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  1. #101
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    Lotro for almost a year the inclusion of all races began thanks to them my lm and champion hobbits but now hairstyles and new faces are also needed for all races no man I just hope that hobbits and also elves and dwarves have that face update And hairstyles we only have the same ones I always want new hairstyles now and other faces please continue with the inclusion and I hope next cpt and rk hobbit thanks

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by auximenes View Post
    Because we're going south? There logically should be more darker-skinned inhabitants.
    Like you didn't even read what I wrote. Just some more and most likely as slaves, because we're going to Umbar. Not to Far Harad or Near Harad.

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmagor View Post
    And you forget to add "when we can choice origins from Harad for our characters". Some hairstyles have sense when people from Harad/Rhun/Nurn have them, but how they make sense for people from Gondor/Rohan/Anor? Yes, we can imagine what man from Gondor fell with love with woman from Harad after war, but... that will be exception only proves the rules. Are you sure what people from Gondor accepts Aragorn from this picture above as their king? Don't think so.
    Sound like you are too concern about how other players choose to represent their toons race. & what appearance is In Your Opinion suited for marriage. That at the end isn't even a feature between playable characters at LOTRO so who cares? Anyways, my comment was about Arwens hair, nothing to do with marriage, that i'm being asking that kind of curly for years. It is too easy to just play the game & let everyone look however they please. The hilarious part is that this is purely cosmetic. It doesn't affect how you or any other toon kill orcs anyhow. Live & let live!!!

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by wispsong View Post
    Inhabitants and characters are different though. None of our characters come from these regions.
    Yes, but since they didn't expand the origin choices anybody inspired by the new areas to make a character from that area has to choose one of the existing origins. Not adding new origins to go along with the new character model options is a mistake.
    << Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by TesalionLortus View Post
    Like you didn't even read what I wrote. Just some more and most likely as slaves, because we're going to Umbar. Not to Far Harad or Near Harad.
    This isn't complicated. We're going south. There are going to be more dark-skinned people, by the lore. I didn't say all with be dark-skinned.
    << Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
    Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir


  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by YamydeAragon View Post
    [
    Sound like you are too concern about how other players choose to represent their toons race. & what appearance is In Your Opinion suited for marriage. That at the end isn't even a feature between playable characters at LOTRO so who cares? Anyways, my comment was about Arwens hair, nothing to do with marriage, that i'm being asking that kind of curly for years. It is too easy to just play the game & let everyone look however they please. The hilarious part is that this is purely cosmetic. It doesn't affect how you or any other toon kill orcs anyhow. Live & let live!!!
    I think many who play this game, does it for the love of Tolkiens work.
    So they care, since they want to immerse themself into his universe. True fans sees this, WoW players do not, because they are used to a bag of nuts and bolts when it comes to lore.
    So adding features that seems more WoW lore friendly than lotr, will ofc be meet with an opinion, despite it being cometics. That is how fans react.

    In regard towards the lore, SSG have been very faithfully adopting their game with respect towards the lore. They have ofc broken it here and there, but that was becasue of copyrights and the need to create content enough in certain areas.
    That said, they have been very loyal towards the landscape and Im in deep awe towards that work (despite Im being negative to lots of other things SSG does).

    So seeing a bright gingerhead bearded female with dark skin and afro hair that look like three bowls ontop, will break the immersion (at least for me)... but it will also make me laugh and think what madhouse is this?

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by wispsong View Post
    Inhabitants and characters are different though. None of our characters come from these regions.
    None of your characters do. I have an easterling refugee character that I used dale for because I could get a decent skin shade for her. Hell, Gondorians should have many of these options because it's a melting pot. My hunter I RP as a ranger and I'd like her to look a bit more native american, but I picked Bree originally.

