Forum & Website Overhaul

[krypto182]

I am going to be frank the website and forums are antiquated!! We need a completely new website and forums. There are many MMORPG that have been around far longer then LOTRO that have far superior websites. The newer versions of vBulletin will run circles around this version. Also hosting the website and forums in the cloud would be the way to go and should offer a huge performance boost. I know Cordovan has said it would love a website and forum overhaul when can we reasonably expect that to happen.

Thanks

[Cordovan]

Yup, no one here disagrees with you. It's a pretty big project, though, and resources have just not been aligned in a way to make this happen. So, no ETA.

[Thurallor]

Sorry, but it won't ever happen. SSG just doesn't have the money. There will always be some higher priority to allocate scarce resources to.

Previous thread: https://www.lotro.com/en/forums/show...postid=7966021

(Just my opinion, of course.)

[Cordovan]

Sorry, but it won't ever happen. SSG just doesn't have the money. There will always be some higher priority to allocate scarce resources to.

Previous thread: https://www.lotro.com/en/forums/show...postid=7966021

(Just my opinion, of course.)

Respectfully, I disagree. While a full web site overhaul may never happen, we do have a formal intention to move to vBulletin Cloud and archive the current forums to become read-only. Obviously there are some questions that need to be answered and prepared for, one of the biggest being community acceptance of having to start fresh, and not have their names saved. We would also permanently unhook your game log in credentials with your LOTRO forums credentials.

[Boraxxe]

Respectfully, I disagree. While a full web site overhaul may never happen, we do have a formal intention to move to vBulletin Cloud and archive the current forums to become read-only. Obviously there are some questions that need to be answered and prepared for, one of the biggest being community acceptance of having to start fresh, and not have their names saved. We would also permanently unhook your game log in credentials with your LOTRO forums credentials.

I don't like that Idea at all...it's like throwing history in the trash.
Within a few months all 13 years of Forum banter will be lost in space. (Well, maybe some has been lost already since the last forum revamp).
I appreciate being able to go back and review/research all that data.
It will quickly become lost like cuneiform, which at least took several hundred years to get lost.

Maybe that's just the way-of-the-world now.
Here today, gone tomorrow.

There must be some way of making it "read-only" and still keep it a click away from access.
If you can do that (and you actually do it) then I might not start a violent, bloody revolution. But it's a close thing...my patience grows thinner with the years.

For thirteen years I have had ONE solid thing I can count on. I can go to the LOTRO Forums site and find something I was thinking about, or reminiscing about.
OK, there might be more than ONE solid thing...but that is an important one.

I can make a new name.
Separating log-in credentials and Forum credentials is a good thing.

What exactly does "archive the current forums to become read-only." mean?

I am concerned about that.

Will we be able to quote stuff from the "archived" forum?
Will we be able to post a link to threads in these archives?

[krypto182]

I don't like that Idea at all...it's like throwing history in the trash.
Within a few months all 13 years of Forum banter will be lost in space. (Well, maybe some has been lost already since the last forum revamp).
I appreciate being able to go back and review/research all that data.
It will quickly become lost like cuneiform, which at least took several hundred years to get lost.

Maybe that's just the way-of-the-world now.
Here today, gone tomorrow.

There must be some way of making it "read-only" and still keep it a click away from access.
If you can do that (and you actually do it) then I might not start a violent, bloody revolution. But it's a close thing...my patience grows thinner with the years.

For thirteen years I have had ONE solid thing I can count on. I can go to the LOTRO Forums site and find something I was thinking about, or reminiscing about.
OK, there might be more than ONE solid thing...but that is an important one.

I can make a new name.
Separating log-in credentials and Forum credentials is a good thing.

What exactly does "archive the current forums to become read-only." mean?

I am concerned about that.

Will we be able to quote stuff from the "archived" forum?
Will we be able to post a link to threads in these archives?

"archive the current forums to become read-only." That means that they will probably keep the old forums just like they are now but in a read only state they will disable account creation and disable the abilities for users to post new threads or reply to old ones. The old forums would not disappear they would be there for historical reference only. Also a lot of the great threads could be reposted in the new forums with a note about it being from old site. If they are going to make a new forum the best way to do it is to start from scratch and not transfer over the user databases and all the posts. You would not have all those unused accounts sitting in the database and hogging up great usernames. There are many user accounts that have not posted since 2007 or ever even posted at all. The performance of a cloud based new forum would be a night and day difference and would be more secure as well as your game credentials would not be linked to the forums. Well yes there will need to be discussions I am all for a brand new forum. Cordovan and team would love it as well as you can see from his post. From and administration standpoint and a user standpoint the newer versions of vBulletin are just going to be better and work better with modern browsers and be an all around better experience.

[Devolved]

I don't like that Idea at all...it's like throwing history in the trash.
Within a few months all 13 years of Forum banter will be lost in space.....

Having experienced a couple 'total loss' cases on Kobold-side, both forum-wide and thread specific, I can say it does royally suck to lose that history. Even if 'archived', it still sinks deeper into the virtual dust becoming harder and harder to find.

Sadly, it seems the only things that never seem to go away on the interwebs is the stuff you wish actually would disappear.

-----

Edit: Forum handles. When you come to know people by a particular name for years, that name uniquely identifies the real person behind the screen. I *firmly* believe everything possible should be done to preserve each person's current identifier in any move forward.

