Discussion about Future Crafting Updates

[MikeSol999]

You would keep what you have levelled up, already. You could remove a profession, and train a new one - there would likely not be a direct transfer of your previously leveled profession to the newly trained profession.

I am not expecting any kind of transfer. I just want to remove one of my professions and start a new one. Please make sure this is an option when you remove the vocation system. It would completely suck if old players were stuck with a profession they do not want while new players get to choose freely.

[DroboTheDwarf]

In regards to crafting call me simplistic but all I want is a track all button for those who can hunt for more then one thing, such as explorers wood/ore, etc. That is one QoL enhancement that would be great. I look forward to all the other things talked about as well.

[SophieTheEnchantress]

To establish my bona fides, I have 12 Level 140 characters and 1 level 129 character. With the exception of Gundabad prospector, all crafting professions are at maximum. With one exception, all associated guilds are at maximum. In all cases, I collect every recipe available as I quest through each region. I cannot recall the last time I used any of these recipes. I collect them for giggles. I am behind on regions but continue to close the gap.

Professions: Since my characters are already fully committed to the old system, having amassed an immense number of recipes, I cannot take advantage of any new mix and match system because it would result in an enormous loss of effort. I can take advantage of a fourth profession. It will require hundreds of hours of play time to add a fourth profession to each of my characters--collecting materials, crafting for experience, making and using guild reputation, and collecting recipes. I will need to carve this time away from missions and questing over a protracted period of time. This is not a complaint. I do not mind diverting the time, but I want to make clear it will happen.

Crafting Guilds: Adding farmer, forester, and prospector guilds will cost me over a hundred hours of play time redirected from missions and questing. Again, this is not a complaint, just an observation.

Crafting Relevance: In my opinion, you need to ask a basic question: Who is crafting for? If crafting is for group players, they want crafting to provide quick and easy items that make dungeons easier. They want to be running dungeons, not crafting. If crafting is for solo players, they want crafting to provide equipment (and perhaps products to sell). Solo characters are willing to pay a reasonable crafting time cost for that better equipment (and those products).

All players want better equipment because it reduces time burden on activities to make characters more powerful. When you put all equipment in dungeons, you effectively place a massive time tax on solo players because it now takes them much longer to accomplish anything that involves combat versus a group player. If you want all players to have roughly equal time burden, you will need to construct completely different equipment paths for group and solo players. When you developed Delvings, you built in a time cost making them roughly equivalent to mid tier group content. If you want to give solo players good equipment through crafting, you will need to build crafting around a similar time cost analysis.

No solo player wants a bunch of recipes that only work with stuff from dungeons because they will never get to execute those recipes. Group players would rather get drops from dungeons instead of fiddling with crafting. This is like introverts versus extroverts. They are completely different kinds of people with completely different personalities and needs. If you want to please both, you need to build activities aimed at both, and both types of person will dislike activities designed for the other type of person.

(A few group players also enjoy crafting and would like to leverage both systems but I submit a priori that such people are exceptions to a general rule.)

Crafting and Housing: I am intrigued but need more information to offer a useful opinion. Please remember that housing hooks are a very scarce commodity, so while new housing items are great, the vast majority never get used on a per player basis.

Events: What a wonderful idea. The person who thought that up must be very beautiful and wise and have a lovely singing voice.

In Closing: You are walking a very difficult path, Mister Orion, and I sincerely wish you much luck. Be wary of over simplification to appease the disinterested. That path closes down may others.

Edit: I see a lot of posts in this thread by people who simultaneously want crafting to take a lot less time and yet offer much better items. You may need to explain to them that time to acquire an item needs to roughly match for different activities, otherwise, everyone is pulled in one direction and unhappiness results.

[snommis]

Edit: I see a lot of posts in this thread by people who simultaneously want crafting to take a lot less time and yet offer much better items. You may need to explain to them that time to acquire an item needs to roughly match for different activities, otherwise, everyone is pulled in one direction and unhappiness results.

