to solo players?

[spelunker]

A level x quest doesn't compete with how much xp a skirmish would give out. And it sounds like this may take anywhere from as long as skirmishes to even longer, so why would we get xp as if we completed a quest (which is less xp than a skirmish)?

I think that was just a rough example, to clarify that xp received will be based on the characters actual level, not lvl 95. Turbine wouldn't be foolish enough to make a 30 minute instance worth the same xp as killing a couple wolves in the shire, right?

A medal is a representation of how well you did on a quest. Thus it is not a physical material object and instead more of a badge or grade type concept. This means they are tied specifically to the character that played the big battle and completed the quest.

So HD big battles will use the same RNG looting system as all the current scaled instances? great....


Also still looking for clarification on whether the medals and rewards available to a player in the solo big battles will be the same as those participating in the raid versions, and everything in between.

[Isy]

A fab 20 questions with some great, detailed, spolilery answers - thank you! BBs sounds almost like a hybrid of skirmishes and a raid. Will be intrigued to see how it plays out. Excited to see epic line and the "big battles" will be blended for some storytelling as this worked so nicely with skirmishes and Mirkwood.

On suggested names, I think I would prefer "Epic Battles" than the slightly un-epic title of "Big Battles"

[angrolas]

I have to give Turbine some props here. It sounds like they genuinely tried to please all playing styles, instead of catering to just one specific as they have had in the past few expansions. My one fear is that there will be hundreds of orcs around us, yet only a few of them will be able to be attacked. Or it will be like some of the quest line instances that we have in game where only 3-4 orcs attack at a time. If there are hundreds of orcs, then they all should be attacking at once. Then again, they are calling this a BIG battle, so it must be different.

[JoNNe]

At first I have to appreciate Turbine as a Tolkien fan how well you have honoured, benefit and structure the lore Tolkien described in his books while creating LOTRO!

However, in Battle of Helm´s Deep, there is ONLY ONE DWARF and ONLY ONE ELF in books.
In LOTRO, as far as I understood the thing right, players will bring their own characters for battle and so there will be lot more dwarves and elves than the lore claims, I´m not offended, though .

How did you manage this if we just think about the lore?

[ColorSpecs]

If I'm level 10 and I'm talking to Gandalf in the prancing pony, how can I in an eyeblink be fighting in Helm's Deep? Its bad enough we have no conception of space anymore, just instance joining to and fro. Now we have no tether to time either?

[HunterGreen]

Q9: What are the differences between Big Battles & Traditional Raids?

Traditional Raids and Instance content focuses on the player and his group versus the boss and enemies. The primary goal and direct focus of both sides is purely to kill the other. In the Battle for Helm’s Deep the enemies goal is to tear down the walls, destroy the fortress, and slaughter everyone within. It is the complete and utter destruction of Rohan. The players are another enemy on the wall that need to be killed along the way, not the primary focus of the enemies efforts.
Within traditional raids all players are focused on the boss and any adds. This typically happens with everyone being bunched up together in the same 20 square meters and the majority of players attacking the same target. The Battle for Helm’s Deep requires groups to work together, communicate and coordinate at a larger strategic and tactical level. To find the greatest success and reward, the group will have to split up and be in several locations across Helm’s Deep dealing with multiple goals and a variety of challenges, yet still all be working together and coordinating on the larger objectives.

This in particular sounds very exciting to me. I have gotten a little tired of the standard MMO model of "kill trash; repeat; kill adds; kill boss". Having experimented a bit with other MMOs I have seen how great a job LotRO has done of adding some variety to this formula thus far, but this sounds like it promises to take that variety to a new level and make the challenge a lot more than a rehash of the boss-fight, stand-your-ground, or other tried-and-true/worn-out (depending on your viewpoint) format.

I'm sure some people will be upset with a change just as they were with mounted combat being another somewhat "new" thing, but the thing they need to remember is nothing's being taken away. All those raids they do now are still there. (Admittedly, they're justifiably upset that dev resources aren't being put into putting new chrome onto the old formula, in the form of new raids that are just like the old raids but different. I am sympathetic to that, and yet, not so sympathetic. They already have 95% of the MMO world catering to them, and I don't mind that much if we reduce that to 93% by adding something new to the world.)

Surprised there wasn't a question about the "how can my hobbit be at a battle that Tolkien explicitly said didn't have hobbits at it" issue. I'm kind of hoping, as dearly as I love the lore, that Turbine's answer is going to be "look, something shiny over there!" -- that is, allowing us to suspend disbelief and getting past it, maybe making a forum dedicated to people grousing about it -- much the way the answer to "why are there hobbits outside the Shire and Bree-land" is "good question, and would you like some pie?" But who knows. Maybe they've got some brilliant and satisfactory answer to that, too.

[Thaar]

Q3: Can a level 10 character group with a level 95 character in a Battle?
Q4: How can a level 10 character hope to contribute successfully to the Battle?

