LOTRO Twitter Developer Chat – Class Changes. August 21, 2013 3PM Eastern.

[Tilting_at_Turbines]

*** Everything is subject to change ***

How can you justify releasing an expansion without any raids or 6-mans?
The expansion will be released with 12-person and 6-person instances.

Why doesn't Turbine use Twitch TV to show the game to new players? Other MMOs are using twitch and this is an important gaming site.
Twitch TV is designed to be a platform for eSports (electronic sports). I'm not saying it is useless for other game types, but we should at least consider that World of Warcraft has less than 10% as many viewers as League of Legends, and WoW is quite popular among MMORPGs. It is exciting to watch people playing eSports, but boring to watch someone playing an MMORPG. This is probably why MMORPG developers do not post to Twitch TV (although players do).

Will the changes have an impact on how the current classes are set up, is the impact good or bad?
Yes, any change makes an impact. Each class developer believes it will be a good impact (after all, why implement a bad one?) There will always be those that disagree, no matter what the change is.

Will there be a new class added to the game?
No.

for those of us who don't really use twitter is this going to be posted on the forums with the questions and answers? Thanks.
Yes.

Can you please clarify if it is the skill system or trait system that is changing (or both)?
Both. Skills will be consolidated and adjusted. The Trait System will get revamped.

How will the new system provide the freedom to adjust to the different instances and class roles (for instance RK & LM)?
You are able to select the appropriate traits for your intended instance and class role. You can change them when you want to change roles.

Will we be able to save different trait set-ups?
Yes.

Using all of their points, on average how many active skills does a 85 toon have?
About 50-70, depending on the class and not including mounted skills.

I realy like tanking with my champion. Will it be more possible to change blue-skilltree to better aggrokeeping and self-preservation? (Stronger selfheal and better Aggro)
Yes.

ICPR - Fate is not the solution - will be more possible with better skills to keep my power? Also for Hunter
This will be balanced if need be. It appears to be balanced at this time.

Did the hunter blue-skilltree will be changed?
Yes.

Can minstrels still switch between being as strong as possible War-speech minstrels who can enjoy all the solo content of the game, and as strong as possible healers who'll get invited to Instances and Raids?
Yes.

And will the skill trees start at the beginning of a character's life or is it something we won't see until we hit a certain level?
Once a character unlocks skill trees, they will be the same throughout the life of a character. There will not be a confusing change.

How long after these planned freep class changes have been made, will you begin to look at and then implement PROPER and MEANINGFULL creep changes? If any changes takes too long towards creating more balance in the Moors for the creeps, then maybe the Moors will be empty to even warrant any creep changes.
The next set of Moors changes will be some time after Helm's Deep. As creeps will have a superiority over freeps soon after Helm's Deep is released (since Freeps need to obtain new equipment, etc), we cannot in good conscious buff creeps when HD first launches.

Will there only be skills/traits/class etc that can only be earned from each rank and not bought from the store.
No.

With the revamp we'll see classes doing new roles at raids or Turbine will mantain the essence of each class?
Classes will maintain their advertised rolls. The intent is to encourage more players to view secondary roles (Champion and Captain Tanks, etc) as viable.

With the class changes we can expect new class quests at Helms Deep?
No.

Are all characters going to have stances (such as with mounted combat) that will change what a skill does based on that stance?
No.

Will we have "active" skills and "passive" skills (traits) for the different lines?
Yes.

Will there still be freedom to equip a legendary that is not part of your trait tree like the ones not linked to a color, e.g. To the king?
Yes.

Will Monster players get trait trees as well or will they stay with the old system?
At the launch of Helm's Deep, monster players will not get trait trees. This may change in a future update.

Is there an intended hybrid tax for secondary class roles, or are all the roles of each class intended to meet certain levels of effectiveness on par with that of other class primary roles?
There is a hybrid tax.

Will our war-steeds gain new levels and/or skills in Helm's Deep?
Yes.

Looking forward, how long do you think that the new system is sustainable? If we gain trait points as we gain levels we'll some day (very very far away in the future) hit a point where we can rank up all traits in all trees. Are there plans (today) on how to handle these extra points? How far in the future (level 105, level 125, level 200) have you planned for? A tree system where you can spend points to rank up traits can be indefinitely expanded by simply adding more ranks that unlock at higher levels.
The system is sustainable if no trait "points" are added in the future. No trait slots have been added since Moria. Subject to change.