I want to see a crafting system that offers an expansive amount of depth in what you can do and with varying degrees of difficulty and time allocation. Items that have minimal input of units and time that are slightly valuable and as you dive deep you can get much rarer and unique items that can be crafted. It is possible to have a system in place that offers crafting based on whether you want minimal effort OR instance/raid items for completion OR taking hours to work on items for one recipe that's extraordinary and unique. They can all be incorporated into the existing system. For example:

level 130-140 crafting tier (Gundabad) metalsmith:

character level 131 'Helmet of Matturgard's Entry' with class variants
resources required: 4 ingots of gundabad ore
stats are equivalent to landscape level 131 dropped gear (yellow)
level 135 crafting item unlocked upon completion

character level 135 'Gundabad Smithed-Helm' with class variants
resources required: 30 ingots of gundabad ore, 3 sunstone shards
stats are the item in game that is currently a level 140 build, but scaled down to level 135 (purple)
level 139 item unlocked upon completion

character level 139 'Gundabad expert's helm' with class variants
resources required: 50 ingots of gundabad ore, 5 sunstone shards, 50 gundabad mountain marks
stats are equivalent to lockbox teal gear at level 139 (teal)
level 140 recipe item AWARDED upon completion and is unique to class that was crafted (defensive/offensive/healing)

character level 140 'Gundabad Mastersmith Helm' (class specific: defensive/offensive/healing)
resources required: 250 ingots of gundabad ore, 25 sunstone shards, 250 Gundabad mountain marks, 10 instance/raid coins (dropped 1 per completion)
stats are equivalent to raid level teal armour WITHOUT set benefits (gold)
level 140 recipe item AWARDED upon completion, is unique to class that was crafted, and is bound to account upon acquire

character level 140 'Gundabad Showoff Helm' (class specific)
resources required: 1 Gundabad Mastersmith Helm (trade in), 10 brushed Gundabad leather, 10 polished sunstone, 10 universal solvent, 10 gundabad mountain marks, 10 instance/raid coins, 1000 marks, 250 medallions, 5 seals
stats are quivalent to raid level teal armour WITH unique set bonuses with a UNIQUE SLOT in addition to the raid quantity slots (mithril)
bound to character upon acquire

unique slot would be for essences that are made by crafters that are unique to profession and are not a combat based stat, but a cosmetic stat, similar to weapon auras, allowing further customization of look.

This would eliminate the proficient and mastery status of crafting, but assumes you would have to be to get to the highest tiers anyways, so the title could be awarded still: proficient at completing crafting a 139 teal item and mastery at completing crafting a 140 gold item. maybe a new title comes with completing one show-off recipe: Artisanal
And one for completing the entire 130-140 crafting tier: Elder of Gundabad Armoursmithing

[Andaeil]

There are two things I've really been hoping for:

1) Basic recipes in the tiers after Anorien. It's what makes the gear grind so annoying later on because there are massive jumps in stats and you've got to deal with it because you aren't going to be able to craft anything until you get done with the zone and have max rep - and even then they require shards. Please give us the base-tier armor, weapons, jewelry and the like back.

2) Decorative, cosmetic, housing, and misc. fluff. I miss being able to craft the different beers with my Cook because they just stop after a while. And there's a ton of existing furniture that could be adapted for players to craft.

[IanMacLyr]

Two thoughts:

- RE: Guild Rep taking a long time... is it too simplistic to suggest simply upping the denomination of the tokens one can earn from missions? Seems like that would deal with the issue with a minimum of adjustment to the game & allow devs more time for more complicated matters

- RE: Crafting relevance... as a guilded crafter, my expertise meets the high & demanding standards of the guild, so it stands to reason that I should be able to tweak quest or even instance armor or weapons to boost performance. Perhaps a guild recipe that bumps an item by some nominal amount of iLvl (less than the diff between, for example, T1 & T2... or the diff between quest items and crafted). And only one improvement per item, so we ensure that there is still always a benefit to running higher tiers... but still enabling a greater population of players who are 'geared enough' to run instances.

Thanks!

[auximenes]

Basic recipes in the tiers after Anorien. It's what makes the gear grind so annoying later on because there are massive jumps in stats and you've got to deal with it because you aren't going to be able to craft anything until you get done with the zone and have max rep - and even then they require shards. Please give us the base-tier armor, weapons, jewelry and the like back.

/signed 100x

[Thurallor]

I like the concept of the "repair anvil" that Weaponsmiths can make/deploy and everyone can use for 5 minutes. I would like to see similar items added for other professions. I think it's a fun social aspect of the game. The recipes could be money-makers if sold for LP or MC; the ability to help one's friends has a lot of value to people.

Profession	Deployable item 1	Deployable item 2
Weaponsmith	Repair anvil	Superior repair anvil
Metalsmith	Crucible* (portable Forge)	Teddy bear (portable Training dummy)
Jeweller	Treasure dig site	Lectern (portable Auctioneer)
Farmer	Manure pile (portable Farmland)	Strongbox (portable Vaultkeeper)
Cook	Cauldron* (portable Oven)	Chuckwagon (portable Supplier/Provisioner)
Tailor	Ingredient crate	(your idea here!)
Scholar	Reading candle (portable Study)	Carrier pigeon (portable Mailbox)
Woodworker	Toolbox (portable Workbench)	Camp stool (portable Barber)
Forester	summon Courier (portable access to housing storage)	summon Wenda Cranesbill's assistant

* requires the "Campfire" effect to be present before it can be deployed

Another minor thing: I don't like the fact that beyond a certain level, scrolls and scroll cases no longer exist in the game. I like collecting them, buying, selling, and trading them. Auto-bestowal of recipes is boring and unimmersive, IMO.