The Battle for Helm’s Deep utilizes a new feature called Character Upscaling. When you join an instance in the Battle for Helm’s Deep we scale your character’s stats and skills to level 95. Your equipment is scaled as well, with the level differential between you and the equipment being maintained through the upscaling.
With everyone now being the same level, 95, groups can be assembled from anyone on the server available to play. While an upscaled 95 will be less powerful than a true 95, through the Medals system they will still be able to meaningfully contribute.

Is the new feature "Character Upscaling" exclusive to Big Battles technology or can we expect to see it anywhere else in the future ?

[EmyrSelyf]

If I'm level 10 and I'm talking to Gandalf in the prancing pony, how can I in an eyeblink be fighting in Helm's Deep? Its bad enough we have no conception of space anymore, just instance joining to and fro. Now we have no tether to time either?

A dream of things yet to come?

Perhaps you fell and hit your head on one of those low-hanging beams.

[Maxal]

As for how well it will work with a lvl 10 playing with a bunch of lvl 85 to 95, we will have to wait and see. I have a feeling my main may just have to try big battles at 85 on day one. Then I will worry about the race to 95. Just so different from how we all level now. Xpac release we all race to cap then start preparing for end game. Now the end game sounds like it will be available right away. Very cool.

For me I am excited about this as I have three toons that have never been able to raid. Two are capped but never had the gear, virtues or all the class skills completed to be really useful in a raid. The third is 62 right now so a long way from being able to raid. So now I will be able to take my cappy, rk and burg into the end game and make a contribution right away. Maybe not as much as I would as a fully geared 95, but I think I will be able to add something to the raid. I might just start being a raid leader again and do a lot more pugs with low level toons to help them understand their character skills and abilities at end game when they reach it.

As for what we get for the medals? IDK. But I am going to guess it will be something along the lines of the RoR raid barter system. After you finished all the raids in T1 you could barter for raid gear set and a 1st age symbol. When you finished all the Raids on T2 you could barter for a better raid gear set and get 1st age symbols at a lower cost. All T2C completed, even a lower cost for the symbol. Do not remember a 3er level of raid gear, but could be mistaken.

My guess, is that after you complete the Big Battles with at least Medal level of X it will open up a new barter vender.
Complete them all with Medal Y you open up new barter NPC
etc.
etc
etc for how ever many levels of medals there are.

Sounds like a great idea and I am looking forward to seeing it in action.

[Patrickwg]

Do not forget all of the classes are getting major revamp with HD. So a level 10 right now may be very different from a HD level 10.

[spelunker]

I have to give Turbine some props here. It sounds like they genuinely tried to please all playing styles, instead of catering to just one specific as they have had in the past few expansions. My one fear is that there will be hundreds of orcs around us, yet only a few of them will be able to be attacked. Or it will be like some of the quest line instances that we have in game where only 3-4 orcs attack at a time. If there are hundreds of orcs, then they all should be attacking at once. Then again, they are calling this a BIG battle, so it must be different.

Unless the class revamps are able to more effectively put different classes on a level playing field in terms of capacity, I don't think this is going to actually please all playing styles so much as leave a lot of different playing styles feeling let down.

Do you remember the epic quest line where we aided Theodred in attacking Isengard (and subsequently aiding his retreat)? If Big Battles are anything like this, the whole system is going to be a pretty big flop. All this talk of new tech and designs has me optimistic this won't be the case though.

[Menathradon]

I'm assuming lvl 10s will be allowed more points to spend on their SKILL TREES. Remember that folks? SKILL TREES. So I'm sure the lack of skills at lvl 10 can easily be fixed upon entering big battles with high levels... Think GW2.

As far as skill... Someone posted that lvl 10s won't have much knowledge of their class, then says they know lvl 85s that don't know how to play.... So what's the difference???

You have to have this " auto lvl cap" or new players won't have a reason to purchase Rohan. Or they'd have to lvl to 95 to play with everyone? That would take a while.......
And I highly doubt it would attract new players..... $$$$$$$$$

This has a lot of potential, just please don't let it be buggy...

[zalladi]

Does this mean that top-tier armor will again be gated by group content and will no longer be available to solo players?

Notice how they stated the battle can be made for a solo run, and all the way up to a 12-man raid.

[Crell_1]

Are there any plans for traditional Instanced group content (especially raids) set in Western Rohan or are Big-Battles strictly what we're expecting for this expansion. (Both at launch, and as part of our region purchase, even if delayed)

I'd expect them to come after launch, given that JWB seems to be the designer on this 'Big Battles' tech.


Are any of the 'Big Battles' Spaces going to involve the use of mounted combat?

[Ellieni]

Do these Big Battles work like a Guid Wars 2 World event, in that we have no control when they start? Or do we start them up like we would an instance?

Also, any idea when we can pre-order? I can't wait. So excited.

[Crell_1]

Notice how they stated the battle can be made for a solo run, and all the way up to a 12-man raid.

Notice how they said 'Select spaces' will have 3/6/12 man versions. I suspect all spaces will have a solo mode, and only some of them will have 'group modes' made for them =/