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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    . And there's a shot in the trailer of someone who I think is Celebrimbor seeing the fireball in the sky.
    that elf was confirmed to be Gil-Galad played by Benjamin Walker, not Celebrimbor https://twitter.com/LOTRonPrime/stat...53089404096521

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidmeetHal View Post
    It's too soon to tell, but from what it looks like, it might be good quality stuff like Game of Thrones. And no, I'm not saying there will be sex and gore lol.
    They cleared that up in one article, it will be a TV series for 12+ year olds, they want to make a show for everyone, so won't be to Game of Thrones violence and sex level, but level in quality yes i think it will be.

    And it might be too soon to tell, but I don't expect this at all to be very true to Tolkien, its an adaptation and its going to be different, I just hope its well written with grand visuals and good characters, so i look forward to the entertainment of seeing Middle-Earth on screen again, I like what we've seen so far.
    Pontin Level 140 Hobbit Burglar Leader of Second Breakfast Crickhollow Server.
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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Because there's that shot of him apparently emerging from that weird burning whatever-it-is and it seems like an odd coincidence otherwise. Fireballs from the sky isn't an established trope. The only thing we know of that should be scooting around up there is Earendil on his flying ship.


    The guy in the shot is bearded and appears to have arrived near-naked. Also, the whole reason the Istari were sent to Middle-earth in the Third Age was that the Elves no longer had the strength to defeat Sauron, whereas in the Second Age there were both the High Elves and the Numenoreans to fight him. So that wouldn't work as a plot point. Also, a bit of an unnecessarily dramatic way for one of the Istari to arrive given that Gandalf just turned up on a ship. (Something that would be much easier to do in the Second Age than the Third), So it's weird.

    Wild thought: unless it's Sauron, and this is how he fakes his arrival? They might have gone for a different take on what he looks like if the whole handsome Annatar thing is out of bounds. What made me wonder was that promo shot of someone holding an apple (symbolic of temptation). And there's a shot in the trailer of someone who I think is Celebrimbor seeing the fireball in the sky.
    Well the Ship arriving to Middle-Earth or leaving is due to Valinor being removed from the world and that being the way to travel in the aftermath of Numenor sinking.

    Which everything at least from the early parts of this TV Series is sounding like it supposed to be about Pre-Great Rings for the Dwarves & Men, then Celebrimbor in secret making the 3 Elven Rings and the the One Ring made after the 3 Elven Rings. At least for things we'll see in Early Season 1.



    The one looking up in the night time scene is Gil-Galad in the Trailer.

    It actually could be Sauron's way of showing up as tbh it goes give off "Mordor" vibes with all the fire and the ground being so hot that it's melted, granted it's not Mordor or unlikely to be unless they are really going crazy.

    And granted purely a theory but maybe that's why said person who seems to be the Guy in the Fire & the guy with the Apple are one in the same with Sauron basically is gathering his strength due to using that "Fireball" sapped him a bit to where he is weak for a period of time? So he's just "using" these people while he gets stronger, gathers information and begins to plan his move while testing his charms and wit on folks basically building his confidence. But his main objective was achieved of "arriving" and being seen and with how the Valar operated in the Lore and for whatever reason nobody could just go and ask even in the Pre-Numenor Sinking of, "Hey, you send this Annatar guy? No? Okie dokie, welp, I gotta go inform Gil-Galad to trick this dude and kill him. Okay, see you in about 2,000 Years when I die! Byeeeeee!"

    So even a fireball arrival doesn't make too much sense as the main part of the Valar are in Valinor and connected with Middle-Earth which is just sailing. So if they did do a "Sauron arrives as a fireball" would be a key reason I'd suspect he wouldn't be a Messenger of the Valar as I'd just point West and state, "Dude, we can freely sail to and from Valinor."

    Then whoever is "pulling" said person out of all the fire seems to look like a Hobbit or possibly a Dwarf as it's hard to see but they do seem to have some "dark hair" on the right side/front of their face that is facial hair or it's a long bit of hair hanging down that can be seen in the quick scene of the guy on the edge of the fire spot.

    Which would throw a huge wrench into the "Sauron didn't know of Hobbits" or at the very least he might of known of a group of folk that were tiny but had assumed they were wiped out due to his later Second Age Wars and everything that happened in the Third Age.

