We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. #1
    Kehleyr_SSG's Avatar
    Kehleyr_SSG is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    0

    Feedback: Gwathrenost, the Witch-king's Citadel

    Please post your feedback regarding the Raid instance Gwathrenost, the Witch-king's Citadel in this thread.
    Quality Assurance Team Lead
    The Lord of the Rings Online
    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us." -Gandalf

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    4,112
    Quest NPC and quest items counts for everone in raid, but some items (for deed?) don't counts for everyone and only 1 players per raid per dun can use it?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,381
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehleyr_SSG View Post
    Please post your feedback regarding the Raid instance Gwathrenost, the Witch-king's Citadel in this thread.
    T1

    No skill mechanics on any boss.

    Boss 3 -

    High Chieftain Claghórd just greenbars at 50%. High Priestess Ásachal just stands there perma green the whole fight.
    Unknown if intended during this first BR test?

    Adds in trashpulls throughout the raid seem super fun for any AoE class, but bunches of them INSIDE after boss one when you're clearing can be ignored and just left alone.
    Ex Gilrain, - World First Watcher V1, - Server First Draigoch, - Server only ToO T2C None Burg stack on level.
    Currently Evernight, Prime, - Shelob Wider, - World/Server First or Second for: Abyss, Anvil, Remmo, AD, FoKD, HoA.
    Worlds Only Abyss T2 6 Manned - Minstrel.
    +Celestrata - 'Surprise, it's not a glitch! :D'
    +Celestrata tells you 'You are by far the best mini I've seen out of any server, Congrats on world first!'

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,269
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorebane View Post
    T1
    High Priestess Ásachal just stands there perma green the whole fight.
    Asachal??? But she was dead....

    *what is this sorcery* I ask...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    5
    first of all, absolutely love the vibe in there

    overall seemed really easy, me and a friend duo'd up until b3 @50%, so i assume that's because no mechanics are in place, if not, might want to scale up some damage from boss, because a hunter and a red captain shouldnt be able to do that, even fully geared

    it felt like the boss damage was really low on b1, b2 was a lovely boss, however if you wipe on him, you're going to have to reset the instance, because the door in to him is bugged, so might want to fix that, cant really say anything on b3, since it was just "tank" and spank, down to 50% and then it was over

    only thing i didnt like was that it felt way too easy, so i do hope you plan on adding some mechanics that makes it a bit more challanging, because if 2 people can duo it, 12 people will find it really boring

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,381
    EDIT --- 35.1 BR#1


    T1 still duoable. At least Boss 3 seems to have all it's text lines and activations in place now. The gargoyles that attack are pretty cool, can't be agroable and just hit people but does nothing overall in T1.

    T2 -

    Boss 1 Gurkrak
    - same as T1. No mechanics. A paper bird could tank it. Basically a speedrun afk nuke.

    Boss 2 Castellan Obáshurz
    - Implimented more adds at certain morale. Some adds have a buff that increases their damage? But honestly, it's just another stack AoE and target boss. Dead in just over 1 minute with 7 dps. lol.

    Boss 3 High Priestess Ásachal & High Chieftain Claghórd. Twin fight
    - Finally there's more to the fight after 50% of the mans morale. --- WAYYYY too long RP. It's like 3?4?5? minutes of afk time. I know it's about lore but ZZzzzz.
    Bosses don't gain anything when they're back active, just tank and spank. The Witch-Queen says some text lines, but nothing happen? -- Can kill man without anything happening. -- Stone gargoyles now do some extra harder hit? (tank got hit by 800K 3x almost instantly through maxed mits) But again, just group up and afk AoE.

    Boss 4 Shard Of Tauressar
    - Okay, now I LOVE the animations of the shard but.... that's it. No mechanics and greenbars at 80%. (Possible Teleport supposed to happen here? Since the protective walls disappear) But apart from that, it's just a pretty shard, doing 50k hits with nearly 2 Billion morale... pretty anti climatic so far lol.


    Overall, .... kinda disappointing. Ngl. There's not really anything proper to give feedback on since there's NO mechanics other than pewpew and afk. As I said above, T1 was duo'd in last BR, and I'm pretty sure this version of T2 could be done as well. Hell, I think the new warden updates would allow them to SOLO T1 currently.

    From my persepective and knowledge of timed releases from past BR's across the years, this raid in weeks and weeks away from live.