[YamydeAragon]

Respectfully, I disagree. While a full web site overhaul may never happen, we do have a formal intention to move to vBulletin Cloud and archive the current forums to become read-only. Obviously there are some questions that need to be answered and prepared for, one of the biggest being community acceptance of having to start fresh, and not have their names saved. We would also permanently unhook your game log in credentials with your LOTRO forums credentials.

Old player here that regularly plays LOTRO & use the forums. I think that these conditions are fair & agree with the change if they improves the forums readability organization & appearance.

[Marancil]

archive the current forums to become read-only.

I missed that part. So no migration and this place dies.

I have, in different roles, taken part in related decisions on a few other large forums and I have always been opposed to such a plan. Always. To me, you kill the history of the main topic, being that a game, a software or a community for knitting ladies. Sure, a lot gets irrelevant over time and a lot may need to be cleaned out, some sections of the forums may need a restart, if not for anything else, to cope with the game development, but to archive 70% or more and make it read only, or eventually dump it.... that is a very tough call and very disruptive to people who have been active, in our case, since 2007 and still may browse through old topics and threads reminiscing. Don't do that.

[SavinDwarf]

I am going to be frank the website and forums are antiquated!! We need a completely new website and forums. There are many MMORPG that have been around far longer then LOTRO that have far superior websites. The newer versions of vBulletin will run circles around this version. Also hosting the website and forums in the cloud would be the way to go and should offer a huge performance boost. I know Cordovan has said it would love a website and forum overhaul when can we reasonably expect that to happen.

Thanks

I think a new Forum in the Cloud has some huge advantages, and a number of issues:

Advantages -
1) SSG can speak to the community even if the data center is down!!
2) Performance should be much improved.
3) Backup and recovery is no longer an issue/worry for SSG
4) New features and modern look
5) Users would be able to link to their emails for alerts (if they wanted)

Disadvantages
1) It is very unlikely that information can be migrated from the current forums. So they could be left up READ ONLY and then its a new beginning.
2) Everyone will need to get their ID again because migrating the login IDs is just not reasonable - not to mention 95% of the ids are probably dead.
3) People need to get use to the new forums (and yes some will complain)

[Cordovan]

I think a new Forum in the Cloud has some huge advantages, and a number of issues:

Advantages -
1) SSG can speak to the community even if the data center is down!!
2) Performance should be much improved.
3) Backup and recovery is no longer an issue/worry for SSG
4) New features and modern look
5) Users would be able to link to their emails for alerts (if they wanted)

Disadvantages
1) It is very unlikely that information can be migrated from the current forums. So they could be left up READ ONLY and then its a new beginning.
2) Everyone will need to get their ID again because migrating the login IDs is just not reasonable - not to mention 95% of the ids are probably dead.
3) People need to get use to the new forums (and yes some will complain)

I agree with you. Some of the concerns over the disadvantages combined with a ton of required work taking away available time to do it by the people who need to do it is why it hasn't yet been done. We do, however, currently intend to do this at some point in the future when everything aligns.

[Thurallor]

Some of the concerns over the disadvantages combined with a ton of required work taking away available time to do it by the people who need to do it is why it hasn't yet been done.

And that won't change, IMO. There will always be a "game-breaking issue du jour" that is (and should be) a higher priority for scarce human resources than fixing the forums which, besides the flakiness, are entirely adequate. The forums are, after all, ancillary to the product, and non-revenue-generating.

Who among us would think it's justified to spend two man-weeks migrating the forums, while we still suffer with major bugs that interfere with actual gameplay? I guess this work is well-suited for outsourcing or contracting (being unrelated to the company's core expertise). But if you're going to put an engineer on it, I'd rather you have him dig into the existing source code and just fix the problem. It's probably something very localized that can be quickly fixed, once identified.

[Boraxxe]

...But if you're going to put an engineer on it, I'd rather you have him dig into the existing source code and just fix the problem...

I think it's probably a completely different skill-set.

[Thurallor]

I think it's probably a completely different skill-set.

I'd be very surprised if SSG didn't have at least one software engineer who thought he was up to the task. But even if they decide to outsource it or contract it out, the choice remains as to whether to pay someone to fix it or to migrate it.

[DavidmeetHal]

For me, I really don't have an issue with my name, if it means better forums, than I'll make the sacrifice, and it's not that big of a sacrifice.

[Kirchenmaus]

Have you ever thought about migrating the website and forum to Wordpress? Not too long ago I completely migrated an older website of mine to Wordpress and replaced the forum, which ran via Simple Machines, with the plugin wpForo. The migration took more than an hour, because the forum is very extensive, but everything went smoothly. And Wordpress basically offers many, very useful plugins. I'm not a programmer, but I think that you can learn the settings etc. very well and understand them.

[BINKLEY1]

Advantages -
1) SSG can speak to the community even if the data center is down!!
2) Performance should be much improved.
3) Backup and recovery is no longer an issue/worry for SSG
4) New features and modern look
5) Users would be able to link to their emails for alerts (if they wanted)

This is a Jim-dandy idea!

I for one welcome our new Internet forums! <-- Obligatory meme reference

Wiping tear from eye ... in all earnestness, this is really a good idea. You won me over SavinDwarf when you said "cloud" in your full post.

I work for a prominent global IT consultancy particularly adept at projects like these; I know first hand they can work well. This is the kind of work that puts a spring into my step each day. Really looking forward to SSG deciding to take the plunge. LotRO is the bee's knees.

(Side note -- PHP ... well, that's what it is. )


Cheers,
Gloimli @ ex-Windfola