Filling the Gaps: following in the footsteps of the Wildwood and the Angle

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

With the Angle of Mitheithel arriving soon, I know that I am not the only one that has started wondering where the next zone which ‘fills in the gaps’ will be (following in the trend of the Wildwood and the Angle). As stated by Raninia, I know that the LOTRO devs have already come up with lots of ideas about the future direction of the game, so my aim here isn’t to convince them of next steps, but rather to speculate about areas it would be interesting to see!

I’ve come up with a few suggestions, which have a certain set of criteria:
- I’ve not included areas which would potentially be the size of a whole normal zone (so the Southfarthing, the Tower Hills, parts of the North-South Road (such as Tharbad), Anfalas, etc.)
- These zones would all be additions to existing areas (thematically, as well as physically), rather than something entirely new).

So, on to the suggestions! Please also feel free to add in your own ideas here.

Suggestion 1: The Swanfleet

Recently mentioned by Scenario, this area has a lot of potential, particularly in preparation for a Second Age Eregion. With an extended Echad Mirobel as the star, this zone would connect up the Angle to Eregion and start the process of moving southwards towards Enedwaith and towards the all important Great South Road! Recommended level of 55 (roughly the level you’d be after completing all of the Eregion quests).




Suggestion 2: Remnants of Rhudaur

In the area between the Lost Temple and Rivendell lies a potential zone ripe for a story as an Angmar-supported kingdom of Rhudaur attempts to rise again. It would be the job of our characters to stop the new king of Rhudaur in his tracks as we explore the old capital of Rhudaur. Connections here can be made to a landscape version of the Lost Temple (connected up to the North Trollshaws), the Fords of Bruinen in the south, and the road out of Rivendell north of the Bruinen (which has been inaccessible for so very long!) Other potential connections could be made to Glan Vraig in the north (although there would still have to be some kind of PVMP specific barrier there to enter the Ettenmoors) and to the Misty Mountains, north of Gloin’s Camp. Could be linked to the In Your Absence chain at Level 65, or could be set earlier around Level 40 (although there’s a glut of these).




Suggestion 3: The Deepwood

One of my bug bears about northern Rhovanion is the fact that it is ring shaped (if the ring was squished rather flat!) – there’s Eryn Lasgalen across the south, the Dale Lands and Erebor to the east, the Grey Mountains to the North and the Wells of Langflood/Vales of Anduin to the west. But in the middle of all of this is an empty area, which would greatly add to the feel of a contiguous world if it was filled in. It is one of the larger areas listed here, but fits thematically with Mirkwood. In my head, I’ve taken to calling it the Deepwood – an area which has grown wild and which Thranduil has lost control over. In the absence of the spiders, the wood-trolls dominate here, and the fabled Crown of Thorns has been bestowed upon a new King of the Wood Trolls. We could join the elves of the Woodland Realm as they attempt to purge this evil from the northern bounds of Eryn Lasgalen. This area has obviously links to Oinsbridge (in the north), Grazadh-gropor (already dominated by wood trolls in the west), Thokhat (also wood trolls, in the south), and an exit near Ravenhill to the east. Level 115.




Suggestion 4: The Goblins of Mount Gram

Back in Eriador, the dwarves of Gabilshathur and Rangers of Esteldin have encountered a new threat: vast numbers of goblins from Mount Gram. Connecting up to Gabilshathur in the north (a path through the cliffs), Dol Dinen in the south (didn't go quite far south enough in this picture) and the Ram Duath (near Ost Crithlanc) in the west, this zone would close to (but not connect with) Gramsfoot in the Ettenmoors. Level 45?




Suggestion 5: The Weather Marches

To the south and west of Mount Gram lie the Weather Marches. Sitting to the north of the Lonelands, these lands often acted as a line of defence for the kingdom of Arthedain in its battles against Rhudaur. Connecting up Dol Dinen in the north, Nen Harn and Weathertop in the west and Agamaur in the south, this zone fills in a gap which players have long explored in the past (thanks to some relatively easy climbing conditions!) and would lay the ground work for any Tales of Yore set during the fragmentation of Arnor. Level 25ish?

