Ask The LOTRO Team – Answers to your questions – February 6, 2014

[Calta]

In reverse, that last line is a little pointless. I can play any class on any MMO I've ever tried and still watch tv and do other things as well (such as eat or, in your case, do my nails). Leveling isn't supposed to be super challenging.

what Beanie said-since minstrels don't generally heal groups while levelling these days since they are not needed, i thought what i said was pretty clear. Levelling a minstrel is now easy. Group healing is boring and largely unnecessary. Buffing is broken. That leaves dps. Or being god mode in the moors.

As for healing absolutely anything when all-red (or the reverse)... snip....

At first I was in my red/yellow tree and my heals were insufficient once Dargnakh went into rage-mode. I had to switch to my blue stance to get all my necessary heals back (not to mention their full potency) and then had no problem. Makes sense: 2 lvl 95s in a lvl 75 3-man instance. No problem in my healing spec to keep the champ healed. But to heal him while I was red/yellow? Wasn't going to happen -- there was simply no way my reduced heals would suffice.

I not surprised the champ needed healing-even though he's at officially at 75 Dargnakh still damages much more than any scaled 95 boss I have yet encountered. You used to have to run in to heal the heavily mitigated high morale tank and run away before he raged. It was never possible to be in range to heal the tank and be out of range of D's aoe at the same time. That was why it was a hard instance, especially if you lagged. I never got it on challenge on level-not because of the difficulty of healing the tank but because i got one shotted by the rage while getting out of healing range to safety In your example it seems you avoided the mechanics by AOE HPSing your way through the damage because you are overlevel overpowered and could. But you needed those aoe heals to get around both the mechanics and having a champ as a tank.

So I'm confused by the relevance of this example to my saying that I can heal anything at 95, specced red/left overs in blue-with the exceptions of some tier 2s and raid boss fights, that I already noted. A better example would be the 95 Iobars peak. Can you heal that traited red and in harmony or melody? Yep. Can you heal GG red? yep...Can you do school/library/fornost/OE/sari-suma/HV traited red? yep I can. Beanie can. Most grouping minstrels can. not because I'm special but because the other players I group with just don't need heals!!!!!!!!

As for my godmode gear and super hardcore playstyle? LOL. Me?

I just took off my second last piece of level 90 crafted jewellery and replaced it with a BB drop. I'm still wearing some purple gear drops/level 90 crafted. I have two second ages with level 9 relics and no crafted ones. I don't even have titles because I can't be bothered doing Wildermore or Hytbold grinds ever again for them. I just used tp for the baby title to change damage type to Beleriand. Yet I have TM -outgoing heals at 110% plus, my morale is about 14,700 and could be higher if i wasn't trying to put back some more crits. These are stats I have done nothing to max.

I don't PVP because I'm old and slow. I have no twitch reflexes and no situational awareness (it's a standing joke with my friends-if there's a mob behind me, I'll back into it). I never was good enough for some RoI tier2CM (Dargnakh, ToO) -even in kin runs. At 85 I could do most BfE challenge stuff on level with a well oiled raid kin but not a pug. But now I can heal 4 of us doing Helegrod spider wing raid in yellow spec or great Goblin Tier2CM in red(!?) or duo Hall of Night in either red or yellow. Screenshots to prove it if you want. Since you keep accusing me of exaggerating. It's not me being hardcore, it's the fact the tank doesn't need heals....

In short, I am a very average player who compensates for my physical shortcomings by knowing their class and anticipating the skills i need to use, and adapting to the players i am with. I like to use my mind rather than rely on my reactions. I loved my old minstrel because I could do exactly that.

TL: DR If I want to just relax I do quests or slayer deeds or craft or RP or chat. And no, I don't want everything super hard-i have said repeatedly in many threads that i have no issue with landscapes being very easy BUT If I do end game tier 2 CM I expect to be needed to heal the group, to have to think a bit, to do the instance as the mechanics intended, to use more than 1 or 2 OP skills, and to die frequently while trying to learn it. YMMV.

[Beaniemooch]

So, again... and I'm not purposefully trying to be difficult about this... I am just finding it really hard to believe Minstrels have all of the problems you say they have... everyone still has some issues left over from the HD changes... but when I have leveled 4 different classes to 95 and found myself quite capable of satisfactorily adjusting them to the changes...

I'm sorry you find it hard to believe. Adjusting to change isn't hard when all you need is one tree and 3 skills, all of them dps, or one tree and one skill for healing. Could I do other things? I'm not sure, there's no content to do it in and no groups that want me to do anything else. I can dps or I can pretty much dps, with Piercing Cry/Call to Fate/ThirdSkillOfChoiceFromDissonan ce. If a healer is called for I can use one singlle-target button and heal anything from the overpowered group-wide proc. I'm not sure what adjustment other than that needs to be made to play a minstrel.

