What makes Wardens worth playing?

[Treadstone87]

I know that for a while, Wardens were far and away the best solo class in the game. People used to call them a one-person fellowship because of all the wild stuff they could do on their own that other classes simply could not.

But then they suffered several nerfs to their survivability, Beornings were released and a few years later revamped to become the best solo class in the game, and they stopped being seen as viable tanks.

When I first tried out Warden, back in their heyday, I wasn't a big fan of the gambit system but it seemed like an acceptable tradeoff for their best-in-game solo ability - they were harder to play, but the results were very rewarding. These days, what unique advantages do you get out of Warden in exchange for having to deal with gambits?

[Omen_Kaizer]

I can't really speak from a solo perspective because while I'm a bit of a completionist on my captain, my other characters including my warden are Valar boosted & power leveled so that I can play group content with them almost exclusively. Most of my solo experience on warden is from 2013 and prior.

Besides the very high single-target and very respectable splash AoE DPS plus the utility of adding mitigation and incoming-melee-damage debuffs which combine to make a DPS warden crucial to any well-composed raid, I'd say the most rewarding thing about playing a warden is having to deal with gambits.

[Vilda]

Ehm, for me, IT is the gambit system ! Its unique, its fun. Making decisions on the run... Just the gameplay alone is realy good

Aside the gambits - i like how flexible i can be - fast ports around Midlearth - fast leveling/questing/deeding, i can pull a lot of enemies at once and kill them, hard boss? - no problem, do I need ranged damage and keep dostance? - no problem.
(if you are asking about endgame - its damage)

And what is better than hobbit warden?

[Jascm33]

For me it was the independence. The class was designed beautifully.
I played a bard back during the original EQ days.

The utility the Warden offered in this game was the only class that came close.

Sadly just like EQ a class like this will get too many hands on it to nerf

[rubybaby1]

The style of play is very fluid with the gambit system, which makes for a unique gameplay experience. I also like how you don't have to deal with many skill cooldowns, because of the gambits. There is definitely something incredibly satisfying about running around, shouting at your horde enemies and draining their health , or when your group wipes and *somehow* you are one of the few (or last player) standing, and carrying on...

I do enjoy the ability to do ranged damage too. It has served me well, and mixes up your gameplay depending on what you need to accomplish or are in the mood for.

I solo a lot, so one day rolled a Warden and found that it actually suited me the most! Favorite class.

[Jascm33]

A class like the Ward will always get left behind or nerfed.

That is just the nature in a class like this when an MMO increases.

They are strong out of the gate but hit the nerfing hard

[gaara908776]

A class like the Ward will always get left behind or nerfed.

That is just the nature in a class like this when an MMO increases.

They are strong out of the gate but hit the nerfing hard

But it doesn’t have to be this way? Most people who play Warden have so little understanding of the potential power the class has, that they never fully utilize it. It has an extremely high skill cap, probably the highest of any class. SSG has left the main role of this class(blue line) in the gutter for so long. It deserves some attention from developers, especially considering it is a premium PAID class. Sure we can be top damage in almost every fight at level 130 right now, but the class was not designed for this. It was designed to be a one man army of a tank. It is a class that is designed to make every decision meaningful and every mistake punishing. SSG has just totally given up on taking advantage of one of the most unique Tank classes ever created and have lazily relegated Warden to a one trick pony with DoT skills.

Don’t get me wrong, Warden can still be fun and Blue line is still capable of Tanking certain instances. However, it’s extremely disheartening to Tank something like Woe T5 and go major sweat mode to survive without a healer, only to see some random captain still wearing purple gear with half their essence slots empty, take less damage, do about 5 times as much heals per second while using 4-5 abilities at most.

Just to give an example of how bad it is, my Warden has almost fully maxed out t3/4 raid gear for Blue line and in Woe T5 boss 2, my highest heals per second was 20k. I ran the instance with a very average Yellow Captain and his Heals Per Second was 75k. His damage taken was about 25% lower than mine as well.

In what world is this an acceptable outcome? Idk how any developer at SSG can sit there and say, “yeah that seems fair”.

