Creep Movement.

[J-Moneyforever]

A couple points to clarify about March, as of today's patch.


The skill tooltip says 32% (this is a bug) but the actual movement speed is 65%. This is faster than 'normal' 62% freep horses, and slower than 'better' 68% freep horses.
The 65% movement speed will not stack with other movement speed bonuses.

It requires you to stand still for a .75s induction, significantly shorter than freep mount inductions.

The skill will be broken by swimming, entering keeps, or being interrupted by an enemy, but will not be broken by entering combat.

You cannot use skills while Marching. Using an immediate skill will cancel March (using the immediate skill) but you can also queue a skill and then click March to turn it off, immediately firing the queued skill.

At the moment, you can't interact with NPCs or objects while Marching. This will be fixed soon.

Good changes as long as the bugs get fixed. A lot of people in these threads will perceive something they don't PERSONALLY like as objectively bad. These changes will help normalize movement across factions and if paired properly with updates to mapwide objectives will lead to way more diverse and enjoyable fighting conditions. Moving away from a shuffle is always a positive step despite the howlings of the shufflers.

[KylisZG]

Good changes as long as the bugs get fixed. A lot of people in these threads will perceive something they don't PERSONALLY like as objectively bad. These changes will help normalize movement across factions and if paired properly with updates to mapwide objectives will lead to way more diverse and enjoyable fighting conditions. Moving away from a shuffle is always a positive step despite the howlings of the shufflers.

A lot of people in this thread will percieve something they like as objectively good. I hope you see this works both sides. Also, maybe your signature is outdated, but are you retired or unretired? In regards to recent update, I am surprised we can actually use OOC chat while using March!.

[Areyekuwe]

A lot of people in this thread will percieve something they like as objectively good. I hope you see this works both sides. Also, maybe your signature is outdated, but are you retired or unretired? In regards to recent update, I am surprised we can actually use OOC chat while using March!.

This is actually a very IMPORTANT issue. In my opinion when it comes to MMO this is more important then actual content, namely: rollout.

Creep-side clearly is quick nip and tuck kind of job for a very long time. Even if we have devs working on it "The Dedicated Devs" That sometimes manage not to completely break something, break it just a little.

We are perpetually in a place where we are waiting for the next update that will fix the problems that just came up with the latest update.

Why not make plans? Why not plan? Like really, treat this seriously?

For example: Creeps have slow movement speed, then March, then some classes have running speed boosts. Why not just leave ALL OF THESE alone. (as a plan) Then construct this new "mount" on a side and keep updating it. So over an update or two it finally becomes a real new skill, as it is now (an actual new skill)?

---

It is all too easy to say in your live streams that PVP community is difficult to deal with and not exactly known to be so and so

But have you guys considered doing actual real rollout? You maybe short on man power and it can be hard because of that. But can we try to build excitement about new things that are introduced into the game instead of making it all look like perma-nerf creeping in, all for the sake of balance and fairness?(that is never achieved, just a bunch of upset people)

[J-Moneyforever]

A lot of people in this thread will percieve something they like as objectively good. I hope you see this works both sides. Also, maybe your signature is outdated, but are you retired or unretired? In regards to recent update, I am surprised we can actually use OOC chat while using March!.

Did you miss where I said it's only good if the bugs get fixed? Or perhaps you're one of those claiming that the fact you can't march in keeps is unfair which is patently hilarious since mounts have never worked in keeps either. Keep up the good work though. Maybe you can run off the only two devs that have put work into PvP in the last half decade.

[Ameranth]

Or perhaps you're one of those claiming that the fact you can't march in keeps is unfair which is patently hilarious since mounts have never worked in keeps either. Keep up the good work though.

I don't know why this is continually brought up, though I have some theories, but it's a red herring.

