20 Questions – Big Battles

[Crell_1]

My biggest issue with the level scaling is will players get all the skills they would have by level 95 or will they keep what they have got. Just imagine you use the instance finder (I know almost no one uses it but just for a moment imagine they do), and you get a level 10 mini as your healer but they only have the skills for level 10, then they are worse than useless.

Per +JWB:Players will get no new skills, traits, or trait points in the upscaling process.

Perhaps thats a good incentive for the IF to prefer players of a naturally similar level rather than throwing everyone into one huge queue.

[PKCrichton]

My biggest issue with the level scaling is will players get all the skills they would have by level 95 or will they keep what they have got. Just imagine you use the instance finder (I know almost no one uses it but just for a moment imagine they do), and you get a level 10 mini as your healer but they only have the skills for level 10, then they are worse than useless.

It has already been stated further up by JWBerry that upscaled characters won't get the skills/traits they haven't earned yet. There will be scaling involved but we haven't been told what that will be aka if the skills they have will be stronger, have shorter cds or what.

[RavnDottir]

My biggest issue with the level scaling is will players get all the skills they would have by level 95 or will they keep what they have got. Just imagine you use the instance finder (I know almost no one uses it but just for a moment imagine they do), and you get a level 10 mini as your healer but they only have the skills for level 10, then they are worse than useless.

I don't know how many healer skills would ultimately help in the battle of helms' deep .. as it was, the free people of middle earth barely survived

[spelunker]

No. It means their existing gear would be scaled up to have level 95 stats. Not be be some other level 95 gear. A true level 95 character, item, or gear, will be better than a scaled item from a lower level.

Lets use a simple example: My fully decked out warden at the end of RoI (lvl 75) had first agers, capped mitigations, 20% incoming healing, and nearly capped b/p/e ratings (with buffs, of course). At 85, my warden has first agers, capped mitigations, ~20% incoming healing, and nearly capped b/p/e ratings (with buffs, of course). My warden at 85 is no more or less statistically potent than my old lvl 75. If gear at lvl 95 allows me to max out all of these stats to a similar degree, will there be any reason I couldn't dust off my old 75 warden and be equally effective as a scaled 95, besides the potential bonuses on lvl 95 gear?

[jwbarry]

I'll try and put it a different way. Does the scaling only look at the item's ilvl, or does it take into account anything else about it such as 'age' or its ilvl relative to player level (a player wearing say, gear with an ilvl quality above their current level generally acquired it by doing challenging content be it a raid, or a 'Red Quest'.)

Level differential with character is maintained. So, if you are level 10 using a level 7 sword, when you're upscaled to 95 the sword is treated as if it were 92.

You can see as the game has advanced that higher level gear has not just higher stats on it, but more stats. A level 20 sword may only give might, while a level 40 may give 2 stats, and a cap level one 4. We are not adding stats to compensate for that, we're just scaling the existing ones. This means the level 95 one will always inherently be better than the level 10 one scaled to 95.

[Eartholloth]

I literally just answered the housing thing not 2 seconds ago in the housing area. Short version, housing is slated for this year, not specifically Helm's Deep. Though you may see some first steps release along side the expansion.

If I had seen that post before I had made the post I wouldn't have asked.

[PKCrichton]

Level differential with character is maintained. So, if you are level 10 using a level 7 sword, when you're upscaled to 95 the sword is treated as if it were 92.

You can see as the game has advanced that higher level gear has not just higher stats on it, but more stats. A level 20 sword may only give might, while a level 40 may give 2 stats, and a cap level one 4. We are not adding stats to compensate for that, we're just scaling the existing ones. This means the level 95 one will always inherently be better than the level 10 one scaled to 95.

With this example that would mean that a level 60 using 1st ages would in essence with LIs at least have a stronger weapon than a level 95 using a 95 2nd age or 85 1st age. The only real difference would be in the relics one could place on the LI.

[Sapience]

If I had seen that post before I had made the post I wouldn't have asked.

Oh I know, I was just amused.

[Crell_1]

Level differential with character is maintained. So, if you are level 10 using a level 7 sword, when you're upscaled to 95 the sword is treated as if it were 92..

My question actually is about the reverse.

I'll try to clarify with an example:

A level 10 character using a level 15 quest-reward sword for example.Will it be naturally better than other scaled L10 swords? Will it just be scaled just like any other L15 sword?

What about Item quality? (grey/yellow/teal/gold)

Certainly a L10 teal should have some kind of difference to a L10-yellow or even Grey item when upscaled.

Similiarly

A L60 character uses an L60 FA, while a L65 character is in 2As.

What will be the differences in their scaled L95 DPS values applied? Is the L60 character better off from a raw numbers stand point?

[Yulin-Gladden]

..A level 10 character using a level 15 quest-reward sword for example....

Um, unless I'm missing something, how would a lvl 10 toon use a lvl 15 sword? They can't, by definition - you'd never have any over your level.

I'm not missing something, am I?

[Crell_1]

Um, unless I'm missing something, how would a lvl 10 toon use a lvl 15 sword? They can't, by definition - you'd never have any over your level.

I'm not missing something, am I?

You can do most quests at 5 levels above your current level. (Another way of looking at this is at the quest's stated challenge level -5 )

The stats of the item in question are based on the challenge level of the content it is obtained from.

[PKCrichton]

Um, unless I'm missing something, how would a lvl 10 toon use a lvl 15 sword? They can't, by definition - you'd never have any over your level.

I'm not missing something, am I?

