LOTRO Twitter Developer Chat – Class Changes. August 21, 2013 3PM Eastern.

[ferrariroger]

My only problem with the current traits system is that there are too few slots, especially character traits. Otherwise, it makes sense.

I like the idea that I get to choose which traits I want to slot without being limited to some fore-ordained tree because I get to set the priorities of what trait qualities I value.

All my current traits slots for my highest-level character are full. I've worked hard to get them that way and I'm going to be pissed if the new trait system undoes all that work or compromises the quality of my accomplishments.

I would like to hear the devs explain why they are fixing something that clearly appears to be unbroken and why I should like the new system.

We are in the very same boat, man. I will be very pissed if this trait system obligate me to slot something I dont want in place of something that I really like to have

[ferrariroger]

Will the trait change to tree mean that we no more could get all virtues/traits maxxed, and pick what we want, but have to sacrifice some to advance others? (Have met THAT DECISION in too many games so far, didnt like it in any one of them)

Will the changes in trait tree be free, cost IG money ,or be priced by MC or TP?

What I am afraid too is to have to reset the whole damn tree because I want to change one single trait.

[Gardhik]

How the class changes will impact on old armor bonus ? And the new one ?

Could we have a list of which dev take care of which classes ?

[Grimdi]

- Will there be detailed dev diaries on the upcoming class/system changes before HD release? With detailed I mean like the dev diary Orion did with the RoI champion changes, the RoR dev diaries have been rather shallow in comparison.
- Do you plan any major changes to the current loot system for scaled instances? If yes, with what goal?
- Can we get a release date for releasing the release date for HD?

[Raven-EU]

Questions in bold followed by my thoughts behind the question.

What was the primary driver(s) for this change?

Trait slots have not changed since Moria. I assume that this is because giving away more slots would just make us too powerful. Leveling past 60 in the current system does not feel like we're progressing our characters (no more traits/slots etc).

Would an alternative system where we gain "Improved Memorable Prose" at certain levels have been viable? At all?

Looking forward, how long do you think that the new system is sustainable?

If we gain trait points as we gain levels we'll some day (very very far away in the future) hit a point where we can rank up all traits in all trees. Are there plans (today) on how to handle these extra points? How far in the future (level 105, level 125, level 200) have you planned for? A tree system where you can spend points to rank up traits can be indefinitely expanded by simply adding more ranks that unlock at higher levels.

How much of the current class deed/quest/epic quest/legendary books system will remain and if so, how will they be incorporated?

Class deeds and quests are a significant part in progressing your character. To get trait X you must do action Y etc. Will there be a non-leveling path to progress (used in conjunction with leveling)?

In the current system you will not get your "blue" traits unless you do "blue skills", how is this reflected in the new system?

If I don't use any healing skills on my Rune-Keeper I will not unlock my blue traits. With the new system how will not using, e.g. healing, affect me? Will I just not get access to Benediction of Peace? Will I get fewer traits? Will I get less points to spend in my DPS trees?

Looking at tree systems in other games, how much will picking a "main tree" dictate what you can (and cannot) do? Will there even be main trees?

Champions can today trait for both AoE and single target and get very good numbers for both without having to retrait. Rune-Keepers can go 4B/3Y and be good enough of a healer for 3-man content while still packing very good DPS. Will the new tree system: allow this? promote this? make it impossible? How well will hybrid builds work?

Examples:

Will a DPS-traited Guardian be able to tank? Off-tank?
Will a single-target Champion be able to do AoE? Off-tank?
Will a DPS Rune-Keeper still be able to step-up and heal in an emergency?
Will a DPS Minstrel be able to step out of War-speech?
Will a QK Burglar still have very good debuffs/buffs/CC?
Will a CC Hunter be able to DPS?

Besides balancing creeps for the new freep changes, will there be any other changes to how creeps trait?

Going from free-form traiting to tree-bound traiting will be a big change for freeps. I would assume that it both restricts freeps and gives them more flexibility at the same time. Will creep traiting (how they trait, what traits they have, how many slots etc) need to be adjusted to match this or will "just re-balancing" the existing ones be enough?

[Lunasa]

Question 1:
Assuming the new trait trees are similar to MC, will f2p players start with 1 tree or with 3 trees where they have to unlock high levels?

Question 2:
Will our war-steeds gain new levels and/or skills in Helm's Deep?


Thank you

[Bhoris_they_spider]

Judging by the Class forums, you're viewpoint isn't the most popular one.

Show me a game where class forums are full of universal praise as opposed to criticism. People only tend to post if there is something they don't like or think something could be improved so using that argument as a justification for sweeping class-changes is very naive.

I bet you the class forums will have substantially more complaints after HD goes live as people feel that the heart and soul has been ripped out of the classes they have been playing for 6+ years.