You're confusing inability to adapt to change with having fun. They've taken all need for a minstrel out of the game, which means raid healers like myself are pretty upset. Well, no need for heals and no new raids, so upset on two levels. We used to have content to heal, groups that needed healing, and weren't reduced to "what's your level Engineer" (mine's R6 but I hate BBs due to the next question) and "can you go dps, just keep an eye on banners".

[TheCrossbow]

I'm sorry you find it hard to believe. Adjusting to change isn't hard when all you need is one tree and 3 skills, all of them dps, or one tree and one skill for healing. Could I do other things? I'm not sure, there's no content to do it in and no groups that want me to do anything else. I can dps or I can pretty much dps, with Piercing Cry/Call to Fate/ThirdSkillOfChoiceFromDissonan ce. If a healer is called for I can use one singlle-target button and heal anything from the overpowered group-wide proc. I'm not sure what adjustment other than that needs to be made to play a minstrel.

You're confusing inability to adapt to change with having fun. They've taken all need for a minstrel out of the game, which means raid healers like myself are pretty upset. Well, no need for heals and no new raids, so upset on two levels. We used to have content to heal, groups that needed healing, and weren't reduced to "what's your level Engineer" (mine's R6 but I hate BBs due to the next question) and "can you go dps, just keep an eye on banners".

If the person you are running BBs with only cares about your rank... and asks "can you go dps, just keep an eye on banners?"

Then that person clearly has no clue of the value of what your character can do that makes particular portions of the battles a lot easier than not having a Minstrel.

Anyone seeing a good Minstrel in their Big Battle group should instantly know that... "Hey, we have some pretty good heals on board which makes keeping objects repaired and keeping soldiers from dying a lot easier..."
Heck, there are some objects that can't be repaired by an engineer... but can be healed.

So, in this case... your dislike of BBs is being contributed to by people who really don't understand the intricacies of the BBs... thus, don't realize how valuable you are to them.

[Beaniemooch]

If the person you are running BBs with only cares about your rank... and asks "can you go dps, just keep an eye on banners?"

Then that person clearly has no clue of the value of what your character can do that makes particular portions of the battles a lot easier than not having a Minstrel.

Anyone seeing a good Minstrel in their Big Battle group should instantly know that... "Hey, we have some pretty good heals on board which makes keeping objects repaired and keeping soldiers from dying a lot easier..."
Heck, there are some objects that can't be repaired by an engineer... but can be healed.

So, in this case... your dislike of BBs is being contributed to by people who really don't understand the intricacies of the BBs... thus, don't realize how valuable you are to them.

Actually I hate BBs in general because I don't enjoy the mechanics and I hate the RNG. I've never had a soldier die in a group and I've never healed one, other than the Commanding Officers being told to heal. I don't heal objects because others in group keep the mobs off them with tripwires and dps. I have no idea what can't be repaired by an engineer except Horses in the Dike, but you just dps mobs and put barricades down and you get platinum. And if you're worried about NPCs dying you get an RK - they can bubble them. I can't. AOE heals don't work on NPCs either, I'd have to click on every soldier to check his health, which in a 12-man wall run is impossible. Back to RK comment, bubble if you're worried.

Edit: I should also put in the disclaimer I ran most of my BBs solo (not duo) before 12.3, and was R3 from there. I did 2 pug 12-mans where I ran around and healed pretty much nothing but workers down below once and we got platinums all around (no clue how or why). I've only ever done one 6-man dike. I run BBs as little as possible because once I got my jewelry there was no point in going back in except to help a friend or two starting out. I made R6 pretty easily with limited runs and got 2 identical gold pockets plus multiples of teals that were vendor trash. But we're back to the ridiculous RNG again, my bad.

[RicardoFurriel]

So, in this case... your dislike of BBs is being contributed to by people who really don't understand the intricacies of the BBs... thus, don't realize how valuable you are to them.

Wait... hang on... hitting a skill (let's say, Bolster Courage) once per soldier/banner/barricade in a 20 minute span is intricate?

[Calta]

Forgive my bluntness but nothing you described is at all exclusive to the Minstrel.

> .

No it's not. But no other class suffers from being completely overpowered and utterly boring to play and nearly redundant in their main role-all at the same time.

So yes, some of my frustration is caused by game balance. Some, the way the trees are set up for other classes so healers aren't required even in 6 mans. Some is frustration with having no real class role in the only new end game. Some is the details of the traits and the skill gates and actual skills left/removed. Some is from core skill bugs that haven't been fixed since august. Some of it is from being ignored completely for months. Some is captain envy.

But most of my frustration is that any subtlety variety and sheer fun has gone from what used to be one of the great and most fun classes. Sadly you'll never know how much fun we were, or how much we've lost.

as you seem genuinely interested, rather than hijacking this thread further I've pruned this post and PMd some specifics to you.

[TheCrossbow]

Wait... hang on... hitting a skill (let's say, Bolster Courage) once per soldier/banner/barricade in a 20 minute span is intricate?

