Brawler Feedback Thread

[Lillipia]

Okay Thank you for that.... I'll see what my crafters can do

[Impswitch]

I have read a majority of the posts, and they are right there is a huge volume of improvement for this class.

My first thought comes to mind is this, would a knight in full armor get into a brawl, would any professional fighter jump, or rather lumber, into the ring in plate mail? This class should be fast and maneuverable not laden down with heavy armor. There is your Gorilla!

This is simply a tank with no weapon how about my gauntlets get the ability to be covered in glass for extra damage like hunters and champs and captains get to throw down a quick drink for a quick DPS surge, how hard was that? really? well you do get to carry a tankard, seriously this class should be wearing at worst medium and best light gear.

But this was obviously the easiest way to get another not quite a tank class, tank class.

Now don't get me wrong, I actually like playing this class, I am in no way a hater. However there wasn't a lot of thought put in here, from icons dragged and dropped into the bar, to not being able to equip a range weapon for the added bonuses, well there is a tankard right?

Everyone gets to equip an additional weapon except this class. Well shoot if I carry a tankard why cant I get a confusion strike by throwing my beer in the orcs face? Oh sorry someone might be offended that I am carrying an alcoholic beverage around, that is until you do the pub crawl during an event?

Well since I am a brawler there should be I don't know, perhaps a few kicking strikes or maybe throw the table over defensive move, like a group save, everyone behind the table real quick. Well these are just a few thoughts beyond the basics that everyone has tossed out there and rehashed, maybe a little out of the box thinking needs to be applied?

If an out and out feeble player like myself can come up with 2 ideas in just 20 minutes, how much time was really spent on the creative side of this class? ooooo that pummel is cool looking, to bad it doesn't come with a ooooo that's a cool finisher damage.

Well my 2 cents worth.........

[Joedangod]

Everyone gets to equip an additional weapon except this class. Well shoot if I carry a tankard why cant I get a confusion strike by throwing my beer in the orcs face? Oh sorry someone might be offended that I am carrying an alcoholic beverage around, that is until you do the pub crawl during an event?

Brawlers are getting a ranged slot item (belt buckles) in Gundabad, should be somewhat comparable to Captain Banners/Burglar Emblems.

[Pavlin]

Can belive no one mentioned power starwing in blue line. I played all the classes, i never starve for power (mid and cap level)
Shuold be fixed. You use brawler as one of your main saler points SSG, and stil reduce not even half baked class. I rly wonder, do you have ppl who test the class for like 1 day/ one day/ before you release it ?
Or it "ok lets copy paste from beor and champion, ot it looks nice on papper, done, put it for sale/ I dont want to be bitchy, i do respect you and i do love the game, but as beo player, i dont want to wait another 4 /four'/ years, before you fix your class.

[Joedangod]

Can belive no one mentioned power starwing in blue line.

Because a single fate essence resolves that problem entirely?

[Woldo]

Brawlers are getting a ranged slot item (belt buckles) in Gundabad, should be somewhat comparable to Captain Banners/Burglar Emblems.

Did the belt buckle make it into todays update?
If so where do you get it?

[Mithlanros]

Did the belt buckle make it into todays update?
If so where do you get it?

Jeweler can make them, the new teir is 131 min level the recipe comes default.

[Woldo]

Jeweler can make them, the new teir is 131 min level the recipe comes default.

Thank you

[Pavlin]

Because a single fate essence resolves that problem entirely?

I wana see you wearing essence gear below lvl 100. Game is not only cap lvl content you know ...

Jeweler can make them, the new teir is 131 min level the recipe comes default.

Yes and outside that you get one journeyman recepie from trainer / for lvl 20/ and crit doesnt change the stats. The is no other recipie you can get. Trainers, drop, skirm camps, checked them all.
Shame on ssg!!!!