[CaerArianrhod]

Delving gear is still going to fill the Raid Tier gear. The goal with Delving gear is that it is updated when the majority of the servers move toward T3 Raids.

Would you be so kind to provide some information about what SSG means with "majority of the servers" and also statistics about how many players finished Abnankara T3?
I'm just curious because usually "the majority" means a number over 50%. But currently not even 10% of the players have a T3 raid completion.

[Walterdagreat]

love the idea of adding new recipes there is a large gap from lvl 50 to lvl 131 in fish recipes... maybe change some the non-edible fish to help fill the gap... maybe add some ocean type fish you catch in belfalas and other ocean areas.... and possibly e, make fishing a crafting profession and earn real exp for fishing.... just a few thoughts thanks for the chance to be heard and good hunting/fishing to all... sincerely your Gladdenite neighbor Wato da great!!!!!

[Seschat]

At the outset of the game, we wanted the crafting system to serve manifold purposes. Vocations were designed with these factors in mind: socialization, game economy, and a unique way to highlight crafting.

What game economy? Despite what we're told in the classic tutorial ("A few pieces of gear will be bound to character."), nearly every piece of kit in this game is Account Bound, with the bulk Character Bound. Add to that the ludicrously short posting times allowed in the Auction House, and I continue to be surprised that players bother to sell ANYTHING to one another.

Let's contrast that to my first MMO, FF XI: 14 day auction house placement, little to negligible character binding, the bulk of the gear used in the game player made, and a functioning auction house history. Rather than seeing what the exact price was on a piece, you saw what the last 10 sold for, and how many of that item were up.

In fairness, I will admit there was a Real Money Trading issue to be dealt with that we don't see in LOTRO, but that will happen anywhere that in-game currency has an actual value in game play. In contrast, I haven't really cared that much about my gold balance since not long after Mordor was released, and my main characters got their First Age Legendaries. I suspect the more hard-core raiders spend some getting cash top-tier essences, but even that is primarily tied to getting the right raid drops these days, not shopping for the right parts. Add to that the fact there's very little in the way of meaningful cash sinks (NPC purchasable items), even a "filthy casual" like myself easily stockpiles four digits in golds quickly after the Lone Lands.

[FLH1038]

I like the idea.
Solo players are mostly punished as we choose not to participate in 6-12-24 person raids. To some, it just isn't enjoyable.
Lot's of cherry picking by the leaders, in order to select the "best" equipped players, and leaving the average players behind.
Then there are times when some want to run harder content, but are unable to as not equipped good enough.
I worked hard to get all my crafting skills to stay current.
But Like now, the best I can craft is 460 purple gear.
Just don't make it too grindy. I have 7 140s, 4 86s, 3 > 130. A couple lower.
I always keep my toons at least at level current with the areas they are in so I can collect resources. The carryalls help in the area.

Maybe think of a resource exchange, like trade earlier resources for the new ones?
Give us some better crafting recipes that don't end game content completion. Like I am grinding dailies just to trade for level 140 teal at Annak
But am about out of ithilharn shards, add them to the purchase barter in the skirmish camps, and dwarrowgleam-shard also.
But when do go into a small group and the Hunter is scoring 1.5 million damage, and my decent non raid gear may hit 700k sometimes.
I'll never get selected to a large group. A lot of people simply don't have the time to commit also.
My 0.02 cents
Take Care

A 12.5 VIP

[pippinmctaggart]

As long as the recipes and/or ingredients are not limited to those who do the "big" raids and skirmishes. That makes it VERY hard for people who play solo to be able to craft. And it is not easy to get in the raids. Casual players or people who play solo a alot cannot always get into a group to play. I know people will say "oh get better" or "oh just join someone" but if someone has not done it before there are very few I have seen who are willing to help and instead just get nasty when someone asks for help.

THIS. I used to play with a small group of friends at first, but I lost them all to real life or other games, so now I solo everything. Having no experience with raids, I don't want to group with a bunch of excellent players and either let them all down or be abused when I don't know what I'm doing. So as a solo player, a way to advance my crafting (or to collect required recipes, mats and ingredients, without needing to raid) is a must.

