TRANSCRIPT: Twitter Dev Chat August 21, 2013 - Class Changes

[Granlif]

I hope so. I haven't been able to find Light Oil on the AH for weeks.

Fire oil and Light oil have always been available from the Hunter Trainer. I always keep a full stack of 50 each!
It might not last as long as the crafted oils, but they work fine.

[TinDragon]

Fire oil and Light oil have always been available from the Hunter Trainer. I always keep a full stack of 50 each!
It might not last as long as the crafted oils, but they work fine.

Yep, they do exactly the same thing as the crafted ones, and all oils can be applied in combat, so the only reason to worry about higher crafted oils is if you're trying to save on vault space or inventory room. If you can't get the higher ones, just go with the lower ones.

[Garan]

One thing I didn't think to submit as a question - will the trait tree mechanism be exposed to Lua the way the Learned/Unlearnded skills are now or will this break all of the Lua plugins that use the current skill API? If it is a new mechanism, have the guys doing the Lua development had a chance to update the Lua API for this (in their spare time)?

[PypeRings]

Overall, I was very pleased with the chat and the descriptions of the changes. Filled with Dev enthusiasm, as these things always are, I would caution against too much exuberance though. The devils are always in the details and the implementation.

Of all the answers, I found the answer to question 17 the most squeeky. We apparently get two trees for 'free' although it is not clear if there will be enough points at the cap to completely fill them both. It also implies that more lines are available for purchase. And although trees limit the hybridization of skill sets, they do allow a pay for flexibility option. Be prepared for many pay to win forum discussions on this matter.

[Svella]

In regards to limiting the number of available skills to (around) 20 for each class, is a warden gambit considered a "skill" which counts towards this intended number or not ?

I shudder at the prospect of "1 gambit = 1 skill".

[Ithrien]

We apparently get two trees for 'free' although it is not clear if there will be enough points are the cap to completely fill them both.

I want to be able to say with certainty that all of the classes will have access to 3 'trait trees', but since Sapience/a Dev hasn't, even when directly asked how many each class will have access to, I won't.

But I WILL tell you that you are confusing trees with 'sets'. You get 2 free saved 'sets' of pre-appointed points (into trees). Its a "build". You get two free "builds" and can purchase some # more.

[Sapience]

I want to be able to say with certainty that all of the classes will have access to 3 'trait trees', but since Sapience/a Dev hasn't, even when directly asked how many each class will have access to, I won't.

Go ahead and say it. Three is correct.

[Deusdictum]

A little confused on this one. It says legendary traits are "available for purchase" at the end of the tree. Please tell me that's with Skill Points and not Mithril Coins and/or Turbine points...

Yes, with points.

But will they be purchasable with skill points or Turbine points?

[PypeRings]

I want to be able to say with certainty that all of the classes will have access to 3 'trait trees', but since Sapience/a Dev hasn't, even when directly asked how many each class will have access to, I won't.

But I WILL tell you that you are confusing trees with 'sets'. You get 2 free saved 'sets' of pre-appointed points (into trees). Its a "build". You get two free "builds" and can purchase some # more.

Thanks for the clarification. I think I get that now. 3 trees with saved 'builds' of differing point allocations. I hope this is correct and seems a bit more logical. The only question left standing then, is how many points vs. point required to fill the trees you get or can get.

[Sapience]

But will they be purchasable with skill points or Turbine points?

Skill points. Sorry, thought I had said that.

[thefamilyosc]

3 trees, red/blue/yellow, one each for our normal specialty/subspecialty(for a guardian think OP dps, s/b survival, s/b tanking). we have the trait lines now, turbine will not put one behind a pay gate. what will be pay gated is the number of specs you can save, just like current mounted combat. We get 2 free, extra save slots are available for purchase. I understand concern and even a bit of trepidation, but seriously folks, apply a little rationality before you go off.

[Elenluin-Menelloth]

My question I asked and didn't receive an answer was
"Why aren't you going to allow us to change only parts of the tree to respec? It's one of the better aspects of the current system."

Its what I don't like about the mounted combat trees. For me its a great reduction in flexibility.

[Obion]

A small request from me for the next "ask your questions", if there is one that is.

Give some ideas what it will be about, it's so much easier to come up with good questions then. Information beforehand on these class changes have been slim to none, so I couldn't come up with any good questions about it. And reading the questions people put up in the forum thread, it seems others had similar issue.

In my mind it would also be easier for those answering the questions if they where more specific. Not easy to answer questions like "How will changes affect x class?"

But thank you for the update.

[TinDragon]

My question I asked and didn't receive an answer was
"Why aren't you going to allow us to change only parts of the tree to respec? It's one of the better aspects of the current system."

Its what I don't like about the mounted combat trees. For me its a great reduction in flexibility.

Because then there's no reason to buy extra build slots.
I think my plan is to use Build A for my most commonly used build, and Build B will constantly be rebuilt depending on what I need. Either that or I'll use Build A for my grouping build and B for my solo build or something, so that groups don't wait on me to retrait.

I can see this being potentially annoying if your group leader needs you to make one simple change but you have to reword your entire setup to do so. In general though, how many people even listen when their group leader tells them to trait something different? Not many I'd wager. PUGs don't tend to listen and more experienced players will probably already be doing the right thing.