There are ample things to do that can make the battles a lot easier... whether or not you choose to take advantage of those things is up to you. And, if anyone thinks for a moment that spamming 1 skill the whole time is what I mean...

[SouthernBelle0927]

what Beanie said-since minstrels don't generally heal groups while levelling these days since they are not needed, i thought what i said was pretty clear. Levelling a minstrel is now easy. Group healing is boring and largely unnecessary. Buffing is broken. That leaves dps. Or being god mode in the moors.

As for healing absolutely anything when all-red (or the reverse)... snip....


I not surprised the champ needed healing-even though he's at officially at 75 Dargnakh still damages much more than any scaled 95 boss I have yet encountered. You used to have to run in to heal the heavily mitigated high morale tank and run away before he raged. It was never possible to be in range to heal the tank and be out of range of D's aoe at the same time. That was why it was a hard instance, especially if you lagged. I never got it on challenge on level-not because of the difficulty of healing the tank but because i got one shotted by the rage while getting out of healing range to safety In your example it seems you avoided the mechanics by AOE HPSing your way through the damage because you are overlevel overpowered and could. But you needed those aoe heals to get around both the mechanics and having a champ as a tank.

So I'm confused by the relevance of this example to my saying that I can heal anything at 95, specced red/left overs in blue-with the exceptions of some tier 2s and raid boss fights, that I already noted. A better example would be the 95 Iobars peak. Can you heal that traited red and in harmony or melody? Yep. Can you heal GG red? yep...Can you do school/library/fornost/OE/sari-suma/HV traited red? yep I can. Beanie can. Most grouping minstrels can. not because I'm special but because the other players I group with just don't need heals!!!!!!!!

As for my godmode gear and super hardcore playstyle? LOL. Me?

I just took off my second last piece of level 90 crafted jewellery and replaced it with a BB drop. I'm still wearing some purple gear drops/level 90 crafted. I have two second ages with level 9 relics and no crafted ones. I don't even have titles because I can't be bothered doing Wildermore or Hytbold grinds ever again for them. I just used tp for the baby title to change damage type to Beleriand. Yet I have TM -outgoing heals at 110% plus, my morale is about 14,700 and could be higher if i wasn't trying to put back some more crits. These are stats I have done nothing to max.

I don't PVP because I'm old and slow. I have no twitch reflexes and no situational awareness (it's a standing joke with my friends-if there's a mob behind me, I'll back into it). I never was good enough for some RoI tier2CM (Dargnakh, ToO) -even in kin runs. At 85 I could do most BfE challenge stuff on level with a well oiled raid kin but not a pug. But now I can heal 4 of us doing Helegrod spider wing raid in yellow spec or great Goblin Tier2CM in red(!?) or duo Hall of Night in either red or yellow. Screenshots to prove it if you want. Since you keep accusing me of exaggerating. It's not me being hardcore, it's the fact the tank doesn't need heals....

In short, I am a very average player who compensates for my physical shortcomings by knowing their class and anticipating the skills i need to use, and adapting to the players i am with. I like to use my mind rather than rely on my reactions. I loved my old minstrel because I could do exactly that.

TL: DR If I want to just relax I do quests or slayer deeds or craft or RP or chat. And no, I don't want everything super hard-i have said repeatedly in many threads that i have no issue with landscapes being very easy BUT If I do end game tier 2 CM I expect to be needed to heal the group, to have to think a bit, to do the instance as the mechanics intended, to use more than 1 or 2 OP skills, and to die frequently while trying to learn it. YMMV.

As a minstrel player myself, and one who's still learning how to play one as a healer to some degree, I follow what you and Beanie and some of the other high-level minstrels post because it's helpful to me as a novice. After reading this post the one thing that occurs to me is that our skill set as it stands seems to have been designed and implemented almost in a vacuum.

Sapience--if you're out there--I know you've been talking about doing a live stream dev chat/Q&A or two sometime soon. Could you try to get some of the devs who do class development together as a group? Perhaps the secret to getting balance where everyone's happy is having developers of other classes hear how we'd like our class to interact more with theirs. It seems like up until now a class's player feedback only is going to that class's developer.

[Mar-Evayave]

She wasn't talking about leveling a healer - she's talking about end game raiding as a healer.

Sorry, but she very clearly said "leveling":

Levelling is super easy. You can play a minstrel as a healer while watching tv and doing your nails.

She may have been speaking of end-game content at other points in her post, but that part specifically pointed to leveling as a healer. Or really in any stance.

