Player Guide: Class Changes Summary: Burglar

[bohbashum]

Sneak movement speed in beta if you trait for QK/Gambler is -10% (without legacy).

depending on how you trait, gambler max run speed is -20% (without legacy).

however, QK is no reduction at all due to the spec bonus of +20% stealth movement speed. if you put on a legacy you actually end up gaining run-speed in stealth.

on both QK and Gamblar lines they have a trait in Tier1 that has 5 ranks for +3/6/9/12/15% run speed in stealth (+30% in total together). so, if your trait for it an MM burglar can run just as fast as a gambler burglar. the very fact an MM burg can stealth AND have Riddle cooldown is amazing. to get as high at -10% run speed is amazing.

[KMUCHa]

depending on how you trait, gambler max run speed is -20% (without legacy).

however, QK is no reduction at all due to the spec bonus of +20% stealth movement speed. if you put on a legacy you actually end up gaining run-speed in stealth.

on both QK and Gamblar lines they have a trait in Tier1 that has 5 ranks for +3/6/9/12/15% run speed in stealth (+30% in total together). so, if your trait for it an MM burglar can run just as fast as a gambler burglar. the very fact an MM burg can stealth AND have Riddle cooldown is amazing. to get as high at -10% run speed is amazing.

I'm a bit confused. I think you are talking about the old build

Build 5+5.1 changed the stealth speed in the trait lines. Rockx (best dev) took out the 5 ranks for stealth speed and instead auto gave us +40% run speed while in stealth if traited in Gambler or QK. The new 5 ranks in QK+Gambler are now stealth levels, i believe Gambler is an additional +5 stealth level and for QK i think its +5 stealth level if traited.


Now that there isn't any +run speed in stealth for MM builds have no way of getting additional run speed while in stealth.

Check out the new build

[bohbashum]

Check out the new build

herp derp, sorry then.

I did scan over the burg in 5 and 5.1 but just to see what had changed and I assumed stealth was the same. I actually forgot completely that rockX said about changing the stealth traits in beta too XD

will try and update the guide with those when it's up.

[dwarfThar]

Am I allowed to translate and post this great summary to the German forum section, bohbashum?

[bohbashum]

Am I allowed to translate and post this great summary to the German forum section, bohbashum?

I wouldn't mind at all

if you need help with any of the formatting/links just ask

[GrinsgarCZ]

Found a pretty good guide on YT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhNkTbn_zv0

[bohbashum]

Found a pretty good guide on YT:

I asked Byra a few days ago to ask to put it on the OP, he said yes, and it's up

tried to give as much credit as I could to him. good guide

[Gilean-EU]

I did some LI testing so here's legacies as they are in Beta 6:
(OP already had a list, but I thought I posted a bit more details since I was doing this for all classes anyway )


Weapon Major

Name	Min	Max
Burglar Bleed Damage	+1%	+15%
Critical Response Skill Damage	+1%	+10%
Cunning Attack Bleed Stack Chance	+3%	+66%
Feint Attack Damage	+3%	+25%
Position Surprise Strike from Stealth	+3%	+25%
Snag Damage Bonus	+3%	+25%
Subtle Stab Damage Multiplier	+1%	+10%
Surprise Strike Critical Rating	+359	+511

Weapon Minor

Name	Min	Max
Critical Chain Skills Critical Multiplier	+3%	+25%
Coup de Grâce Damage	+3%	+25%
Harmful Gamble Damage	+4%	+40%
Lucky Strike Damage	+3%	+25%
Riddle Range	+1	+20
Subtle Stab Critical Multiplier	+3%	+25%
Trick and Trick Removal Damage	+3%	+25%
Trick Range	+1	+9

Tools Major

Name	Min	Max
Critical Chain Skills Critical Chance	+1%	+15%
Devastating Critical Buff Duration	+3	+30
Gamble Chance	+5%	+20%
Hedge Your Bet Damage	+3%	+25%
Mischievous Glee Healing	+5%	+50%
Off-hand Critical Rating	+264	+416
Positional Damage	+1%	+15%
Skills Critical Multiplier	+1%	+15%
Tricks Duration	+1	+15

Tools Minor

Name	Min	Max
Addle Induction Multiplier	+1%	+50%
All In Buff Duration	+1	+15
Clever Retort Damage and Healing	+4%	+40%
Coup de Grâce Stealth Window	+1	+10
Pulse Modifier for Glee	+1	+9
Reveal Weakness Range	+1	+20
Sneak Movement Speed	+1%	+10%
Stealth Level	+1	+3

