The Return of Landy PvMP?

[Corwelleon]

I thought I’d start a new thread in the right place for us to discuss current PvMP action on Landy. Although spotty during the day, it seems that prime time (8 - 12 pm server time) has really been picking up. Although I mostly Creep on my WL or Spider, I found that a Warden or Blue Line Cappy can be quite useful in the Moors Freepside.

Last night was some of the best action I’ve seen outside of a Tuesday raid night event. Both sides worked hard to claim victories and overcome defeats. Approaching some balance??

Yes, BA traps are still OP and barrage needs to be interrupted. Freeps healz need some buffing, which is just what a Cappy can do. Did I say that Bears are back?

Nice to see the burg pack trying to pick off the unaware and cause mischief. Working with the Froup or Fraid is a must! Keep the communication flowing if you don’t want to group and all will go well.

It remains to be seen if Tuesday full-on Raids can be as much fun as smaller group and half raids. I’ll be stepping up the Creeps, so the Freeps better bring their A game and work well together.

See you in the game!

[Tirithion]

There's been some decent action the last couple nights. I would like to help that continue.

Personally I'm more of a solo and small group type of player, but I'm not opposed to raids. What I've noticed in the last few months I've been back, is that Creep side is significantly more organized than Freepside at the moment, and I believe that is mostly thanks to you Cor. Solo/Duo lately has been fun, yet frustrating as the creeps I run into are usually numbered in the 4-8 range and I evaporate in an engagement.

When I do find a lonely creep, the call out game is real. What was a 1v1 or a 2v1 turns into a 4 or 5v1 pretty quickly. Fair enough, I get it. For the most part, the Freeps I find are in a similar position as I am, solo or small group, but we are not working with each other to coherently counter the Creeps. So I'm going to try and make a effort to attempt to lead Freepside when you or Yail aren't on as we've seen that fun, balanced, action is possible when both sides are organized.

No one truly enjoys a GV Shuffle, but when Freeps are outnumbered there aren't many options besides the Shuffle or fighting near a rez circle. NPCs are so pathetically weak they aren't a threat, it eliminates action at Keeps/Hoarhollow/EC/OC when numbers are imbalanced which leaves areas near One Shotters the only areas to fight.


~Tirith

[Morgorth]

Ok, we'll do this then.

Topic seems to be PvMP on Landy so I think it's time to address a worrying attitude that has permeated the PvMP community. I have experienced this personally and have seen friends castigated because of it and frankly, it's horse manure. People will remain nameless and you can't shame the shameless so lets begin with my personal experience;

"If you're going to be a member of our Tribe, you can't bring your Freep to the Moors."
Is what I was told by not one but two Creep players who decided to double team me one day after I switched to Creep to help out with numbers (this was a while back when Freeps were in the ascendancy). It's a short sentence - and I'll get to my response a little further down the page - a short sentence but think of the overall connotations contained within those words. There have been other instances I've heard of. One involving a Kinnie of mine who is the nicest, kindest, most dedicated player I've come across in a long time being told something along the same lines. There's so much of this. I know of one player that actively switches to Creepside to yell into OOC about Creeps playing their Freeps on the moors, occasional, when numbers are poor on that side and who vocally embraces the opinion; "and I damn sure don't grp with creeps disgused as freeps" - his spelling, not mine - and that is his right. If he wan't to sit on the stairs, alone, bemoaning Life, the Universe and Everything he certainly can, alone. What he CANNOT do however is tell any player who pays money to play this game what they can and cannot do. Absolutely not.

When I was told "If you're going to be a member of our Tribe, you can't bring your Freep to the Moors." the solution was simple, for me. I left the tribe. Immediately. I pay to play this game and will play any side I want on any toon I want. The kinnie I mentioned wanted to quit PvMP because (unlike me) he was worried about offending people because he's a nice guy, a kind guy and when people questioned his dedication he took it to heart.

PvMP is symbiotic.
Creeps need Freeps. Freeps need Creeps. Otherwise all we have in another monotonous PVE grind to add to a game already filled with countless monotonous PVE grinds. Players who actively strive to achieve the impossible task of balance and fairness shouldn't be harassed, abused or even frowned upon. They shouldn't be made to feel like that have to leave a Kin or a Tribe or PvMP altogether. They should be held up and treated with respect and yes, thanked for doing not what they want to do but what they feel is best for both sides of the PvMP coin.

And the people who feel that they have the right to tell a person what they can and cannot do, in a game they pay good money to play, need a cold, hard reality check.

