Bullroarer Update 35 - Beta #4 - CLOSED

[Strider5548]

While there is clearer impact in PvMP, this change is not due to PvMP. The ability was overpowered. For landscape, it is less of an issue. Once you move into instance spaces it becomes more an issue.

I don't think I've ever seen this be an issue in instances. There are only two reasons to use a non-melee attack for stunning a target while you have traited sprint up. The first and main reason is PvMP, this gives guards/champs a way to catch a target that isn't in immediate melee range. The second reason is for rare cases where landscape content can be hard and you need a ranged stun (i.e. deadly+ on legendary servers or trying to solo elite masters).

The change does not prevent AoE stuns from traited sprint, it just makes it so you can't use a non-melee skill (i.e. taunt, war chant, true heroics, champ duel, etc.), so the only difference is you can't do it at range anymore. Unless I'm missing something I don't see how red guards or champs being able to range stun trash mobs in instances after they hit sprint is OP.

I don't really care that this ability is gone, but it does feel like PvMP is the only part of the game where this made any real difference.

[Elgol]

I like the change to require PVP gear in the moors but the cloaks feel like they need a balance. There are too many jumps between the stats and they feel really weak until atleast rank 8+. Maybe if the stats were more linear. The change between rank 9 and rank 10 cloaks is also a little too massive of a change.

[Roga]

The Self-motivation tracery will now increase the amount of morale restored, if you have traited the skill to restore morale rather than power.




Let Self-motivation untouched, so it give moral and power. There is now Class change for Runekeeper in this update. So dont change skills.

[Elmagor]

People complain about RK burn energy too fast, and you just change his skill, so he will regen even less energy, or waste his best surviving skill to get energy?

And what I just read? You add new training dummy in Mount Gram, but every time when you summon your new shiny training dummy, monster guardian scream "horrible freeps in da house!" and kill it? So you fix it, because you never bother to flag him as friendly target in first place? Ok...

[flirtswithmediocrity]

after 2 dummy parses on yellow and red champ. Yellow power restore is much improved, red is also better however it requires food to complete a 3 minutes parse. Red tests were dual wield, so potentially dual wield consumes power at a greater rate due to increased strikes/sec.

[Arabani]

I just wonder, why make powerdrain/the cost of skills so high and then add an ability to restore power to basically every class?

[Pewpewmidget]

after 2 dummy parses on yellow and red champ. Yellow power restore is much improved, red is also better however it requires food to complete a 3 minutes parse. Red tests were dual wield, so potentially dual wield consumes power at a greater rate due to increased strikes/sec.

Attack per second affects power consumption, correct.
Ever since they tried to even out the damage difference between dual wielding and 2h, the weapon preferences switched places.
Red favored 2h back in MM and now favors dual wielding. Yellow favored dual wielding back in MM and now favors 2h.

I'm curious about the swift blade change, do you get power for every target you hit?

[Pewpewmidget]

I just wonder, why make powerdrain/the cost of skills so high and then add an ability to restore power to basically every class?

Sounds kind of pointless imo. I would rather them balance out the power cost to the point where we don't need to rely on power restoring skills.

Also, I apologize for going off-topic but why do hunter tomes cap off at -12% power cost?
The 'special' tome with the essence slot is how the hunter tomes should look like in the first place imho.

[Daniyel]

HELLO??!?! how has nobody mentioned this?

[Rino90]

Why add so much physical mitigation to new tanky items? It is no longer possible to get rid of the physical mitigation overcap with any replacements for virtues, traceries or essences

[Elmagor]

HELLO??!?! how has nobody mentioned this?

They say we will get new recipes with u35, but still nothing new with this (probally last) testing

[Plidak]

readed it wrong

[zipfile]

I would love for you to upload gameplay one day, Pavlin, I miss your Storvagun Brawler tanking.

[Plidak]

I would love for you to upload gameplay one day, Pavlin, I miss your Storvagun Brawler tanking.

In case you are sarcastic ...
Keep your trolling for yourself. All flaws i pointed in that video were adressed and fived in following patch notes.
Do you rly try to sad me, just because i was one of the first who try make freshly released/ broken class works ?
You may fall to realise but if there are no ppl like me, to be vocal, you will have what we had with beor
A class forgothen even from devs over 4 years, and used only in moors and in some aoe fights.
If you want to adress me personaly use pm option. Otherwise coment about the patch.