[GrinsgarCZ]

I did some LI testing so here's legacies as they are in Beta 6:
(OP already had a list, but I thought I posted a bit more details since I was doing this for all classes anyway )

That snag damage bonus legacy improves dmg done by that skill or the + incoming dmg debuff? If its the 2nd its pretty OP

I cant wait till i get to play with this on live. Being cunning attack fast skill i think maybe cunning attack stack legacy might be finally worth it, or DoTs rotation in general, especially if you play gambler. Cunning attack stack, bleed multiplier legacy, bleed traits.. this all together could be pretty powerful and im curious how its gonna stand versus QK dps.
Clever retort dmg + Trick removal dmg might be a nice synergy for MM build, especially with 20s clever retort dmg + cd cutting with subtle stab.
Crit chain skills crit chance + multiplier + Critical response skilll dmg is very nice synergy as well, great for gambler but not sure if its worth it for QK if he has only 1 crit chain skill.
Lucky Strike legacy seems to be little underwhelming since you dont do much dmg with that skill and you usually dont have it in your rotation, cause you save it for special occasions, especially for debuffing gambles i guess.
Harmful gambles dmg? Ill have to see how much dmg gambles do.. with current dmg it wouldnt be worth it probably.
All-in duration - Awesome
These legacies are very gambler friendly it seems to me, stacking nicely with gambler traits.

My scetch for gambler LIs for HD:
Weapon
+Burglar Bleed
+Cunning Attack stack
+ Crit response skill dmg
- Crit chain skills crit mult
- Harmful gamble dmg/Subtle stab crit

Tools
+Crit chain crit chance
+Gamble chance
+Pos. dmg
+Skills crit multiplier
- All in duration
- Sneak speed

[Gilean-EU]

That snag damage bonus legacy improves dmg done by that skill or the + incoming dmg debuff? If its the 2nd its pretty OP

Can't check at the moment, but usually if legacy says "damage bonus" it means it adds the base damage of that skill - otherwise it would mention debuff.

[StrideColossus]

Quick question for any burgs that have played in beta: given QK line has the new Stun Dust skill, do we still have the consumable stun dust available?

[Eldarian_Grace]

Anyone tested the hytbold gambler set bonus with clever retort? previously get a random damaging effect and a random "heal" boost. Now how does it work?

the guide tells us which trick for what but how does the gambler set bonus interact with that?

[RockX]

Quick question for any burgs that have played in beta: given QK line has the new Stun Dust skill, do we still have the consumable stun dust available?

The old Stun Dust should no longer function if I remember correctly.

[StrideColossus]

The old Stun Dust should no longer function if I remember correctly.

Cheers, guess I'd better sell my stack o'stun dust before HD then

[Bootstwaddle]

Anyone tested the hytbold gambler set bonus with clever retort? previously get a random damaging effect and a random "heal" boost. Now how does it work?

the guide tells us which trick for what but how does the gambler set bonus interact with that?

This set bonus no longer exists for Gambler's.
Instead the 4 piece bonus is "Lucky Strike/Gambler's Strike Silences Target for 10s"

[Lohi]

A little Beta History, these two skills were originally flipped.
In the early stages Trip was part of the Gambler line, and Exposed Throat part of the QK line.. there was enough constructive feedback to suggest that Trip would be fairly useless in the Gambler Line (only useable out of stealth or after HiPS), so it was moved to QK (where it can used with Feint Attack more often).

Hmm, I always did Mischief Maker (haven't played burglar since RoI beta). And it seems that things like Stun and Trip were perfect things for a little scamp causing mischief, but no longer available there.

Well Place Strike was one of my favorite openers too, and good out of stealth if someone else is tanking or after a stun, so sad to see that go. Also loved Confound, but I started playing Burglar before Gambler was invented and never got used to the change in perception that gambler was best mezzer and mischief maker was a wannabe.

Good to be MM and stealthy though. However I wonder if it will be viable still or is as dead as Shadows of Angmar? Ie, most fights from 3-mans to raids to skirmishes all seem to be about DPS races.

[dwarfThar]

Good to be MM and stealthy though. However I wonder if it will be viable still or is as dead as Shadows of Angmar? Ie, most fights from 3-mans to raids to skirmishes all seem to be about DPS races.

You will probably be healing 3 mans in MM.