I also agree with a previous comment about inventory space. The current system is DIRE, and when you're trying to collect ingredients for crafting, it requires a lot of shuffling between alts and storage and is a royal pain.

I do like the idea of crafting events or quests within the festivals, but only if lag issues are sorted.

[LadySelene]

As for crafting tools, I see those options:

1. Get rid of tools entirely, remove the existing universal toolkit. Crafting time/crit depends on level/crafting level, those who equipped their low-level crafting alts with store-bought toolkits are unhappy.

2. Change all tools to a kind of universal toolkits, which depend on level (same as the current crafting tools). Store toolkit stays as is - BtA and even on low level giving +20% crit chance, etc etc.

3. Split all existing bound-to-char toolkits into three separate tools and slot them into the crafting panel instead of character panel. Keep the slot in the character panel to use the store toolkit. Metalsmiths will craft a tool for a unique profession, which crafters can buy and slot in the 4th panel.

4. Craft 7*6*5*4 = 840 variations of toolkits... well... that's not really an option, yeah?
(no, that would be even more, as there'd be more than 7 options for each tab... doesn't matter. Unless the crafter can somehow select what to add to an already crafted toolkit - 1) select basic prospecting, 2) add tinker, 3) add scholar, 4) add metalsmith - but why bother to implement a complicated UI, while we're begging SSG to rename carry-alls and to change the reward track UI to be more player-friendly?)

Looks like the option 2 is the least headache, both for the players and for the team to convert the existing stuff by running a DB script.

As for guild rep - how fast would you level a crafting guild with 10k guild rep tokens from mission wrappers, without executing a single crafting recipe?

PS.
Dear SSG, when you have a +25% crafting XP weekend, can you please make the buff work for Prospector/Forester as well? I don't say "farmer", for obvious reasons (and also because you only need gold to level all the way to Gundabad).

[TheREALify]

What I'd like to see from a "crafting update":

A return to what once was. I'd like to see every crafting tier populated with auto-bestowed, basic, complete sets of recipes. The gear from these needs to act as an on-ramp to the content associated with the level range of the recipe. The goal of this gear would be to ensure success (or a fighting chance) on landscape, not group content. Furthermore, the gear should have stats instead of slots, players need an alternative to the essence system. Or consider un-linking essence crafting from the store bought Universal Solvent. I don't consider store-based crafting a legitimate option. Nor do I consider adding items with a drop-rate of less than 1 percent as a legitimate means of acquisition. Crafting should be done with things I find in the open world. Sure, some recipes should require a trinket or doo-dad found only in group content, but not every stinkin' recipe! Similarly, some recipes should be hidden behind reputation grinds, but not every stinkin' recipe!! And the recipes should require a *reasonable* amount of resources. 50 ingots for a belt buckle is just absurd. It's so ridiculous as to feel intentionally mean-spirited,punitive and insulting. Cut me some slack, help a crafter out. I'm not asking for much - it doesn't have to be *good* gear - just something. Something that will allow a poorly outfitted character (like mine) to compete in a new zone.

Another thing I'd like to see is weapons. Weapons with stats, not stained glass. Just a regular, non-Legendary weapon that has stats sufficient to be competitive on the landscape in the level range associated with the crafting tier. Let your weaponsmiths and woodworkers do their job! Not every weapon has to be a Legendary Item, does it?

I just want to see weapons and armor that don't use essences or traceries. Just gear with stats. Basic stuff. Sunday drive stuff.

What I expect to see from this "crafting update":

Aggressive Monetization.

This will sound cynical, but I'm cynical for a reason. There was never anything fundamentally broken about the crafting system. The problem the crafting system suffered from was neglect. I don't know why the neglect started but I always felt the change in business model coupled with a subsequent push to sell lock-box keys justified the neglect and only served to reinforce it. I think another contributing factor to the long-term neglect of the crafting system is that you couldn't figure out a way to monetize it. And, moreover, you couldn't figure out a way to monetize that *wouldn't* be met with open hostility from the player-base. So, you just let it rot.

And now you come to us saying you want to make it all better. Well, I don't believe you. What I'm afraid of is that you think you've figured out a good way to monetize the crafting system. And after all these years of crippled crafting, we'll be happy with anything you give us - instead of being outraged that a core game system has been shifted to the store.

I expect the update will involve recipes that include item(s) predominately found in group content but also available in the store for a small fee. Maybe, similar to a Universal Solvent type item. The item will be available on the store in gracious deference to the poor, casual player. Meanwhile, threads about the feeble drop rate of the new item in group content will go ignored.

