Monster Play Changes in Bullroarer 3

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

The only additional comment I'll add here is that classes generally bring more to the table than just DoT vs non-DoT damage profiles. Spiders and LMs in particular have always had significant value in control & debuff utility, which is hard to quantify in a simple damage profile comparison. The very fact that Oiz is suggesting spider is currently too strong (along with red defilers, which are also DoT-primary) suggests you might be a little overzealous here in claiming the demise of every DoT-first class

I think this is slightly premature, but to echo Oiz, I am more than happy to hear from anyone else who was either watching or experiencing combat on Bullroarer.

Oiz is talking strictly about the 1v1 profile, which it seems yeah spider will retain its S-tier status in 1v1 due to its survival mechanics and mobility combined with decent damage against now-reduced selfhealing capabilities for a number of freep classes (he would know he is the best 1v1 spider in the game).


but for any kind of group v group, everything I mentioned is still true.

These other utilities you mention are generally weak in group v group compared to the ability to just kill faster. "you can't DPS/Heal if you're dead".

The time value of debuffs/cc is not strong enough to warrant bringing on board a class that effectively contributes nothing to the front-loading of damage. This is especially true when you take into account cures/CC immunities/breaks.

This isn't a "this class is 50% dps and 50% CC/debuffing" kind of deal, its a "this class is 0% dps and 50% cc/debuffing that may or may not have any meaningful effect" because the damage is so SLOW that it doesn't have time to kick in, and even if it does have time (pre-stacked on a target) it can be countered by healing effortlessly (typical HoT is stronger than a DoT, esp creep hot... msc AOE healing, etc).

[eliadon]

The rework to audacity involving incoming damage needed to happen and I'm happy this change has gone through. However, I am concerned with the way the audacity ranks have been implemented and what it entails for optimal builds, balance, and the player experience.

Normal audacity cap is 36
36 audacity grants 60% CC-reduction, 0.5x damage taken multmod, 1.45x outgoing damage multmod
27 audacity grants ~51,8% CC-reduction, 0.5x damage taken multmod, 1.4x outgoing damage multmod
26 audacity grants ~50% CC-reduction, but 1.25x damage taken multmod and a negative outgoing damage multmod (<1.0x), not sure exactly what the number was

With this distribution its clear the goal was to make the base vendor pvp gear less behind in performance compared to live. While a great goal, the execution has made the HH raid gear the most optimal gear choice for many classes. You are able to achieve 27 audacity while having the 4-piece set bonuses before considering tinctures.

Tinctures only further amplify this problem. Tinctures on LIVE enable bypassing the need of audacity gear allowing use of the necklace w/ class essence from BtS (a significant grind) or the thrang bell (seasonal item available a few weeks out of a year). Despite tinctures being removed, numerous players have them stockpiled tinctures by the thousands. Even without tinctures, the best builds for many classes involve the BtS cloak w/ essence (a significant grind) or the HH T4 raid cloak.

I hope this is an oversite that made it through. With the balance between freeps and creeps being brought closer and closer every update a massive discrepancy between accessibility still exists. The experience shouldn't be made even less accessible for freeps by again gating the best builds behind raid progression. I personally would love to see a STRICTER separation of pvp / pve gear than what we already have on live, not regression. Legendary Items and virtues already pose an enormous barrier before being able to begin pvp gear progression let alone skill progression that happens at the same time for a new pvp player. Further progression beyond LIs / virtues should be kept to pvp, not pve, and certainly not raiding.

These are my proposed short to mid-term changes that would create both a healthier separation from raiding / exclusive time-limited items and a more accessible experience for new and old players alike:

1. Tinctures should be disabled until they are reworked into an entirely different item as those who stockpiled will not being running out any time soon.
2. Audacity cap should be made mandatory for freeps in pvp in a way that cannot be circumvented.
3. The basic vendor pvp gear should provide enough audacity to reach the cap leaving the gear progression to stats only.
4. Cloaks (that already exist only situationally as the best choice), class items, bows, off-hands, etc (that dont exist yet) should be introduced to the moors as the most desirable (mandatory) choice for pvp. This could be another form of stat progression beyond jewelry/armor.

[hanswurst13]

i didnt see many freps dieing in 1v1 on Br only the clickers and rly bad players died in 1v1 to a creep

now this bad players come here and cry for a buff witch they allready got in dmg a massive buff actually seen from creep side
since there are almost no creeps left on Br to get ez clapped.

its a farm fest allready.

btw all the creep lvl up passive skills are still all lvl 95 can you ajust them to lvl 140 ?

and dont even waste you time talking to this freeps they will write walls of text how bad power drain is, but no freep run out of power on BR while fighting

creeps are in the worst state since orion returend only buffs for freeps and soo many nerfs allready , still freeps complain


all servers dead no creeps at all but on en and ark, but this freeps still complain
is this normal?????