[Webgiant]

So basically my preferred QK style is nerfed now? I always preferred playing Burgs as stealth-only, now it sounds like LOTRO has switched from Burglars being champs who can sneak to just making them champ clones with a little healer thrown in, and forget this "sneaky Burglar" nonsense. If I can't go behind a mob in stealth and wipe out most of its morale before it really knows I'm there, Burglar, and therefore LOTRO, has lost its lustre. If I wanted to play a class which fought out in the open most of the time, I wouldn't have chosen Burglar.

The old Stun Dust should no longer function if I remember correctly.

Does this apply to Marbles and Caltrops as well?

[GrinsgarCZ]

So basically my preferred QK style is nerfed now? I always preferred playing Burgs as stealth-only, now it sounds like LOTRO has switched from Burglars being champs who can sneak to just making them champ clones with a little healer thrown in, and forget this "sneaky Burglar" nonsense. If I can't go behind a mob in stealth and wipe out most of its morale before it really knows I'm there, Burglar, and therefore LOTRO, has lost its lustre. If I wanted to play a class which fought out in the open most of the time, I wouldn't have chosen Burglar.

I really dont understand your concerns, you are still able to kill foes from behind very quickly, if not faster than before. Its not the QK which has been nerfed, its the environment which has changed and we have to adapt. Just like Bilbo had to fight in some big battles... But you are free to stay in the shadows of Moria

[furtim]

I'm not sure how Quiet Knife is less stealth-oriented now. I mean, the capstone gives you a way to re-stealth while in combat once a minute, and you've still got HIPS on top of that for all Burglar specs. Not to mention that the rest of the QK tree is chock full of stuff that's either enhanced by stealth or flat out requires it.

I mean, yes, technically it's got more non-stealth stuff than before, but it also just plain has more stuff than before.

[Bootstwaddle]

So basically my preferred QK style is nerfed now? I always preferred playing Burgs as stealth-only, now it sounds like LOTRO has switched from Burglars being champs who can sneak to just making them champ clones with a little healer thrown in, and forget this "sneaky Burglar" nonsense. If I can't go behind a mob in stealth and wipe out most of its morale before it really knows I'm there, Burglar, and therefore LOTRO, has lost its lustre. If I wanted to play a class which fought out in the open most of the time, I wouldn't have chosen Burglar.

If this is your only concern.. well, you really have nothing to be concerned about.
QK gets pretty much all the stealth and positional bonuses the Burg Trees have to offer, so have at it.

But you'll HATE the toe to toe abilities of TG and MM.. which is too bad, because they're rather awesome.

[Webgiant]

I'm not sure how Quiet Knife is less stealth-oriented now. I mean, the capstone gives you a way to re-stealth while in combat once a minute, and you've still got HIPS on top of that for all Burglar specs. Not to mention that the rest of the QK tree is chock full of stuff that's either enhanced by stealth or flat out requires it.

I mean, yes, technically it's got more non-stealth stuff than before, but it also just plain has more stuff than before.

People used the term "glass cannon" to refer to QK, noting the removal of Mischievous Glee and pretty much any other QK heal buff (the one that remains is buggy), while simultaneously praising TG and MM. I assumed the worst, since "glass cannon" and lack of personal healing IS the worst. I've never done an on-level OHK, only a two-thirds morale removal, and Mischievous Glee kept me alive while removing the remaining third of the mob's morale. Losing MG means QK is a "glass cannon".

[GrinsgarCZ]

If I can't go behind a mob in stealth and wipe out most of its morale before it really knows I'm there, Burglar, and therefore LOTRO, has lost its lustre.

Mischievous Glee kept me alive while removing the remaining third of the mob's morale. Losing MG means QK is a "glass cannon".

If the QK crit heal will be fixed, it will provide more HPS than glee on live I believe. Losing MG definitely doesnt mean glass cannon. You could do about 100-150 hps self-heal with MG, thats something hunters could only dream about, does that mean they are all glass canon? And again, QK crit heals when will work right will provide more than 100 hps if you attack stuff i believe.
And maybe its time for you to try gambler, it can do very good dmg as well and you can still use some extra points in QK tree.

[Webgiant]

If the QK crit heal will be fixed, it will provide more HPS than glee on live I believe. Losing MG definitely doesnt mean glass cannon. You could do about 100-150 hps self-heal with MG, thats something hunters could only dream about, does that mean they are all glass canon?

When you put it that way, *of course* hunters are glass cannons! Suddenly I feel a lot better about choosing Burglar over Hunter. Thanks!

[Jureon]

How long is the cooldown on the gambler evade heal proc? I think I remember they nerfed it a bit.