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Suggestion 6: The Ruins of Arthedain

Comprising both the area that I imagine most of us refer to as the ‘North Wildwood’ and the area between Evendim, Fornost and Forochel, this zone has great potential to expand on the stories of the Fall of Fornost, also linking nicely into a potential Tales of Yore (I’d love to see the fully built Fornost!) Level 40ish?

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Suggestion 7: Peaks of the Misty Mountains

This is potentially quite a big one and doesn’t really fit the rules that I set out initially, but I thought it was mentioning anyway! The Misty Mountains spans two regions: Eriador and Rhovanion, and there are some connections between the two – travelling through Moria, crossing from Kidzul-Kalah to Tal Caradhras, the Wolf-denes to the Northern High Pass and now Car Bronach to Angmar.

To me, there are a few problems here. Firstly, Kidzul Kalah is nowhere near Tal Caradhras: it makes much more sense for Kidzul-Kalah’s pass to lead to the Southern High Pass (near the Gauredain camp at Erforgh Cleft). This is marked on the map. Secondly, there should be a pass from Goblin Town to the Hidden Doorway in the Vales of Anduin, as this is the one part of Bilbo’s journey that we can’t yet follow (I forgot to mark this one on the map!). Thirdly, Tal Caradhras should be connected up, via the Redhorn Pass to Dimrill Dale.

This has previously met the response from the devs of ‘we can’t do this, as it is time and story locked’. This is fair enough, and I get why. But if there was a new zone, set in the future here, could this problem be solved?

My proposal is a ‘Peaks of the Misty Mountains’ zone, potentially connected up to the already existing Zirakzigil zone (if it is in the right place in the map). This would sit on the Rhovanion map and could stretch along the eastern side of the Misties (potentially as far north as the Wolf-denes to south to Zirakzigil) and play host to a number of paths from Rhovanion to Eriador. Obviously you wouldn’t be able to go far enough west to be able to see down into ‘Eriador’, as Eriador is on a whole different map, but it could be fully open on the eastern side (expanding on the work done in the revamp of Nanduhirion, linked to the Blood of Azog).

As for why our characters would want to go there? Following the end of the War of the Ring, the Wise could ask us to ensure that the pass is safe from threats – and I’m sure there could be plenty of threats emerging amongst the peaks! Level 120 (effectively level locked, so that lower level players couldn’t make the crossing for the sake of the story).

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

And finally, some areas which I think would benefit from a 'Bree-land' or 'Angmar' treatment (getting rid of unnecessary artificial barriers and making the world more connected):

Wildermore and the Great River




Lothlorien and the Great River - perhaps not all of the red circle!




Connecting up the parts of Fangorn - linking the Balewood, the Limlight Gorge and the Entwood!

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

I'm also going to just leave this one here, even though it doesn't really fit with the criteria of the post (due to its size and being a whole new zone - although sort of part of two already existing ones) and because it is divided up between three regions which are on different maps: r2: Rhovanion, r3: Gondor and r4: Mordor. Still, an explorer can dream of at least some part of Emyn Muil, right?

[padraxus]

Nice ideas and suggestions

Which map are you using? Is it a plugin or online help page?

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Nice ideas and suggestions

Which map are you using? Is it a plugin or online help page?

This is the awesome LOTRO Google Map - which I believe was put together by Garan. The current version is U29 (so doesn't yet have Blood of Azog's changes to Nanduhirion in it).

[Skohgar]

It would also be nice to see the ettenmoors as a full quest zone so they could move the current ones location and add the quest one to the landscape map like how osgiliath works

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

It would also be nice to see the ettenmoors as a full quest zone so they could move the current ones location and add the quest one to the landscape map like how osgiliath works

I agree. I love the Moors as a PvMP zone and wouldn't want to see anything compromise it, but I would also like to see the Ettenmoors as a fully integrated part of the LOTRO world.

[padraxus]

This is the awesome LOTRO Google Map - which I believe was put together by Garan. The current version is U29 (so doesn't yet have Blood of Azog's changes to Nanduhirion in it).