pls buff creeps and do not listen to easy modders who cant even play the game

when a freep knows how to play he wins any 1v1 vs creeps no problem

and why is only a rvr abel to 1v1 freeps and winning vs the super bad once and they still complain ###

a rvr can win a 1v1 nerf all creeps or i and my kin boycot the game



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[Aeviternus]

i didnt see many freps dieing in 1v1 on Br only the clickers and rly bad players died in 1v1 to a creep

now this bad players come here and cry for a buff witch they allready got in dmg a massive buff actually seen from creep side
since there are almost no creeps left on Br to get ez clapped.

its a farm fest allready.

btw all the creep lvl up passive skills are still all lvl 95 can you ajust them to lvl 140 ?

and dont even waste you time talking to this freeps they will write walls of text how bad power drain is, but no freep run out of power on BR while fighting

creeps are in the worst state since orion returend only buffs for freeps and soo many nerfs allready , still freeps complain


all servers dead no creeps at all but on en and ark, but this freeps still complain
is this normal?????


pls buff creeps and do not listen to easy modders who cant even play the game

when a freep knows how to play he wins any 1v1 vs creeps no problem

and why is only a rvr abel to 1v1 freeps and winning vs the super bad once and they still complain ###

a rvr can win a 1v1 nerf all creeps or i and my kin boycot the game

Newsflash: nobody cares about 1v1 balance.

Freeps don't run out of power? How about when you put WL banner + Rabid Bite + spider drains? Did you test that?

At least your clear bias is evident from your post, so it won't be mistaken for genuine feedback.

[hanswurst13]

Newsflash: nobody cares about 1v1 balance.

Freeps don't run out of power? How about when you put WL banner + Rabid Bite + spider drains? Did you test that?

At least your clear bias is evident from your post, so it won't be mistaken for genuine feedback.

loololol first thing they did is to nerf defis flyes
no you complain that 3 creep classes togher can drain one freeps power ?!?!?!?!?!?!


### i see your from Evernight actually the worst freep players the game has seen, only zerg mob.
l2p kid


and a freep has sooo many pots and skills to regain power compared to any CREEP

### wirte a wall of text will make a better QQ impression

[Nouri]

I did not mean to suggest that any one skill is de facto equivalent to any other. Only that with a very short TTK (say 1-10 seconds) many players/classes are literally incapable of even pressing the skills they rely on to sustain and survive. If a 1v1 lasts 30 seconds, I assume both players are able to hit relevant cooldowns. For example, I'd expect a hunter who died in 30-40s did manage to press Press Onward and Blood Arrow at least once, potentially twice (for BA) and maybe even used some other moderate cooldowns like Cry of the Hunter or Bard's Arrow. Even if it didn't change the outcome, there's a significant difference between 'my skills were not enough to overcome my opponent's DPS/HPS' and 'the fight was over so quick I was unable to react.'

Time to 'use a skill' vs skill usefulness. With 1v1s lasting between 30 and 40 seconds, consider this. In a 1v1, my light armored RK against a reaver is probably going to be a lot closer to 30 seconds than 40 seconds, especially since RK self-heals are being nerfed in this update. I have plenty of CC that I can use in that period of time, but it's going to be pretty much useless. Let's say a reaver charges and catches my RK in 3 seconds.
~ 5 seconds of CC immunity remaining from Charge.
~ As soon as Charge is down, reaver brands for 5 more seconds of CC immunity.
~ Brand goes down, then 15 more seconds of CC immunity with Enhanced Resilience.
~ Resilience goes down, reaver hits a pot for 5 seconds of stun immunity.

Sure, I can use every CC skill I have in those 30 seconds, but I'll be lucky if a single one works.

P.S. As for this 'Concession & Rebuttal no longer reduces your incoming damage; it now gives a small Lightning Critical Chance bonus'. Whooopee, along with the nerf to Self-Motivation, you just nerfed nerfed RKs' two most important skills. You're making great progress in ensuring that RKs can no longer 1v1 in the Moors.

[CHEBURASHKA]

These are my proposed short to mid-term changes that would create both a healthier separation from raiding / exclusive time-limited items and a more accessible experience for new and old players alike:
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1. Tinctures should be disabled until they are reworked into an entirely different item as those who stockpiled will not being running out any time soon.
2. Audacity cap should be made mandatory for freeps in pvp in a way that cannot be circumvented.
3. The basic vendor pvp gear should provide enough audacity to reach the cap leaving the gear progression to stats only.
4. Cloaks (that already exist only situationally as the best choice), class items, bows, off-hands, etc (that dont exist yet) should be introduced to the moors as the most desirable (mandatory) choice for pvp. This could be another form of stat progression beyond jewelry/armor.

I agree 100%. We need these changes.

[Vilan]

Any plans on bringing back the power drain on LM's Power of Knowledge?

[Elmagor]

Any plans on bringing back the power drain on LM's Power of Knowledge?

They buff it on test server, if I remember correctly

[Vilan]

I mean the part where Power of Knowledge actually removes power from your target. It used to do that, now it just gives you power and does damage.

[Neinda]

Suggestion: Since freeps will be required to have pvp gear in the Moors now, please consider adding a wardrobe, armory, gear line or something where people can have regular and pvp gear slotted and just push a button to switch. Sort of like we do with skill lines. It would be helpful and would solve the problem of freeps getting to the Moors and finding out they have no gear on and are running around naked.

