Motivating Speech Change

[Dunford]

Per update 30 patch notes, Motivating Speech is being changed from a toggle skill to a five minute duration skill. The reason given is for raid content.
Does this also affect Improved Motivating Speech?

Nothing is more enjoyable than having to watch a timer and re-apply a skill every five minutes...
This was how the skill was originally introduced and it was annoying.

Can anyone point out a useful reason for this change?

Please reconsider this. All it does is make using the skill a pain.

[WeirdJedi]

Considering that Improved Motivating Speech replaces Motivating Speech at level 46, it is most definitely going to apply to both. I remember back when they were revamping the class with the release of Vales of Anduin where it was changed from always being active to being a toggle you had to turn on. My theory on that is so the buff could be, in a sense, dispelled. Of course my other lackluster theory is so people can see what their stats would be un-buffed.

It is quite surprising the number of abilities the captain will be able to use for the whole raid. But one thing you might not have considered is how this will have an effect in PvMP. Can you imagine one captain casting all their abilities for a full 24-man raid group? This was most definitely a change I did not see on the test realm. It is almost like they had to come up with some sort of quick compromise to the buff and said, "well let's make it so they have to keep casting it." It is annoying and very unexpected. The good news is perhaps now people can "carry" their buff with them when they get out of range of the captain.

I wasn't around when the captain was first introduced, so learning about how it is returning to its roots is kind of interesting. I hear the same thing about how Shield of the Dúnedain is being reversed from its change with Helm's Deep to the point where you can't use it on yourself.

[Dunford]

Considering that Improved Motivating Speech replaces Motivating Speech at level 46, it is most definitely going to apply to both. I remember back when they were revamping the class with the release of Vales of Anduin where it was changed from always being active to being a toggle you had to turn on. My theory on that is so the buff could be, in a sense, dispelled. Of course my other lackluster theory is so people can see what their stats would be un-buffed.

It is quite surprising the number of abilities the captain will be able to use for the whole raid. But one thing you might not have considered is how this will have an effect in PvMP. Can you imagine one captain casting all their abilities for a full 24-man raid group? This was most definitely a change I did not see on the test realm. It is almost like they had to come up with some sort of quick compromise to the buff and said, "well let's make it so they have to keep casting it." It is annoying and very unexpected. The good news is perhaps now people can "carry" their buff with them when they get out of range of the captain.

I wasn't around when the captain was first introduced, so learning about how it is returning to its roots is kind of interesting. I hear the same thing about how Shield of the Dúnedain is being reversed from its change with Helm's Deep to the point where you can't use it on yourself.

p

The thing is, I see no point to this change. Motivating Speech was a duration skill initially. I forget the duration but IIRC it was on the order of 30-60 minutes.

Since this modification is being made ostensibly because the skill is now raid wide, how does changing it's duration affect raid stats? An observant and diligent captain will perform the micromanagement needed to keep the buff active. So it would be no different than if it were still a toggle (other than the tedium).

Less diligent captains will just end up not using the skill unless they remember to activate it before a difficult battle.

This just affects game play with no apparent benefit or re-balance. It adds an unnecessary tedium that was addressed by making it a toggle.

If it was needed for some unknown reason to make it a duration skill again, why not a duration of 30 minutes, or even 20 minutes?

I just don't understand this change.

[SniperCT]

I routinely forget to toggle this ability when duoing with my wife, I'm absolutely not going to remember to keep it up on landscape at all lmao (it puzzled me that it wasn't like hunter stances, where toggling that will persist through log out and even death)

Reminds me of vanilla wow paladins where they had to buff the whole raid every 5 minutes. It's a ridiculous mechanic in that game and it's ridiculous here.

I can think of two compromises: have a non raid-wide version that remains a toggle, or have the raid-wide version last 30 minutes.

[Arabani]

Just make it a 30 minutes buff, five is too annoying to maintain.

[Kaeneth]

Yeah this change is really annoying. It will be annoying to have to constantly cast it in groups, and I daresay even more annoying just casting it while running around on long play session solo. There had to be a better way to do this than a 5 minute duration. It was already annoying when they made it so that it wasn't always on like it used to be, but this is worse.

[ertr]

Per update 30 patch notes, Motivating Speech is being changed from a toggle skill to a five minute duration skill. The reason given is for raid content.
Does this also affect Improved Motivating Speech?