    But who knows, the Fireball + Dude in the Fire but actually has some form of cloth around his privates seems like the wrong way with introducing any Character in the Pre-Numenor Sinking who would be among the Maiar possible characters that could be in Middle-Earth in this TV Series.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pontin_Finnberry View Post
    They cleared that up in one article, it will be a TV series for 12+ year olds, they want to make a show for everyone, so won't be to Game of Thrones violence and sex level, but level in quality yes i think it will be.

    And it might be too soon to tell, but I don't expect this at all to be very true to Tolkien, its an adaptation and its going to be different, I just hope its well written with grand visuals and good characters, so i look forward to the entertainment of seeing Middle-Earth on screen again, I like what we've seen so far.
    That's what I meant, GoT level of quality, not sex and gore. From what I've seen, it doesn't look like Wheel of Time level of quality, but on the level of Games of Thrones for plot, characterization, and so on.
    "Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your children when you wanted to."

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harvain View Post
    The one looking up in the night time scene is Gil-Galad in the Trailer.
    Yeah, I realise that now.

    So even a fireball arrival doesn't make too much sense as the main part of the Valar are in Valinor and connected with Middle-Earth which is just sailing. So if they did do a "Sauron arrives as a fireball" would be a key reason I'd suspect he wouldn't be a Messenger of the Valar as I'd just point West and state, "Dude, we can freely sail to and from Valinor."
    Unless the idea is that Sauron is doing the "stranger in a strange land" thing and simply being mysterious. As it was, Gil-galad and Galadriel found it suspicious because nobody had ever heard of this 'Annatar' bloke before so just turning up looking supremely majestic and offering gifts was far from subtle. If there's some mystery or an outright bait-and-switch that might work better.

    Then whoever is "pulling" said person out of all the fire seems to look like a Hobbit or possibly a Dwarf as it's hard to see but they do seem to have some "dark hair" on the right side/front of their face that is facial hair or it's a long bit of hair hanging down that can be seen in the quick scene of the guy on the edge of the fire spot.
    It appears to be a hobbit (and might be that girl hobbit who appears in the trailer). And there's an image of a hobbit-sized hand holding onto a much bigger hand. It's the same guy (it's obviously a guy from the hands) wearing grey homespun that we see in the 'apple' image. So I'm thinking that's naked fireball guy after he's been lent something to wear.

    Which would throw a huge wrench into the "Sauron didn't know of Hobbits" or at the very least he might of known of a group of folk that were tiny but had assumed they were wiped out due to his later Second Age Wars and everything that happened in the Third Age.
    I think the point was more that the hobbits had always been beneath his notice, too small to even be a nuisance. But in any case the show-runners aren't fussed about mere details or we wouldn't have Galadriel rushing about looking like Joan of Arc.

    But who knows, the Fireball + Dude in the Fire but actually has some form of cloth around his privates seems like the wrong way with introducing any Character in the Pre-Numenor Sinking who would be among the Maiar possible characters that could be in Middle-Earth in this TV Series.
    It'd be a weird way to introduce anyone.

  6. #156
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    Between the trailer and the Vanity Fair article this really looks and feels a lot more like some generic fantasy using names from Tolkien's works rather than anything from Middle-earth itself. If you wouldn't have told me what the photos in the article were for, and took the title out of the trailer, I wouldn't have guessed Middle-earth at all.

    I suppose that's how these things go these days though. Take the name and franchise from the thing for the popularity, then discard what made it popular and do your own thing. It hasn't worked at all up to this point, so why not give it another shot?

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeneth View Post
    Between the trailer and the Vanity Fair article this really looks and feels a lot more like some generic fantasy using names from Tolkien's works rather than anything from Middle-earth itself. If you wouldn't have told me what the photos in the article were for, and took the title out of the trailer, I wouldn't have guessed Middle-earth at all.

    I suppose that's how these things go these days though. Take the name and franchise from the thing for the popularity, then discard what made it popular and do your own thing. It hasn't worked at all up to this point, so why not give it another shot?
    I wish I could argue with this. I was trying to be positive, but this is actually how I really feel.
    "Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your children when you wanted to."