    Guess we'll see what BR#2 has in store.
    Last edited by Thorebane; Mar 29 2023 at 09:54 PM.
    Ex Gilrain, - World First Watcher V1, - Server First Draigoch, - Server only ToO T2C None Burg stack on level.
    Currently Evernight, Prime, - Shelob Wider, - World/Server First or Second for: Abyss, Anvil, Remmo, AD, FoKD, HoA.
    Worlds Only Abyss T2 6 Manned - Minstrel.
    +Celestrata - 'Surprise, it's not a glitch! :D'
    +Celestrata tells you 'You are by far the best mini I've seen out of any server, Congrats on world first!'

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    0
    As for feedback on this raid (beta 2) there is not much to give.

    In general the bosses are not doing any particular mechanics on either tier 1 or tier 2.

    Boss 1: Gurkrak, just having some lines, not doing anything, nor putting any buff up at all. No adds spawning, just a Guardian holding the door to the tower. Moralebot, tank n spank it seems, hope it doesn't stay this way with actual mechanics.

    Trash just got certain moralepools which will be something on the highest tiers, hopefully more interesting then right now.

    Boss 2: Obashurz, spawning some adds from all sides based on % it seems. Nothing more to it really. No further buffs/mechanics.

    Boss 3: Asachál and Claghórd, no buffs or mechanics related to their % or status. 4 adds spawning (like Wyverns/Small Flying Drakekind/Converts) which have really weird movement. I suppose there is also happening something with Claghord after 50% as he gets possessed or something, but nothing added yet.
    Big arena, I guess there are supposed to be a lot more mechanics implemented before this even hits live servers I guess. Adds/Puddles/Knockbacks/Bleeds/(De)buffs/Corruptions....

    Boss 4: Shard of Tauressar, bugs out at 80%? Supposedly we are being ported to something?

    In general it is nice you put up the raid on t1/t2 for testing, but if there is nothing in it, what is the point in testing in general? The only things that were doing damage were the flying things in boss 3 after Asachal hitted 50%, for the rest we are testing a raid with blunt/empty mechanics, how are we supposed to give feedback then?

    The space overall looks cool, but there is simply not a lot/barely feedback at this point to give.

    I don't care how long it takes, but I prefer you release something at start that is worthwhile. If tier 2 is supposed to be this easy, then I am worried!

    Sincerely,

    Aegiys

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    4,112
    test looks like "ok, we can't input 35.0.1 update, but since we already doing something in server room, why don't open BR and show another piece of T1 raid?". Can't see why it can't be done for full time in previous testing

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    16
    Don't have too much meaningful feedback to give right now, considering there aren't any mechanics implemented yet. Only point that I'd like to make is to consider switching the add wave spawns on the second boss from a morale percentage basis to a timer (something like 2 wraiths every 30s). Having the general structure of an encounter be a boss with add waves (particularly add waves of gradually increasing difficulty) spawning at set morale thresholds can be problematic, and is I think the main reason Hiddenhoard's second and third bosses were generally poorly received. The issue is that if the fight needs to be balanced around the hardest add wave (e.g. Obáshurz + 8 wraiths together need to be a manageable difficulty) then the other parts of fight (e.g. Obáshurz + 4 wraiths, or just Obáshurz by himself) will be trivial/boring, and then it sucks having to redo all the trivial parts of a fight whenever you wipe on the one hard part. There are some ways around this--I think the Shelob fight did particularly well by taking the boss out of the fight during the add waves, allowing the phases with only Shelob to have a bit more room for interesting mechanics. But even so, in general I've found the encounters which spawn a steady trickle of adds on a timer (or those that mix the two, some adds on a timer and some at morale thresholds) are much more engaging/enjoyable.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Posts
    28
    High Priestess Ásachal & High Chieftain Claghórd
    Developers add some interesting dialogs during the final battle. Witch- Queen Asachal followed the example of Lhaereth the Stained and reforged her ally ( may be he was not only her ally , but her lover too or something else) into a minion. Also , she summons some flying things to help her cope with invaders There is a matriarchate in Angmar and other dark lands and Angmarim sorceress are more powerful and talented then man.
    We killed Ásachal in Tûr Fúar, the Drearspire. So this woman is another witch named Ásachal ( Asachal is a popular name in Angmar) , or her clone...Or Asachal-from Tur Fuar survived in that battle and escaped...Or powerful Angmarim witches can ressurect and rise from death..