Nothing is more enjoyable than having to watch a timer and re-apply a skill every five minutes...
This was how the skill was originally introduced and it was annoying.

Can anyone point out a useful reason for this change?

Please reconsider this. All it does is make using the skill a pain.

Once upon a time Motivating Speech was a skill with 30-minute duration.
It was widely recognized that it was annoying and pointless to have to renew this every 30 minutes, so as a QoL improvement it was changed to be always-on.
Recently it was changed, with no explanation given, so that it got turned off in a number situations and had to be reactivated every now and then. Annoying and pointless is the best way to describe this.

Now this. Reversing QoL changes, and generally making the skill much, much more annoying to handle.
Having to reapply the skill every 5 minutes does not make the skill weaker, it is just a major downturn in QoL and generally annoying.


Making it a raidwide skill does not mean raids just got more powerful. It just means the demand for captains got reduced since there will be less need for one cappy per fellowship now.

[Gertes]

I think motivation Speech was changed to a buff again, to allow it to target players outside of your group.
With this change, you basically just need 1 Captain to buff the raid, before only the players in your group received the buff.

I mean you could increase the duration by a bit, but if you make it too long like 30+min, it could be "exploited"
you could simply buff your raid group and then invite another class that replaces the captain. With a somewhat short duration, you are "forced" to have an actual captain in your raid.
But increasing it to 10-15min should not hurt much, imo.

[Erionor]

Yep, this change is just annoying, please return it to being an always-on toggle. I get that it needs to be recast to affect the whole raid, but make it always-on or give it a very long duration and REMOVE THE COOLDOWN. As has already been said, having to cast and re-cast all the time for solo play is gonna be a pain in the ###, and essentially has just resulted in a stat nerf to solo captains who will forget about it in the middle of extended questing.

[Gorikon]

I mean you could increase the duration by a bit, but if you make it too long like 30+min, it could be "exploited"
you could simply buff your raid group and then invite another class that replaces the captain. With a somewhat short duration, you are "forced" to have an actual captain in your raid.
But increasing it to 10-15min should not hurt much, imo.

I don't see this as a problem for a raid group, since taking at least a red cappy will still be the meta. But with a long duration, you could exploit it by pre-buffing a (small) fellowship group before they enter an instance.

Still, the actual implementation is annyoing. You have to recast it every five minutes, and every time a fellowship / raid member is rezzed. I'd rather see it as an aura (like it works today) that affects the whole raid. But I guess there hasn't been something like a raid wide aura skill beforehand, and that it is somehow complicated to implement, so the "make it a buff that affects everybody in its vicinity" is a quick and dirty implementation.

SSG, please check how much work implementing a raid wide aura means. (An aura which is toggled on by default). When done once, the tech could be expanded to other classes / skills.

[Anakrea]

Once upon a time Motivating Speech was a skill with 30-minute duration.
It was widely recognized that it was annoying and pointless to have to renew this every 30 minutes, so as a QoL improvement it was changed to be always-on.
Recently it was changed, with no explanation given, so that it got turned off in a number situations and had to be reactivated every now and then. Annoying and pointless is the best way to describe this.

Now this. Reversing QoL changes, and generally making the skill much, much more annoying to handle.
Having to reapply the skill every 5 minutes does not make the skill weaker, it is just a major downturn in QoL and generally annoying.


Making it a raidwide skill does not mean raids just got more powerful. It just means the demand for captains got reduced since there will be less need for one cappy per fellowship now.

^^ This says everything... Just annoying...

[Frisco]

I think motivation Speech was changed to a buff again, to allow it to target players outside of your group.
With this change, you basically just need 1 Captain to buff the raid, before only the players in your group received the buff.

I mean you could increase the duration by a bit, but if you make it too long like 30+min, it could be "exploited"
you could simply buff your raid group and then invite another class that replaces the captain. With a somewhat short duration, you are "forced" to have an actual captain in your raid.
But increasing it to 10-15min should not hurt much, imo.

That's sort of how we used to do it. Though I don't remember buffing anyone and then switching classes entirely. Maybe I did and blocked it out. But Captains had to buff each person individually with one set of buffs, and then had to Motivate/IDoME their group, get swapped into the other one, then back into the first to get the one person they missed. It was annoying to say the least.

In those days you could use your single-target buff on anyone you wanted. I would stand on the roof of the Bree stables and replace Relentless Attack with the parry buff on random Champs passing by.