[Pavlin]

Brawler class item. So far we have one for lvl 20 / crafted from JC/ which even on crit doesnt change stats. And one for lvl 131.....
Brawler aoe skills range need to be ancreased. Remove Pummel or make itchanneling ion movement + dmg imcrease. T
oo many buffs to keep up / half ot hem useless. (also duration is meh)
Lack of HoT /healing over time/
Fix threat. No isnt fixed. We need copy threat taunt.
Decrease cd of Ignore Pain, or make it remove 2-3 debuffs.
Reduce Rush cost to 1 tp
We need mor overal dmg increase. At the curent state, we are 2 times behind worst dps, and 1 time behind healers. More overal dmg will also let blue tank better.
Aggressive Posture literaly make bralwer be one shoted from creeps. Give us some extra trait to spend points at, and to reduce the negative effect of the skill.
Remove first strike / no one will use it, once done with the deed/ or increase dmg and let it reward 2 mettle.
There will me more tweaks need, but this aboe are the one to make brawler desired in fellow/raid content

[Thanata]

Brawler class item. So far we have one for lvl 20 / crafted from JC/ which even on crit doesnt change stats. And one for lvl 131.....

This item is not even what it is supposed to be. I mean critical rating for companions? or in-combat moral regen for companions?
What companion, my pint? This is just a copy of the lore-master item.

[Joedangod]

This item is not even what it is supposed to be. I mean critical rating for companions? or in-combat moral regen for companions?
What companion, my pint? This is just a copy of the lore-master item.

SSG know about it, not sure how long it will be until a fix rolls out though.

[LagunaD2]

This item is not even what it is supposed to be. I mean critical rating for companions? or in-combat moral regen for companions?
What companion, my pint? This is just a copy of the lore-master item.

Amazing, isn't it?

Anyone who actually plays the game could take one look at that item and go "Whoa, this is totally wrong."

But apparently it made it into the game without anyone who actually plays the game ever seeing it.

[IanMacLyr]

I've been seeing all the discussion re: Brawlers at/near end-game... but I have to say (having only just reached L50) that running a brawler at lower levels has been (so far) an absolute blast! I can solo most fellowship quests on level and have no problem w/ mobs 3-4 levels higher I am. The thing is an absolute BEAST. Now I'm curious to see what happens at high levels.

(To look on the bright side, I'm wondering if Brawler wouldn't be the new preferred class for LP farming...)

[Flamebeard]

What's up with the Rush trait? I have >5 points in the Fundament but I can't put points into it. I'm lvl 58 atm.

[Pavlin]

What's up with the Rush trait? I have >5 points in the Fundament but I can't put points into it. I'm lvl 58 atm.

For ANY reason devs decide rush to cost 2 points per rank .... Every other class get their speed skill as based ability, HE even get is a racial, but hey, brawlers too op, let make it cost double.
Skip it and go with coffe or reroll HE
OOC speed is good only for mission and festivals anyway.

Wont even coment the range of friendly buffs. range of mele skills, number of taunt targets, lack of block, the useless pummel skill and set perk ......
Love the class, even playing it as a main atm, but shame on you devs.

[Flamebeard]

For ANY reason devs decide rush to cost 2 points per rank .... Every other class get their speed skill as based ability, HE even get is a racial, but hey, brawlers too op, let make it cost double.
Skip it and go with coffe or reroll HE
OOC speed is good only for mission and festivals anyway.

Wont even coment the range of friendly buffs. range of mele skills, number of taunt targets, lack of block, the useless pummel skill and set perk ......
Love the class, even playing it as a main atm, but shame on you devs.

Hahah, wow! Totally didn't expect this as I've been placing points as they come. So they probably added Rush but forgot to set it as 1 point cost instead of the original 2 they had in beta for The Fundament. I've bug reported this a while ago already. Thanks for the explanation!

[JyiigaQuinn]

I was tempted to make my own thread about this, but I suppose it fits here as well. Not the same sort of feedback as the others though.

I've had a Lifetime account for a very long time, but I always come back for expansions and I pay for them to support the game (instead of waiting for them to hit the points shop). I've always like punchy/unarmed classes, going back to Asheron's Call UA skill. As such I burned a 130 boost to give this one a try and to be honest... I feel bad about it now. I got in, I fixed all my skills, I figured out what does what and it is just a struggle to play. Now that I have come here and reviewed I understand why. Not a good renewed impression after a long break and now I feel like I should just put the new Brawler on a shelf until it is fixed.