I understand though, I really do. You guys are running a business. If you don't make money, the lights go out and that's that. It's cool, I get that. But that's also why I doubt your intentions with this announcement. And it's why I think there's no system you won't take away and sell back to us in the name of profits.

I don't mean this as an insult or anything personally against anyone there. It's a general criticism. At the end of the day, you're a business. You don't make money by giving me the crafting system I want, you make money by selling things. That's just the way the business model works. But it's also why all of your silver linings have dark clouds behind them.

Hey, I told you it was going to sound cynical. But I want to close with a note of hope.

The U-turn:

I debated with myself for a long time about submitting something to this thread. This is actually the third draft of this post and, so far, the least acerbic of them all. I deleted the first two drafts because I convinced myself it doesn't matter - my input won't make a difference. Any time I invest, the time I spend pouring out my heart will be wasted. Why bother?

And yet, here I am, bothering. Because some part of me still believes in you. The curmudgeon in me says you won't do it, but the dreamer knows you can. I remember when I first fell in love with this game. It felt like you'd made the game just for me. I miss that game. Curmudgeon me wrote that game off years ago - it's gone forever, just a memory. Dreamer me lurks the forums every day in the hope it's come back.

Please, by all that is Sacred, prove curmudgeon me wrong! I mean that sincerely and genuinely.

I expect someday I'll come back to this post and reply with "Called it."

But I would honestly, sincerely, really-a-whole-bunch love it if you took that opportunity away from me. Go on, make me eat crow!

I know you can do it! Just keep your eye on the ball and give 'em hell! Now, get in there and make me proud!

[Thurallor]

I like the concept of the "repair anvil" that Weaponsmiths can make/deploy and everyone can use for 5 minutes. I would like to see similar items added for other professions. I think it's a fun social aspect of the game. The recipes could be money-makers if sold for LP or MC; the ability to help one's friends has a lot of value to people.

Profession	Deployable item 1	Deployable item 2
Weaponsmith	Repair anvil	Superior repair anvil
Metalsmith	Crucible* (portable Forge)	Teddy bear (portable Training dummy)
Jeweller	Treasure dig site	Lectern (portable Auctioneer)
Farmer	Manure pile (portable Farmland)	Strongbox (portable Vaultkeeper)
Cook	Cauldron* (portable Oven)	Chuckwagon (portable Supplier/Provisioner)
Tailor	Ingredient crate	(your idea here!)
Scholar	Reading candle (portable Study)	Carrier pigeon (portable Mailbox)
Woodworker	Toolbox (portable Workbench)	Camp stool (portable Barber)
Forester	summon Courier (portable access to housing storage)	summon Wenda Cranesbill's assistant

* requires the "Campfire" effect to be present before it can be deployed

Another minor thing: I don't like the fact that beyond a certain level, scrolls and scroll cases no longer exist in the game. I like collecting them, buying, selling, and trading them. Auto-bestowal of recipes is boring and unimmersive, IMO.

Preemptively responding to objections from devs:

• "It's too hard / we don't have the man-hours available." The template already exists in the game in the form of the Repair anvil. Copy and paste. Monkey see, monkey do. Probably the biggest part of it would be creating the 3d models, but thereagain, most of this stuff already exists and could be copied.
• "It would encourage/facilitate griefing." Aside from the fact that being able to place a large manure pile in front of someone to express disapproval is hilarious... these items only last for 5 minutes and are on a 1-day cooldown; the recipes could be high-level, capstone recipes. There are much easier ways to grief someone (e.g. using emotes) for the dedicated griefer.
• "It would affect the game economy or cannibalize VIP subscriptions." The limited availability (5m duration, 22-hr cooldown, and you have to have someone with the right crafting profession) makes these items a poor substitute for VIP benefits.

[Boinli]

As always Orion, you’ve listed some absolutely excellent changes here. I appreciate your willingness to tackle head on some of LOTRO’s systems which have long been in need of TLC.

I have to echo the thoughts of others and say that the move to break vocations into professions is a really good one and I’m fully in favour of adding a fourth profession to the mix (however that ends up being obtained). These are both decisions that would keep LOTRO’s crafting system apace with the “freer” crafting permitted in games like FFXIV. Furthermore, the emphasis on making crafting relevant is a good one: crafted gear functions nicely as gear that will prepare people for instances. Events also seem like a great addition that will make Middle-earth feel “alive”. Hopefully, crafting events can offer some neat rewards (be they useful crafting items or profession-specific cosmetic items (e.g., a smith’s smock as a reward for the weaponsmithing event; a miter for the scholar event).