[Nyrion]

Show me a game where class forums are full of universal praise as opposed to criticism. People only tend to post if there is something they don't like or think something could be improved so using that argument as a justification for sweeping class-changes is very naive.

I bet you the class forums will have substantially more complaints after HD go live as people feel that the heart and soul has been ripped out of the classes they have been playing for 6+ years.

That was what people predicted with the Minstrel revamp for Rise of Isengard. Aside from a few people, the praise for that was almost unanimous.

Somewhat ironically the Wardens seemed fairly confident leading up to it. xD

[oaceen]

Is there an intended hybrid tax for secondary class roles, or are all the roles of each class intended to meet certain levels of effectiveness on par with that of other class primary roles?

[Godomir]

My only question and wish:

Will Guardian´s penalties in overpower be removed?

They are just absurd and make OP guard unplayable in moors.

[BethanyGoesBatty]

Is there a summary page on the class changes, where I can read all of the questions and answers? If so, can you please link it here?

[Thranthir]

These questions have probably been asked by others but I'm gonna put them here anyway just in case..

At the moment we already have a certain degree of trait-trees as in you need 5 blue traits in order to equip the blue legendary etc. But we still have a choice to not put that blue legendary trait in and go for the legendary traits that are not bound to one trait line. How will this work with the revamp to trait trees..
1. Will there still be freedom to equip a legendary that is not part of your trait tree like the ones not linked to a color, e.g. To the king?

In a previous Twitter Dev Chat it was mentioned one of the goals was to make the classes less hybrid, I would love to get a bit more clarity about this, for example does this mean a healing traited RK won't be able to attune towards DPS and thus open up all his DPS skills..
2. What did you guys mean with less hybrid classes and how will trait trees accomplish this?

In the current system we increase our traits by level and deed completion..
3a. I like to know how will one increase in a trait tree, will there be points unlocked per level and will there be store/vip locked branches?
3b. Will premium players that have unlocked all current trait slots keep access to all trait tree slots?

4. Will Monster players get trait trees as well or will they stay with the old system?


Looking forward to next week!

[Bhoris_they_spider]

That was what people predicted with the Minstrel revamp for Rise of Isengard. Aside from a few people, the praise for that was almost unanimous.

Very true, the minstrel changes were well handled but I understand the upcoming changes will go further with the ditching of the trait-lines and moving to a tree-based mechanism. I suppose we will just have to wait to see just how sweeping the changes are.

Despite being the first to complain about class-based issues relating to my main I do still love the essence of the class and would hate to lose all the things that (to me) make the class unique and play-style enjoyable. While 'multi-spec' will be appreciated by all I still have reservations with regards to what a big gamble this will be from Turbine... Get just one class wrong and you have already annoyed a large portion of your playbase, lets face it, Turbine aren't well known for getting things right the first time so god knows how many mechanics or classes they will get wrong or outright break... If not done well such changes could be the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of loyal players... A very big risk indeed, which does beg the question, what exactly is the pay-off?

This work has clearly 'sucked up' a lot of dev-time which could have gone in to producing one (or more) of the following:

Kinship Overhall
Updated Housing
Crafting Revamp
Reputation rewards revamp (heirlooms etc)
Legendary Item revamp part 2
A traditional raid-cluster
More skirmishes
North Downs/Angmar revamp
Scaling of Angmar/Moria/Lothlorien/Garth Agarwen Instances and raids
A group-centric landscape area

The list goes on and on.... I still believe a lot of people playing LOTRO enjoy the classes it has to offer over previous games, I know I certainly do... I just see this as change for change sake. They say if it aint broke don't fix it.... I'd say if it aint broke don't try to fix it as you'll probably break it in the process!

I really hope Turbine prove me wrong and work an absolute miracle here, I just don't see it and can envisage lots of angry players come patch day.

[Redbeaver]

Champion update: what's new?

[Sariela]

I agree with those who have said that it's very hard to know what to ask when we really don't know anything about the changes that are coming.

Some generic questions that would be good to know:

Will there be a change to the number of skills on our skill bar? (I read somewhere that some skill consolidation is expected) If so, how many skills will we have that we can use at any one time?

Are all characters going to have stances (such as with mounted combat) that will change what a skill does based on that stance?

Will skills be gated behind points earned, or will we still be doing quests/deeds to unlock certain skills?

Will we be able to change our build around without going to a bard? Will we be able to change it during combat or only out of combat? Will it cost anything to change our skills/builds?

Are traits still going to be used? Are they going to be in the tree? Will we have "active" skills and "passive" skills (traits) for the different lines?

[Aelonaith]

Question 1: We'll have to complete deeds to obtain the actual traits and virtues with new chars or the new system will change the way we acquire them?

