We really need a damage boost from Beorning's skills.

[BlitzKr1eg]

So Beos should be the only class that can fulfill 3 roles in endgame? Why?

[Pavlin]

Now beornings have problems with damage. Mostly, in raids Beornings take in as the main AOE heal. The damage level of beornings is extremely low, while even Captains give out much more damage.

Now? You sure? Thought is from day one

when bears are such incredible tanks and healers?

As one whos incredible good with all 3 boe specialisation i can tell you that bear was NEVER been an incredible tank. Now is OKish tank, stil far behind guardian and even more behind captain.The only reason is kinda better than wrd is the fakt we got heavy armor wich make us nearly imune to phisical dmg. (compared to wrd).
So thats all. Bear is great heal and ok tank and more than capable dps for low tier instances and landscape.
Think is ok that way, we dont need another dps class (speaking about t3+)

[AaronIU]

Aaron, mate.

You're telling a bunch of guys who play bear what a skill is supposed to do. They're telling you what the skill actually does.

Before the fate fixes, beorning was parsing for more, after it was parsing for less.

Perhaps taking a moment to listen to what the people in this thread are trying to explain would be a good idea. You're right that fate doesn't have an impact on "melee" damage. However you neglect that all healing is technically tactical "damage" and beornings damage is actually routed through the tactical system because they have the capacity to heal in a certain spec. (their skills do not follow the normal rules of melee & tactical skills).

ACTUALLY... no one explained that Beornings melee skills aren't melee at all and in fact are tactical healing skils.. literally no one.. no one said this.. but thanks.

I was trying to offer a plausible reason based on the information given to me and my own experience with "tactical" melee skills... since warden also has skills that have atypical classifications. I never said the skill wasn't broken, but I appreciate the attack anyway. Join the crowd trying to get the Dev's to fix broken skills and traits..

[Pavlin]

ACTUALLY... no one explained that Beornings melee skills aren't melee at all and in fact are tactical healing skils.. literally no one.. no one said this.. but thanks.

I was trying to offer a plausible reason based on the information given to me and my own experience with "tactical" melee skills... since warden also has skills that have atypical classifications. I never said the skill wasn't broken, but I appreciate the attack anyway. Join the crowd trying to get the Dev's to fix broken skills and traits..

Actualy there is no tactical mele skills. Just in yellow youd dmg scale from phisical mastery and your tactical mastery increase your healing. Simple.

And yea, dont listen to mrplaneswalker , hes lost.

[Knight19]

As one whos incredible good with all 3 boe specialisation i can tell you that bear was NEVER been an incredible tank. Now is OKish tank, stil far behind guardian and even more behind captain.The only reason is kinda better than wrd is the fakt we got heavy armor wich make us nearly imune to phisical dmg. (compared to wrd).
So thats all. Bear is great heal and ok tank and more than capable dps for low tier instances and landscape.
Think is ok that way, we dont need another dps class (speaking about t3+)

They are great once you adapt to the class and learn how to properly position as a bear. I have never had an issue with aggro or survivability as a bear tank. Now as far as Capt tank goes we just cant compare any class to them as they easily have an edge over them all

[AaronIU]

Actualy there is no tactical mele skills. Just in yellow youd dmg scale from phisical mastery and your tactical mastery increase your healing. Simple.

And yea, dont listen to mrplaneswalker , hes lost.

I appreciate that explanation, and it makes a lot more sense how it would work. I know Fate had a profound effect on a lot of skills, but according to some of the calculations I did with friends it was no where near contributing +100% crit mag (Doubling crit damage). The guy saying it went from 240k to 120k, just doesn’t seem to add up to only Fate, and that’s why I brought up the damage scaling mistake with Spear of Virtue. I’m assuming when they went back to adjust some of the base damage of these skills (like they said in the patch notes) that some of them were just had their Formula for damage scaling ruined and they didn’t catch it. I know Beo is on the low end of dps, but I’ve seen a few put up “decent” numbers even since the Fate nerf.. (not great but better than described here). I’m not here to tell anyone to sit down and shut up, just offer some unlikely “hey maybe this happened to you guys too”.

[Softello]

Easy fixes...Let Bash stack again, invert Execute to before the class change and Nerf Composed to 2% or get rid of it. All done..

[Knight19]

Easy fixes...Let Bash stack again, invert Execute to before the class change and Nerf Composed to 2% or get rid of it. All done..

Shhh we dont speak of heals in these parts.

[Anoregon]

Easy fixes...Let Bash stack again, invert Execute to before the class change and Nerf Composed to 2% or get rid of it. All done..