That said, the one thing I find concerning about the original post is this statement: “We want to take a very “do no harm” style of approach to this update.” I was hoping that, with this update, the systems team would be willing to do some “harm” to LOTRO’s crafting system–and by “harm”, I mean, I hoped that they would be ambitious and shake up an outdated system (in much the same way as Orion has done with PvMP). In my opinion, while crafting in LOTRO gets some things right (at early levels, for example, crafted gear feels powerful), it also gets a lot wrong: not only has crafting become irrelevant in recent years (which Orion is clearly looking to correct), but the actual gameplay of crafting in LOTRO is boring and repetitive, and it is these aspects which I don’t see Orion’s post addressing. To clarify what I mean, LOTRO’s crafting is boring insofar as, to quote bohbashum, “[i]ts just a menu and an induction.” Obviously, it’s unlikely that the team can change this core component of LOTRO’s crafting (entirely or quickly), but they can, I think, change the elements that surround it by making crafting more than the product of hitting up the same spots for the same nodes; more than crafting in the same geographic spaces; more than making the same non-rewarding pieces of gear; and more than hitting up the same crafting instances.

I think some of this can be allayed by introducing elements of exploration and what I call “craft fantasy” into LOTRO’s crafting.

By craft fantasy, I mean that just as each class fulfills a class fantasy–you feel like a musician when you play a minstrel; you feel like a berserker when you play a champion–crafting should invoke a similar fantasy. “The Lord of the Rings” is a text centrally based on the problem of craft: it is Celebrimbor’s forging of the Rings and Sauron’s subsequent creation of the One Ring that provide foundations of this story. Likewise, there are other prominent crafters like Fëanor, Telchar, and Narvi that have important–and even pivotal roles–in the history of Arda. LOTRO should lean into the IP’s association with craft by emphasizing a craft fantasy–this can be achieved in a few ways:

• Allow crafters to make in-demand and consequential items. Yes, this means giving crafters a place in gear progression by allowing them to, as Orion, suggested, craft gear that helps fill a gap between quest gear and low instance gear; but crafters should also be needed outside of this, so they can act as more than just a stepping stone in the early weeks of an expansion. No, crafters should not be able to make gold, raid-tier equivalent gear, but they should be able to craft important items that are needed across the lifetime of an expansion, such as (and in particular) traceries, as Zipfile mentioned at the beginning of this thread. It’s no question to me that crafters should be able to make, at the very least, purple let alone yellow traceries (as they’ve been allowed to do since level 100 for essences), but they should also–with the right, rare materials–be allowed to craft teal and gold traceries too. I understand that we have craftable Heraldries and Words of Craft at endgame, but we should not be limited to these–we should be able to craft all kinds of traceries at all kinds of level bands. Making traceries fulfills a craft fantasy insofar as it keeps crafters relevant (they’ll always be in demand, what with so many alts in this game); it also allows players to feel legendary since they’re crafting extremely important items in the logic of LOTRO’s game system. I would like it if there were other items like traceries that could fulfill this fantasy, but at present I am not sure what meaningful or unique items aren’t already provided by the game via other venues: maybe early PvP gear, slightly better than the Rank 1 gear, so Freeps can more easily enter the fray? The fulfillment of a craft fantasy, as I’ve suggested here, entails creating unique and meaningful items, but this is hard in a system that doesn’t allow you to contribute towards the current legendary item system and constantly encourages you to make, effectively, the same thing you were making at level 100 at level 140 with stats modified. Allowing us to craft traceries and create other, new powerful items would alleviate this.
• Above all, though, a lot of what I call craft fantasy can be fulfilled through fluff. Give us updated cosmetic outfits associated with our profession, as I suggested above; give us cosmetic tools (silver or mithril hammers?); give us crafting emotes (idle forging, tinkering, and research animations?). And give us also the ability to create items unique to Middle-earth: lembas bread, for example, languishes in this game as a level 40 crafted food, and miruvor as a level 50 barter item. Endgame, high-tier recipes should utilize the flavour of LOTRO’s Middle-earth as these recipes once did: the new teal cooked food (whose effects persist through death) should absolutely have been a kind of lembas, the fabled waybread of the Elves. Maybe a similar treatment could be offered for healing and power pots, wherein we are given a teal variant of these (with very marginally increased stats) labeled miruvor. Adding flavour to LOTRO’s crafted items in this vein (even if it’s as simple as changing the name of an item) reminds players that they are, in fact, “in” Middle-earth, which of course is one of LOTRO’s great appeals! You should play into this and allow crafters to feel like the items they craft are different from those they can make in any other game.
• Another suggestion to fulfill this craft fantasy, which is linked to what I will say below on exploration, is to encourage us to craft in iconic locations. Narsil wasn’t forged by the West Bree gate; the Three Rings weren’t crafted in the Three-Farrow Hall. While I don’t think we need to limit where one should craft (you can get superior crafting stations nearly anywhere now for a reason), it would be cool if certain locations were incentivized. This could be done via events–try not to host these in locations where people already craft (i.e. Bree); send people to the forges of Rivendell or Erebor with a simple port–or by simply making sure that crafting stations are more ubiquitous and accessible (the only forge in Erebor for example is a sad, out-of-the-way one tucked into a shabby tavern… that’s unacceptable for Dwarves!), or special instances (maybe, in a given crafting instance, we need to craft a jewel in the ring forges of Mirobel). But, I think this could be best achieved by moving crafting guild halls to more relevant and interesting locations: perhaps we could move the Woodworker’s Guild to the Vales; the Metalsmith’s Guild to Erebor, etc. Of course, moving some of these locations to high-level zones would mean that players would need to be given a port to these locations, but really this should be provided anyway and it should have a cooldown equivalent to that of the Allegiance Hall port (5 minutes).