Will there be detailed dev diaries on the upcoming class/system changes before HD release? With detailed I mean like the dev diary Orion did with the RoI champion changes, the RoR dev diaries have been rather shallow in comparison.
There will be Dev Diaries. Their amount of detail is, naturally, up to the individual developers.

Will you consider balance issues for the pvmp while you´re working on the class changes OR will this happen after you see the impacts live?
Balance issues are constantly being considered, both before and after any changes are made.

Will there be skill revamps as well as "trait revamps" so that we have to kind of learn a new class to play?
There will be minor skill revamps, but nothing that would mean learning a new class (unless you want to take advantage of a newly-augmented secondary role).

Will we see new itemization that reflects class changes or just the same old loot drops with scaled stats? Virtually every expansion is rebuilding the same way all over again. Thanks.
Itemization will not change significantly.

With the changes to the classes, has there been any thoughts on cooperative skills between classes? An example would be if a Lore-Master were to through down Improved Sticky Gourd (AoE hotspot for those who dont know) and a hunter shot through it could add fire damage to their skill?
Interacting skills appears to be too difficult to balance at this time. Even Fellowship Maneuvers proved to create too wide a gap between well-coordinated groups and ordinary groups.

Considering how threat makes an impact to classes, will we be getting more information on how threat works, and will there be any changes?
No additional information on the mechanics of threat will be released. The upcoming trait and skill changes will affect threat.

Will class items, types of LIs (Hunters and Wardens using 2 LWs compared to the other classes) and legacies be looked at (and changed)? (Hunters' tomes (why do Hunters get to read books anyway) compared to RKs' chisels, for example)?
No.

what about the moors? Will this get evened out so I dont have to listen to the griping about which side is more OP then the other?
People will always complain, even if things were somehow miraculously balanced.

Will the update allow us to use 4 legendary traits at the same time?
No.

Will Burgs be able to pick pocket keys/lootboxes? PLEASE!!! :-)
Sorry, no.

In the new system, will hunters be able to off-heal or off-tank in exchange for a lower dps trade-off?
Hunters will be able to augment their crowd control, debuffing, kiting, and survivability enough to be able to take the place of an off-tank in many circumstances.

are you going to revamp combat animations too?
Not in the immediate future.

Since there is no change in lotro that doesn't benefit the store how will the lotro store enhance the tree? Will we be able to buy profile slots?
Yes.
Buy points?
No.
Unlock skills?
Not directly.


*** Everything is subject to change ***

[DanteIL]

Wow, did the Twitter chat just get preempted?

[Armaius]

-fake Q&A-

Why are you posting a fake transcript of a Q&A that hasn't happened yet?

[Rainothon]

These questions are for Trevor “Jinjaah” McEwen:

(1) Many champions feel they are in a great spot right now. What would you say to convince them their upcoming class change is going to put them in an even better spot?

(2) Do champions get a skill that makes them enter combat from a distance by charging towards our target and hitting it violently on impact?

Looking forward to the upcoming dev chat. Thanks in advance for all your answers!

[Amondios]

Concerning burglars:
Is there any chance for Mischief-Makers and Gamblers to regain their importance and opportunities in raids (and especially the gambler in the moors)?

Cheers from [DE]Maiar

[Adanamir]

I apologise if some of my questions have already been asked earlier in this thread.

1) Are class changes co-ordinated with the Big Battles mechanic, coming with the Helm's Deep expansion?
2) If the answer to the previous question is 'yes', does this mean classes will be able to perform their roles as early as level 10?
3) Also related, will classes be able to use class-specific equipment (e.g. class items) and appropriate armour at level 10, instead of 20?
4) Is earning class traits going to change, more specifically become similar to earning war-steed traits (i.e. with points)?
5) Do you consider reducing or consolidating the number of skills for some (or all) classes?
6) Will you preserve the system of bonuses when you go deep into a given trait line?
7) Will trait lines give more specific advantages/disadvantages, and is there going to be a more noticeable trade-off?
8) Do you consider a change to virtues, racial and/or legendary traits?

Thanks in advance for the consideration.