EDIT: My guard and RK friend went into Fanghorn (75 6-man) and we 3-manned it T2c yesterday. We routinely do level 95 Sword Halls T2c without heals, as well as Iorbars Peak T2c and Great Goblin. School and library at 95 are a joke. We did Thadur yesterday to work deeds (so level 88) with just us 3. We've done 12-man skraids level 95 with just us 3 (others have soloed them). Godmode? No. Crafted or teal drop armour, BB jewelry for most pieces on me and the other 2 have a mish-mash of BB bling and drops. These are pieces that are available on the AH, through solo/duo BBs, and just crafting yourself or through kin/GLFF. I have a 2nd age sword and book, with symbols purchased through skirm camp and are available to anybody even if you don't do 12-man skirms and have one drop. I'm not sure what kind of godmode equipment you're referring to since there isn't anything in-game that's not available to solo players? With nothing but readily available gear I'm at almost 55k tactical mastery, just under 15k health, and I hit like a truck for AOE as well as one-shot damage. Want a lookout in GG prevented from bringing adds? Send the minstrel to one-shot him with Piercing Cry or Call to Fate. Want mobs dps'd down quickly for challenge? Send the minstrel with AOE. RK is traited fire line for AOE as well, rather than single target dps (that's my job). Healer? Why bother?

As for the godmode element (which I bolded to focus on it), all of those examples are in instances. And how many of them permitted you to paint your nails at the same time? With the mention of leveling and paint-your-nails-easy, I think a lot of the community who are more raid-oriented in their mindset and thus equip themselves likewise complain about how easy the rest of the game is by comparison. Raid gear for raids, okay. Raid gear for landscape or little 3-mans (or even 6-mans), that's different. I won't get into the quality of the current "raids", but the line needs to be drawn at that point. Expecting the landscape to still be challenging after equipping oneself for the old traditional raids is just setting oneself up for a disappointment. Your character improves as you go, but the landscape stays the same. The more you work, the less of a challenge it becomes. If that makes any sense. Almost midnight here, so no guarantees... xD

Leveling should teach you the full capabilites of your class, and there should be opportunities along the way to use the full gamut of your abilities. You're right, not everything should be a challenge while leveling, but to level simply by mashing buttons and the mob dies and you're in no danger of dying, what fun is that? Mob awareness, density and dps all play a part in this; I'm not saying that pie running in the Shire should put your character at risk of death, but some quest lines or areas should be more dangerous - it should be perilous to enter an on-level Angmarim camp in Angmar!

I can agree with that, but only with the same knowledge that I shouldn't bump elbows with an enemy every two feet as I move through that on-level Angmarim camp. Staying true to lore, it makes no sense to charge into an enemy camp and not have every single enemy come running towards me. So I prefer to use stealth to infiltrate the perimeter. In RL, if I was SWAT or a Navy Seal or whatever, I'd sneak in, complete my objective, and sneak out, hopefully without raising the alarm. So that on-level Angmarim camp needs to be reasonably empty to allow that.

Spacing of enemies (density) and mob awareness seem as it always has, within camps. They aren't all the same, of course. They stand in their little clusters as usual, with some patrolling around. It's late so I'm gonna be lazy atm and not figure out what the names of these camps are, but I'm thinking of that ruined "city" in the north-west corner of Broadacres and that enemy encampment in the middle-ish part of Stonedeans (as well as others all around). The mob density/awareness seems the same as it always has. No t so empty that there's not enough enemies, but not so full that I can't get around without being swarmed like flies to honey.

what Beanie said-since minstrels don't generally heal groups while levelling these days since they are not needed, i thought what i said was pretty clear. Levelling a minstrel is now easy. Group healing is boring and largely unnecessary. Buffing is broken. That leaves dps. Or being god mode in the moors.

Perhaps. I personally level with friends much of the time, so I do a fair bit of group-healing (be it on my cappy, my mini, or whatever).

I not surprised the champ needed healing-even though he's at officially at 75 Dargnakh still damages much more than any scaled 95 boss I have yet encountered. You used to have to run in to heal the heavily mitigated high morale tank and run away before he raged. It was never possible to be in range to heal the tank and be out of range of D's aoe at the same time. That was why it was a hard instance, especially if you lagged. I never got it on challenge on level-not because of the difficulty of healing the tank but because i got one shotted by the rage while getting out of healing range to safety In your example it seems you avoided the mechanics by AOE HPSing your way through the damage because you are overlevel overpowered and could. But you needed those aoe heals to get around both the mechanics and having a champ as a tank.

Actually, if it weren't for Dargnakh's rage, I could have soloed it in my red/yellow tree in Harmony/Melody. It was just that his rage-stomp would deal 10k morale. Even if I was at full health when his rage begins, I'd die by the second stomp. Minstrels, with their light armor and reduced health, just aren't designed to withstand that kind of assault. And actually, at the time that 75 was lvl-cap, my minstrel had probably 9k morale or thereabouts. Here at 95, I have about 14k. For the ultimate win, I was blue-tree in Resonance, so my Coda had just a long enough range to reach the champ but not so close that I was caught in the brunt of the rage. So during the entire rage I could stand still and throw the champ heals with my coda (and other heals). I definitely do remember this 3-man at lvl 75. It was tough. Being 20 levels above, it did keep me on my toes (going in solo). I did completely solo Fangorn's Edge T2C. It was close, though. I also know all too well about lag. I never was able to finish ToO Acid. -.- The acid rising caught me every time.

