OFFICIAL: Orlando Florida Player Meet and Greet - Saturday April 5, 2014

**whosjgalt** · Apr 07 2014, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Crell_1

Any chance you have some tidbits you'd care to share?

Sure: Sapience said "Yes.... no, he'd think about it, and definitely in the works."

Basically, every question we posed to him, he answered, including the mystery Horseshoe question! What does the Horseshoe do?? Nothing that we had tried thus far!

**Datheor** · Apr 08 2014, 06:48 AM

Kickman, thanks again for all your hard work! You did an incredible job, and I do hope we can do another event come fall. Once a year is not nearly enough time to spend with such excellent folks.

Sapience, thank you so much for attending. It was really nice to meet the person behind the name. For those that come down on him so hard on this board, well, all I can say is there are few people that could do the job he does and not loose what little sanity they have left. He is the main conduit we have with the game so many of us love, and does the very best he can to champion what we want with the powers that be. For anyone that has worked deep within a corporate system, that can be a very difficult job.. You do not have to like him, but he does deserve our respect for the job he does "herding the cats" that make up the LOTRO community.

As to the Ft. Lauderdale Hard Rock, I have not lived in that area for a while, is that "in season" for rooms if we do this again in the fall? If not, the rates will be quite low.

**Orodbril** · Apr 08 2014, 12:48 PM

Also from me: Thanks kickman, for organising this awesome event! It was great to meet you all! And thank you Sapience for taking your time! It was great!

@ Crell: He answered a question why Mithril Coins had to be introduced into the game. These are technical issues in the communication between the different game systems. In short: There is the game, the account-data system and your bags/wallets etc.
While you can spend Turbine points in the store, this doesn't work in the game as the shop is kind of a browser in game working with your account information. Once you chose your server and logged in your character the game has no communication with the account data any more and only knows if you're VIP or not. Turbine points are account-data related, so you can't use them in game for fast-travel, revival and so on. The game can only work with items. When you purchase Mithril Coins in the store, they're added as items in technical definitions so the game can work with them and use them up which ism't possible with TP as they aren't items for the servers and also they don't have access to this information. Kind of this way it works, maybe someone else can explain it again better than me, but it was a technical issueat the time that created the need for Mithril Coins for these kinds of expenses.

**Datheor** · Apr 08 2014, 01:01 PM

Thanks for the explanation Oro. I have a kinmate that transferred, and was angry as to why they lost MC's. I will post this to them.

**Elflord410** · Apr 08 2014, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Orodbril

Also from me: Thanks kickman, for organising this awesome event! It was great to meet you all! And thank you Sapience for taking your time! It was great!

@ Crell: He answered a question why Mithril Coins had to be introduced into the game. These are technical issues in the communication between the different game systems. In short: There is the game, the account-data system and your bags/wallets etc.
While you can spend Turbine points in the store, this doesn't work in the game as the shop is kind of a browser in game working with your account information. Once you chose your server and logged in your character the game has no communication with the account data any more and only knows if you're VIP or not. Turbine points are account-data related, so you can't use them in game for fast-travel, revival and so on. The game can only work with items. When you purchase Mithril Coins in the store, they're added as items in technical definitions so the game can work with them and use them up which ism't possible with TP as they aren't items for the servers and also they don't have access to this information. Kind of this way it works, maybe someone else can explain it again better than me, but it was a technical issueat the time that created the need for Mithril Coins for these kinds of expenses.

In-game coin is also an "in-game" item. Trying to justify/rationalize MC's as necessary for in-game functions is silly. They are a source of revenue for Turbine, period.

**frickinmuck** · Apr 08 2014, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Orodbril

@ Crell: He answered a question why Mithril Coins had to be introduced into the game. These are technical issues in the communication between the different game systems. In short: There is the game, the account-data system and your bags/wallets etc.
While you can spend Turbine points in the store, this doesn't work in the game as the shop is kind of a browser in game working with your account information. Once you chose your server and logged in your character the game has no communication with the account data any more and only knows if you're VIP or not. Turbine points are account-data related, so you can't use them in game for fast-travel, revival and so on. The game can only work with items. When you purchase Mithril Coins in the store, they're added as items in technical definitions so the game can work with them and use them up which ism't possible with TP as they aren't items for the servers and also they don't have access to this information. Kind of this way it works, maybe someone else can explain it again better than me, but it was a technical issueat the time that created the need for Mithril Coins for these kinds of expenses.

That makes a lot of sense. When making purchases in-game, without the store interface, I can totally now understand why MC are necessary. And I don't have anything against them in that context. The issue I have with them is when they are the only alternative for pricier purchases such as extra housing storage space. Mainly because there is no receipt given, and no way for the user to track MC acquisition and spending. If we had some sort of interface where we could go, similar to the account page in the store, and see a list of where our MC are coming and going, I wouldn't be so hateful toward them.

Originally Posted by Datheor

Thanks for the explanation Oro. I have a kinmate that transferred, and was angry as to why they lost MC's. I will post this to them.