Check your messages*

[PreemptiveRegret]

Resounding Challenge while 'In the Fray' is now correctly a non-targeted AoE centered on yourself, hitting up to 10 targets.

Why is it so hard to Just fix Brink of Victory? Building RC to replace the way people pulled with BoV is much less convenient.

[Plidak]

Why is it so hard to Just fix Brink of Victory? Building RC to replace the way people pulled with BoV is much less convenient.

Because changes are made by ppl who never played the class and who watch other ppl playing. All changes are based on one raid grp of prmade ppl using voice chat and doing 2y old raid. What works in such grps have nothing to do with real game play on live servers. I want to see how the heck warden gona pull attention from adds who spawn a far. Javelins removed. RC now is around the player. We need to switch stances then build ? Good luck with this lag and GCD. Or the new ranged DC will help us ? It go off even if target is 100y away. It fires even if you have no target... Also 10y range for ranged taunt skill ? Didnt you learn your lesson with the brawler guys ? Wht do same mistake and we need to wait monthhs before fix ?
Again. Devs should start test things by themself and not base the entire game on 15 players experience. Sharing same discord, joining their raids even as observers, and kinda ignoring every feedback outside theirs shouldnt happen. Man....
Imo this will be the last beta, and then it goes live. Hope we wont get more nerfs and silly changes.
So far is acceptable

[Pewpewmidget]

Because changes are made by ppl who never played the class and who watch other ppl playing. All changes are based on one raid grp of prmade ppl using voice chat and doing 2y old raid. What works in such grps have nothing to do with real game play on live servers. I want to see how the heck warden gona pull attention from adds who spawn a far. Javelins removed. RC now is around the player. We need to switch stances then build ? Good luck with this lag and GCD. Or the new ranged DC will help us ? It go off even if target is 100y away. It fires even if you have no target... Also 10y range for ranged taunt skill ? Didnt you learn your lesson with the brawler guys ? Wht do same mistake and we need to wait monthhs before fix ?
Again. Devs should start test things by themself and not base the entire game on 15 players experience. Sharing same discord, joining their raids even as observers, and kinda ignoring every feedback outside theirs shouldnt happen. Man....
Imo this will be the last beta, and then it goes live. Hope we wont get more nerfs and silly changes.
So far is acceptable

I actually agree with PIZDQK on this one.
SSG does seem to pay more attention to the competent players who routinely knock out higher tier raids rather than the average players who struggle to finish t2 or t3.
Ghyn's raid group knew what they were doing and had far more experience with what they're doing than most of the playerbase. They weren't nobodies.

Balancing the game based on how easy you've seen the more experienced players have it is not a wise judgement in your end.

[Nouri]

If there is an RK dev? If so, I'd like to put forward a few questions.

1) First, why are there far more changes for RKs than for any other class? At my last count, RKs had 48 changes. The next closest class had 38 changes. Were RKs perceived to be an OP class? Were RKs perceived to be an under-powered class? What goals or intentions drove these many changes? Really, why so many changes for RKs than for any other class?

2) The proposed changes to RK.... This update adds a lot of DPS potential for RKs, but it does so at a very steep cost to their survivability! I say 'potential' because I don't think most RKs will survive long enough to use it in the Moors. Maybe devs spent a lot of time parsing lightening damage on dummies, but you cant's DPS when you're dead.

3) Looks like 1v1s are down to 30 - 40 seconds now. I hear...'well, you should have time to execute all of your skills at least once during that time' <-- Say what?!?!? How about if you consider the fact that that can make reavers almost completely immune to CC in a 30 second fight?

P.S. I don't think you realize how much you nerfed RK survivability with changes to C&S. That was the only thing RKs had left to extend fight beyond 30 after changes to SM.

[Syrian-1]

SSG,

Do you have a status with any crafting updates? It would also be nice to craft essences above the current Flickering level. We are very late at this level cap to not have a basic recipe to craft above a Tier 2 essence. Please adjust so that we can make Tier 3 and Tier 4 essences.

Thanks,

Syrian

[CatOfTheRings]

Were there any changes made to the launcher? I saw something that looked subtly different between the current live launcher and the Bullroarer launcher today.