Nowadays, in any content where people are going to care about exploits, you're almost certainly going to have *at least* one Captain in the group, because Motivating Speech is only a tiny part of the utility they bring.

[HolyDuckTape]

It's to: ''iNcREaSe cAPpy RotAtIOn aNd iT'S DifFICUlty''

[HerrDave]

I opened the patch notes with joy, and closed them with +5 dread, man.

Nerf to Red Captain's DPS and that horrid change to Motivating Speech-- darn it. (Pardon my language)

To me, the cornerstones of the captain are these.
- Rallying Cry makes you feel better, but isn't enough to save you when you need it
- Routing Cry stuns stuff and makes you feel like it's 2007 again <3
- Heralds are weak but we like them
- Buffs are [Passive Auras]

I loved that for a period, I could log in and have it on automatically, that was wonderful.
I didn't mind the return to the olde days of activating it when I log in, little loss in quality-of-life for nostalgia, no problem
I really don't like this 5-minute buff stuff. Certainly not as a change made wholesale for raiding reasons alone.
SSG, I would rather have to position myself like a good-noodle than re-activate something I have spent 10 years with being a passive buff.

I understand that you guys are moving the game in a more raid-oriented direction, but-- that's not what LotR is about.
As a landscape casual who loves the world you guys made and has roamed it for 14 years, I don't much like being hobbled to re-balance the world-first tier 1 Chad Captains

That's just my feedback though, I'm only 1 captain.
Have a great day, everyone

[monkeypoker]

Just make it a 30 minutes buff, five is too annoying to maintain.

Can not stress this enough! I hope they make the change to something bigger very soon. I'm not even using the skill right now because its so annoying.

[Borrommir]

This change is not acceptable. I am totally against it.

[Sherush]

Now cappy has to remember to hit this skill every 4-5 minutes. Captains had a problem when they died to remember to reapply that skill this is going to be crazy with all the other things captains have to watch out for and will place a bet 50 percent of captains won’t stay on top of it. Over this my captain is going on the shelf.

[Prefectus]

signed in just to throw my two cents in, this change is annoying. please do something else with it. 5 minute duration? really? one minute cd? come on. im a solo landscape cappy for the most part im probably not even going to bother to continually cast this all day long

[t0mm0t]

I haven't posted on the forums in years. This nerf to completely pathetic. What else needs to be said?

[Elexia]

Please change this back, just did some landscape questing and it was horrible have to recast motivating speech over and over. Bad decision in my opinion.

[Irmarie]

I've been a silent observer on these forums for 10+ years but I couldn't stay silent on this. I valared my cappy (3rd endgame toon I have) back in Dec/January and was learning the ropes slowly but surely. It became such a fun class to play, be it soloing on landscape or tanking fellow and small fellow things. Other nerf points aside, THIS is the one that I can't stand. Please, for the love of Eru, either revert it or prolong it to 30+ minutes. Imagine having to reapply hunter's stance every 5 minutes, or Find The Path - this is exactly what this feels like.

Do something about it, SSG, please.

[Elexia]

I've been a silent observer on these forums for 10+ years but I couldn't stay silent on this. I valared my cappy (3rd endgame toon I have) back in Dec/January and was learning the ropes slowly but surely. It became such a fun class to play, be it soloing on landscape or tanking fellow and small fellow things. Other nerf points aside, THIS is the one that I can't stand. Please, for the love of Eru, either revert it or prolong it to 30+ minutes. Imagine having to reapply hunter's stance every 5 minutes, or Find The Path - this is exactly what this feels like.

Do something about it, SSG, please.

I have a friend I was helping, who spent LP to level his cappy up to 120, the day before this. He's really pretty upset. I don't blame him. I mean, aren't all the other nerfs enough? Why add this one as well? It's unacceptable.

[TobiasEstForte]

The recast is even more of an issue considering its long animation. The only thing to do, would be to have it recast during phase changes. Especially since the morale % increase has to be topped up by the healers.

[MASTERRUNT]

The recast is even more of an issue considering its long animation. The only thing to do, would be to have it recast during phase changes. Especially since the morale % increase has to be topped up by the healers.

Capt is on the shelf. Wont play it. So sad.

[Elexia]

The recast is even more of an issue considering its long animation. The only thing to do, would be to have it recast during phase changes. Especially since the morale % increase has to be topped up by the healers.

The animation length is ridiculous and yeah, just puts more pressure on the healers, I agree.