They can if its a quest reward without an inherent level of its own associated with it. That creates a problem really since those items don't have an inherent level associated with them how would they be judged when scaling?

[twittfounder]

Could you say more about how "Big Battles" differ from skirmishes?

The skirmish system includes -- a solider (with multiple types and options), traits for them including ultimate traits and ultimates skills, a whole new type of mob -- the lieutenants, and encounter system, marks and medallions and a new mechanic to acquire gear was ALSO connected to it, etc. There are also different types of skirmishes with different objectives: offensive, defensive, and survival. It is a very robust mechanical system integrated into the epic line (Mirkwood...then eventually retrofitted for 2.5.5 Moria) in addition to OTHER skirmishes at launch.

Are there additional features or mechanics associated with "Big Battles" other than upscaling? Do they have Lieutenants or bosses? Are there optional "encounters" like skirmishes?


Another possible analog would be the Battle of Lorien (the oft-forgotten battle instance). And the various sentinel challenges, building up to the legendary sentinel challenge. Are the "big battles" more free-form and akin to something like the battle instances than skirmishes?

[Erlindur]

So, are we going to get the equivalent of a T2C for a solo big battle? And if yes, where are the rewards are going to be placed? Completely outside raid rewards, in raid quality solo gear or in a grindier path to the same gear?

[DobbelB_EU]

Um, unless I'm missing something, how would a lvl 10 toon use a lvl 15 sword? They can't, by definition - you'd never have any over your level.

I'm not missing something, am I?

Most quest rewards don't have a minimum level to use. A widespread example are the starter legandary items. They have lvl 50 stats, but can be gotten at level 45.

---------------------------

Now my own post:
This mechanic sounds intersting.
I had some more questions about the loot system, but I found the answers by rereading the questions and following the dev tracker.


Btw, a little suggestion: I liked the instance about Wulf's Cleft in Dunbog. That battle with 4 skirmish soldiers was epic.

[DutchEZmoder]

When i heard 'Big Battles' i imagined an open instance kind of experience where hundreds of people would fight against many monsters. But i guess 12 man instances won't be that bad to do a few times. My expectations are not so high this time, not after the latest Rohan instances. But you make it sound like you really worked hard on these 'Big Battles' this time so i'm pretty curious. Let's see.

[Sapience]

When i heard 'Big Battles' i imagined an open instance kind of experience where hundreds of people would fight against many monsters. But i guess 12 man instances won't be that bad to do a few times. My expectations are not so high this time, not after the latest Rohan instances. But you make it sound like you really worked hard on these 'Big Battles' this time so i'm pretty curious. Let's see.

If you recall, Helm's Deep was a small number of Rohirrim defending against thousands of Orcs. In this example, the big battle was one where they were hopelessly outnumbered.

[zalladi]

If you recall, Helm's Deep was a small number of Rohirrim defending against thousands of Orcs. In this example, the big battle was one where they were hopelessly outnumbered.

So would that suggest that there is a chance that other Big Battles, such as Pelennor Fields, could have large open-space battles? Or on-going instances people hop in and out of?

[davidbowman]

I'm getting an image of my mind of these BBs being something like Defence of Lorien. Like some posters before I only hope its challenging enough for L95s and not washed down so L10s can face roll it.

[flyf2012]

Will audacity (armour) still exist in the Moors?

[zalladi]

Will audacity (armour) still exist in the Moors?

Undoubtedly.

In fact, I reckon a new 'season' of audacity will start, making each piece of armour give +3.

[Enfiladed]

I'm sort of disappointed to see that Turbine is throwing all their eggs into the new basket of Big Battles. It could be the coolest feature ever, but it could also be a flop leaving us 6+ mos. without new content in the instance/raid system we all know and (mostly) love. It would've been nice had they done some sort of split with a big battle and then a few regular 6 mans and then followed up with another iteration of some sort of split later. It just seems like once again turbine is innovating or fixing something that just doesn't need it. Like I said, might be the sweetest thing ever once we see it but I can't help but worry and be disappointed at this point with no 'standard' instance/raid (which the game DESPERATELY needs ATM).

[Leixy]

in 2014, with the new gear scaling tech, I hope you consider adding de-scaling to the menu for older clusters like Angmar, etc... including landscape. that way the content can be left to its original intent and we can play the old regions with new players and friends as much as we'd like.

[PKCrichton]

I'm sort of disappointed to see that Turbine is throwing all their eggs into the new basket of Big Battles. It could be the coolest feature ever, but it could also be a flop leaving us 6+ mos. without new content in the instance/raid system we all know and (mostly) love. It would've been nice had they done some sort of split with a big battle and then a few regular 6 mans and then followed up with another iteration of some sort of split later. It just seems like once again turbine is innovating or fixing something that just doesn't need it. Like I said, might be the sweetest thing ever once we see it but I can't help but worry and be disappointed at this point with no 'standard' instance/raid (which the game DESPERATELY needs ATM).

I can totally understand what your feelings with this currently the only end game lairs that will exist for raiding are BG and OD. BG being one people dislike running since the rewards in T1 were so heavily nerfed into nonexistence and OD is one that's always been a heavy challenge to run on level. If we aren't going to get any lair content I'd highly advise that Orthanc content be put on the immediate list for enabling scaling as that's a set of content most people loved on level.

[Crell_1]

I'd highly advise that Orthanc content be put on the immediate list for enabling scaling as that's a set of content most people loved on level.

Conversely. I'd like to see Orthanc untouched. It will be different enough with the vast class skill changes. Every instance I've seen scaled has been a shadow of its former on-level self.