This is exactly the type of thing that worries me. If I lose in-game gold, big deal. I got that from selling a bunch of shattered daggers, not worried about it. But if I lose MC, that's real money I've put into the game and I have a right to know where it's going and have some means of restitution if things go wrong.

**Datheor** · Apr 08 2014, 02:08 PM

Same thing with Skirm Marks and Medallions. I lost a ton when I transferred. My fault for not using them before I moved, but still...

**Datheor** · Apr 08 2014, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by frickinmuck

That makes a lot of sense. When making purchases in-game, without the store interface, I can totally now understand why MC are necessary. And I don't have anything against them in that context. The issue I have with them is when they are the only alternative for pricier purchases such as extra housing storage space. Mainly because there is no receipt given, and no way for the user to track MC acquisition and spending. If we had some sort of interface where we could go, similar to the account page in the store, and see a list of where our MC are coming and going, I wouldn't be so hateful toward them.

This is exactly the type of thing that worries me. If I lose in-game gold, big deal. I got that from selling a bunch of shattered daggers, not worried about it. But if I lose MC, that's real money I've put into the game and I have a right to know where it's going and have some means of restitution if things go wrong.

That is the worst part. They tell you up front MC does not transfer (like Marks and Medallions) so you either buy all the things before you go, or lose it.

**Burrito** · Apr 08 2014, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Orodbril

@ Crell: He answered a question why Mithril Coins had to be introduced into the game. These are technical issues in the communication between the different game systems. In short: There is the game, the account-data system and your bags/wallets etc.
While you can spend Turbine points in the store, this doesn't work in the game as the shop is kind of a browser in game working with your account information. Once you chose your server and logged in your character the game has no communication with the account data any more and only knows if you're VIP or not. Turbine points are account-data related, so you can't use them in game for fast-travel, revival and so on. The game can only work with items. When you purchase Mithril Coins in the store, they're added as items in technical definitions so the game can work with them and use them up which ism't possible with TP as they aren't items for the servers and also they don't have access to this information. Kind of this way it works, maybe someone else can explain it again better than me, but it was a technical issueat the time that created the need for Mithril Coins for these kinds of expenses.

My guess was that they introduced MC so they could eventually phase out the store, and the items you would normally buy in the store would eventually only be purchasable in the game with Mithril Coin. I came to this conclusion when many of the "store only" items became purchasable with Mithril Coin. And, it makes business sense as well...why pay a third party vendor a, I am guessing, monthly fee plus a percent of each sale when you can keep 100% of the sale?

It does suck that Mithril Coins don't transfer, though, since they actually hold a monetary value.

**Datheor** · Apr 08 2014, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Burrito

My guess was that they introduced MC so they could eventually phase out the store, and the items you would normally buy in the store would eventually only be purchasable in the game with Mithril Coin. I came to this conclusion when many of the "store only" items became purchasable with Mithril Coin. And, it makes business sense as well...why pay a third party vendor a, I am guessing, monthly fee plus a percent of each sale when you can keep 100% of the sale?

It does suck that Mithril Coins don't transfer, though, since they actually hold a monetary value.

Agreed, but with transfers being so easy, I hope they find a way for all currencies to stick with a character when they move.

**Jadowyn** · Apr 08 2014, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Datheor

Agreed, but with transfers being so easy, I hope they find a way for all currencies to stick with a character when they move.

There is just one little problem with doing that - MCs items that are shared between all the toons you have on one server. If they move them over when you transfer one character, how do they know whether you want to save them for the other toons left behind or if you want to move them all to the new server thus depriving the remaining toons of MC?

Remember that the only items that are moved are those that are bound to, and can only be used by, a single character.

Before you do a transfer, you can move all your cash and a bunch of goodies to the toon being moved. Then those items will go with them. But shared items are no longer stored in packs and so can not be split between your toons any more. That is one of the curses of having that nice wallet to hold all your goodies and not take up pack space.

There is the option that if you transfer the last toon on your account on server A to another server, all shared items in your wallet would go with them to the new server. Of course that still means that any items in your shared vault and wardrobe would only be able to be moved if the shared vault and wardrobe on the other server was empty so that all the items were guaranteed to be moved and not some random stuff left behind.

**Jadowyn** · Apr 08 2014, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Crell_1

The only 'official promotional' LOTRO cloaks I recall were for the 2013 5th anniversary . They were made in very limited quanity for giveaways. Alas, I'm having difficulty finding pictures online =/

OK, I found a picture of the cosmetic version of the 5th Anniversary Cloak at http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Fifth_Anniversary_Cloak

The one Sapience was giving aways had a very similar back design but was in a dark green so it must have been the one they made for those giveaways. I guess he was trying to clear some storage space of old items to make run for future goodies.

**frickinmuck** · Apr 08 2014, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Jadowyn

Remember that the only items that are moved are those that are bound to, and can only be used by, a single character.

Easy solution is to just make MC account-wide like TP.

**Orodbril** · Apr 08 2014, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by frickinmuck

Easy solution is to just make MC account-wide like TP.