[domehehe]

1: will guardians be able to stack more than 2 big bleeds with "Brutal Assault" (now its ridiculously because the skill has a cd of 15 sec but the bleed ticks about 1 min. 15 sec. , how that makes sense)?
2: will the costs on my weapon to increase my AOE targets be fixed? (they are much to high atm. same for the "bleed counter")
3: will guardians get any TRUE selfheal/bubble/leach to survive some simple addgroups like in IP (it cant be true that a warden is able to pull the whole instance and still survive and a guardian dies within 35 sec pulling the same, PLS give us some selfheal for example x moral for every block or a aura that heals us and our group. It doesn´t matter what we get, just give us something to survive (WARDEN´s laughing about us).
4: will the penalty in OP get removed?
5: will pledge get improved? (as its working now it doesn't take any effekt if were stunned or if we get tacticall damage)

PS: sry for my englisch, i´m from germany

[Levarust]

Question: Can we hope for new combat animations with new skill system (and maybe updated character lookings)?

[Laurenelissa]

Q1 : Many of us enjoy completing deeds (slayer, exploration, quests) and simutaneously earning both virtues and TP to strengthen our characters. With the new tree systems, will these deeds continue to grant both awards?

Q2 : How will the tree system reward those who have grinded out the deeds for 6+ years differently than a newly power-leveled character?

Q3 : For example, everyone's warsteed is exactly the same other than the relics in the bridle or how they spend their points. So, how is my captain of six years going to be distinguishable from a 3 month old captain? Will all the time invested in deeds be for naught?

[Laurenelissa]

Q1: The current system affords players a great amount of flexibility, in that it allows us to swap out one or two traits for a small amount of silver in preparation for a particular instance or raid to maximize our effectiveness for those particular challenges. How will the new system afford us the same flexibility without buying many trait sets through the store?

I would also like to know the answer to this question as well.

Yes, please answer this.

[medwulf]

The only question I have atm is will the class changes affect LI's and Legacies at all?

[Leo_Dan]

When will the class changes be available for either Closed Beta or Open Beta testing?

[Elemiire]

What happens to the current system of traiting freely? For example, right now, I can trait any 4 yellow traits that I want with any 3 blue. Will I still be able to do that?


How will the trait trees be implemented in regards to where the 'traits' will be placed? If it's a point system like the War Steed then:
* Who will determine what trait is worth more 'points' and its placement in the tree?

[Eomon]

Can we see some sort of example class tree (doesn't have to be an actual class one, just an empty one for the layout) so that we know what kind of customization/choices will be expected?

[Mathili]

Q1: Will the store purchases of trait slots somehow be converted to whatever we'd need to purchase for the new trait system (or back to TP)?
Q2: Will the virtue-system also be changed, or will that remain (approximately) as it is?
Q3: If the virtue system is changed, will there be some other system rewarding us for all the deeding done?

[Anharmon]

Which class is taking the most changes? The least?

[HeirOfNumenor]

All roles have been covered by at least two classes:

• Tank: Guardian, Warden, Champion, Captain
• Healer: Minstrel, Rune-Keeper, Captain
• Damage: Hunter, Champion, Burglar, Lore-Master, Rune-Keeper
• Crowd Control*: Burglar, Lore-Master
• Buff*: Captain, Minstrel
• Debuff*: Lore-Master, Burglar

*Indicates a role which isn't a main role.

I disagree on revamping the classes - if anything they should be simplified back to their original missions, with a much smaller skill set (say 10 active, 10 passive skills) that get better every 20 levels... (EQ2 did this and it allowed for a reasonably uncluttered keyboard, and made grouping with other classes a necessity).

Warden needs to be down-powered, and 6-man/raid role as an off-tank ONLY. I love playing my warden (except the long wait time for the sneak attack with javelin) - but still, should not be more powerful/survivable than a Guardian or Champion...


Questing is still good - even if it may feel repetitive.

I do not think quests are TOO easy...I generally do my quests about 6 levels over stated level (still GREEN names), but that is because I like to do EVERY QUEST/DEED in EVERY AREA (the four racial areas, switch off between heading into Lone-lands then to North Downs and back, etc); naturally I am going to be higher leveled.


I have yet to One-shot = Kill anything that is a colored name (even grey names still take 2-3 shots unless I have 10+ levels above). Most of my kills are 3-5 shots (including a powerful opening action), with signature mobs taking 7-12 shots (cyan or green).

Am I overpowered? Perhaps - but look what contributes to that:

• Doing every quest/deed
• Doing every area
• Crit-crafting every piece of gear (purple or cyan)
• Buffs and accelerator drops from lotteries and Hobbit-Presents (I NEVER buy them from store)
• XP boosts (whether VIP, loot-dropped, or HP buff).