Creeps could never March in keeps either, because there were all these NPCs trying to hit them which immediately turned off the skill. They could use March to get to the quest NPCs in their own keeps a bit faster, but who cares? Movement in a friendly keep has zero effect on actual PVP. It's like complaining that freeps can ride horses around Glan Vraig.

The other supposed advantage to March that was constantly mentioned is swimming, even though creeps were also slowed down in water just as much as freeps were. The only real advantage there was not having to spend 2 seconds to remount on the other side, but that was dwarfed by all the other advantages riding had. Any imagined advantage creeps had was marginal anyway since there's only a single point on the map where anyone has to swim. If swimming was such a big deal then they could have just put a bridge or ford there.

[hanswurst13]

I don't know why this is continually brought up, though I have some theories, but it's a red herring.

Creeps could never March in keeps either, because there were all these NPCs trying to hit them which immediately turned off the skill. They could use March to get to the quest NPCs in their own keeps a bit faster, but who cares? Movement in a friendly keep has zero effect on actual PVP. It's like complaining that freeps can ride horses around Glan Vraig.

The other supposed advantage to March that was constantly mentioned is swimming, even though creeps were also slowed down in water just as much as freeps were. The only real advantage there was not having to spend 2 seconds to remount on the other side, but that was dwarfed by all the other advantages riding had. Any imagined advantage creeps had was marginal anyway since there's only a single point on the map where anyone has to swim. If swimming was such a big deal then they could have just put a bridge or ford there.

man adding a bridge or using one, omfg are you trying to tell freeps how to play ?!

dude your in the worng place here, champs need buff so they can kill defis with 1 hit, since they are so op.
thats next thing you get.

they need no reasons, they will make just some up to nerf creeps and give freeps the possibility to choose fights when they like to eg. farming lv0-3 creeps for fun.

this game has insane balance issues, and the devs are not able to fix them.

just post on freep forum "x class sucks, wait 2 weeks it gets hilariously buffed, so the so called "devs", they are cleary not, since they are only able to raise hp to mobs, or break skills.
this is no developmet this is just 2 stoners changing values.


buff freeps more, my lvl 1 hunter cant one shoot a lv 15 creep, no fun here and add more range to freeps while your at it.

give one hit defi one hit wl´s lvl15 skill for freeps, like ### they can heal ?!

[Areyekuwe]

man adding a bridge or using one, omfg are you trying to tell freeps how to play ?!

dude your in the worng place here, champs need buff so they can kill defis with 1 hit, since they are so op.
thats next thing you get.

they need no reasons, they will make just some up to nerf creeps and give freeps the possibility to choose fights when they like to eg. farming lv0-3 creeps for fun.

this game has insane balance issues, and the devs are not able to fix them.

just post on freep forum "x class sucks, wait 2 weeks it gets hilariously buffed, so the so called "devs", they are cleary not, since they are only able to raise hp to mobs, or break skills.
this is no developmet this is just 2 stoners changing values.


buff freeps more, my lvl 1 hunter cant one shoot a lv 15 creep, no fun here and add more range to freeps while your at it.

give one hit defi one hit wl´s lvl15 skill for freeps, like ### they can heal ?!

You are overly dramatic. It actually goes like this:

Made up quote:
Hello,
I play since before the alpha, beta, omega.
I only play creepside and have reached rank 5.
I also do not play freep side in PVE or PVP, it is too boring, this is why I have 10+ characters there that I have given up playing.
Well some are level cap and that maybe the reason why, but you know my creeps, lets talk about my creeps.
They feel so sad and bad and monster-like. This is actually good. Please do not change a thing, but consider nerfing the heals.
The heals do not belong in the moors because they stop freeps from killing the monsters. You know.

What can I say, there are unreasonable people in life, lotro and lotro forums, oh there are also the sneaky (read the signature) ones lol - they usually do not pretend hard enough.

[awargstale]

Damage taken will eventually break March, and interrupts will break it immediately (this is how freep mounts work)

This is not the case. Recently the warg interupt skill "Eye Rake/Gouge/Gash" has not worked to dismount freeps.