[dsltn07]

I think that’s just people being jerks Morgorth.
In December I was in voice chat with my kin leader, being relatively new to the kin I was trying to get to know people better. With ered Mithrin i’d just started up playing again. The LP store came up somehow in conversation and I mentioned I had used an aria for an alt previously and it seemed to work well. The kin leader then proceeded to scream at me about how much of a scam it is and that I shouldn’t support the system at all, how I’m a brand new player who knows nothing in the game, how she’s played Lotro for 9 years and I’m awful because I used an in game service. Worse, when I tried to apologize for causing some sort of issue I was told to shut up.

I’ve since left the kin.

It’s sickening and shocking that another person will treat you like this over something so trivial.

Edit to add that this was not a PvMP kin and just a personal anecdote of how people treat others via internet. I was not a member to NiEx and this was unrelated to them.

[Corwelleon]

Thank you for those who have got the conversation started. Let’s keep it going... all viewpoints welcome and good to see others out having fun and stepping up their game to help bring the Moors back to life.

I could not agree more with the last two posts regarding player attitudes of Creep vs Freep or allow me to dictate how to play this game... and you are WRONG if you believe otherwise! ;-)

I want to publicly apologize on behalf of one or two of my Tribe that were involved with the “you can’t creep if you Freep or more accurately, if I recall correctly, “you can’t kill your Tribe members when you Freep.” When I learned of this, I spoke to each Tribe member directly and then made it clear that NiEx has just a very few basic rules:

1. Respect each Other and Your Competition
2. Whichever faction you are playing, play to win and show no mercy, and expect none in return
3. Have fun!!

The altercation, which did happen some time ago in U22 was possibly the result of frustration of how OP burgs and hunters were back in the one-shot days. So, you were a convenient target as a very good Burg- who actually pulled many punches to allow for some balance. I pointed that out to all as well.

With U23 the shoe moved to the other foot and the Freeps needed some help. So, our Tribe responded by not only sending help, but by sending LEADERS. Yes, Yail, Elle, Tiger, Megalito and yours truly all prefer to Creep and are Tribe leaders. Now, half of us, on any given day, are doing our level-headed best to be the Freeps to compete and stay true to our three core rules above.

We all understand how some view this as high treason! We each have taken more than our fair share of grief for daring to help and daring to create a competitive community. I am sure it’s because “that’s just not the way it was done.” Well, true... when the community was vibrant you could pick your faction and play it. Now, the community is gasping and anemic- near death most of the time, but showing signs of life.

I trust that NiEx members today would handle the situation far differently. You are welcome to Creep with us whenever you wish, but I suspect the Freeps need all the help they can get... and are getting some!

Thanks again, and see you in the game!

[Skoch]

The whole "Us vs Them" "Rah-Rah-Rah mentality never made sense to me. We're all players, playing a game.
People getting all worked up over This Side or That Side is one of the saddest and lowliest social phenomena that I've ever witnessed.
Folks need to just try to game, and that's it. Just play. Forget the rest, enjoy yourself, and stop telling others who, what, when, why, and how they should be playing.
Of course, I haven't been on Landy Moors for awhile now, nor Landroval for that matter.
However, the same ol' same ol' behaviorism keeps showing up here, there, and everywhere.
Just throwin' my 2 cents in, for whatever it's worth.
Anyhoo, gotta commend everyone posting their thoughts in here and even more admiration toward those who are still out there fighting the fight.
Miss y'all!

[sapienze]

What can men do against such reckless hate?

Wait... Hold a sec.

I know.
We can all be one happy family. It'll be great. Even awesome.



But...

If we are happy cozy and cuddly, why are we killing each other? Oh that's right. We are playing a game where we choose a faction and try to prevail. Sounds competitive doesn't it? Is this the kind of competition where everyone gets a gold medal or its the kind where someone wins and someone loses? If we are all gasping for life then why are we doing anything but looking for fresh air? Maybe it is just the fact players are used to inhaling used breath depriving themselves of oxygen while being smothered in happiness. "Mister, say it aint so."

I can't take any conversation on this topic seriously and no one else should as well. After all are not you all adults? We all do what we want and if others don't like it they need to grow up. All this serious face posturing in an MMO. Who would have ever guessed?


The man sitting on the steps likely has lived more life than all of you combine. He understands conviction, loyalty, respect and consequence. If you all had a clue, you wouldn't be harassing him. If you don't like his words then get over it.

Its time for you all to grow up and accept you aren't the center of the universe.

[Morgorth]

I can't take any conversation on this topic seriously and no one else should as well.

Thank you, Splay.

You could have completely ignored this thread but instead you've selflessly come here and proved my point succinctly.