Thanks!

[Harvain]

SSG and Scenario specifically has stated more Regions such as Wildwood & the Angle for Filler Regions will be coming sooner rather than later. So it's wait and see what they do.

Which while we still don't have the 2022 Development Plan, the Angle is dealing with one aspect of what Daybreak & EG7 wanted to see with LOTRO: Improving the Experience. As we not only get a Filler Region, the connecting Region: The Trollshaws, is getting more Stable Masters and said Stable Masters being inter-connected and allowing for more ways to get to certain parts of said Region easier.

[Valather89]

Some great ideas! I especially like the Weather Marches one, that void between Lonelands and North Downs has bothered me for more than a decade lol. Swanfleet would be neat too, but it might be too big to be a Wildwood/Angle-like area. On the other hand, the area between Fornost and Ost Forod in Evendim seems like a perfect fit.

In my opinion though, the most "urgent" one is Emyn Muil/Nindalf, since it's the only missing part from Frodo's journey to Mt Doom. I know about the different databases but its own geography lends itself to feature some system of caves that could act as a transition between them. It would be tricky but it's necessary. Devs know this.

There are a couple of your ideas (gaps near Rivendell and Lothlórien) that I guess are there just in case they decide to add new Premium Housing areas. Elves and High Elves sure need some love in that regard, since all they've got for now is Falathlorn.

I could add dozens of ideas but you already gave enough suggestions for many years of development.

[Strider5548]

Fantastic suggestions, really well thought out and every one of them would be a great addition to the map. I made similar suggestions in a different thread more centered around filling the gaps, but you articulated it so much better.

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Some great ideas! I especially like the Weather Marches one, that void between Lonelands and North Downs has bothered me for more than a decade lol. Swanfleet would be neat too, but it might be too big to be a Wildwood/Angle-like area. On the other hand, the area between Fornost and Ost Forod in Evendim seems like a perfect fit.

In my opinion though, the most "urgent" one is Emyn Muil/Nindalf, since it's the only missing part from Frodo's journey to Mt Doom. I know about the different databases but its own geography lends itself to feature some system of caves that could act as a transition between them. It would be tricky but it's necessary. Devs know this.

There are a couple of your ideas (gaps near Rivendell and Lothlórien) that I guess are there just in case they decide to add new Premium Housing areas. Elves and High Elves sure need some love in that regard, since all they've got for now is Falathlorn.

I could add dozens of ideas but you already gave enough suggestions for many years of development.

The more ideas the merrier!

With the thorny issue of Emyn Muil, they've got three choices on where the zone sits:
1) The Rhovanion map
2) The Gondor map
3) The Mordor map

Of these, I think the Mordor map is the least likely, as there's already a portal between the Wastes and the Dead Marshes and this functions relatively well. The tall reeds that act as a barrier around the Wastes are fine (I have no desire to go beyond them, maybe because all that lies that way is more of the Marshes and the Brown Lands, which sound rather unappealing!

The Rhovanion map could work - starting off with making Amon Lhaw accessible and then heading east into Emyn Muil - however what I see as the biggest problem here is a potentially long land border with the Dead Marshes, which is in the Gondor region, as well as with the Beacon Hills and Taur Druadan.

This leaves the Gondor map as the best alternative. Add access to Amon Lhaw on the Rhovanion map (because I'm sure I'm not the only person who has wanted to visit it since first seeing it!), and then make a single track route through the mountains nearby, either leading to a portal or, as you suggest, a cave system. This would come out in Emyn Muil proper, which would in effect be expanded upon from the Dead Marshes.

This zone would then be expanded south, following the reed wall into Nindalf, with the eastern border transitioning over to impassible hills near the Camp of the Host. This would then lead us down to the Anduin and connect up to Taur Druadan, with all the gaps filled in in between.

In terms of content, I think it makes sense that Artamir (the Gondorian we met in the Dead Marshes) is our companion here, continuing his mission for Denethor. This would set the zone at level 100, which wouldn't be too out of sync with Taur Druadan (105) to the south.