It feels pretty lame to pay for something and then find it incomplete and not ready for its live server debut.

J

[OghranNasty]

Levelling my brawler slowly, level 28 and stoned atm, and I'm having a great time.
I just love punching orcs and dourhands in the face and the dirty fighting feels very much at home with a dwarf. I'll worry about endgame shenanigans when I get there, so far I love this class so much that my main is feeling neglected.

[Cvelwulf]

I finally reached level 140 today on my brawler, and I am quite depressed with its damage and survivability when compared to other classes. Even my yellow line beorning feels much stronger. I love the animations, its the selling point for the class, but everything else, feels off or annoying. Going through and spending several seconds to trigger several buffs, while watching my health deplete and my only heal spell on cooldown along with my crowd control is nerve racking. And when that skill is off cooldown, I have to be sure I use it while standing still for it to go off. Also, the cc break brawlers have, doesn't feel instantaneous like other classes, as it takes a couple of seconds to get back on my feet. Also, when get my power drained, there is no skill I can tap outside potions, I just feel like a fish out of water. The mettle system is a bit frustrating, when I consume the buff the damage it provides to trigger a skill, and it feels like a worse fervour system, which champions manage to stack quickly when compared to mettle. First strike feels mediocre, without it being a mettle generator or any other utility, besides just raw damage while only being useable on high health enemies. I don't understand why it can't just be a passive damage bonus, instead of tying up a global cool down. Also, pummel just feels miserable being channeled, especially when you compare it to a champion's ferocious strikes, which is not an induction skill and can be used while moving. Not to mention that pummel very often cancels itself, and gets canceled by enemy strikes. Again, the only thing going for pummel is its animation, otherwise it feels like it takes forever to complete and doesn't feel like I am doing much of anything besides looking cool. Lastly, I am wondering where the harm of allowing rush to just be a permanent movement buff, instead of outside of combat, considering there is no other means for a brawler to get around quickly. And why do they have 10 trait points they can sink into a buff for food buffs, instead of maybe it just being an innate bonus for the class, considering its just a percent increase and doesn't do anything fun or special.

I enjoy the theme of the class, even dumping some lotro points into travel skills and stat books, but right now, I am going to shelf it and look for another class that brings more to the table.

[Nanuks]

Of all the canon-breaking things in this game... I actually find this one the most offensive... Not because people didn't brawl in middle earth.... but If brawling were possible, why forge swords or maces? The way this game is, I'm sure brawler will be able to solo his way up to level 100... its silly that a guy with armed "fists" is going to take on a group of ...anything.

*sigh* rant over.

You never saw Kung Fu?

[Banefinger]

The review is mainly for Maelstrom spec. My plan was to do quests and content as dps and switch to tank for dungeons / raids once done (I have done over 7000 quests and finished Gundabad story).
I will review the Fulcrum later but a lot of those comments are the same for the tank spec.

Mettle System
The mechanics are fun, but the mettle regeneration and the cost are too high so it ruins the fun part. The champion skills add 1 fervor (max 5), the brawler skills add 1 (max 9).
The champion top dps skills uses more % of total Fervor but also do a lot more damage (2-3 hits) compare to 1 hit for brawler.
- The mettle builder abilities does not enough damage (almost nothing) and don't generate enough mettle. This is a big downtime for DPS and you will loose at least 3-4 sec of good dps.
- The mettle "Finishers" aren't doing enough damage for their cost.
- Since you are almost always out of Mettle, Battle Flow bonus damage is useless. The only other option is to use less finishers and that make the fight really dull.
*Proposal : Raise the dmg, have the mettle builders +2Mettle instead of 1 and have the cooldown reduced on finish moves. That will make the system more fun instead of using 3 builders before each finisher.

Toward the Sky
- The range is too close for an aoe skills (2m --> 2.7m with the Tracery). The skill is useless for aoe situation unless all mobs stack on each other and that never happen).

Quick Feint
- Cooldown too long and not enough mettle generated +6 mettle 30 sec cooldown with tracery. As Example the Champion skill full the Fervor plus fill it twice over 10 seconds, and the cooldown is 10sec.
* I would boost the skill, add regen over time and reduce cooldown.