More importantly, though, I get the sense that crafting and exploration in LOTRO, which have always gone together in some capacity (one collects nodes to make things) could be even more closely linked. I am always disheartened by the lack of actual exploration that is incentivized in LOTRO considering the size and fidelity of its open world. LOTRO, in my opinion, has one of the most well-realized worlds in gaming. And, like crafting, the world of Middle-earth is a central pillar of Tolkien’s text. Considering both of these facts - the prominence of the character of Middle-earth in Tolkien’s text, and SSG’s detailed realization of this world - it seems like a huge missed opportunity that crafting (especially endgame crafting) devolves into a rinse and repeat cycle of crafting instance runs. I understand that this was done for convenience’s sake; at present, who wants to port over to the Pit of Stonejaws and collect scholar nodes every other day (there’s not much fun or interesting or explorative in that), so it’s less painful to run the crafting instances. You could, in theory, incentivize endgame players to visit any corner of Middle-earth without getting rid of crafting instances (though you may want to reduce the number of nodes per instance). Those interested in exploring (or on the fence) may be encouraged to do so by higher node counts in the open world while those who don’t wish to go out and explore aren’t forced to; this could be interesting. An idea to incentivize exploration in crafting, includes, oddly, changing the way resources are distributed in this game.

Rather than having resources associated with a craft tier and a level band (Gundabad Skarn for levels 131-140, for example), I would break resources into basic elements (copper, iron; silver, gold; First, Second, and Third Age relics for scholars, etc.) that could be found anywhere in Middle-earth. Maybe some regions would have higher concentrations of these resources (i.e. you could find iron, more commonly, in the Iron Hills; you could find First Age relics more commonly in Moria, Second Age relics in Eregion and Gondor) and maybe the level bands associated with these regions could have crafted items more dependent on those resources, but you would still need lower tier, base elements like copper. Even at level 140.

The purpose of this change would be twofold. First, it would encourage exploration by having you return to old areas or to seek out better resource patches than those available in your current level band. And two, it would change the landscape of the game’s economy: just as the Gundabad-tier Cooking recipes allowed low level players to participate in the endgame economy by providing level 140 Cooks with fish, allowing players to obtain resources of any kind (without a level or craft restrictions) that remain relevant even in endgame craft tiers, means that low level players or those who enjoy exploration could contribute to the economy in a meaningful way. It would solve two of the game’s current problems as well: the fact that the player population is in need of a goldsink and the fact that, unique to LOTRO, there are many players who take their time getting to 140 meaning that they are, for a long time, unable to contribute to the game’s economy in a meaningful way. Further, crafters who don’t want to or don’t have the time to explore are incentivized to buy materials from what would now be a (hopefully) lively auction house.

At a glance it may sound as though a reduction in and redistribution of resources might actually discourage exploration–for example, once players find the meta concentration of iron in the Iron Hills, they’ll simply spend their days in the Hills irregardless of what new regions the game brings—but I think if major concentrations of resources were rotated in some way, this would prevent such a thing. Of course, each crafting tier would also require what Orion calls “widgets” unique to that level band so that players are encouraged to engage in content unique to that band–for example, maybe Supreme crafters need to gain mithril flakes in Moria to alloy a copper found anywhere from the Shire to Umbar. So this could also be a way to add relevance to extra craft items and crit boosting items that usually age poorly.