As to the relevance, it was to point out that that I could not win that fight in red/yellow and Harmony/Melody. And it wasn't for lack of equipment or skill. I had to go blue in Resonance. And while in Resonance I certainly wasn't doing the bulk of the DPS (though that did, in part, have to do with my range).

Also, please let me make it very clear: it is by no means my intention to accuse you of anything. I despise the EBs, so I haven't really gotten more than a few good drops from that. The EBs totally remove any necessity for classes in general (escept that a DPS AoE class like a champ has a heck of an easier time than others), and they are hair-pullingly frustrating to duo, much more so to solo, particularly with the amount of lag I experience in there. I got my 6 lvl-cap toons through for their epics, and won't go back to further their experience any time soon.

PS: Isn't Helegrod still on a fixed level setting? Being so very below level-cap, I'm not really surprised that 4 95s can run Helegrod, on any tier. *shrug*

PS 2: I have to agree with SouthernBelle -- sure would be nice if we could get all the class devs to finally just sit down, sit still, and answer questions. And, just as important, make the appropriate changes. One thing I really do not like to read is stuff like, "This is always an ongoing procedure and we'll continue to make tweaks and other adjustments as we go." Because, seriously, this makes it sound very slow. As in, any slower and we'd be moving backwards, in the exact direction we're trying to get away from. We had the class changes dumped on is. Sure, we had advance warning, but it wasn't little bit by little bit. It was a big change implemented all at the same time. To have teensy (unnoticeable?) tweaks added over time makes me feel like I'm stuck in quicksand... Do something!

[Beaniemooch]

As for the godmode element (which I bolded to focus on it), all of those examples are in instances. And how many of them permitted you to paint your nails at the same time? With the mention of leveling and paint-your-nails-easy, I think a lot of the community who are more raid-oriented in their mindset and thus equip themselves likewise complain about how easy the rest of the game is by comparison. Raid gear for raids, okay. Raid gear for landscape or little 3-mans (or even 6-mans), that's different. I won't get into the quality of the current "raids", but the line needs to be drawn at that point. Expecting the landscape to still be challenging after equipping oneself for the old traditional raids is just setting oneself up for a disappointment. Your character improves as you go, but the landscape stays the same. The more you work, the less of a challenge it becomes. If that makes any sense. Almost midnight here, so no guarantees... xD

Perhaps. I personally level with friends much of the time, so I do a fair bit of group-healing (be it on my cappy, my mini, or whatever).

PS: Isn't Helegrod still on a fixed level setting? Being so very below level-cap, I'm not really surprised that 4 95s can run Helegrod, on any tier. *shrug*

PS 2: I have to agree with SouthernBelle -- sure would be nice if we could get all the class devs to finally just sit down, sit still, and answer questions. And, just as important, make the appropriate changes. One thing I really do not like to read is stuff like, "This is always an ongoing procedure and we'll continue to make tweaks and other adjustments as we go." Because, seriously, this makes it sound very slow. As in, any slower and we'd be moving backwards, in the exact direction we're trying to get away from. We had the class changes dumped on is. Sure, we had advance warning, but it wasn't little bit by little bit. It was a big change implemented all at the same time. To have teensy (unnoticeable?) tweaks added over time makes me feel like I'm stuck in quicksand... Do something!

I've trimmed down your post to the parts I wanted to reply to.

I'm wearing crafted and big battle gear. I'm not sure how that is godmode considering crafted is...crafted, and big battles are available to everybody solo. That's how I did most of mine to get my jewelry. I'm not using raid gear, it's solo gear. I am godmode in instances and raids because the class is unbalanced. The examples were in instances, instances in which no healing was required. I was fully red-line. I do my nails while healing with one button during undermanned 12-man T3 skirmish raids. My newly started minstrel is now 64-1/2 after 2 weeks of playing, wearing quest gear and a couple teals she picked up in 3-man on-level instances. She's been one-shotting mobs since the intro when she had NO gear. Landscape mobs takes a piercing cry and call to fate and they're dead. Sometimes just a piercing cry. It's not the gear, it's not the level, it's the lack of balance in the game.

I frequently level with friends, since my 2 best friends play this game and we like to play together. But nobody needs heals, because questing and landscape is super easy (and it is reasonable to keep it so).

Helegrod is scaled. 4 level 95s did it at level 95. 4 people took down a 12 man instanced raid on-level.

We have heard so little from the minstrel dev since the beginning of time. I'm not sure why she chooses not to respond or interact with us, but it is frustrating. I would like to sit and chat with her about the class I love so much.