On the other point you mention about housing - I really hope not! The Rohan Plains housing is already such an aberration in the middle of the world - I wouldn't want what is potentially a good story space to be used for this purpose!

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Fantastic suggestions, really well thought out and every one of them would be a great addition to the map. I made similar suggestions in a different thread more centered around filling the gaps, but you articulated it so much better.

Thanks!

I just went back to search for the thread of yours, as I was surprised I hadn't spotted it before, given that it aligns so much with what I find interesting - and you definitely got there ahead of me on a number of these! More access to the White Mountains (one of your suggestions) would be really awesome, in the same way that I'm interested in seeing more use of the Misties.

[auximenes]

With the Angle of Mitheithel arriving soon, I know that I am not the only one that has started wondering where the next zone which ‘fills in the gaps’ will be (following in the trend of the Wildwood and the Angle). As stated by Raninia, I know that the LOTRO devs have already come up with lots of ideas about the future direction of the game, so my aim here isn’t to convince them of next steps, but rather to speculate about areas it would be interesting to see!

Great work. I'd love to see all of these areas expanded upon but I do have a soft spot for that stretch of land running along the northern boundary of the Lonelands. I escaped the intended game grid via the eastern edge of the North Downs into that area many years ago and was fascinated by the buildings and lake with the statue in it that I found there.

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Great work. I'd love to see all of these areas expanded upon but I do have a soft spot for that stretch of land running along the northern boundary of the Lonelands. I escaped the intended game grid via the eastern edge of the North Downs into that area many years ago and was fascinated by the buildings and lake with the statue in it that I found there.

If memory serves, I think I got out of the map in the Trollshaws somewhere, then swam across the Hoardale into that area - although this was when the unexplored territory teleport had been introduced, so I couldn’t get very far to the north. I don’t remember seeing any of those buildings though - would have loved to have done so!

[auximenes]

Yeah, this was before the auto-teleport. One of my other favourite escapes was the SW border in Mirkwood. I broke free and wandered the messed-up undeveloped landscape down into what would become the Brown Lands, Great River, and the south side of the Fangorn.

[OldMadeOfLions]

I broke free and wandered the messed-up undeveloped landscape down into what would become the Brown Lands, Great River, and the south side of the Fangorn.

I don't like people sneaking out of bounds into undeveloped territory. My preferred approach is that if you want to do that, you should come work for us. Then you can see undeveloped territory to your heart's content!

MoL

[Valather89]

Since we are at it: not as much of a priority as, say, good ol' Eriador, but there's an area in Western Gondor that could get some love too, it would make it feel a bit more "open". The Caverns of Emyn Ernil (public instance) run underneath, but something could be done on the surface. I guess the name of the area could be "Emyn Ernil" proper? It would be connected to Dor-en-Ernil in Central Gondor.

[Snowlock]

Great suggestions..

I really like the idea of the weather hills and Mount Gram connecting to the Ettenmoors. And on that topic, why not have the ettenmoors connected as PVE with the pvp versions lifted off the map, accessible only by horse or map like the pvp version of Osgilliath was.

Also, Emyn Muil, swanfleet and a door from Goblin Town to Wells of Langflood are musts; especially Emyn Muil. 15 years later, and we still can't completely follow the path of Fodo!

In addition, I'd say the Wulf's Cleft area of Dunland. We'll need to be able to walk the entire north/south road one day and this will block it if it isn't fixed.

And as always, that awful urban blight in front of Edoras needs to be fixed.

[Wanderv]

Great ideas, especially Northern Lonelands but i think #1 priority should be connecting so lone Ered Luin to the rest of the world. No need to add full fledge zone like Tower Hills. It could be small road zone with size of Wildwood.

[Phantion]

Great suggestions..

I really like the idea of the weather hills and Mount Gram connecting to the Ettenmoors. And on that topic, why not have the ettenmoors connected as PVE with the pvp versions lifted off the map, accessible only by horse or map like the pvp version of Osgilliath was.