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    4,112
    It will be interesting if final battle will have connection with places where other oath stones was found, like OD final battle with Gortheron

  12. #12
    CaerArianrhod's Avatar
    CaerArianrhod is offline Rohirrim Scout
    Guardian of Erebrandir's Horseshoe's Secret
    Trainer of the Rabbits
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,451

    Bugs

    First time entering the raid (T1) all the mobs outside the citadel were level 50 (9K moral). Fist troll boss too. No chest after killing the boss.


    If the fight is reset at the castellan the door remain closed. (T1)



  13. #13
    CaerArianrhod's Avatar
    CaerArianrhod is offline Rohirrim Scout
    Guardian of Erebrandir's Horseshoe's Secret
    Trainer of the Rabbits
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,451

    Carn Dum Jewelerry Broken Stat Combinations

    Some of the Carn Dum Jewellery has broken stat combinations


    Might % Ranged Damage? This set should offer melee damage, as ranged damage with agility is already offered by the "Fiery"-Set


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    4,112
    Quote Originally Posted by CaerArianrhod View Post
    Some of the Carn Dum Jewellery has broken stat combinations


    Might % Ranged Damage? This set should offer melee damage, as ranged damage with agility is already offered by the "Fiery"-Set
    Future corsar gear revealed

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    16
    What is there even to give feedback on? There are no mechanics.

    What can we expect?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    478
    Can't give any feedback as i couldn't run the raid as there were only 3 people on Bullroarer and one of them was only level 20

    Where are all the testers!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,381
    Quote Originally Posted by Digaloo View Post
    Can't give any feedback as i couldn't run the raid as there were only 3 people on Bullroarer and one of them was only level 20

    Where are all the testers!
    A lot of us have already started to give up with BR, since this is the 4th?5th? open without any mechanics.
    Ex Gilrain, - World First Watcher V1, - Server First Draigoch, - Server only ToO T2C None Burg stack on level.
    Currently Evernight, Prime, - Shelob Wider, - World/Server First or Second for: Abyss, Anvil, Remmo, AD, FoKD, HoA.
    Worlds Only Abyss T2 6 Manned - Minstrel.
    +Celestrata - 'Surprise, it's not a glitch! :D'
    +Celestrata tells you 'You are by far the best mini I've seen out of any server, Congrats on world first!'

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    286
    Boss 1 has mechanics but its really easy. It's something i guess but theres no damage threat

    Boss 2 you can interrupt everything but even if you dont it's utterly non threatening

    Boss 3 has no mechanics still. the statues still bug out constantly with animations. Patch note mistake?

    boss 4 no mechanics and way too much health if we're killing that. way too much

    Very disappointing
    Last edited by Nubja; Apr 14 2023 at 05:33 PM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    9

    Boss 3 too long

    Boss 1 is great! Fun, not too long, good mix of mechanic types. Well done. Very well done.
    Boss 2 could use 1 less add phase. It feels repetitive and boring.
    Boss 3 is WAY too long overall. Bosses have too much morale and there are FAR too many add phases total between the two bosses. Short intense fights like we saw in sagroth are so so much more enjoyable than long slogs like we saw in SV. Can you trim this fight up some more? I actually hate it in current form.
    Didn't do boss 4 yet.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    61
    Boss 1 and 2 feel good. There are a bit too many adds overall between bosses maybe and Boss 3 has waaaay to much morale and there are probably some mechanics missing, Boss 4 same.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    286
    Boss 1 fine i guess. too easy and thunderous means tank never even reaches high debuff

    I like boss 2, bit repetitive but not so bad

    Boss 3 is so boring. Did you learn nothing from hrimil? stop with the 25m fights with the only threat at a low %

    Boss 4 not finished? It's turtle 2.0 but with random adds slapped in the middle?

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    0
    Boss 1 (Gurkrak)
    Feels like a sideboss, I don't know if that is intended, but on T3 its really easy.
    Circles on boss 1 from Thundering Blows do not apply to the tank, thats tanking Gurkrak so you can just standstill with the boss in a corner.
    Bleed from the boss are never reaching the highest tier, because before he does he will do Thundering Blows again.
    Adds that spawn are easily CC'd and interruptable and don't do any other effects then just healing the boss a tiny bit, feels a bit dull imo.
    If you wanna make it more interesting also shift the enrage timer down!