[SSG_Orion]

SSG,

Do you have a status with any crafting updates? It would also be nice to craft essences above the current Flickering level. We are very late at this level cap to not have a basic recipe to craft above a Tier 2 essence. Please adjust so that we can make Tier 3 and Tier 4 essences.

Thanks,

Syrian

Most of the work on the crafting update is on the back end as we prepare for more of the deep changes we are planning. There are some new recipes coming to the game in U35. If you are looking for more information have a look here.

[Plidak]

I just wonder, why make powerdrain/the cost of skills so high and then add an ability to restore power to basically every class?

Because server run too smooth. More skills are needed, more keys to press, more stres.

[Technician46]

So the the solution to bad players badly managing power is to remove the option and functionality entirely. If it wasn't just bad players you'd adjust the power values instead.

It makes you wonder why they are bringing back power mechanics at all. Why stop at this Immediate? Just remove all skills while you're at it, no power issues then.

The design philosophy in the recent wave of "balance" in Lotro is genuinely comical. I mean, why not deeply alienate players for the sake of contrived nonsense through the removal of longstanding iconic class functionality? After all...so many people play this game. It's not like I or others have played Minstrel for almost 15 years and this kind of change fundamentally pisses people off. The clear and even intuitive and instinctive unpopularity of a change doesn't mean anything.

The best part is the rationalization given though. If I was annoyed by the CoS before now I really hate it. Why don't you just come out and say we're removing all Immediates eventually so here's a mess to deal with as we build up to it? At least that wouldn't contradict itself in the same breath, unlike giving us power management back while simultaneously removing the decision making involved in said management.

This couldn't of been said any better....... sigh.

[Nouri]

You just don't try to push thousands of new lines of code, where substantial integrations with multiple code lines and modules exists and extensive functionality changes are being made, to your production environment in one code migration. Even if the new code executes flawlessly, it changes the nature of the game in many ways at once. It would be nice to see SSG take a more measured a deliberative approach to changes in the future.

A great example of 'unanticipated consequences' is how the changes to NPC morale pools killed action on low-population servers. This was sad to see happen. No longer could a solo, on either side, take an OP. No longer could a solid group of 4 flip a keep. It was a long list of 'no longers' for players on low-pop servers. And now, instead of low-pop, they're zero-pop.

[Exceptional]

I actually agree with PIZDQK on this one.
SSG does seem to pay more attention to the competent players who routinely knock out higher tier raids rather than the average players who struggle to finish t2 or t3.
Ghyn's raid group knew what they were doing and had far more experience with what they're doing than most of the playerbase. They weren't nobodies.

Balancing the game based on how easy you've seen the more experienced players have it is not a wise judgement in your end.

I did not think this was true until I looked into it further. You are absolutely correct. This small group of raiders is having a ridiculously oversized role on directing this update including how warden plays to the detriment of the average Lord of the Rings Online player.

Why is it so hard to Just fix Brink of Victory? Building RC to replace the way people pulled with BoV is much less convenient.

I agree. It is frustrating how little attention the Brink of Victory Warden class feedback has been given. The alternative is not as accessible. Why try to reinvent the wheel when you know the original had the support of more players? As PIZDQK said above, it's because the changes are based on the feedback of a small group of raiders that don't represent the wider Lord of the Rings Online community or the average player of the warden class.

So the the solution to bad players badly managing power is to remove the option and functionality entirely. If it wasn't just bad players you'd adjust the power values instead.

It makes you wonder why they are bringing back power mechanics at all. Why stop at this Immediate? Just remove all skills while you're at it, no power issues then.

The design philosophy in the recent wave of "balance" in Lotro is genuinely comical. I mean, why not deeply alienate players for the sake of contrived nonsense through the removal of longstanding iconic class functionality? After all...so many people play this game. It's not like I or others have played Minstrel for almost 15 years and this kind of change fundamentally pisses people off. The clear and even intuitive and instinctive unpopularity of a change doesn't mean anything.

The best part is the rationalization given though. If I was annoyed by the CoS before now I really hate it. Why don't you just come out and say we're removing all Immediates eventually so here's a mess to deal with as we build up to it? At least that wouldn't contradict itself in the same breath, unlike giving us power management back while simultaneously removing the decision making involved in said management.

This is well stated and I agree.