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidmeetHal View Post
    Because it's done so much in media, it's almost a joke to see how many social groups can be placed in a show or movie. It's nothing more than raising your hand and saying "look Ma! We're progressive!" It's done so much it's a joke now.
    Maybe it feels like a joke to you because you're not a member of a marginalized community. Representation matters. Especially in the case of WoT where it's literally a part of the books, so it would be wrong for the cast and characters to NOT be diverse. They got a lot of things wrong with that show, but the diversity was appropriate and correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Intersectional representation, i.e. identity politics. ... You can tell when a production is doing that rather than trying to be realistic because you get this kind of "one of everything" casting
    Have you read the books? It WAS realistic. On the rare occasion where Jordan said someone had "blue eyes" but the actor in the show was black, that's a microscopic change compared to the changes they made to the plot, the costumes, the look of the locations... but for some reason "Wheel of Time" has become a byword for "unnecessary racial/LGBT representation" when in fact those were some of the more faithful elements of the adaptation.

    With the LotR show, I'm actually more on the fence about diversity. It seems pretty clear Tolkien in fact DID envision all of the characters having light skin, and it's pretty clear he didn't intend for anyone to be anything other than heterosexual. Fine. It will feel a bit more jarring to see those elements in the new LotR show, but I think I'm more on the side of representation being more important than the author's original intent. I'll at least put up with it rather than complalin.
    Last edited by Halphast; Feb 15 2022 at 01:28 PM.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeneth View Post
    Between the trailer and the Vanity Fair article this really looks and feels a lot more like some generic fantasy using names from Tolkien's works rather than anything from Middle-earth itself. If you wouldn't have told me what the photos in the article were for, and took the title out of the trailer, I wouldn't have guessed Middle-earth at all.

    I suppose that's how these things go these days though. Take the name and franchise from the thing for the popularity, then discard what made it popular and do your own thing. It hasn't worked at all up to this point, so why not give it another shot?
    In a nutshell, it's what you get when the people with the money are too risk-averse to invest in a new IP and would rather over-exploit an existing one instead, trying to make it crowd-pleasing with more action and spectacle. (And it just gets worse if they've got some agenda of their own they want to push that clashes with the setting, internal logic or ethos of the original). Or they destroy the continuity of the original in some huge way either intentionally (to 'reimagine' it) or accidentally through some deus ex machina or other plot device they throw in because they can't write worth a damn. And they mess about with existing characters. There are plenty of examples from other big IPs which have been mauled about like that.

    With fantasy it seems to be an iron-clad rule that the more they have to make up themselves, the more generic fantasy you get and they're having to make up an awful lot this time around. Also, callbacks (like including hobbits in this series even though they shouldn't have made their way westwards yet).

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halphast View Post
    Maybe it feels like a joke to you because you're not a member of a marginalized community. Representation matters. Especially in the case of WoT where it's literally a part of the books, so it would be wrong for the cast and characters to NOT be diverse. They got a lot of things wrong with that show, but the diversity was appropriate and correct.
    Rafe Judkins said it was a conscious decision on their part. So no. It was largely indeterminate and they chose to show that as highly diverse, with the result that as people have noticed there's an improbable-looking mixture of ethnicities everywhere in a way that doesn't look realistic. That wouldn't have stayed like that over time: if the population had started out highly diverse at the time of the Breaking it'd have largely evened out over thousands of years (so most people would just be some shade of brown and should be less distinctive in appearance). Can't have it both ways.

    As far as LOTR goes it makes no sense to try to force an 'ancient' setting to reflect the full range of modern diversity. If people don't like the way literature is written then they should damn well adapt something that better suits what they want or even better, write their own.

  11. #161
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    I quite liked the trailer, the Galadriel hobbits and the atmosphere in general. I also liked the man who comes from the sky talking to the hobbits, I guess a maiar or valar, the dwarfs seem like a success to me finally seeing that there are female dwarfs, about what of the races it does not bother me it is not very suitable in that area but it will not bother me at all

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halphast View Post
    Maybe it feels like a joke to you because you're not a member of a marginalized community. Representation matters. Especially in the case of WoT where it's literally a part of the books, so it would be wrong for the cast and characters to NOT be diverse. They got a lot of things wrong with that show, but the diversity was appropriate and correct.


    Have you read the books? It WAS realistic. On the rare occasion where Jordan said someone had "blue eyes" but the actor in the show was black, that's a microscopic change compared to the changes they made to the plot, the costumes, the look of the locations... but for some reason "Wheel of Time" has become a byword for "unnecessary racial/LGBT representation" when in fact those were some of the more faithful elements of the adaptation.