Also, Emyn Muil, swanfleet and a door from Goblin Town to Wells of Langflood are musts; especially Emyn Muil. 15 years later, and we still can't completely follow the path of Fodo!

In addition, I'd say the Wulf's Cleft area of Dunland. We'll need to be able to walk the entire north/south road one day and this will block it if it isn't fixed.

And as always, that awful urban blight in front of Edoras needs to be fixed.

A story-reason for the Kingstead Homestead suddenly vanishing from the map, which I agree with you on, could simply be that's a new town built by King Eomer following the War of the Ring to re-settle displaced folk of Rohan (*and players). That would make some sense- and, with Kingstead as a game zone time-locked during Saruman's invasion, that would work perfectly fine for me as a Rohan home-owner.


I also wholeheartedly agree with these other suggestions; Emyn Muil has been missing for too long.

I also agree that Wulf's Cleft in Dunland was a noble experiment at the time with RoI's storytelling--- but it just flat-out hasn't worked nor aged well. The "Dunlending army" looks like a pile of pixels moving around the screen, almost 2D. It's really immersion-breaking.

I'd much rather that they just clear-away those imposters and just make it a regular part of Dunland, have a regular war-camp there like in the Avanc-Luth instance from the story, have mobs on patrol and some Dunlendings on horseback, and they could just make-up some auto-quests for the area. It would make a lot more sense than the current version, and it would complete that missing part of the North - South road. It's also a fairly tiny piece of terrain compared to much of Dunland--- it would literally be no different than them adding that extra bit of terrain to Nanduhirion / TA Dimrill Dale.

Cheers!

[Aleziana]

Dude!!!! You are really into my mind!! When i saw Wildwood project and its potential idea for future filler updates i was totally expecting for number 2 area to be one of them and i never expected to see anything south of trollshaws the current Angles.

To be honest Angles doesn't feel like a zone with Wildwood's idea which is filling the world's gaps but instead it actually did the opposite and Angles created even more and expanded barriers between the world.

All those areas you suggested actually filling the World even more just like the idea of Wildwood did in the past. I really expecting all the connection north of Lone lands - North downs and Ettenmoors to be opened and i believe that our third filler update would be one of that places you suggested over that region.

I too like the idea of having an PVE version of Ettenmoors and can cross all the way from Trollshaws to Ettenmoors and to Angmar.

Misty mountain version in Rhovanion side is one of my dream areas too. I really want more mountainous areas over misty mountains. I also asked Senario in his stream if we ever gonna get a misty mountain type area in the future but my question was not clear enough and he thought i was asking for another snowy area while i was suggesting for Misty Mountains 2.0 area :P

For further comments now,

-I never understood why northern mirkwood has so much gap in the way to grey mountains . It bugs me too.
-For the region between Fangorn- west great river and south Lorien Senario did once mention that they have thought of making in the future ( i think it was on Wildwood's casual scroll)
-My thought of Wildremore :https://forums.lotro.com/forums/show...light=aleziana
-Some small barriers that still exist like the mountain north to wildwood why not to keep it as it is? i mean some places are just mountains just like in real life. You can't go there.
-The area called Emyn muil is necessary!!!!!

The guy above who suggested to open up the mountain over Gondor homestead gave me the idea of another future filler zone:

Why not TolFalas.



Why Tolfalas? Because it is an island not big enough for a whole zone and not small enough for not to be a zone so its the perfect filler zone for low levels around 100-105 and it does not add more barriers in the world because it has the sea arround.

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

Since we are at it: not as much of a priority as, say, good ol' Eriador, but there's an area in Western Gondor that could get some love too, it would make it feel a bit more "open". The Caverns of Emyn Ernil (public instance) run underneath, but something could be done on the surface. I guess the name of the area could be "Emyn Ernil" proper? It would be connected to Dor-en-Ernil in Central Gondor.

These regions definitely feel pretty cramped and restricted - opening up this area would really help with this feeling. There may be some issues with the homesteads, but again, as with the Rohan homesteads, I still fully support of making questing landscape versions of these areas, if they aren’t getting rid of them (more so for the Rohan Plains than other areas).