[XinaLotRO]

Aw, it looks like the formation riding team is losing its performance field to a monk and his chickens.
We'll be looking for a flat, mostly rectangular, clearly bordered area to move to.
It needs to be at least that big, but not so big that spectators can't see to the other side.
If you happen to know of any good locations, please send map location and coordinates to kiralynn@roll3d6.com
Thanks!

[Eartholloth]

I found the answer to this question quite interesting...

Q14: Judi: Will there be a new class added to the game? #LOTRO
A14: HoarseDev: Not for Helm’s Deep. #LOTRO?

[Feraxks]

My question I asked and didn't receive an answer was
"Why aren't you going to allow us to change only parts of the tree to respec? It's one of the better aspects of the current system."

Its what I don't like about the mounted combat trees. For me its a great reduction in flexibility.

But what you can do is build a trait tree spec one way and then save it, make the changes you want and then save that to a second spec slot. That should allow you to make the minor change you want (change from the base spec to one that has minor differences from the base spec) -- you just have to do it in advance and then save it.

The above is clear in my head, but I might not have articulated it very well.

[Macroscian]

What a shame, I miss a question about hunter Fleetness and other short and irritating brief buffs with irregular cooldowns and if these will go away entirely. - And whoa, short range? Hunter is NOT a wannabe champ. Bad, bad idea, sorry. Terribly terrible. Also, the oddly named Precision currently has nothing to do with being able to hit stuff so I wonder what the toggles will do... I wonder if there's a lot of 5-30 second self-buffs that will need to be maintained to reach an acceptable damage output. I wonder if the skill rotations are extensively tested at all levels to not feel awkward.


I wonder I wonder I wonder.

And I still wonder why. The only thing needed to do in order to get rid of the same-ness is retrace and get rid of most class changes past 2-3 years. So what if hunter was overpowered when the game had cap level 50 - this still can be tweaked in the upgraded regular skills instead of reducing to half damage/dodging and adding complicated little extra buffs and extra clicks and useless effects.

In some instances, on hunter I feel as if I'm wearing paper - the lack of tactical mitigation is severe or rather the lack of tactical mitigation is bad unless you go down to perhaps half agility. Is there any way these skill trait tree thingies can be applied to grant some survivability without character becoming zero dps? For two years noone asked for my hunter in a raid. They said 'dps needed, champ preferred'. How will this overpowered current champ get reduced efficiency with HD - or rather how will hunter regain some efficiency? We used to be able to evade stuff, now my hunter gets stunned and takes majorly massive damage at random at all occasions. Crit def. Evade dodge - I'm able to increase Parry, which is a great thing considering the self heal is now crucial and only fast CD is with parry response.

I fear change. Change is also fun. I still wonder why change. I also wonder, wonder, wonder about a few basic things regarding bot countermeasures and exploiting the remote loot in order to not have to have loot removed from certain content.

[Feraxks]

I found the answer to this question quite interesting...

Q14: Judi: Will there be a new class added to the game? #LOTRO
A14: HoarseDev: Not for Helm’s Deep. #LOTRO?

While that does seem to leave an opening for a new class sometime later, I personally would not read anything into that answer.

[DelgonTheWise]

Because then there's no reason to buy extra build slots.

This strikes me as a reasonable enough position, store cynic though I often am. My guess is that casual players will be more than content with 2 builds -- I'd guess many casual players don't visit the bard that much at all. Folks who want more than 2 will have to pay for it. That is life in F2P-land, but this instance of that doesn't offend me much (YMMV). I expect I'll pay for a few slots on my Captain main, and be very happy for the convenience of on-the-fly switching (say DPS traited up until boss, then swap out of combat to heals).

[Eartholloth]

While that does seem to leave an opening for a new class sometime later, I personally would not read anything into that answer.

Well then they need to just answer with a no instead of dancing around the question with a answer like they did because people are going to take it as yes we are going to get a new class eventually.

[thefamilyosc]

Of greater concern to me is exactly how on the fly respecing will work. At present if you respec in MC your skills get moved around. There aren't many of them and most are the same, so no big deal atm, but with the reduction to ~20 skills you can bet that each spec will have a good number of skills specific to it. The thought of getting all the skills in their proper places for my shortcuts/macros/oh-%$&# flailing mouse click every time I respec is annoying at best, potentially daunting if it is a role I play only rarely.

[Laire]

While I do understand some of the trepidation (such large revamps to our beloved classes are scary!), I thought this devchat was really clear about a lot of things.

Basically, like mounted combat, you can have a ton of saved up trait lines for various instances, and you can dabble in two or three builds if you want, just not get the full potency of each build the more your dabble. Sounds like current trait set ups. And I think spending a couple 100 tp for a new save spot is totally cool... I know I will be doing that on a couple toons. Having two free ones to start with sounds reasonable.


I hope 11.3 deals with the mob spawn lag... it's made some instances near unplayable o.o (Flight t2...)

[Stubbins]

I think it's going to be exciting to roll a new char. when HD is released. It sounds like the Hunter is undergoing major changes and I don't have one, so I think that would make a great new class for me.

[Lugg24]

Q39: @leixicon will all trait lines still be auto-unlocked for VIPs? #LOTRO
A39: Hoarsedev Yes they will. #LOTRO

This answers the question for current VIPs but my VIP sub ended and I still kept all the trait, virtue, race and legendary slots unlocked for all my character even the new ones. Will I still keep this perk?