Question 2: With the revamp we'll see classes doing new roles at raids or Turbine will mantain the essence of each class?

Question 3: With the class changes we can expect new class quests at Helms Deep?

[Iluvatardd]

Q1: Will we be able to get all traits on one tree, or maybe 2 trees?

Q2: Will skills change how we trait? Or what we stance we use?

Q3: Will LMs get stances? Will all current stances remain in game or be modified?

Q4:Will virtue traits and racial traits be changed?

[BiteMarks]

Once class changes have been satisfactorily finalized on the live servers, should we expect the PvMP Devs to be bringing skill trees to Monster player classes as part of their long awaited work in that zone?

Creep classes never ever get much love from the Devs and never will. We, creeps, are not important enough even though PvMP wouldn't exist at all without us.

My questions are this -

1. How long after these planned freep class changes have been made, will you begin to look at and then implement PROPER and MEANINGFULL creep changes? If any changes takes too long towards creating more balance in the Moors for the creeps, then maybe the Moors will be empty to even warrant any creep changes.
2. Will these changes to creeps once implemented, whether it be skills/traits/class etc actually stay with us without the QQ from freeps getting it nurfed like usual?
3. Will these skill trees that maybe implementsed to teh freeps be implemented to the creeps? Does this mean even more grinding for creeps to get the new skills, traits, class skill?
4. Will there be any worthwile link between the creeps rank and their class again. Will there only be skills/traits/class etc that can only be earned from each rank and not bought from the store. Make Rank worth something again and something to be proud of

[Elderban]

How will skill trees affect our current deeds and traits? Are we still going to have to kill 360 mobs to get 3 more points of morale?

And will the skill trees start at the beginning of a character's life or is it something we won't see until we hit a certain level?

[Tatuaje]

You really don't expect them to answerthat do you? I agree with your overall assessment and I can only speak from my personal view and those I interact with, this better be a home run. The dev's are tinkering with mechanisms that affect characters in a deep way, some of those characters have been played by people for 7+ years. It can't be a mess,and it can't be a complete rework and departure (given the time investment people have made into their chars) from what already exists.

This has the potential to be a great addition, or a colossal mistake. I'm skeptical personally, given the investment of time and resources into mounted combat which for the most part hasn't added a lot to the game, I mean I'm not seeing people proclaiming in glff "cant wait to do some more mounted combat!". The problem here is turbine is choosing to affect everyone with a mandatory rewrite of classes. I dislike when people impose things upon me,even if it's a hobby and I am consuming the product of my own free will. What's most disappointing is these chats aren't really an opportunity to affect change, its informative only. The changes are coming, it doesn't matter if you,me and 1000 other people don't want it. Sadly, these are the types of events in MMO's that can impact the community a great deal, either way. Im hopeful its a positive change.

Superbly stated. And with TESO around the corner, this better be a flawless (haha) and impressive expac to be screwing with things that are not broken when new real content and fixing the broke code would be better served. I already have 4 - 7 expected losses from the kin when TESO releases, I would hate to see more if HD flops.

[ShireDweller]

How will skill trees affect our current deeds and traits? Are we still going to have to kill 360 mobs to get 3 more points of morale?

And will the skill trees start at the beginning of a character's life or is it something we won't see until we hit a certain level?

I have the same questions as Elderban. Are we looking at a total reboot of all our characters regardless of level, or are we going to start to use the new skill tree system above level 85?

[deliguy]

So instead of two stallions galloping around my head on lvl up will it be two hobbits

[xDementedx]

I would like to ask why the devs didn't give us information about class changes for us to ask questions about. Are we really still at the concept and development stages for the class changes?

Everyone's question is pretty much the same... what do you have for us?

[Bhoris_they_spider]

I agree with what others have said, I'm not sure if a twitter chat is the best way to try give decent information to players regarding class changes.... At the very worse such limited communication could muddy the waters further and lead to incorrect conclusions and speculation. I know Sap/Turbine like to use different forms of communication which is good but in terms of 'horses for courses' I don't think this is a good fit... 20 questions worked really well for big battles but in the case of class changes I think I developer diary from horse dev along with contributions and examples from the other devs may have worked better at this stage.

[idontcare789]

Judging by the Class forums, you're viewpoint isn't the most popular one.

Anyone who puts any weight to what is said in the class forums is naïve. I see posts in the classes forums that make me go WHAT? Its been my experience that most of what you see on the forums isn't even near what happens in game. Most of what I see on the forums are very poor arguments for changes that simply aren't needed. Mostly and you can flame away at this, are I want, I want it now, and I don't want to put any effort into it crowd.

Classes are fine as they are. Maybe people should spend a few moments a day learning the class instead of whining for I win buttons.