    With the LotR show, I'm actually more on the fence about diversity. It seems pretty clear Tolkien in fact DID envision all of the characters having light skin, and it's pretty clear he didn't intend for anyone to be anything other than heterosexual. Fine. It will feel a bit more jarring to see those elements in the new LotR show, but I think I'm more on the side of representation being more important than the author's original intent. I'll at least put up with it rather than complalin.

    I’m just saying that it is a joke because it’s done just to have a quota. And it’s blatantly obvious too the way they do it. It’s nothing more than pandering and quite frankly insulting to minorities to get the part only because they are part of a particular social group. It’s not respecting them at all.
    "Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your children when you wanted to."

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodin12 View Post
    I quite liked the trailer, the Galadriel hobbits and the atmosphere in general. I also liked the man who comes from the sky talking to the hobbits, I guess a maiar or valar, the dwarfs seem like a success to me finally seeing that there are female dwarfs, about what of the races it does not bother me it is not very suitable in that area but it will not bother me at all
    What is a Galadriel hobbit?
    "Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your children when you wanted to."

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halphast View Post
    Maybe it feels like a joke to you because you're not a member of a marginalized community. Representation matters. Especially in the case of WoT where it's literally a part of the books, so it would be wrong for the cast and characters to NOT be diverse. They got a lot of things wrong with that show, but the diversity was appropriate and correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidmeetHal View Post
    I’m just saying that it is a joke because it’s done just to have a quota. And it’s blatantly obvious too the way they do it. It’s nothing more than pandering and quite frankly insulting to minorities to get the part only because they are part of a particular social group. It’s not respecting them at all.
    Diversity is all well and good but it should be done in a way where it makes sense and not just for check box quotas.

    The best way to explain it is:

    Whoever is playing X Role should be doing said Role because they are THE BEST Person to fill that Role and bring it the most energy it can. Not just filling in a Role just to have it filled.



    Best example and from the Lord of the Rings? It's during the LOTR: Return of the King with the Ride of the Rohirrim and in the final seconds as the Army of Rohan is about to ride head long into the Orcs and is at 6:07 for the Video and right after Eomer's moment:

    https://youtu.be/EmTz7EAYLrs?t=360

    Said Role is a Stunt Double, he's only in the front line due to Peter Jackson wanting everyone who is part of that having read the Books, he gets his 2-ish seconds on camera and makes EVERY part of that 2-ish seconds count.

    You can feel the PASSION they put into that moment where even if they WEREN'T being filmed they would have done the same thing. Said Person, their family, friends, etc have since that movie been able to point out those 2-ish seconds where he gave it his all and has become a small unnamed hero since where pretty much any video showing off the Ride of the Rohirrim has someone commenting about that guy.

    THAT is filling a Role, making it count and ensuring that a unnamed or named Character has true impact.

    Regardless of anything to do with Minorities, Sex, and so on.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidmeetHal View Post
    What is a Galadriel hobbit?
    I believe Rodin uses an auto-translation program, as English is not his first language. Sometimes things get lost in translation I guess.
    “If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.”
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  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidmeetHal View Post
    I’m just saying that it is a joke because it’s done just to have a quota. And it’s blatantly obvious too the way they do it. It’s nothing more than pandering and quite frankly insulting to minorities to get the part only because they are part of a particular social group. It’s not respecting them at all.
    Those actors are fantastic. Accusing them of "only getting the part because they're a minority" is just plain disgusting.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harvain View Post
    Whoever is playing X Role should be doing said Role because they are THE BEST Person to fill that Role and bring it the most energy it can. Not just filling in a Role just to have it filled.
    The actors in question play the snot out of their roles. The worst actors in the series were white...

    When the show came out it had 5-star reviews, 1-star reviews and nothing else for the longest time. The critical reviews and the 5-star user reviews praised the acting in general. The 1-star reviews all said the same thing: "It's way too woke, the acting is bad and they only gave those actors the part because they're people of color."

    I wonder why the only ones who think the acting was bad are the viewers who hate seeing people of color getting leading roles....

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halphast View Post
    The worst actors in the series were white...

    .
    Got it. White hater.
    "Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your children when you wanted to."