[TearMaker]

Maybe you can run off the only two devs that have put work into PvP in the last half decade.

I've had my pitchfork on standby since the day Orion returned. Benefit of the doubt was given because it couldn't be the same again all these years later with more experience and all? Could it?

I think the time for that extended benefit has passed. It is exactly the same as all those years ago with a few sprinkles on top. The sprinkles being that they have to talk with us a little instead of completely ignoring.

However, nothing has changed. They have their minds set before even speaking to anyone and nothing will deter them from this endeavour. I mean if you were around in the first 5 years of this game.. can you not remember?


Pitchforks should unite and run off these rustlers before all the cattle are lost.

[ScoobySnackz]

The new march feels like it's own mini game...Should I put march on and run 50 meters to turn in a quest, or leave it off!? I just got to remember to turn it off if I put it on, so I can hand in.

"Freep sighted ready the toxic venom!" oh wait, let me turn off march first.

It's not good as it stands now, and the shutting off in keeps wasn't really needed. its going to shut off in enemy keeps anyways, but it is just tedious to run into your own keep and have it shut off when you want to hand in quests....but questing in Moors is another story.

[SSG_Orion]

The new march feels like it's own mini game...Should I put march on and run 50 meters to turn in a quest, or leave it off!? I just got to remember to turn it off if I put it on, so I can hand in.

"Freep sighted ready the toxic venom!" oh wait, let me turn off march first.

It's not good as it stands now, and the shutting off in keeps wasn't really needed. its going to shut off in enemy keeps anyways, but it is just tedious to run into your own keep and have it shut off when you want to hand in quests....but questing in Moors is another story.

Yes, the issue with not being able to turn in quest was onerous. Fortunately, it is being fixed.

[ScoobySnackz]

Yes, the issue with not being able to turn in quest was onerous. Fortunately, it is being fixed.

Ah ok, thank you Orion.

[DSBoomer]

The new march feels like it's own mini game...Should I put march on and run 50 meters to turn in a quest, or leave it off!? I just got to remember to turn it off if I put it on, so I can hand in.

"Freep sighted ready the toxic venom!" oh wait, let me turn off march first.

It's not good as it stands now, and the shutting off in keeps wasn't really needed. its going to shut off in enemy keeps anyways, but it is just tedious to run into your own keep and have it shut off when you want to hand in quests....but questing in Moors is another story.

Haha, definitely happens like that. I've also jumped into fights only to realize I wasn't actually doing any dps cause, March!. It's usually about the time I try to Web the Earth that I realize I never turned it off and have just been running around in circles not actually doing anything. Probably happens at least twice a night. Just going to take some getting used to I guess. But I like it.

[SingularityNow]

"Freep sighted ready the toxic venom!" oh wait, let me turn off march first.

Don't freeps have to do the same thing when they're on a horse? Have you considered a hot key?

Haha, definitely happens like that. I've also jumped into fights only to realize I wasn't actually doing any dps cause, March!.

There should be like an aura around us. Or like hunters kicking up leaves when they have their speed thing on. Something to remind us it's on.

[ScoobySnackz]

Don't freeps have to do the same thing when they're on a horse? Have you considered a hot key?



There should be like an aura around us. Or like hunters kicking up leaves when they have their speed thing on. Something to remind us it's on.

I am not adverse to the changes, but like you said, it would be good to have a reminder that March is on.

[CarenC]

The new march feels like it's own mini game...Should I put march on and run 50 meters to turn in a quest, or leave it off!? I just got to remember to turn it off if I put it on, so I can hand in.

"Freep sighted ready the toxic venom!" oh wait, let me turn off march first.

It's not good as it stands now, and the shutting off in keeps wasn't really needed. its going to shut off in enemy keeps anyways, but it is just tedious to run into your own keep and have it shut off when you want to hand in quests....but questing in Moors is another story.

So we can turn in quest at least, but still have to turn it off and on when picking up any type of quest items from landscape. I get their point that they want to make it seem as though we have invisible horses like freeps so that the movement is the same, but it still is absurd. We don't have horses, we aren't freeps, Stop trying to align creeps and freeps unless you give the creeps the same advantages that freeps have. SSG listens to freeps cry and ignore the creeps concerns of their adjustments. We still can't buff with March on, can freeps buff while on horses??? Yes they can. Can't eat food with March on. Can freeps eat food while on horse? Yes they can. Come on. Can SSG please get this right or put it back the way it was. As a defiler, just keep March off while running around map if you are having to wait the ridulous CD of your maps, that way u can still buff and heal yourself just in case you run into a freep.

[SingularityNow]

I get their point that they want to make it seem as though we have invisible horses like freeps so that the movement is the same, but it still is absurd. We don't have horses, we aren't freeps, Stop trying to align creeps and freeps unless you give the creeps the same advantages that freeps have.

Hypothetically then, would you rather Freeps have maps and creeps keep march? So that will make them different?

[CarenC]

Hypothetically then, would you rather Freeps have maps and creeps keep march? So that will make them different?

No, I would rather if SSG wants to make creeps March and Freeps horse animation/speed aligned, then align it to be the same with the same benefits. It was just fine the way it has been for 15 + yrs but change happens so make it fair. Why should freeps beable to use Motivating speech on horse but creeps can't use Imposing presence, why should freeps be able to eat, but creeps can't, why does Mobilise only give 20% increase speed but cappies Make Haste give 25%. I am just touching on some of the indifferences. There is just no reason for them to block usage of buff skills when in March. The only thing that I noticed we can use while in match is our DOF pots, which is at least something.

[SingularityNow]

No, I would rather if SSG wants to make creeps March and Freeps horse animation/speed aligned, then align it to be the same with the same benefits. It was just fine the way it has been for 15 + yrs but change happens so make it fair. Why should freeps beable to use Motivating speech on horse but creeps can't use Imposing presence, why should freeps be able to eat, but creeps can't, why does Mobilise only give 20% increase speed but cappies Make Haste give 25%. I am just touching on some of the indifferences. There is just no reason for them to block usage of buff skills when in March. The only thing that I noticed we can use while in match is our DOF pots, which is at least something.

Well are you forgetting that we still have maps? Or that we can use an immediate skill to cancel march and the immediate skill will fire? Freeps don't have that. Do you want them gone too?

[CarenC]

[QUOTE=SingularityNow;8169387]Well are you forgetting that we still have maps? Or that we can use an immediate skill to cancel march and the immediate skill will fire? Freeps don't have that. Do you want them gone too?[/QIt

It is the same as getting on and off horses, except creeps have no horse. I play freep also just not in the moors anymore and I see no difference. To be able to map to one location and then have to wait an hour to map again, gives the creeps no advantage. It just delays the return to the fight and saves my k/d ratio from dropping I would be glad to discuss this further with you in game if you like. The forums isnt a true place to have a debate between the 2 of us

[Kate00]

[QUOTE=CarenC;8169389]

Well are you forgetting that we still have maps? Or that we can use an immediate skill to cancel march and the immediate skill will fire? Freeps don't have that. Do you want them gone too?[/QIt

It is the same as getting on and off horses, except creeps have no horse. I play freep also just not in the moors anymore and I see no difference. To be able to map to one location and then have to wait an hour to map again, gives the creeps no advantage. It just delays the return to the fight and saves my k/d ratio from dropping I would be glad to discuss this further with you in game if you like. The forums isnt a true place to have a debate between the 2 of us

This so called "creep" who trolls the forums forgets that those maps acted like an icr. You know like the 100 million that freeps have (obvious exaggeration). To make it fair then defilers should have one. period.

[CarenC]

[QUOTE=Kate00;8169401]

This so called "creep" who trolls the forums forgets that those maps acted like an icr. You know like the 100 million that freeps have (obvious exaggeration). To make it fair then defilers should have one. period.

I agree Kate. Defilers should have an incombat rez. I just dont understand why SSG felt the need to change March and Mobilize and not align it with what freeps can do while on horse. But like I have said earlier in this post, I will not be back until this is corrected. They nerf Snare, but then the hunter's traps do triple the damage per tick that snares did before nerf, they nerf our stats and give us Blessings LMAO (hey thanks for the nerf), they up'd our map CDs to an hour so we can't get back to the fight (oh but u have March). I guess I am just tired of the continue nerfs in creeps and then the freeps get increased damage. I pay my Sub, I play freep PVE so don't tell me I don't contribute to the game. But now I will just deed on freepside and earn my LP. Have fun out there.

[Kate00]

[QUOTE=CarenC;8169407]

I agree Kate. Defilers should have an incombat rez. I just dont understand why SSG felt the need to change March and Mobilize and not align it with what freeps can do while on horse. But like I have said earlier in this post, I will not be back until this is corrected. They nerf Snare, but then the hunter's traps do triple the damage per tick that snares did before nerf, they nerf our stats and give us Blessings LMAO (hey thanks for the nerf), they up'd our map CDs to an hour so we can't get back to the fight (oh but u have March). I guess I am just tired of the continue nerfs in creeps and then the freeps get increased damage. I pay my Sub, I play freep PVE so don't tell me I don't contribute to the game. But now I will just deed on freepside and earn my LP. Have fun out there.

I don't think people, (freeps), or these people in discord realize what a nerf this was. I can no longer get around the map as I used to. The shuffle is the worst I've ever seen it now. I still can't catch horses and I still have no ranged interupt to dismount them. So, what's the point? At least with the map cd I had before I had a chance to map ahead of freeps and it acted like an in combat rez that I don't have.

IIRC, with the removal of maps the action was supposed to be spread out across the map. The theory was that it would force creeps to move across previously unused portions of the map. (Which they were already doing) However, I'm not using any parts of the map except pt/tr. My incentive to travel the map is gone. Creeps are complaining in ooc that they can no longer find freeps in questing areas. Like I said, the action is a massive shuffle that is the worst it's ever been. So, my question is ... When will they admit they were wrong?

[Neinda]

[QUOTE=Kate00;8169430]

I don't think people, (freeps), or these people in discord realize what a nerf this was. I can no longer get around the map as I used to. The shuffle is the worst I've ever seen it now. I still can't catch horses and I still have no ranged interupt to dismount them. So, what's the point? At least with the map cd I had before I had a chance to map ahead of freeps and it acted like an in combat rez that I don't have.

IIRC, with the removal of maps the action was supposed to be spread out across the map. The theory was that it would force creeps to move across previously unused portions of the map. (Which they were already doing) However, I'm not using any parts of the map except pt/tr. My incentive to travel the map is gone. Creeps are complaining in ooc that they can no longer find freeps in questing areas. Like I said, the action is a massive shuffle that is the worst it's ever been. So, my question is ... When will they admit they were wrong?

Changes are done. Changes are set in stone. They need to shrink the map to about half the current size and implement quests that force freeps and creeps out and about. The current map is too big for the size of the PVP population. No maps means no reason for creeps to be out and about. There is no incentive for either side to wander. The whole area is too big to find random people.

[Kate00]

[QUOTE=Neinda;8169448]

Changes are done. Changes are set in stone. They need to shrink the map to about half the current size and implement quests that force freeps and creeps out and about. The current map is too big for the size of the PVP population. No maps means no reason for creeps to be out and about. There is no incentive for either side to wander. The whole area is too big to find random people.

so instead of reverting the map cd you want them to redesign the map? that seems like a lot of extra work.