Health Regen is an issue so much that you have to wait before combat to get HP back.
- The skills Weather Blows cd is too high.
- The skill Joy of Battle-Heal is useless on a Maelstrom Brawler spec, I would remove the 0.5s cooldown and have a max of 3% each second. The actual skill heal at max 30% for a 3m cooldown...
- I propose you add +%HP on kills like champion or warden.

"Fulgurant Strike"
I would reduce the cooldown on a Trait for the Fulcrum spec. This is a really long cooldown for a DPS melee type.

Fist of the Valar
The Damage of this skill is not enough to justify its use. You would reset Battle flow 9 (+40.5% dmg) and reset the mettle that is already an issue to get.

Bugs
The Innate Strength tier are not always increasing when you use finisher moves, Same with Sinister Cross that is supposed to double it.
My champion lvl 130 is doing more damage with his skills than my Brawler 140 on a target dummy, so there is probably a scaling problem somewhere. The champion (900k Phys M) is destroying things with half the stats of the brawler (1.4M Phys M).


Class General Feeling
The class is good but lack of polishing.
When you do Missions / Content you lack self healing / dps, so you have to wait for regen or skills cooldowns and that make the class a lot less fun.
The DPS nor the Buffs you give isn't enough to get you a spot in a raid.
Visuals effects would be nice to have when you have an Innate-Stength at its max tier.

[Joedangod]

- Cooldown too long and not enough mettle generated +6 mettle 30 sec cooldown with tracery. As Example the Champion skill full the Fervor plus fill it twice over 10 seconds, and the cooldown is 10sec.

This is the main issue with Champion comparisons. Fervour is not a mechanic. At all. Gets entirely ignored by Champions, at no point do they ever really need to think about it. Brawler resource cycling is always going to look terrible in this comparison...but Brawler isn't the problem; Champion is. There's very little point having the resource if it's not going to be something you actually think about.

I would still agree that Mettle needs to be generated better, but the improvements should probably be focused in regards to notably reducing animation duration on the set-ups (thus generating mettle faster) whilst also massively ramping up the damage set-ups do so that it doesn't feel quite as bad when you're stuck cycling set-ups in an attempt to recoup your resource pool. That's definitely the biggest issue here, we spend a lot of time waiting for set-ups to go off and nothing is really happening to the enemy in that time. Reducing the cooldown on Quick Feint/Get Serious doesn't help much as those kinda have long animations by themselves....and y'know, the sheer number of mastery boosts Brawler can apply is ridiculous (can get to +195% purely through personal buffs) and needs to be toned down rather than becoming more frequently used.

[Geometryisawesome]

That's definitely the biggest issue here, we spend a lot of time waiting for set-ups to go off and nothing is really happening to the enemy in that time.

It's okay to have a little downtime building as long as the payoff is there. It seems like the design is obvious - you build to 9, you fire off a spender, you get your three points back, then fire off another. The longer you keep doing this, the stronger you get through the innate strength buffs. This also means that if the design works, there's some skill to be had from spending and building correctly, minimizing the amount you want to use your builders. But if the class just isn't doing much damage then they're not really getting anything out of the payoff part.

The OP does a very good job of describing my problems with the class. The tiering buffs and cooldowns don't really add much on their own, and there's a lot of overlap in the functions of cooldown skills. The bonuses from the builders are just not terribly interesting either, aside from one. On the other hand, this is one of two classes whose animations and sound design really spoke to me as being properly meaty and impactful. Every helm-crusher is a treasure.

[Joedangod]

It's okay to have a little downtime building as long as the payoff is there.

Depends on what the downtime looks like compared to the payoff. And also how much time you spend in "downtime" vs "payoff".

If you're spending 90% of your time in the downtime part of the class it probably isn't going to feel particularly enjoyable, regardless of how good the payoff is. On the other hand if you were to notably buff the downtime portion so that it was only a little bit weaker than the payoff part you might find that the payoff doesn't feel quite as rewarding anymore. It's a tricky line to walk, mostly because the entire thing is totally subjective.