    Boss 2 (Castellan Obashurz)
    Looks good imo. Effects are understandable and nice, enrage timer is tight, which makes it pretty good. Also good to have a fight thats less then 10 minutes(also for higher tiers to come, hopefully you don't change that to make it more interesting).
    Need to make good use of the room, think personally the puddles from boss and adds can linger around a bit longer for a bit more challenging concept.

    Boss 3 (High Chieftain Claghórd and High Priestress Asachal)
    The bosses for T3 have way to much health (would like to see this reduced), on T5 they will end up with both like 4-5 billion each this way, makes no sense. Even Hrimil has less health then them on T5.
    Effects and mechanics are quite bland and unseasoned. Adds spawn at % of health, in a later stage Druzog's will spawn (maybe let those respawn on a fixed timer instead?)
    The Pillars and spikes on the sides should have use. Bosses are not doing any knockbacks so you can freely tank whereever you want without any harm.
    Boiling Blood puddles should linger around way longer to make it more challenging!
    Enrage timer missing....

    Boss 4 (Shard of Tauressar)
    This boss is buggy as hell. Puddles do a lot of damage(quite huge tbh for t3).
    Can use the entire arena this time (can cross the fire), which means you can bug the boss out in a corner he cannot reach (rather keep the arena and boundaries closed as they were with boss 3)
    Boss is doing knockbacks, but since the barrier for B3 and fire are gone this effect is easily taken care off. Seems also quite Hunter and quite melee unfriendly!
    Same as boss 3 way to much health (nothing interesting happens until you get it to a certain %).
    Enrage timer missing....

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    0
    As a sidenote. The stats on the raid jewellery is actually worse then Hiddenhoard, Sarch Vorn, Delvings stuff.

    Regarding classes these stats are most wanted for classes in general, maybe if you still look into your jewellery you can consider some change.

    Tank jewels
    Guardian/Warden/Brawler Tank: (Vitality/Tactical Mitigation/Finesse) mostly - (Physical mitigation/Resistance rating/fate/might(heavy)/agility(warden)/incoming healing/crit defence) additionally.
    Captain Tank: (Vitality/Tactical Mitigation) mostly - (Physical mitigation/Resistance rating/fate/might(heavy)/agility(warden)/incoming healing/crit defence) additionally.

    With most tanks already capped on mitigations (especially physical mitigation, the aim should be more on tactical mitigation on jewellery, rather then physical). Finesse is a really good stat for most tanks as well and misses out on almost all new jewellery pieces unfortunately.

    Healing jewels
    Beorning: (Mitigations/Finesse/Outgoing Healing/Critical Rating) mostly
    RK/Mini/Captain (Mitigations/Outgoing Healing/Critical Rating) mostly

    DPS jewels
    Could apply to any DPS class (aim on main stat/mastery/mitigations (tactical mostly)/finesse/critical rating/vitality)

    The stats of all jewellery from raid is VERY underwhelming now, even considering using 1-2 jewels and keeping the rest as it is with current gear!

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    16
    Two points of general feedback for the raid:


    1. I've said it before and I'll say it again: having large add waves spawn at boss morale thresholds is a horrible way to structure an encounter. Smaller add waves spawning on a timer is vastly superior in most contexts. The reason is simple: if a fight needs to be balanced so that the boss plus a large add wave create an intense/challenging situation, then the rest of the fight with only the boss or the boss and less adds is necessarily easy and boring. If the fight instead involves a steady trickle of smaller add spawns, then it can be balanced around the boss plus a few adds being a challenge, and that level of challenge can be maintained throughout. And unsurprisingly, fights that maintain a consistent moderate-to-high level of challenge throughout are much more enjoyable than fights that have one huge thirty-second spike in difficulty fifteen minutes in but are otherwise trivially easy.


    With that said, I think changing all add spawns to be timed would be a fairly simple change that would greatly improve all the bosses, but particularly boss 3 (and maybe 4? I haven't had time to test boss 4, but I've heard it has similar add waves to boss 3). Really I think boss 3 should have had the current middle phase (with both bosses and no adds) to start with, and then introduced different timed add waves after one boss died, based on which was left alive. But that's quite a large structural change to the fight that we're presumably far too late in development to consider. So instead I'll give an example of how the Ásachal-only phase (starting at Claghórd's death) could have its adds re-organized in the current fight. Replace the large add waves at 80 and 60% with timed add spawns. Every 45s, alternate between spawning: 1x Sorcerer + 2x Priest (interrupt immunity aura + channeled root + boiling blood are a nicely thought-out combo of mechanics that should stay together) or 4x Soldier + 4x Sentinel (presumably these will do something interesting once Mark of the Witch-queen is implemented?). Number would doubtless need tweaking, but something along those lines would make the fight many times more enjoyable.