I think that's simply not possible as they're seen as items by the system and therefore are bound to a server at least like marks, seals, medaillons and some of the instance drops and stuff like that. There are NO account-wide items, so it just seems to be a impossibility. MC are kind of like seals and marks and meds, as you don't have them in your item's bag and can be used with all characters of a server. As you can't take seals and marks with you on a char transfer so why should it be suddenly possible with MC?

**Orodbril** · Apr 08 2014, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Jadowyn

OK, I found a picture of the cosmetic version of the 5th Anniversary Cloak at http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Fifth_Anniversary_Cloak

The one Sapience was giving aways had a very similar back design but was in a dark green so it must have been the one they made for those giveaways. I guess he was trying to clear some storage space of old items to make run for future goodies.

Here is the RL version from LotRO on Facebook.

Although this photo is from the NC-meeting.

**frickinmuck** · Apr 08 2014, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Orodbril

I think that's simply not possible as they're seen as items by the system and therefore are bound to a server at least like marks, seals, medaillons and some of the instance drops and stuff like that. There are NO account-wide items, so it just seems to be a impossibility. MC are kind of like seals and marks and meds, as you don't have them in your item's bag and can be used with all characters of a server. As you can't take seals and marks with you on a char transfer so why should it be suddenly possible with MC?

Because MC represent actual IRL currency. I get that there may be technical challenges to doing this, but I think it should be done. Alternately, there should be a means of converting MC back into TP.

**Orodbril** · Apr 08 2014, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by frickinmuck

Because MC represent actual IRL currency. I get that there may be technical challenges to doing this, but I think it should be done. Alternately, there should be a means of converting MC back into TP.

yes, that's a problem. I know, but the possibility of converting MC back into TP also makes it possible to create TP out of nothing as you can also get MC in Hobbit presents and lootboxes. So theoretically you could create TP out of no money with it just depending on ingame money when you buy boxes via the auctioneer, making it a (if luckily) shortcut to TP instead of deeds, where you at least has to do something while opening lootboxes isn't that big deal...

It would be great, if they find something to resolve that kind of problem, but it might be not that easy...

**Grimsin'sRiders** · Apr 09 2014, 12:27 AM

**Orodbril** · Apr 09 2014, 12:36 AM

Thank you for the list, but:

Maiar[DE], so an "i" instead of a "j"

**whosjgalt** · Apr 09 2014, 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by Grimsin'sRiders

Grim: Thanks BIG TIME for this list, I wish we would have shared emails!

**Grimsin'sRiders** · Apr 09 2014, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by Orodbril

Thank you for the list, but:

Maiar[DE], so an "i" instead of a "j"

Yes, I fat-fingered it, & have since fixed it, thanks.

Grimsin

**Datheor** · Apr 09 2014, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by frickinmuck

Because MC represent actual IRL currency. I get that there may be technical challenges to doing this, but I think it should be done. Alternately, there should be a means of converting MC back into TP.

This. And since it does in some ways represent "real" currency, I think this should be high on the list. Make it a fixed rate conversion, but try and make it happen.

**Datheor** · Apr 09 2014, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by Orodbril

yes, that's a problem. I know, but the possibility of converting MC back into TP also makes it possible to create TP out of nothing as you can also get MC in Hobbit presents and lootboxes. So theoretically you could create TP out of no money with it just depending on ingame money when you buy boxes via the auctioneer, making it a (if luckily) shortcut to TP instead of deeds, where you at least has to do something while opening lootboxes isn't that big deal...

It would be great, if they find something to resolve that kind of problem, but it might be not that easy...

Well, you can create TP out of nothing, by means of the create character/ do starter deeds/delete/repeat method. Very little work required (especially if you have help).

I would think this was a gray area in the whole TP/MC world. It does have an indirect impact on real world currency. Even if Turbine is 100% in the right, a conversion system might be a good idea from a PR standpoint. Obviously I am no programming expert, but perhaps a 2 way conversion system would not be a huge thing to do, and budget wise could be part of the automated server transfer development cost.

**Datheor** · Apr 09 2014, 06:18 AM

Grimsin, Kickman was talking about a Florida event in the fall as well. Perhaps we should have just one combined?

**frickinmuck** · Apr 09 2014, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Orodbril

yes, that's a problem. I know, but the possibility of converting MC back into TP also makes it possible to create TP out of nothing as you can also get MC in Hobbit presents and lootboxes. So theoretically you could create TP out of no money with it just depending on ingame money when you buy boxes via the auctioneer, making it a (if luckily) shortcut to TP instead of deeds, where you at least has to do something while opening lootboxes isn't that big deal...

It would be great, if they find something to resolve that kind of problem, but it might be not that easy...

What is more important? Having a currency that can be trusted by players, or giving away MC in lootboxes? Besides, TP is already awarded in-game and via events and contests. No reason they can't do both - allow awarding of MC via Hobbit Gifts, etc, AND ensure players have a means of converting or transferring it along with their characters. AND giving them a means in-game of tracking MC acquisition and purchases.

Thread: OFFICIAL: Orlando Florida Player Meet and Greet - Saturday April 5, 2014

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