[Kander]

But it doesn’t have to be this way? Most people who play Warden have so little understanding of the potential power the class has, that they never fully utilize it. It has an extremely high skill cap, probably the highest of any class. SSG has left the main role of this class(blue line) in the gutter for so long. It deserves some attention from developers, especially considering it is a premium PAID class. Sure we can be top damage in almost every fight at level 130 right now, but the class was not designed for this. It was designed to be a one man army of a tank. It is a class that is designed to make every decision meaningful and every mistake punishing. SSG has just totally given up on taking advantage of one of the most unique Tank classes ever created and have lazily relegated Warden to a one trick pony with DoT skills.

Don’t get me wrong, Warden can still be fun and Blue line is still capable of Tanking certain instances. However, it’s extremely disheartening to Tank something like Woe T5 and go major sweat mode to survive without a healer, only to see some random captain still wearing purple gear with half their essence slots empty, take less damage, do about 5 times as much heals per second while using 4-5 abilities at most.

Just to give an example of how bad it is, my Warden has almost fully maxed out t3/4 raid gear for Blue line and in Woe T5 boss 2, my highest heals per second was 20k. I ran the instance with a very average Yellow Captain and his Heals Per Second was 75k. His damage taken was about 25% lower than mine as well.

In what world is this an acceptable outcome? Idk how any developer at SSG can sit there and say, “yeah that seems fair”.

Let's face it, lotro devs barely spend any time in class development, and when they do, they base their opinions mostly in a playerbase feedback that is, luckily average player skill level. That's one of the reasons of rk dps nerfs in the past (probably the dps class with lowest skill cap). Now paradoxically with wardens they get hit the other end, warden for so long (probably until mordor release), were a class that barely top 20% tanking warden players could compete with other tanks, but top 10% were taking all potential of the class and they were doing silly challenges that no other class could, like doing ruined city full run without heals, tanking silent street with no healer, soloing stuff like quays t2c, RC t2c, surviving for so long without heals in fights like dome of stars, or going further back in time, tanking full foundry without any heal with ease. Soloing add waves in stuff like Fires of Smaug, or solo tank draigoch's head (I mean without the positioning exploit)... stuff that basically only wardens could do but actually only a small % of wardens could do.

An uninformed dev considered that to be overpowered (when you looked at raids and hard challenging instances, that was never the case and wardens were always 2nd option after guard). So when wardens were left unbuffed (massively nerfed at lvl 95 with trait trees) and then forgotten for many years, devs just wanted something that broke the class further: Make skill cap lower so best wardens weren't so much better than average one, and turning warden skills into less impactful ones, by not scaling heals properly, not scaling avoids properly, not scaling legacies... So that way it didn't fix the class, it just took the top players of the class the chance to actually be great tanks despite class limitations, they made the limitations impossible to overcome, while making the best players not that extremely better than average player, I understand it's easier to balance this way but it hurts the class so bad. Just think right now, compare the tanking effectiveness of warden just spamming DC vs spamming DC + all mit chains + all avoid chains + heal chains all the time. Now think how that difference was at lvl 85 for example or at lvl 105. I remember at lvl 105 you would put self buffs and then spam self heals including ranged ones (which stack with melee) and it was a massive HPS boost, or you could fully buff avoids in fight for specific encounters and you had almost 100% avoids (most partials).

The fights nowadays are so one-sided with an only one correct way to complete that if they give wardens that versatility and strength in specific encounters they would break the intended mechanics.

[gaara908776]

Let's face it, lotro devs barely spend any time in class development, and when they do, they base their opinions mostly in a playerbase feedback that is, luckily average player skill level. That's one of the reasons of rk dps nerfs in the past (probably the dps class with lowest skill cap). Now paradoxically with wardens they get hit the other end, warden for so long (probably until mordor release), were a class that barely top 20% tanking warden players could compete with other tanks, but top 10% were taking all potential of the class and they were doing silly challenges that no other class could, like doing ruined city full run without heals, tanking silent street with no healer, soloing stuff like quays t2c, RC t2c, surviving for so long without heals in fights like dome of stars, or going further back in time, tanking full foundry without any heal with ease. Soloing add waves in stuff like Fires of Smaug, or solo tank draigoch's head (I mean without the positioning exploit)... stuff that basically only wardens could do but actually only a small % of wardens could do.