Another way to incentivize exploration and engagement with lower-level tiers in crafting is simply to consider making a clearer item-based progression for recipes. By that I mean that lower-tier craft items can become the base for higher tier items. This would give players a reason to keep crafting lower tier items or to consider purchasing low tier items at auction. This is another craft mechanic that FFXIV does well

Such changes are obviously ambitious, controversial, and maybe not even doable within LOTRO’s engine but I wanted to suggest something that I think would entail a major shake-up to crafting that would make use of SSG’s big and beautiful Middle-earth. Even if SSG doesn’t follow my uninformed and speculative suggestion, I would hope that they would be as willing as I am to “do harm” to LOTRO’s current crafting system.
– Nenaras of Laurelin

Other general suggestions for LOTRO’s crafting include:

• Use craft guilds to distribute crafting instances. This has been mentioned before (and probably in this thread!), but at present crafting instances are distributed unevenly throughout the world and across various reputations, and it’s slightly clunky. One of the purposes of crafting guilds should be to provide instances to collect resources for each tier, in my opinion (even if I’d prefer SSG to incentivize exploration over instances!).
• Forging links between crafting and housing is great, but could we be a little more ambitious than the (very good) suggestions given by Orion? I know in a bygone stream: Scenario and Orion both replied to a question I gave about the possibility of “homesteading” with a mention that it’s something they’ve looked at in the past. Let’s do this! I’d love to raise livestock; milk cows; grow a garden (something different from farming at present?). Even if it was a simple, fluffy addition that only impacted a Cook recipe or two, I think it would be fun.
• Speaking of housing, crafting could also be used as a way to add the many assets requested in Scenario’s “Game Asset Housing Decoration” thread to the game. For example, if SSG doesn’t plan to go back to Rohan or Rivendell any time soon, why not add Rohirrim and Elven housing items to the crafting tiers that belong to the level bands associated with those regions?
• Further, considering we are able to deconstruct certain items in the game to receive crafting materials, why not allow crafters of a given profession to decon items they’ve created? This, perhaps, wouldn’t give them back all of the resources they used to create an item, but some. And though resources drop in ample supply at late levels, I can see some utility to this for lower level players who may not get access to resources as frequently as those at 140. If the utility is already present in the game, this could be an interesting addition.
• It goes without saying, but as Seschat says, crafted items should not be bound to character, let alone account. If you fear an item is too valuable to be shared on the auction house, then it should not be crafted. Crafted items should be the bulk of the game’s economy and this is only achieved (obviously) when these items are unbound.
• I also support the suggestion that tracking skills should show multiple types of nodes, especially if we will be allowed to train in all of the gathering professions.

[spanyard2]

I would like to comment on the professions. I think it's best to leave it at 3, to keep what you mention about interacting with other players and also avoid an unbalanced system, avoiding players who have the two pairs of professions needed to craft almost all armor or weapon recipes.

This doesn't make much sense to me but maybe it's just me. Example is a scholar is not going to max out his/her weaponsmith without having a prospector on a alt. I mean it's possible but wouldn't make much sense to have someone else process your ingots for your weaponsmith every time a person wanted to use it. GIVE US THE 4th TAB PRETTY PLEASE WITH CHERRIES ON TOP!

[spanyard2]

There are two things I've really been hoping for:

1) Basic recipes in the tiers after Anorien. It's what makes the gear grind so annoying later on because there are massive jumps in stats and you've got to deal with it because you aren't going to be able to craft anything until you get done with the zone and have max rep - and even then they require shards. Please give us the base-tier armor, weapons, jewelry and the like back.

2) Decorative, cosmetic, housing, and misc. fluff. I miss being able to craft the different beers with my Cook because they just stop after a while. And there's a ton of existing furniture that could be adapted for players to craft.

100% agree with needing basic recipes in the tiers above Anorien. Would need to be rep and barter token free too so people can actually use it as they level. Now I am specifically talking about the base recipes that are yellow gear with purple crits. Leave all the higher tier stuff like teal, gold, single use recipes for the grind like needing reputation, drops, instances and barter tokens or special items like shards etc. So I still want to see the challenge and rare mats/drops, only the base recipes like they were Anorien and down.

[Belriana]

Would love to be able to craft top tier essences!

[Weilan]

It's cool that vocations are going away, but will a player be able to remove professions they don't want?

For example everyone who now has a certain vocation has 3 professions they may or may not need. When vocations are removed will players be able to remove the professions they don't need?

Or in a different scenario - you did the introduction quests for crafting but do not want to practice any professions on your character, can you remove all of them after this update?

WoW allows you to remove professions, it only seems logical for LOTRO do allow this too.

[SSG_Orion]

Thank you to everyone for participating. We are closing this thread now and will review for feedback and help in making the changes to the crafting system!