[Mar-Evayave]

I've trimmed down your post to the parts I wanted to reply to.

I'm wearing crafted and big battle gear. I'm not sure how that is godmode considering crafted is...crafted, and big battles are available to everybody solo. That's how I did most of mine to get my jewelry. I'm not using raid gear, it's solo gear. I am godmode in instances and raids because the class is unbalanced. The examples were in instances, instances in which no healing was required. I was fully red-line. I do my nails while healing with one button during undermanned 12-man T3 skirmish raids. My newly started minstrel is now 64-1/2 after 2 weeks of playing, wearing quest gear and a couple teals she picked up in 3-man on-level instances. She's been one-shotting mobs since the intro when she had NO gear. Landscape mobs takes a piercing cry and call to fate and they're dead. Sometimes just a piercing cry. It's not the gear, it's not the level, it's the lack of balance in the game.

I frequently level with friends, since my 2 best friends play this game and we like to play together. But nobody needs heals, because questing and landscape is super easy (and it is reasonable to keep it so).

Helegrod is scaled. 4 level 95s did it at level 95. 4 people took down a 12 man instanced raid on-level.

We have heard so little from the minstrel dev since the beginning of time. I'm not sure why she chooses not to respond or interact with us, but it is frustrating. I would like to sit and chat with her about the class I love so much.

I guess it would partially depend on the type of crafted gear. I have 1 friend in game that grinds her way to getting max-level guild-crafted armor and 2nd agers for all her toons - and she doesn't PvP or raid at all! She rarely even does smaller instances, and those only with her friends. That's a lot of unnecessary effort if she's only going to do PvE landscape content. For that reason, I doubt many players go through so much for so little return. Usually it's the PvP and raiding crowd that bother with that grind (and it's more grindy than ever, with the Emerald Shards having such a pathetic drop rate).

Much of the comment about "godmode" gear had to do with the original comment of leveling being too easy in combination with comments regarding raid content. Unless players "dumbed down" their equipment (removed their raiding setup when on landscape, and donning something of lesser value), then of course that PvE landscape content is going to be easier during the leveling process. Everyone with their raid-oriented setup from lvl 85 is going to find it easier to lvl to 95 than the casual player who didn't bother with all of the extra bells and whistles.

I'm definitely not disputing how unbalanced everything is. Mobs are squishy, and some mobs don't make any sense at all (how I can solo a raid warband in a lvl 95 area at lvl 95 and get creamed in two seconds flat by a 6-man warband in a lvl 85 area at lvl 95 makes zero sense). It's all one big convoluted mess. I am surprised about your newbie minstrel, though. I also rolled a new minstrel (on Landroval) and she's in Evendim currently. On my Riddermark toons I'm a completionist so I always end up hideously over-leveled, but on Landroval I'm going to play her in areas that are on-level (so I'll be skipping a lot of content). But I have not been one-shotting stuff at all with any skill (except maybe a few crows, I dunno). I also have just regular landscape/quest gear. If I didn't know any better, I'd wonder if the servers are unbalanced. O.o Then again, I wonder if perhaps it has to do with how many trait points one has spent. I work on my class deeds as often as I can, but I still don't have a lot of trait points just yet. Naturally you'll have way more than me at lvl 65, but still... I have not experienced the 1-shot-since-intro thing. :/

Raid gear in raids (or other instance settings) makes sense. I expect one's mileage will vary based on their own setup. All I can say is that I have not experienced a situation in which I could heal effectively while in red/yellow. That said, I traditionally run in Harmony/Melody except in the most demanding of raids. I prefer the AoE heal on my Coda to the single-target heal. So in that regard I'm not necessarily always in a full-out healing setups.

I didn't hear that Helegrod was scaled. When did that happen? And Deviled_Egg is our dev, right?

[Dernudan]

Ya, there have been no new raids, but Turbine has created 2 new completely revolutionary things that have never been done before. And they did them very well even though there are no new raids that came with them.

First, mounted combat was essential in creating Rohan in a lore friendly way, and they executed it in a great way and much better than anything that has ever been done before.

Secondly, they put in Big Battles, which also were both fun and revolutionary in mmos. Each NPC has its own specific goal. Big Battles may not have been as fun as raids but they are still entertaining and essential to really do the major battles that are the main part of the LOTR lore.

These past few years might not have been as fun as previous ones, but think about it. The things that Turbine has put into the game during that time will greatly pay off later down the road.

[Beaniemooch]

Ya, there have been no new raids, but Turbine has created 2 new completely revolutionary things that have never been done before. And they did them very well even though there are no new raids that came with them.

First, mounted combat was essential in creating Rohan in a lore friendly way, and they executed it in a great way and much better than anything that has ever been done before.

Secondly, they put in Big Battles, which also were both fun and revolutionary in mmos. Each NPC has its own specific goal. Big Battles may not have been as fun as raids but they are still entertaining and essential to really do the major battles that are the main part of the LOTR lore.