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halphast View Post
    Maybe it feels like a joke to you because you're not a member of a marginalized community. Representation matters. Especially in the case of WoT where it's literally a part of the books, so it would be wrong for the cast and characters to NOT be diverse. They got a lot of things wrong with that show, but the diversity was appropriate and correct.

    Have you read the books? It WAS realistic. On the rare occasion where Jordan said someone had "blue eyes" but the actor in the show was black, that's a microscopic change compared to the changes they made to the plot, the costumes, the look of the locations... but for some reason "Wheel of Time" has become a byword for "unnecessary racial/LGBT representation" when in fact those were some of the more faithful elements of the adaptation.
    No it wasn't. The people there look like a MODERN society and they have as much in common as a crowd in a supermarket. The book has so many different cultures, so many opportunities to explore them all, and all we see is an average American-looking mix everywhere. The cultural differences are non-existent (apart of one Eastern-looking city, which at the moment looks wildly unrealistic because all other cities don't have a face of their own). They could change the looks of Two Rivers folk, but it's an isolated corner of the world, ALL people should look more or less alike after 3000 years of not bothering with the outside world. That way, big cities (Tar Valon etc) with visitors from everywhere would get a big "wow!" out of our villagers. With the way it was done - pfff, Two Rivers folk don't even bother to be interested.

    Watch Expanse, there it looks realistic.

    PS.
    I don't think much of the acting, too, and the actors have very little charisma. I don't know what's wrong with the cast, they should smile more, express emotions? Perrin is just a Jon Snow 2.0, one expression for everything. Siuan is a tired and bored woman, not a head of a very powerful organisation. And so on.
    I liked Lan, though - even if he's nothing like in the book.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halphast View Post
    Those actors are fantastic. Accusing them of "only getting the part because they're a minority" is just plain disgusting.
    If you're running a quota when it comes to casting, as Amazon apparently do, then that literally values box-ticking above talent. It's not the same as simply having a diverse cast. And as for WoT in particular, the overall aim was (according to the script - Rafe Judkins posted a quote from it in a tweet) to achieve the effect of how they imagined America would look in a few hundred years, so some notional ideal for the real world's future (or rather, America's) rather than whatever might look realistic for the setting itself. So as far as WoT went that was arbitrary, whereas for some shows such as The Expanse that would be what was called for.

    They could have written LOTR:RoP in such a way as to have a more diverse cast naturally as there's no lack of diversity among Men in general - at that point in Middle-earth's history, the Easterlings and Haradrim weren't yet firmly aligned with Sauron and so a nuanced approach could have been taken. But no, we have to have fake diversity applied to Elves, Dwarves and hobbits instead to make up the numbers. (And the hobbits are all fake to start with because they shouldn't even have turned up in the west yet!).

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    (comes in from a totally different angle)

    I saw (or rather heard) another news about a (cartoon?) series done by Warner, called "War of the Rohirrim", with the story being about Helm Hammerhand, Orthanc, the endless winter, and the construction of the Horburg. It is supposed to come out in 2024...

    The one YouTube video I that I watched is very chatty, does anyone have some concise info on that?


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  22. #172
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    Googled it - came up with that:
    https://www.ign.com/articles/lord-of...lease-date-art
    It says very little but has a concept art picture, I guess it's too early for more news.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadySelene View Post
    Googled it - came up with that:
    https://www.ign.com/articles/lord-of...lease-date-art
    It says very little but has a concept art picture, I guess it's too early for more news.
    Manages to look derivative and generic at the same time... if you'd never seen the LOTR movies you'd probably think that was something to do with Conan. It's got that sort of vibe.

    I did wonder quite what they thought that war involved. It was just Dunlendings (so sort-of-Celts) vs. the Rohirrim (so horsey sort-of-Saxons) and if you did that faithfully it'd look more like something out of history than fantasy. So of course you get this Needs More Fantasy thing going on.

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    sorry for the translation I meant that I like the appearance of the hobbits and that this Galadriel is a character that I always liked a lot since the elves are my second favorite race

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    Quote Originally Posted by rodin12 View Post
    sorry for the translation I meant that I like the appearance of the hobbits and that this Galadriel is a character that I always liked a lot since the elves are my second favorite race
    Ahhh ok, not a problem! Thank you for taking the time to answer! I love Galadriel also! And I like hobbits too because I have stomach like a hobbit!
    "Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your children when you wanted to."

 

 
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