You're a star!

[Scafna]

What can men do against such reckless hate?

Wait... Hold a sec.

I know.
We can all be one happy family. It'll be great. Even awesome.



But...

If we are happy cozy and cuddly, why are we killing each other? Oh that's right. We are playing a game where we choose a faction and try to prevail. Sounds competitive doesn't it? Is this the kind of competition where everyone gets a gold medal or its the kind where someone wins and someone loses? If we are all gasping for life then why are we doing anything but looking for fresh air? Maybe it is just the fact players are used to inhaling used breath depriving themselves of oxygen while being smothered in happiness. "Mister, say it aint so."

I can't take any conversation on this topic seriously and no one else should as well. After all are not you all adults? We all do what we want and if others don't like it they need to grow up. All this serious face posturing in an MMO. Who would have ever guessed?


The man sitting on the steps likely has lived more life than all of you combine. He understands conviction, loyalty, respect and consequence. If you all had a clue, you wouldn't be harassing him. If you don't like his words then get over it.

Its time for you all to grow up and accept you aren't the center of the universe.

/fishslap

[Corwelleon]

As I said earlier, all viewpoints are welcome. Even when it’s Splay’s! ;-)

Lest anyone think I lack respect for a certain hunter with great life experience, I sincerely apologize for that misperception. We respect his right to do as he pleases. He should also know that he is welcome to run with us, cooordinate with us or just stumble on us when Freeping. He is also highly encouraged to hunt us down and kill us when Creeping. We will return the favor!

The point of the thread is that adults can have fun in many ways and we are heartened to see more folks out doing their thing. We want to build on this, and trolling or dictating what is acceptable or not is not helpful. In fact, we have had to cajole folks back to the Moors who were so offended they stopped playing. Maybe to some adults, offending others is acceptable behavior, but I suspect most of us got over that after Middle School...

The other point was to encourage each faction to work collectively for victory as solo Freeps have a severe disadvantage in U23 but when working together can win and win big. Same lesson the Creeps learned in U22. Trolling your allies is not an effective way to do this.

See you in the game!

[errow]

Is Splay's very life experienced Hunter a certain Hunter whom is always /sitting on the steps?

[Scafna]

As I said earlier, all viewpoints are welcome. Even when it’s Splay’s! ;-)

Lest anyone think I lack respect for a certain hunter with great life experience, I sincerely apologize for that misperception. We respect his right to do as he pleases. He should also know that he is welcome to run with us, cooordinate with us or just stumble on us when Freeping. He is also highly encouraged to hunt us down and kill us when Creeping. We will return the favor!

The point of the thread is that adults can have fun in many ways and we are heartened to see more folks out doing their thing. We want to build on this, and trolling or dictating what is acceptable or not is not helpful. In fact, we have had to cajole folks back to the Moors who were so offended they stopped playing. Maybe to some adults, offending others is acceptable behavior, but I suspect most of us got over that after Middle School...

The other point was to encourage each faction to work collectively for victory as solo Freeps have a severe disadvantage in U23 but when working together can win and win big. Same lesson the Creeps learned in U22. Trolling your allies is not an effective way to do this.

See you in the game!

Let me be very clear.....splay is not my ally, nor is he capable of being an ally to anyone.


Not even you can control the form.

[sapienze]

Thank you, Splay.

You could have completely ignored this thread but instead you've selflessly come here and proved my point succinctly.

You're a star!

You could have completely ignored me here and I would be fine with it. I made it a point to name no one. I made it a point to shame no one.

Instead through your selfishness come here and prove my point succinctly.

If you are a star, I've never seen you shine. Though I can say, my world isn't lessened by this truth.

[Morgorth]

You could have completely ignored me here and I would be fine with it. I made it a point to name no one. I made it a point to shame no one.

Instead through your selfishness come here and prove my point succinctly.

If you are a star, I've never seen you shine. Though I can say, my world isn't lessened by this truth.

My bad, I thought we were having an adult conversation but your "I know you are, you said you are but what am I?" elementary school attitude leads me to believe I was wrong and you are right. You should be ignored. Done and done.

[sapienze]

My bad, I thought we were having an adult conversation but your "I know you are, you said you are but what am I?" elementary school attitude leads me to believe I was wrong and you are right. You should be ignored. Done and done.

Nice try. If you really wanted an adult conversation your words wouldn't have been loaded with sarcasm. So you don't like to eat the dish you serve and then consider it elementary. Your path in this was predetermined and we both know it. You did the same in game so it was fully expected here.