Want to make it harder, without reprogramming mob toughness, making things so hard to solo and ticking off most players?

Limit areas of play per character: racial homeland quests, Epic quest line, and journeys only one direction (East OR North - NOT BOTH...if you head North instead into Lone-Lands, once you finish Angmar then you'll get ported to Rivendell and then directly to Walls of Moria).

Revamp Legendary items, or do away with them altogether - make the best get either crit-crafted, or obtainable ONLY in raids.

End the various buffs and boosts from the store & Hobbit presents. This will make WB scream bloody murder, so maybe we need to visit:

END Free to Play (or severely restrict it, similar to how EQ2 does).

[Hiritier]

Sadly I cannot online at 3PM today, but I have a question: Is there any plan about CJ revamp?

[TheREALify]

I am not looking forward to these class changes. I'm comfortable with the 7 characters I play as they are. I also feel like I've spent a lot of time getting these characters where they are today and I don't want to see that undone by these changes. Perhaps you can help allay my fears.

To the assembled team in general:
1. What is driving these changes? Specifically, what problem will be solved by making these changes to all classes?

2. How long will it take to re-learn a particular class?

3. How different will game play feel?

4. Can you give us any details about the sorts of 'tough choices' we'll have to make about our characters?

To Jared “Amlug” Hall-Dugas:
5. In what way(s) will these changes be monetized?
5a. Will we have to spend Turbine Points or Mithril Coins to reacquire lost progression?
5b. Will there be an inherent grind which can be bypassed using Turbine Points or Mithril Coins?

[Pelethor]

Sorry if these questions have been asked so far. Here i go:

1)Wil there be new skills with changes?
2)will there be new battle animations with changes?
3)will there be any new mechanics on the battle system?

[Crell_1]

1. What steps are you taking to ensure that all previous content is completable with the new trait trees? (Including all previous classic scaling and non-scaling instances)
2. How are you monetizing the class-trait-system revamp?
3. What's going on with Virtues, now that our class traits are shifted to trees?

[BiteMarks]

With these so-called Class changes happening very soon, how do you feel you'll be able to address the huge issue of OPness of the entire freep population within the Moors?

You say that you'll look at it a few months after these changes have taken place but I find that you will be unable to do anything of worth or anything of substance due to how you have built the creep population anyhow.

Creeps are simply an NPC style toon that you never ever imagined, in your wildest dreams, would it prove so successful and so much fun yet all these years down the line, you have failed many many times to address the issue and bring the 'balance' that you state time and time again.

You tell us players that you cant do much to creeps due to how you built us - you can't give simply things like mailboxes, shared vaults so how are we to beleive you will be able to address the 'balance' issue? How are you going to move creep changes forward enough in a way to allow the idea of proper fights within the Moors?

A while back you,several months infact, stated quite clearly you did not want this idea of 'Many creeps to kill a freep' to continue and so you embarked on doing something about it. Yet here we are many many months down the line and where are we now, its even worse then when you said those words. The new map you created with OP's, buffs is s.h.i.t.e which has created more pve then pvp.

If you ever do get around to creating creep changes, i have a feeling they won't be of any use to creeps due to the fact either it'll be worthless, ineffective against maxed geared/leveled freeps or there will be so few creeps left to fight as they'd left after the Helms Deep creep class changes anyhow. This update is looked upon as making the gap even wider and not even attempting to close it.

Everything is given to the freeps yet you forget they can go to the Moors and simply run around without fear right now. Sort out the Moors as you have a possiblity of still havign one of the best pvp areas out there but somehow you fail, time and time again, to recognise it, to see it and more importantly ACT UPON IT

[Wyvernclaw]

My only question is are these changes a worthwhile use of Dev time considering so many things in this game are in desperate need of fixing? Many of us haven't forgotten that Draigoch is still broken and that now FLM is looking to be going the same way.

[nubcat]

Do creep players have anything to look forward to?

[Sapience]

Closing this down so the team has time to answer the questions we were able to pull from these. I appreciate all the feedback and opinions and editorials, I jut wish we had had more actual questions. Going forward we'll try to make it more clear that these aren't discussion threads, they're places to post very specific questions. Much like how we made the Tell the Community Team threads very narrow focused.