[CHEBURASHKA]

Warg underperforms (primarily in 'Shadow' stance) in group PvP. Below is the list of things which, in my opinion, should be improved in the future warg rework (if it ever happens).

Main issues regarding warg's usefulness in group PvP:

1)'Howl of Unnerving' 20% mit debuff
PROBLEM: bad skill design
a) skills that are so crucial to creep group burst can not be random (50% chance to apply)
b) resistance type of the mit debuff is 'Fear', 32% fear resist buff from 'Muster Courage' makes this debuff even more useless because it gets resisted too often
c) this skill tries to fulfil 2 incompatible functions: I. aoe fear that is used defensively (to stop freep dpsers) II. and mit debuff that is used offensively

GOOD SOLUTION:
- change application chance from 50% to 100% for both mit debuff and fear

PERFECT SOLUTION:
- remove mit debuff from 'Howl of Unnerving'
- change application chance from 50% to 100% for fear
- add a new skill:
a) it applies a SINGLE TARGET 20% mit debuff
b) 5s duration
c) 20s CD
d) resist type - either 'Disease', 'Poison' or 'Wound'
e) it has the same animation as 'Rabid Bite'/'Rend Flesh' (instead of 'Howl of Unnerving' animation)


2) 'Shadow' stance damage and 'Swipe'
PROBLEM: damage in 'Shadow' IS NOT HIGH ENOUGH (compared to other creep classes [while taking into account all other utility that they bring into the group]). 'Shadow' buffs damage of some SPECIFIC skills but ,FYI, 15% buff from 'Shadow' stance increases OVERALL dmg ONLY BY ~6.4% (regardless of your mastery or blessings' dmg buffs).

SOLUTION:
- add 'All damage skills bypass 5% mitigations' buff to 'Shadow' stance
- add a new corruption to 'Swipe' (when in 'Shadow' stance):
a) 'all damage skills bypass 3% mits'
b) 30s duration
c) can stack multiple times (like 'Corruption: Brutal' in 'Flayer')


3) 'Rend Flesh'
PROBLEM: 10% inc dmg debuff DOES NOT INCREASE INCOMING TACTICAL DAMAGE. Red defilers and spiders massively contribute to overall creep group dps now.

SOLUTION:
- add 10% inc tactical dmg to 'Rend Flesh'

Secondary issues regarding warg's usefulness in group PvP:

4) 'Frenzy'
PROBLEM: this skill is useless

SOLUTION:
- change the buff to 'All damage skills bypass 5% mits'
- reduce duration from 30s to 5s
- reduce CD from 40s to 20s


5) 'Rallying Howl'
PROBLEM: 'defeat response' mechanics does not allow warg to use this skill when it's actually needed but instead you can usually use it when you don't need a heal for your group members or yourself. This randomness should be gone. Also you don't get 'defeat response' that often in 6v6/12v12 fights because it takes time to burn through defensive CDs.

SOLUTION:
I suggest to completely rework this skill:
- you need 'Critical Response' instead of 'Defeat Response' to activate this skill
- instead of heals it should give buffs to your group and yourself
- buffs' duration -> 10s
- idk which buffs it should give so it's up to you
for example, it can give: +5% speed, +5% inc healing, +5% crit chance, +10% crit defence for 10s
- class trait 'Enchanced SKill: Rallying Howl' adds aoe healing to the skill (but warg does not get the healing only 5 members of your group do, otherwise it would be too op; or maybe the healing that warg gets can just be significantly lower than aoe healing to avoid making warg OP in 1v1s) and also maybe increases the potency of the buffs
- HoT duration (with class trait) goes down from 'X number of heals every 4s for 20s' to 'X number of heals every 2s for 10s'
- CD goes up from 15s to 30s
- I just wanna stress again that HEALING CAN NOT BE TOO HIGH FOR WARG, we don't need another GiV problem.


6) 'Tendon Shred'
Problem: CD is too high and stun duration is too short. Creeps are reliant on ground based effects (blight + warg puddle), warg needs a better way to lock freeps in a puddle. But even if it wasn't the case, 2s stun (5s stun goes down to 2s if freep has full audacity) on a 3 min CD is just ridiculous.

SOLUTION:
- reduce CD from 3min to 1min
- increase stun duration from 5s to 10s (10s stun on a freep with full audacity lasts for 4s, so instead of a 2s stun wargs gets a 4s stun)

[Nouri]

Warg underperforms (primarily in 'Shadow' stance) in group PvP. Below is the list of things which, in my opinion, should be improved in the future warg rework (if it ever happens).

)

/Signed Not group related, but...Shadow wargs are some of the coolest 1v1s in the game when they are competitive. But they really could use some buffs.

[Nouri]

Oh my goodness...thank you SSG. I can't tell you how happy I was when I read this. That is a really big help for the RK class. Thank you.
* 'Charged' effect no longer interacts with Sustaining Bolt. It now reduces your attack duration and tiers up an Incoming Damage reduction effect. The chance to proc the effect has been increased from 10% to 15%.