[subadar]

hey buddy,

i dont know why every post where i call you out gets deleted but we all know what you're about

see you in the moors!

[Scafna]

Nice try. If you really wanted an adult conversation your words wouldn't have been loaded with sarcasm. So you don't like to eat the dish you serve and then consider it elementary. Your path in this was predetermined and we both know it. You did the same in game so it was fully expected here.

/fishslap

[Kate00]

I dont think you people realize that the certain hunter that is always sitting on GV stairs is rank 15. I'll explain it to you...

when you pvp you earn infamy or renown when you kill the opposing force. those points earn you ranks. there are only 15 ranks in lotro pvp. once you hit rank 15 you get no more points. you can kill as many of the opposing force as you want and you get NOTHING. there is no exception to this. this is the way the game works. rank 15 = no more points.

I've been hearing you freeps on landy are having a hard time. Staying alive and killing anything that is. Especially the burgs. Dont take your frustrations out on other players because you are unable to adapt and play your class after years of you easymoding.

[errow]

when you pvp you earn infamy or renown when you kill the opposing force. those points earn you ranks. there are only 15 ranks in lotro pvp. once you hit rank 15 you get no more points. you can kill as many of the opposing force as you want and you get NOTHING. there is no exception to this. this is the way the game works. rank 15 = no more points.

Very true, why would anyone PVMP if they aren't getting rewarded through rank progression?

I can't think of a single other reason. Especially none in relation to why the thread was even made originally.

[Corwelleon]

Very true, why would anyone PVMP if they aren't getting rewarded through rank progression?

I can't think of a single other reason. Especially none in relation to why the thread was even made originally.

Oh, I suspect there are many R15s who play this game not for rank progression (obviously) but because they enjoy it. I see several R15s on Ark each time I play there. Someday, I may hit R15 and will enjoy the notoriety.

Returning to the original subject: for those who have been out in the Moors, thank you! It almost died, and now there is a pulse. In fact, I was on Ark Friday for the marathon GV camp and moved to Landy where there was real action (mostly inside TR, but Delving buffs were taken etc).

May I also note that if more Freeps continue to show up, those that enjoy solo play will not feel they are getting zerged by a hard-core half raid of Creeps that enjoy playing together?

See you in the game!

[Kate00]

Very true, why would anyone PVMP if they aren't getting rewarded through rank progression?

I can't think of a single other reason. Especially none in relation to why the thread was even made originally.

Alright then I'll reply to the topic of the thread.

The reason pvp on Landy is so bad is because most creeps transferred off the server to arkenstone for better action or just quit all together because freeps were so over powered. The action and population further declined when creeps befriended the freeps and spent their time role playing, rank farming, and basically feeding the freeps free renown. This was largely due to the creeps which switched to freep side because they simply wanted to win. They didnt want good action they wanted to farm. I'm not sure cordovan would approve of me giving out a list of names of these 'flippers' but its no secret so i'm sure you know who they are. This created a massive imbalance on the population of freep/creep with freeps having the numbers to wipe creeps off the map till they logged even though they only needed half the numbers they brought out because they were so over powered at the time. The last of the decent creeps transferred off the sever and what you have left is the result of a bad community and the failures of ssg.

With this last update pvp on all servers has not gotten better. Quite simply freeps do not understand how to play their class, build a group, or implement strategy. They are so used to being over powered for so long they haven't needed to learn. I suppose that's not entirely their fault. I mostly play on arkenstone early in the morning while I have my coffee when I do get around to playing the game. I from time to time pop in on landy with the few creeps I have left there. On arkenstone freeps dont leave gv. Some will sneak out flip and op but they map straight back to gv and wait to be camped. The other few freeps that leave once spotted by a creep will simply just ride away. For example. At the moment theres a hunter on Arkenstone that when he sees me, even though i'm alone, he df's. EVERY TIME. This same hunter spent the last year one shooting creeps at grams and now well hes scared to leave the steps and rarely does. Now, when I log on to Landy in the mornings there is nothing. Maybe 1 or 2 creeps out trying to pve their rank and get maps but there are absolutely no freeps. Landy has pvp twice a week during a scheduled time. The action is not going to get better, nor is it going to change because of the community that is left there. I mean when freeps are harassing players that are on their own side, like that rank 15 hunter for not pvping, well that says a lot.

In closing I'd like to remind freeps that creeps are NOT over powered. This is the closest thing to balance we have had in years. Simply put, as freeps told creeps the whole two years they were getting one shot, "you need to learn to play". Only this time it just happens to be true.