These past few years might not have been as fun as previous ones, but think about it. The things that Turbine has put into the game during that time will greatly pay off later down the road.

You listed the two things in lotro I dislike most. Mounted combat, which is pointless in my opinion except to get someplace faster than a regular horse. When I run across a mob on the landscape I need to/want to kill I get off my warsteed because it's faster to kill it on foot.

Big battles - Absolutely zero fun in my book. In fact, I despise the mechanics and the RNG for loot. I really can't say anything good about them. Helms Dike is the least offensive of the 5.

[zagreb000]

i have a question... among us there are people with significantly larger incomes... specifically those interested in investment.... would it be possible to invest in turbine (maybe even a donation) but in a way that the investment is used to improve lotro... meaning that it would not be used on other projects like Ac, ddo or ic..

being an economist and knowing how investment works on the global scale and im fully aware its highly unlikely but.... can something be done if you wanted to support the game outside spending cash directly on the game? which again does not ensure that that cash will actually be spent on improving lotro...

[Eldarian_Grace]

i have a question... among us there are people with significantly larger incomes... specifically those interested in investment.... would it be possible to invest in turbine (maybe even a donation) but in a way that the investment is used to improve lotro... meaning that it would not be used on other projects like Ac, ddo or ic..

being an economist and knowing how investment works on the global scale and im fully aware its highly unlikely but.... can something be done if you wanted to support the game outside spending cash directly on the game? which again does not ensure that that cash will actually be spent on improving lotro...

You could always get a consortium together and buy turbine subsidiaries from WB . or if you've got really rich friends try buy WB. Perhaps a cheaper, smarter move would be to try and do likewise with the rights holder, middle earth enterprises (Saul Zaentz company - recently deceased). You might be able to exert creative pressure from that position, who knows.

Good luck with your endeavors.

[Lohi]

You listed the two things in lotro I dislike most. Mounted combat, which is pointless in my opinion except to get someplace faster than a regular horse. When I run across a mob on the landscape I need to/want to kill I get off my warsteed because it's faster to kill it on foot.

Maybe you're not skilled up in mounted combat, because I often mount up to kill things faster. And there are enemies that are amazingly annoying to kill when not mounted, as in always moving out of melee range, even moving out of ranged range. And certainly enemies that are much more difficult to kill on foot than otherwise (warbands).

Sorry you don't like it, and you can skip it if you want. But it was not a waste just because you think so.

[Calta]

Maybe you're not skilled up in mounted combat, because I often mount up to kill things faster. And there are enemies that are amazingly annoying to kill when not mounted, as in always moving out of melee range, even moving out of ranged range. And certainly enemies that are much more difficult to kill on foot than otherwise (warbands).

Sorry you don't like it, and you can skip it if you want. But it was not a waste just because you think so.

It has NOTHING to do with skill. My minstrel hits harder unmounted at range than my warsteed does. And no, thats not because I am dumb and don't know how to set up my warsteed-just to pre-empt that argument. It is because it flexible and easier to manoevre on foot due to lag, and because my minstrel's Call to Fate hits harder than my damage coda on my mount. And it has no induction.

The only time this is not the case is when soloing the raid and fellowship warbands with fast moving warg riders, and even then, I can target some of them and then one/two* shot them as they come past and back in range, using my inductionless skills.[edit and I don't lose trarget like i do on the warhorse due to hitching.] Heck I could solo one of the raid monsters in Monsters and madness quest on foot in quest gear and didn't even realise it was a raid quest-just thought it was an elite mob, until I checked the quest.

This ability was not the case in RoR, where I had to use MC-even though I lagged and rubber banded across the landscape so badly my fellows could see it on the mini map. It improved after several months and patches to be playable-just.

As I don't need to gimp myself in fights in HD by riding my warhorse, I dont.

I mostly use my warhorse to heal others a bit in random groups to share the loot and to get from a to b in hostile zones. Sometimes when I am not lagging I ride in figure 8s around mobs wiping them out, just to stay in practice. It's handy for swifter travelling in lower level areas though.

Perhaps you should reconsider: "it's not a good mechanic, just because you think so."

Edit-to be accurate*This was before last patch. I haven't been in Rohan for a few weeks.

[Beaniemooch]

Maybe you're not skilled up in mounted combat, because I often mount up to kill things faster. And there are enemies that are amazingly annoying to kill when not mounted, as in always moving out of melee range, even moving out of ranged range. And certainly enemies that are much more difficult to kill on foot than otherwise (warbands).

Sorry you don't like it, and you can skip it if you want. But it was not a waste just because you think so.