How did Execute used to work?

[Antophant]

How did Execute used to work?

It was never changed which is why it's worthless atm,

how it works atm is that Execute gains bonus dmg scaling off Wrath from +0% at 0 Wrath up to +30% at 100 Wrath.

How it's supposed to work (from Vastins notes) is +0% at 0 Wrath up to +150% at 100 Wrath which tho still meh is at least worth using.

[Softello]

It was never changed which is why it's worthless atm,

how it works atm is that Execute gains bonus dmg scaling off Wrath from +0% at 0 Wrath up to +30% at 100 Wrath.

How it's supposed to work (from Vastins notes) is +0% at 0 Wrath up to +150% at 100 Wrath which tho still meh is at least worth using.

With update.....
Execute now hits harder, doing increased damage for full Wrath (broken). Its cooldown has been increased from three to 30 seconds(Nerfed). However, this skill can no longer Crit.(Nerfed)
Execute is no longer free when Moment of Opportunity happens.(Nerfed) You can simply use it regardless of the target's health.

[Pavlin]

It was never changed which is why it's worthless atm,

how it works atm is that Execute gains bonus dmg scaling off Wrath from +0% at 0 Wrath up to +30% at 100 Wrath.

How it's supposed to work (from Vastins notes) is +0% at 0 Wrath up to +150% at 100 Wrath which tho still meh is at least worth using.

Sorry?
Old execute required certain amount of HP % to be used / see Merciful Shot hunter skill/ and has a procent chanse to proc FREE /of wrath/ use regardles target HP.
But some smarthead(####?) decided to gut it and turn it to full wrtah consuming, useless skill. (ty Vastin?)
I better keep my wrath (and my SP ) and hit 2 high percent crit Bash attacks instead of burning all my wrtah for ""execute"" Also you bleed dmg tick crit% depend of your curent wrath (dont mistake with bleed dmg) so burning all your wrat for execute is big no no.
Even with curent fast wrath building isnt worth it. You better spend this SP elsewhere / on survival or heal support build.

[Antophant]

Sorry?
Old execute required certain amount of HP % to be used / see Merciful Shot hunter skill/ and has a procent chanse to proc FREE /of wrath/ use regardles target HP.
But some smarthead(####?) decided to gut it and turn it to full wrtah consuming, useless skill. (ty Vastin?)
I better keep my wrath (and my SP ) and hit 2 high percent crit Bash attacks instead of burning all my wrtah for ""execute"" Also you bleed dmg tick crit% depend of your curent wrath (dont mistake with bleed dmg) so burning all your wrat for execute is big no no.
Even with curent fast wrath building isnt worth it. You better spend this SP elsewhere / on survival or heal support build.

I was mostly talking about the skill Execute not the trait "Moment of Opportunity" but I did genuinely forget about the HP % req (sorry about that, I never touched the skill without the proc) so I guess 1 thing did changed about Execute.

Vastins red line changes was meant to turn Execute into a all in nuke that would likely hit for 300-400k hits solo with good DPS gear but he forgot to change the Wrath bonus dmg% to 150% so now when you use the skill you see something like..

Mothmoth scored a hit with Execute on the Anduin Badger for 104,868 (144,718 from 92 Wrath) Beleriand damage to Morale., the skill should of hit for at least 210k but only 30-35k bonus damage affected Execute instead of that juicy 144k.
I pointed this issue out more than once during and after the beta but only received cricket noises. The only way I get a response from Vastin about bugs/issues is insulting him but I'm tired of doing that.


The one skill that I would change first before any major buffs is Expose, atm it lets Beornings ignore 40% mits in manform and 15% in bearform which means manform skills are already maxing out in damage outside of raid mobs/bosses with 41%+ mits with only Bearform skills benefiting from an extra 25% mit debuffs but due to constant form changing to refresh Expose(without needing to reuse the slow skill), Ferocious Roar and keeping Slash/Biting Edge bleeds up you only end up spending half your time in bearform.

The skill makes it hard to get proper changes when beta testers only parsed on the Dummies and responded on forums with "look at this 64k DPS parse I just did" while Red/Yellow Champs were struggling to hit 55-58k DPS parses at the time but if both entered a raid with proper debuffs the Champ would fly past Beorning in damage no problem.

[Pavlin]

So Beos should be the only class that can fulfill 3 roles in endgame? Why?