[subadar]

all the casual pvp heros that went to ark on freeps were just that, casual players. you didnt need much skill to freep period. theres a reason pvmp died on all the servers causing migration to ark for pvp.

and yes balance now is better than its ever been for creeps, probably a bit under if a freep has all new raid gear.

theres the rub, few of those pvp'rs on ark are raiders, they'll never get raid gear and probably will never leave GV. the amount of raiders that want to bother with pvp is also pretty small percentage i'll bet.

and yes, the pvmp population on landy declined to a point Where creeps that had freeps flipped. Flippers were pretty much the only thing keeping anything resembling pvp on landy. so what?

and hearing the worst, most toxic trolls in game make a point about name calling and bullying is classic lotro forum pvp. well played.....(golfclap)

anyways, despite everything SSG has tried, lotro pvmp remains what it always was, a mildly entertaining mini game involving combat between lotr type characters.

nothing to take to seriously, as the competition here has never been balanced enough to have valid pvp seasons, rankings, meaningfull rewards or anything else a real pvp game has.

like most people if its not fun i just wont do it, its still fun hanging out with old friends now and then , it is an MMO after all, but LOTRO pvp is just......meh.

[sapienze]

Alright then I'll reply to the topic of the thread.

The reason pvp on Landy is so bad is because most creeps transferred off the server to arkenstone for better action or just quit all together because freeps were so over powered. The action and population further declined when creeps befriended the freeps and spent their time role playing, rank farming, and basically feeding the freeps free renown. This was largely due to the creeps which switched to freep side because they simply wanted to win. They didnt want good action they wanted to farm. I'm not sure cordovan would approve of me giving out a list of names of these 'flippers' but its no secret so i'm sure you know who they are. This created a massive imbalance on the population of freep/creep with freeps having the numbers to wipe creeps off the map till they logged even though they only needed half the numbers they brought out because they were so over powered at the time. The last of the decent creeps transferred off the sever and what you have left is the result of a bad community and the failures of ssg.

With this last update pvp on all servers has not gotten better. Quite simply freeps do not understand how to play their class, build a group, or implement strategy. They are so used to being over powered for so long they haven't needed to learn. I suppose that's not entirely their fault. I mostly play on arkenstone early in the morning while I have my coffee when I do get around to playing the game. I from time to time pop in on landy with the few creeps I have left there. On arkenstone freeps dont leave gv. Some will sneak out flip and op but they map straight back to gv and wait to be camped. The other few freeps that leave once spotted by a creep will simply just ride away. For example. At the moment theres a hunter on Arkenstone that when he sees me, even though i'm alone, he df's. EVERY TIME. This same hunter spent the last year one shooting creeps at grams and now well hes scared to leave the steps and rarely does. Now, when I log on to Landy in the mornings there is nothing. Maybe 1 or 2 creeps out trying to pve their rank and get maps but there are absolutely no freeps. Landy has pvp twice a week during a scheduled time. The action is not going to get better, nor is it going to change because of the community that is left there. I mean when freeps are harassing players that are on their own side, like that rank 15 hunter for not pvping, well that says a lot.

In closing I'd like to remind freeps that creeps are NOT over powered. This is the closest thing to balance we have had in years. Simply put, as freeps told creeps the whole two years they were getting one shot, "you need to learn to play". Only this time it just happens to be true.

Only part of this I would expand on is this.

"The action is not going to get better, nor is it going to change because of the community that is left there. I mean when freeps are harassing players that are on their own side, like that rank 15 hunter for not pvping, well that says a lot."


No it won't get better because the reason's it is at this point are perpetuated from within this small remaining cross section. I do know why this is the case, though it is hidden by a thin veneer projected as something other, which appeals to the general casuals. This doesn't mean change will not occur and this will have to be an outside factor which cannot be swayed.

Landy pvp

[Cathleen]

If Splay and Kate are against it, I'm for it. Whatever it is.

[Kate00]

Flippers were pretty much the only thing keeping anything resembling pvp on landy. so what?

Flippers were the savior of pvp on landy? You honestly cant believe that yourself. Let me ask you something about the flippers. When you flipped to full time freep once they were op, exactly who were you intending to heal on your mini? The freeps were literally ONE SHOTTING creeps.

No dear, the creeps that went freepside wanted to easymode. In your case they didnt even need more minis. They had plenty of heals in which they didnt need to begin with because freeps were literally ONE SHOTTING everything.

Like I said, this migration of creeps to freepside on landy caused a massive number imbalance that creeps could not over come with freeps already being op and that led to the last mass transfer of creeps to arkenstone.

What you ended up getting was no pvp. That is so what.