I never said it was a waste for anyone else. I said I dislike it. My minstrel is 95, my warsteed is maxed, I have a maxed bridle, I can AOE entire zones (while pulling from the next), and yet it's still faster to kill everything but a warband on foot. This is due to the incredibly high dps I have on foot as a minstrel. I take on warbands mounted so I can kite them, but I can solo Bethan and any melee warband in the game. Again, it's not that I'm not good at it (I believe in working at things before dismissing them) it's that I don't see a point in mounted combat. I simply don't like it. This also has no bearing on how anybody else does or should feel about it.

My comment before was the two things that had been pointed out as being improvements to the game were the two things I like least about it. My feelings, my characters. I'm a R6 in Big Battles because I made sure I was able to work through them and understand them. My warsteed has been maxed forever. I just don't like big battles and mounted combat, so I don't see them as real additions to the game FOR ME.

[New_Requiem]

Feel like im one of the only creeps who would like to see new mechanics (catapults) to pvmp.... FTW

[TheCrossbow]

You listed the two things in lotro I dislike most. Mounted combat, which is pointless in my opinion except to get someplace faster than a regular horse. When I run across a mob on the landscape I need to/want to kill I get off my warsteed because it's faster to kill it on foot.

Big battles - Absolutely zero fun in my book. In fact, I despise the mechanics and the RNG for loot. I really can't say anything good about them. Helms Dike is the least offensive of the 5.

While I do *like* both mounted combat and big battles... I do think they are both examples of occasions when the developers (IMHO) missed out on the opportunity to really take advantage of 2 mechanics that are (IIRC) relatively new to MMOs.

Why did the developers not introduce a few instances where mounted combat raids would have been fun and make use of the interaction of the buffs each class and size of steed brings? Sure, it might have been a little extra laggy for some people... but it would have been fun... and a reason to actually work on a good warsteed build... you don't even need a good war steed build for the few times you actually need to do mounted combat.

I still don't understand why the Big Battles were not used as a major source of new raids. I understand the need to make them solo-able for the sake of the epics... but all 5 battles should have been constructed to allow up to 12 people... I'd argue Helms Dike and Deeping Wall could have been 24-man raids (which we only have 1 24-man raid in the game).

This is why I did raise the question about the developers having an adequate long-term vision for the game. There are quite a few aspects of the game that are nice features... but feel like there are missed opportunities to really take advantage of those features.... and some of those features would be considered RP aspects too.

[bobbylobs]

i have a question... among us there are people with significantly larger incomes... specifically those interested in investment.... would it be possible to invest in turbine (maybe even a donation) but in a way that the investment is used to improve lotro... meaning that it would not be used on other projects like Ac, ddo or ic..

being an economist and knowing how investment works on the global scale and im fully aware its highly unlikely but.... can something be done if you wanted to support the game outside spending cash directly on the game? which again does not ensure that that cash will actually be spent on improving lotro...

Surely as an economist and an investor you would realise the answer to this is no, once you have given your money to turbine they can do with it as they please, you could try and stipulate that your investment can only be used on x,y or z , but how do you police that? what if they just stick in the bank and x,y and z is closed? there is no way to prove that your investment has been specifically used on lotro, they may decide to not spend it for say 12 months, then turn around and say oh yeah that invesment you made we spent that over the last 12 months on new batteries for all our lotro devs mice, that $xxxx used on IC? oh thats nothing thats just some cash we had lying around.

The same thing happens when people give money to political parties, they hope it gets used on subjects that effect them say a taxi driver donating in the hope it gets some potholes fixed, but once its theirs they can spend it on upgrading flights if they please.

edit,
dont confuse "donation" with "investment" the two are very very different things, when you donate to a charity you can do so with stipulations, not with an investment to a company, allthough I suppose if you invest enough and get yourself on the board or a senior role you may get a say


However your question is a good one, how do you go about supporting lotro, whilst ensuring that money isnt used elsewhere?

[Beaniemooch]

I'd argue Helms Dike and Deeping Wall could have been 24-man raids (which we only have 1 24-man raid in the game).

Which raid is 24 man now? Helegrod was downscaled to 12 when it was broken into wings.

[bobbylobs]

Which raid is 24 man now? Helegrod was downscaled to 12 when it was broken into wings.

Draigoch still has a 24 option does it not?

And I think you can still do dragon wing helegrod with 24 people too

[Beaniemooch]

Draigoch still has a 24 option does it not?

And I think you can still do dragon wing helegrod with 24 people too

You are correct about Draigoch, I'd forgotten you could take in 24 (nobody ever does that I've seen). Thanks for the reminder.

Helegrod is 12 man now, not 24. Not even for the final boss.

[bobbylobs]

You are correct about Draigoch, I'd forgotten you could take in 24 (nobody ever does that I've seen). Thanks for the reminder.

Helegrod is 12 man now, not 24. Not even for the final boss.

ah ok, yeah never seen a 24 man draigoch raid myself either, I have seen one attempted to be filled on global but they got stuck at 13/24, dunno who they kicked though to go with 12

edit,

just checked in game there is still a 24 man raid option for dragon wing helegrod