An uninformed dev considered that to be overpowered (when you looked at raids and hard challenging instances, that was never the case and wardens were always 2nd option after guard). So when wardens were left unbuffed (massively nerfed at lvl 95 with trait trees) and then forgotten for many years, devs just wanted something that broke the class further: Make skill cap lower so best wardens weren't so much better than average one, and turning warden skills into less impactful ones, by not scaling heals properly, not scaling avoids properly, not scaling legacies... So that way it didn't fix the class, it just took the top players of the class the chance to actually be great tanks despite class limitations, they made the limitations impossible to overcome, while making the best players not that extremely better than average player, I understand it's easier to balance this way but it hurts the class so bad. Just think right now, compare the tanking effectiveness of warden just spamming DC vs spamming DC + all mit chains + all avoid chains + heal chains all the time. Now think how that difference was at lvl 85 for example or at lvl 105. I remember at lvl 105 you would put self buffs and then spam self heals including ranged ones (which stack with melee) and it was a massive HPS boost, or you could fully buff avoids in fight for specific encounters and you had almost 100% avoids (most partials).

The fights nowadays are so one-sided with an only one correct way to complete that if they give wardens that versatility and strength in specific encounters they would break the intended mechanics.

Yes, I get your point. But it’s kind of counterintuitive and IMO not true to say it would break the game for Warden’s to be able to perform crazy feats when played at the absolute limit. As it stands now, there are many fights where a having a good Guardian/Captain literally makes or breaks your groups ability to complete an instance. I guess I just don’t like the aspect of always having the absolute simplest most mindless role in group content. Literally every raid boss, Warden hits and cleaves off the target with the largest morale pool and never has to target swap. There is no good reason to go from the really unique and versatile style of play that Warden had for the majority of Lotro’s lifespan to what we have now.

They took away our only remaining skill that could be considered OP(Defiant Challenge Mits on multiple targets), broke our ONLY defensive cooldown(Never Surrender no longer functions the way it is supposed to on Death dealing damage). I get that they tried to buff blue line at the end of Mordor, but it still only basically put us on par with a Guardian who has no defensive cooldowns. There is plenty of potential for the class to be improved but I guess you’re right, SSG just thinks any meaningful buff to Blue warden would make it OP.

If a dev ever sees this, just remember all the crazy feats people mention Warden doing, there are probably less than 5 Warden players per server who are even capable of playing the class at that level these days.

[LagunaD2]

If a dev ever sees this, just remember all the crazy feats people mention Warden doing, there are probably less than 5 Warden players per server who are even capable of playing the class at that level these days.

I haven't played real content in years, but today I enjoyed a bit of Warden nostalgia.

I was in a Mordor Besieged Scourges group, and I needed to do The Nine deed. But for some reason, I guess because it fulfilled the requirements for a repeatable quest, the group only did eight of the Nazgul, skipping the Witch-King.

Having played Warden since Moria beta, I figured there was only one thing to do.

It took forever, since I was cycling through the Persevere and Impressive Flourish lines, and keeping Shield Tactics, Shield Mastery and Conviction up (hence doing very little damage), but I had him down to 20%, with Never Surrender up, and off cooldown, when another group zerged in and ended my solo attempt pre-maturely. Pretty sure I had him, though.

I imagine other tanks could do this, especially since my gear is very low-end, but it still reminded me of the good old days.

[Kander]

I haven't played real content in years, but today I enjoyed a bit of Warden nostalgia.

I was in a Mordor Besieged Scourges group, and I needed to do The Nine deed. But for some reason, I guess because it fulfilled the requirements for a repeatable quest, the group only did eight of the Nazgul, skipping the Witch-King.

Having played Warden since Moria beta, I figured there was only one thing to do.

It took forever, since I was cycling through the Persevere and Impressive Flourish lines, and keeping Shield Tactics, Shield Mastery and Conviction up (hence doing very little damage), but I had him down to 20%, with Never Surrender up, and off cooldown, when another group zerged in and ended my solo attempt pre-maturely. Pretty sure I had him, though.

I imagine other tanks could do this, especially since my gear is very low-end, but it still reminded me of the good old days.

That's great really, but honestly you can easily solo all except witch king with a good geared hunter. Warden soloing is good but it's pointless in landscape where everyone just blast through content with ease. The problem is that we can only remember the good old times on warden tank. At least those who enjoy dpsing on it have decent chances to play in instances. But for us that created and always liked a tank warden, after lvl 105 it was totally game over, no chance to tank anything reliably. I just wish devs could actually take a look or at least acknowledge that warden tanks are not what they're supposed to and there's some need for a full fix. Even if they don't do it asap, at least if I had a certainty they're gonna look into it in the future I'd be happy.