    2. The difficulty progression between tiers is a bit odd in this raid. Ever since Threshold the goal seems to have been (I think it was even explicitly stated somewhere?) for tier 1 to be more of a 'story mode', with very limited mechanics that didn't require any particular group composition outside of maybe one tank and one healer. That was certainly the trend with Threshold, Fall of KD, and Hiddenhoard, in any case. This raid is far harder on tier 1, with practically all of the mechanics already present, and gains far fewer new mechanics on t2 and t3. I'm guessing a lot of PuGs are going to be rather discouraged by this (definitely on Gladden at least, can't speak for other servers). I would consider changing around where some mechanics appear. For example:
    -Remove all tank-swap debuffs from T1 (following precedent of AD/FoKD/HH)
    -Remove Ásachal and Claghórd's auras from T1 (again, following precedent of only requiring one tank)
    -Remove Obáshurz's Shadow-grip from T1 (so single target version only present on T2)



    Bugs and specific issues:


    1. On tier 1 the respawn locations seemed to update correctly, at least on the previous BR (right outside boss 2 room once you get to boss 2, same for boss 3/4). But on tier 3 they seem to be lagging one behind (so you spawn at the beginning of the castle once you get to boss 2, and outside the boss 2 room once you get to boss 3, only spawn outside the final room once you're on boss 4).


    2. The enrage timer on boss 2 is in a good spot, feels appropriately tight for tier 3. Boss 1 is very generous, though, it could probably have 2-3 minutes safely shaved off of it if it's meant to serve as a real DPS check.


    3. Is there any reason that Veil of Sorcery and Vile Retribution (on boss 2 and his attendants) only reflect on tactical damage? It's not a catastrophically bad reflect either way (thank you for making it reflect % morale damage!!), but it seems a bit odd to punish tactical classes for no particular reason, especially when the attendants' brittle armour effect already encourages melee DPS in that fight.


    4. The shadow damage effect that the boss pulses during Ritual of Rebinding is really low, besides DPS-buffing the tanks and healers have nothing at all to do in this phase. Would love to see either this damage increased or some other source of damage added to this phase.


    5. Claghórd's Open Wounds skill is set to be used on self rather than target, so it's currently non-function/never executes.


    6. Would be awesome if Boiling Blood could get a ~30s target cooldown (similar to Subjugating Shadows) so that it doesn't always target the same 4 people. Also, the count-down DoT damage is pretty low. I healed this fight and couldn't even notice people taking damage from it, would be nice to have this damage scaled up considerably so there's a bit more dynamic healing to do.


    7. Not an issue, just want to say I absolutely love the Berserk and Illusive Bulwark corruptions. Anything that gives players choices about how to do the fight is a win in my book.


    8. Somewhat related to 7, the Axe-toss power drain kind of seems like it's supposed to give you a choice of whether to keep it and deal with the power drain or cure it and deal with the damage. But the damage is so low and the power drain so high that you'll always want to immediately cure it. Would love to see the power drain reduced and the damage increased so it's a more interesting choice. Or, better yet, move the power drain to an expiration effect. So for example: Axe-toss--5s duration, on removal deal 40% max morale as typeless/non-mitigatable damage, on expiration drain 100% max power.


    9. Another non-issue, just want to say I love Ásachal's Fire From Beyond attack, awesome way to force some choreographed movement and makes great use of the arena (read: the lava).






    Overall I really like this raid, quite excited for it to come out! I think there are a lot of very well thought-out mechanics that fit together into some really nice experiences. Gurkrak is a good boss 1, fairly simple but with a few nice mechanics. Hope it gets at least once unique T3 mechanic by the time T3 is released. Obáshurz is very well put together as is, definitely the most fun fight currently. Ásachal and Claghórd also have some really nice mechanics and interactions, but, as everyone else has said, the huge add spam ruins the fight. I really think moving to smaller, timed add spawns (and maybe slightly reducing boss morale) would make this an amazing fight. Boss 4 I've only seen a little of, but also looks like a solid start. Excited to see it in its finished form.


    I hope some part of that was useful
    Last edited by cakeparsee; Apr 28 2023 at 05:36 PM.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload