Captain Changes and Feedback

[Hephburz-2]

The utter radio silence on the forums when such a major rework of the class is being pushed through, is just a slap in the face to every single Captain who has posted in this thread, sharing their thoughts and to be perfectly honest almost 90% of the feedback given here has been completely ignored or just blissfully overlooked. This rework will completely destroy the Captain in the form that I have come to enjoy and call my main;


Yellow Line Captain is being hit the hardest, the entire specialisation tree brings nothing to the table that a Red or Blue Captain themselves couldn't also provide if they wanted to - yellow line brings nothing unique to the table anymore, they have lost almost all of their group utility and group healing, which was the reason for their overall weakness in tanking ability - and now, we have a tank that can marginally better stay alive, yet provides nothing worth taking over a different tank, especially in Raid Content. Not only that, but when you consider the nerfs to YCaptain alongside the egregious buffs to BWarden it is just a joke, 'a Captain, the true support class, should not provide this level of support anymore, but it is totally okay for another tank to do it' - give me a break. Yellow Captain will be the 3man tank and that's it, they will never again see the light of day in a t5 raid. So, thank you OMM for destroying that.

Red Line Captain just now plays horribly, and quite frankly has done so since the implementation of the new LI system. If I wanted to do big DPS numbers, I would pick an actual DPS class with a dedicated DPS spec, doing damage was not the reason the majority of Captains ever chose to play Red Captain in the first place - it certainly wasn't my reason. I chose the Class/Line to be able to play a support / off-healer that also contributed some damage, this entire identity has been stripped away, first with the changes to the LI system that entirely destroyed your ability to make Hybrid specs in the first place because of the WoPs and lesser amount of Class traceries you could use, and now, preventing two of our healing skills from actually healing, as well as a massive reduction in the level of support provided across the board - and all for what? So that the Captain themselves can do more damage? No thank you. The Stand-Alone stance is a wonderfully fine addition, IF it was true to its name and that it was meant for non-group orientated play, in that it significantly buffed your damage and survivability so that at least Landscape/Missions/Delvings/Dailies were not a horrible slog that made me want to log off afterwards, but this stance should never be something you want to use in a group environment, the fact that your damage is more or less the same, both in/out of this stance shows an utter lack of foresight and understanding of the Captain class as well. Red Line Captain is not meant to be a DPS class. This 'rework' is probably going to destroy the identity of the class in the biggest way.

Blue Line Captain, much the same as above, it just plays horribly. You can output egregious numbers in HPS value, yet, the amount of that that is overheal is disgusting, which was one of the main problems with the line to begin with (alongside a lack of ST healing), which this rework has done nothing to address. As a Melee healer that is supposed to be hitting a target in order to heal, having to either click or hotkey to a specific target that needs healing to use your now biggest healing skill (Gift) is a horrible feeling and totally breaks the fluidity of the line. The fact that your biggest healing skill is also entirely RNG with its activation is also another gross oversight. Offensively, this line still offers absolutely nothing that can compete with a Beorning or Minstrel healer, and defensively, Runekeeper is still the better choice - fates entwined has the shorter cooldown in comparison to IHW, and is also not a death sentence to the RK either, the AoE raid-wide bubble which is also reset with CtG is still uncontested in all situations where the raid is expected to take heavy damage, on top of the buffs applied by the RKs bubbles (-% inc damage & +% inc healing) - ESPECIALLY when you now consider Blue Captains main healing cooldown, Reform the Lines, is no longer a Raid Wide healing skill. Blue Captain can simply boast its ability to keep a single target alive, whilst watching its HPS values go crazy, yet, somehow still struggle to keep the rest of its group (and themselves) alive.


I will no longer be playing Captain thanks to these changes, this is not the class I have grown to love, this rework has utterly destroyed the identity of the class which was a Hybrid Class with the ability to do many things but not being overly good at any of them - in favour of tunnel vision in each line, if I wanted to play a DPS class that did nothing else I'd play a Hunter, if I wanted to play a Tank that did nothing but stay alive and laugh I'd play a Guardian or a Brawler, and if I wanted to play a healer that could only heal and do nothing else, I'd play a different game (which I now am anyway).

[1Asy1]

The utter radio silence on the forums when such a major rework of the class is being pushed through, is just a slap in the face to every single Captain who has posted in this thread, sharing their thoughts and to be perfectly honest almost 90% of the feedback given here has been completely ignored or just blissfully overlooked. This rework will completely destroy the Captain in the form that I have come to enjoy and call my main;


Yellow Line Captain is being hit the hardest, the entire specialisation tree brings nothing to the table that a Red or Blue Captain themselves couldn't also provide if they wanted to - yellow line brings nothing unique to the table anymore, they have lost almost all of their group utility and group healing, which was the reason for their overall weakness in tanking ability - and now, we have a tank that can marginally better stay alive, yet provides nothing worth taking over a different tank, especially in Raid Content. Not only that, but when you consider the nerfs to YCaptain alongside the egregious buffs to BWarden it is just a joke, 'a Captain, the true support class, should not provide this level of support anymore, but it is totally okay for another tank to do it' - give me a break. Yellow Captain will be the 3man tank and that's it, they will never again see the light of day in a t5 raid. So, thank you OMM for destroying that.

Red Line Captain just now plays horribly, and quite frankly has done so since the implementation of the new LI system. If I wanted to do big DPS numbers, I would pick an actual DPS class with a dedicated DPS spec, doing damage was not the reason the majority of Captains ever chose to play Red Captain in the first place - it certainly wasn't my reason. I chose the Class/Line to be able to play a support / off-healer that also contributed some damage, this entire identity has been stripped away, first with the changes to the LI system that entirely destroyed your ability to make Hybrid specs in the first place because of the WoPs and lesser amount of Class traceries you could use, and now, preventing two of our healing skills from actually healing, as well as a massive reduction in the level of support provided across the board - and all for what? So that the Captain themselves can do more damage? No thank you. The Stand-Alone stance is a wonderfully fine addition, IF it was true to its name and that it was meant for non-group orientated play, in that it significantly buffed your damage and survivability so that at least Landscape/Missions/Delvings/Dailies were not a horrible slog that made me want to log off afterwards, but this stance should never be something you want to use in a group environment, the fact that your damage is more or less the same, both in/out of this stance shows an utter lack of foresight and understanding of the Captain class as well. Red Line Captain is not meant to be a DPS class. This 'rework' is probably going to destroy the identity of the class in the biggest way.

Blue Line Captain, much the same as above, it just plays horribly. You can output egregious numbers in HPS value, yet, the amount of that that is overheal is disgusting, which was one of the main problems with the line to begin with (alongside a lack of ST healing), which this rework has done nothing to address. As a Melee healer that is supposed to be hitting a target in order to heal, having to either click or hotkey to a specific target that needs healing to use your now biggest healing skill (Gift) is a horrible feeling and totally breaks the fluidity of the line. The fact that your biggest healing skill is also entirely RNG with its activation is also another gross oversight. Offensively, this line still offers absolutely nothing that can compete with a Beorning or Minstrel healer, and defensively, Runekeeper is still the better choice - fates entwined has the shorter cooldown in comparison to IHW, and is also not a death sentence to the RK either, the AoE raid-wide bubble which is also reset with CtG is still uncontested in all situations where the raid is expected to take heavy damage, on top of the buffs applied by the RKs bubbles (-% inc damage & +% inc healing) - ESPECIALLY when you now consider Blue Captains main healing cooldown, Reform the Lines, is no longer a Raid Wide healing skill. Blue Captain can simply boast its ability to keep a single target alive, whilst watching its HPS values go crazy, yet, somehow still struggle to keep the rest of its group (and themselves) alive.

I will no longer be playing Captain thanks to these changes, this is not the class I have grown to love, this rework has utterly destroyed the identity of the class which was a Hybrid Class with the ability to do many things but not being overly good at any of them - in favour of tunnel vision in each line, if I wanted to play a DPS class that did nothing else I'd play a Hunter, if I wanted to play a Tank that did nothing but stay alive and laugh I'd play a Guardian or a Brawler, and if I wanted to play a healer that could only heal and do nothing else, I'd play a different game (which I now am anyway).

Couldn't agree more, the essence of the class is to support others within the group, and you've completely missed the original purpose of the class. If you're planning to move to a WoW model where there are only 3 parent classes - DPS, Tank, and healer then please say so.

Properly disappointed.

[Aeviternus]

The utter radio silence on the forums when such a major rework of the class is being pushed through, is just a slap in the face to every single Captain who has posted in this thread, sharing their thoughts and to be perfectly honest almost 90% of the feedback given here has been completely ignored or just blissfully overlooked. This rework will completely destroy the Captain in the form that I have come to enjoy and call my main;


Yellow Line Captain is being hit the hardest, the entire specialisation tree brings nothing to the table that a Red or Blue Captain themselves couldn't also provide if they wanted to - yellow line brings nothing unique to the table anymore, they have lost almost all of their group utility and group healing, which was the reason for their overall weakness in tanking ability - and now, we have a tank that can marginally better stay alive, yet provides nothing worth taking over a different tank, especially in Raid Content. Not only that, but when you consider the nerfs to YCaptain alongside the egregious buffs to BWarden it is just a joke, 'a Captain, the true support class, should not provide this level of support anymore, but it is totally okay for another tank to do it' - give me a break. Yellow Captain will be the 3man tank and that's it, they will never again see the light of day in a t5 raid. So, thank you OMM for destroying that.

Red Line Captain just now plays horribly, and quite frankly has done so since the implementation of the new LI system. If I wanted to do big DPS numbers, I would pick an actual DPS class with a dedicated DPS spec, doing damage was not the reason the majority of Captains ever chose to play Red Captain in the first place - it certainly wasn't my reason. I chose the Class/Line to be able to play a support / off-healer that also contributed some damage, this entire identity has been stripped away, first with the changes to the LI system that entirely destroyed your ability to make Hybrid specs in the first place because of the WoPs and lesser amount of Class traceries you could use, and now, preventing two of our healing skills from actually healing, as well as a massive reduction in the level of support provided across the board - and all for what? So that the Captain themselves can do more damage? No thank you. The Stand-Alone stance is a wonderfully fine addition, IF it was true to its name and that it was meant for non-group orientated play, in that it significantly buffed your damage and survivability so that at least Landscape/Missions/Delvings/Dailies were not a horrible slog that made me want to log off afterwards, but this stance should never be something you want to use in a group environment, the fact that your damage is more or less the same, both in/out of this stance shows an utter lack of foresight and understanding of the Captain class as well. Red Line Captain is not meant to be a DPS class. This 'rework' is probably going to destroy the identity of the class in the biggest way.

Blue Line Captain, much the same as above, it just plays horribly. You can output egregious numbers in HPS value, yet, the amount of that that is overheal is disgusting, which was one of the main problems with the line to begin with (alongside a lack of ST healing), which this rework has done nothing to address. As a Melee healer that is supposed to be hitting a target in order to heal, having to either click or hotkey to a specific target that needs healing to use your now biggest healing skill (Gift) is a horrible feeling and totally breaks the fluidity of the line. The fact that your biggest healing skill is also entirely RNG with its activation is also another gross oversight. Offensively, this line still offers absolutely nothing that can compete with a Beorning or Minstrel healer, and defensively, Runekeeper is still the better choice - fates entwined has the shorter cooldown in comparison to IHW, and is also not a death sentence to the RK either, the AoE raid-wide bubble which is also reset with CtG is still uncontested in all situations where the raid is expected to take heavy damage, on top of the buffs applied by the RKs bubbles (-% inc damage & +% inc healing) - ESPECIALLY when you now consider Blue Captains main healing cooldown, Reform the Lines, is no longer a Raid Wide healing skill. Blue Captain can simply boast its ability to keep a single target alive, whilst watching its HPS values go crazy, yet, somehow still struggle to keep the rest of its group (and themselves) alive.


I will no longer be playing Captain thanks to these changes, this is not the class I have grown to love, this rework has utterly destroyed the identity of the class which was a Hybrid Class with the ability to do many things but not being overly good at any of them - in favour of tunnel vision in each line, if I wanted to play a DPS class that did nothing else I'd play a Hunter, if I wanted to play a Tank that did nothing but stay alive and laugh I'd play a Guardian or a Brawler, and if I wanted to play a healer that could only heal and do nothing else, I'd play a different game (which I now am anyway).

Wholeheartedly agree with this. Admittedly, my only concern is for blue line, I never intended to play the other two. And blue line is better off on BR4, than it is on live, in most situations. But that isn't the problem. Several concerns remain, some of which were in fact exacerbated by the changes. These concerns were never even acknowledged, but they are sufficiently serious that I doubt the spec will be considered "viable" in any challenging content.

All the while, the class dev has been active on a private discord - a communication channel that I do not have access to because I was banned from it for disagreeing with the handful of people who have made that discord server their second home. No wonder we are in this state, when a discord server that serves as nothing but an echo chamber for the same small group of people sees more developer interaction than the official forums.

[auximenes]

I felt good about this process at first since OMM was engaged here but then *poof* it all went away. That he's regularly on an unofficial discord channel instead of engaging here is insulting.

I think OMM bit off (or was assigned) more than he could chew and Warden got the majority of the time. Fine, the Captain rework should have been delayed until the proper attention could be given to it.

I think the Captain just needed a few tweaks instead of this major rework. Red-line could have just had the Stand-alone stance added to it that offered the option to buff the DPS on select skills while also reducing outgoing healing, easy-peasy.

As a primarily casual solo Red Captain I'll be better off with the changes than the other lines but that doesn't mean I'm happy with the changes to all facets of the class.

[Arabani]

Blue captain is very inconvenint to play, highly dependant on the group composition and the encounter. The core issues of the class have not been fixed, but more unneeded mechanics were added instead.

As people have already mentioned, bCaptain can push good heal numbers, but can't really heal. The lack of ST healing has not been adressed -WoC is still a small heal and Gift is rng based and very clumsy, the lack of group healing has non been adressed, the lack of emergency tools has not really been adressed-Reform the line is weak, IHW is dangerous, Banner has positional issue, SoD is one target and on a big CD, the lack of selfhealing has not been adressed, the lack of survivability has not been adressed -it is a HUGE issue for bCaptain, the lack of dps has not been adressed, the lack of buffs has not been adressed, the lack of non melee heals has not been adressed.

The only aspect that got rework was tank healing, and while it is better then before, it suffers from the troubles mentioned above-if something goes wrong, or the tank is undergeared, bCaptain has limited tools to help him.

In short, bCpatain needs to work harder then other healers to achieve the same result, always walking on the edge. If the group is not geared enough, if the content is new-wipes are guaranteed. It is very frustrating for the cpatain and the group.

I also have a feeling that many of the changes were made with PvMP in mind. Which should never happen. PvMP is a different game with its own rules.

As for Discord, while I understand that it is easier to communicate there-you can just write a few lines, a few comments fast, while working. Instead of dedicating time to posting on the forum-doing it in the UNOFFICIAL channel, engaging with a small part of community, in the place to which many people have no access, is insulting indeed for the rest of the playerbase. That is why an official lotro Discrod is needed.

All in all I'm very disappointed with the class rework-the jobs has not been done well. Even the opposite-many new problems have arised.