[gaara908776]

That's great really, but honestly you can easily solo all except witch king with a good geared hunter. Warden soloing is good but it's pointless in landscape where everyone just blast through content with ease. The problem is that we can only remember the good old times on warden tank. At least those who enjoy dpsing on it have decent chances to play in instances. But for us that created and always liked a tank warden, after lvl 105 it was totally game over, no chance to tank anything reliably. I just wish devs could actually take a look or at least acknowledge that warden tanks are not what they're supposed to and there's some need for a full fix. Even if they don't do it asap, at least if I had a certainty they're gonna look into it in the future I'd be happy.

Pretty much the same exact way I feel. I don’t think it would even take a serious amount of work to give us a temporary band-aid in the short term while they give the class a full fix.

[Ervidor]

(Its the weekly quest, Laguna D2: you have to defeat eight bosses in mordor besieged or Minas Morgul.)

[Jascm33]

I still love the ward hope to see everyone soon.

[Protecktor]

As others have stated, the gambit system is what makes it worth it (for me). It is more of a challenge when situations require you to quickly back out one, or two, gambit builder skill to adapt ( interrupt a boss skill in an instance )

[Halphast]

Versatility and the Gambit system for me. As a solo-class Warden is the most fun because of all the different things you can do. All other classes are much more limited, and dare I say it, boring... single-click skills, wait for cooldown, repeat.

Loremaster comes close, because of how strategic/tactical the gameplay is, but I find I'm still clicking the same 3 skill buttons most of the time.

[Jascm33]

Its the best design on here.

Maybe the creeps needed this setup to work a little more

[Strider5548]

But then they suffered several nerfs to their survivability, Beornings were released and a few years later revamped to become the best solo class in the game, and they stopped being seen as viable tanks.

Yea, Wardens were super powerful and I'm sure a lot of people paid for the class because of it. Now they are solid DPS but Warden tanks got completely ruined and SSG has refused to balance them for years. Beornings were the next pay to play class and are still insanely OP. On Treebeard a Beorning can solo the final boss in T3 Rift, it's just not acceptable, but again I don't think SSG cares for now because they are another pay to play class.

Once players have had their wallets fully squeezed on bears Brawler is up next. I would wager they will be disturbingly OP to start and loads of people will jump on the bandwagon to play one.

[Joedangod]

Beornings were the next pay to play class and are still insanely OP.

For the first three years of their release Beorning were the worst option for all 3 of their roles. Seems like you're coming up with conspiracy theories when the reality is that SSG is just reluctant to do frequent class tuning, Minstrel was easily the most OP healer in the entire game between 95 and early 115 and that's a totally free class. It's sadly not unusual for them to leave an overperforming spec alone for an exceptionally long time, regardless of premium status.

On Treebeard a Beorning can solo the final boss in T3 Rift

False. Maximum difficulty that has been soloed at 50 is T1. T3 Thaurlach has never been soloed on level.

[Galadh]

In the early days, I loved their versatility, Jack-of-all trades functions. Heck one time we couldn't find a minnie and I took my warden as the healer ( granted, this was back when you could trait to get 12 pulses on Conviction and I just spammed conviction, but it worked to the other players surprise). They fairly quickly ended that ability to get 12 pulses, and started nerfing dps, but I still find it an interesting class. Hunter was my main and I think I'm a good hunter, but over the last few new areas, I noticed I started doing the new content with my Warden first.

[Guidorocker]

What makes Wardens worth playing?
-You can run faster than anyone. 38% run speed (RUN speed!)
-You hit the FURTHEST. The warden javelin can be thrown FURTHER than an archers arrows!
-You can hit HARD. Kill before the MOB even gets to you.
-You can STUN. The mob can't even fight back! It is stunned and you hit-hit-hit it's dead.
You can stun far away, and another up close! (2 stuns)
-You can HEAL. 3-1-3-1 HEAL self. : )
-You have a shield and medium armor. Good protection defensively.
-You can TELEPORT to many locations with free Warden teleport skill (I forget what it's called.. like a travel to, but only for Wardens)
-Its EASY to play. You only use 3 keys to fight basically. 1-2-3. (Fist-spear-shield)

IMO it's the easiest class to play. I've played one of every class, and Wardens rock!