Nope is not.Every class can play endgame at all spec. Beor is exelent healer and capable tank, but his dps line (red) lack.
Stil there is a video of 100% bear raids. Ofc is slower but doable.
Tbh outside blue captain, every class/spec is endgame viable.
Bad thing is that lotro have 5% of ""elite"" players (in quotes because they are not even close to elite if we speak/compare about other games- stil they are lotro elite) and thos players deman best clas combinations for their raid. No blame. The wors is, that every parrot in LFF start copy them. Requiring best class/combo/gear while hes anonimous, poor geared, non skiled PoS. And we have lots of parrots in lotro
Sugestion for beor if you plan to play with pugs- go healer. Tank role will help you find spot in dily 3/6m. Red for solo/landscape.
If you have kind of friends, play what you like. But keep in mind, that even they will not love you so much in red line :P

[Hurshid]

UP thread

[Valdimon]

My beorning's on ANOR (Grizzle-1) level 85 have really good dps in red line and with the one single heal skill, which mine heals around 3600 per second make survivable pretty good. My bear is 48k red line, 44k yellow and over 60 k blue. Yellow line bears have really good heals, single and AOE healing. A lot of raids want a yellow line bear as secondary healing. Blue line bear make pretty good tanks with pretty good dps. Overall I highly rank a beorning as a very good all round character. Bears are really fun to play

[mrplaneswalker]

level 85

Level 85 is not the balance target here

[Hurshid]

Up Thread

[Hurshid]

Beorning Lives Matter!!!

[Casmond]

I tend to think the way to improve dps is more along the lines of attack duration. Bears are still clunky in releasing skills. You, already, have a very good chance of critical hits since you have the opportunity to have in excess of 45% critical rating (with the trigger essences over 55% at times) with full wrath. The problem is getting off your skills fast enough to make it worth it.

I'm not a big fan of the new animation on Thrash tier 3. There's a hitch that makes the release of that skill slower. Setting up vicious claws with armor crush is, also, sloooooowwwwww. Starting in man form and dropping your debuffs, then hitting ferocious roar, then switching to bear form for armor crush and vicious claws all do some decent damage hits. But, it just takes wayyyyyy too long to release all those skills. As a result, the dps on a red bear doesn't compare to other dps melee classes. Not even close.

[mrfigglesworth]

I tend to think the way to improve dps is more along the lines of attack duration. Bears are still clunky in releasing skills. You, already, have a very good chance of critical hits since you have the opportunity to have in excess of 45% critical rating (with the trigger essences over 55% at times) with full wrath. The problem is getting off your skills fast enough to make it worth it.

I'm not a big fan of the new animation on Thrash tier 3. There's a hitch that makes the release of that skill slower. Setting up vicious claws with armor crush is, also, sloooooowwwwww. Starting in man form and dropping your debuffs, then hitting ferocious roar, then switching to bear form for armor crush and vicious claws all do some decent damage hits. But, it just takes wayyyyyy too long to release all those skills. As a result, the dps on a red bear doesn't compare to other dps melee classes. Not even close.

all beo skills are fast. attack duration dont speed up fast attacks.

[Pavlin]

Ummm, like Captain is a good ranged dps? Or Warden a good healer? Or Hunter a good support class?

actualy yellow hunter is a great support class...

[Casmond]

all beo skills are fast. attack duration dont speed up fast attacks.

I disagree...unless you are being sarcastic (which is a possibility)...As an example I would point out how they removed all attack duration on vicious claws as an interrupt skill about a year ago. Now it is immediate. When you remove all attack duration, every skill would be like that.

Man skills on beorning are acceptable...Bear skills are so wrapped up in presentation that it slows down their application. And those aren't inductions...it is held back by attack duration. I'm not saying all skills should have zero attack duration...but all bear skills need to have a reduction.

Out of curiosity, I equipped the Finesse trigger essence with the 10 second attack duration buff. I didn't even have to eyeball my buffs. I could tell when it activated just by the fight. It made a noticeable difference.

[mrfigglesworth]

I disagree...unless you are being sarcastic (which is a possibility)...As an example I would point out how they removed all attack duration on vicious claws as an interrupt skill about a year ago. Now it is immediate. When you remove all attack duration, every skill would be like that.

Man skills on beorning are acceptable...Bear skills are so wrapped up in presentation that it slows down their application. And those aren't inductions...it is held back by attack duration. I'm not saying all skills should have zero attack duration...but all bear skills need to have a reduction.

Out of curiosity, I equipped the Finesse trigger essence with the 10 second attack duration buff. I didn't even have to eyeball my buffs. I could tell when it activated just by the fight. It made a noticeable difference.

no sarcasm, fast skills traditionally never benefited from attack duration.

[TobiasEstForte]

champ good tank

Yes, that's why we see champs tanking in raids.