    Quote Originally Posted by auximenes View Post
    Yes, but since they didn't expand the origin choices anybody inspired by the new areas to make a character from that area has to choose one of the existing origins. Not adding new origins to go along with the new character model options is a mistake.
    I'm cool with adding new origin choices as long as there's some way for existing characters to access the new character options without paying real life money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aranaan View Post
    I think many who play this game, does it for the love of Tolkiens work.
    So they care, since they want to immerse themself into his universe. True fans sees this, WoW players do not, because they are used to a bag of nuts and bolts when it comes to lore.
    So adding features that seems more WoW lore friendly than lotr, will ofc be meet with an opinion, despite it being cometics. That is how fans react.

    In regard towards the lore, SSG have been very faithfully adopting their game with respect towards the lore. They have ofc broken it here and there, but that was becasue of copyrights and the need to create content enough in certain areas.
    That said, they have been very loyal towards the landscape and Im in deep awe towards that work (despite Im being negative to lots of other things SSG does).

    So seeing a bright gingerhead bearded female with dark skin and afro hair that look like three bowls ontop, will break the immersion (at least for me)... but it will also make me laugh and think what madhouse is this?
    Generalizing much? I know many, many wow players, myself included, who did enjoy immersing themselves in that universe (It actually has a really interesting and cool in-universe history, lore and backstory) and most of us quit in BFA or Shadowlands because of the way the writers in that game were screwing things up (generally by breaking their own internal lore consistency). Dragonflight has been a breath of fresh air though and I'm not just saying that because wow's dragon lore has always been a fave of mine. I don't regret giving that one a shot though I don't know when I'll sub up again. Depends on if they keep locking the story behind a rep grind or not, which was why I quit after finishing the first bit up to level 60.

    I'm also a huge tolkien geek with a deep love of his work, Middle-earth and the lore. I have absolutely no problem with what they are doing.

    Going to lament again because what I originally wanted to discuss was issues like some of the hair not sitting right, there being see-through gaps, some texture issues, and issues where skin appears too ashen, or too waxy or whatever. You know, technicalfeed back lol

  8. #108
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    This is a cool and fun update!
    Leader of the Mitey Worriers (Laurelin)
    Purveyors of premier meats and vegan substitutes since 26/12/17


  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by SniperCT View Post
    Generalizing much? I know many, many wow players, myself included, who did enjoy immersing themselves in that universe (It actually has a really interesting and cool in-universe history, lore and backstory) and most of us quit in BFA or Shadowlands because of the way the writers in that game were screwing things up (generally by breaking their own internal lore consistency). Dragonflight has been a breath of fresh air though and I'm not just saying that because wow's dragon lore has always been a fave of mine. I don't regret giving that one a shot though I don't know when I'll sub up again. Depends on if they keep locking the story behind a rep grind or not, which was why I quit after finishing the first bit up to level 60.

    I'm also a huge tolkien geek with a deep love of his work, Middle-earth and the lore. I have absolutely no problem with what they are doing.

    Going to lament again because what I originally wanted to discuss was issues like some of the hair not sitting right, there being see-through gaps, some texture issues, and issues where skin appears too ashen, or too waxy or whatever. You know, technicalfeed back lol
    Cool backstory...
    but yeah I might have generalized this, but the norm on my statements stands, based on my experience on this issue. You might ofc have another experience, which is fine by me.

    As for technical feedback, this is not the place as SSG have stated many times. Use their reports for such and they "might" do something with it.
    I have been in Bullroar many times and seen all the faults that appears initially. Just a very tiny percentage of those reported here in forums are responded upon, unless they are major faults.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by auximenes View Post
    This isn't complicated. We're going south. There are going to be more dark-skinned people, by the lore. I didn't say all with be dark-skinned.
    Yes, south to Umbar. Which doesn't exactly warrant legions of NPCs and mobs with dread locks and braids, nor people with central-African-like ethnicities. Something like 5-10 percent at best, and perhaps more amongst the slaves they keep, but not as much for mobs. That's why I said I'm surprised people keep saying "we're going south!" in the context of this avatar update, as if the two were connected. Did we get any Arab-styled additions, hairstyles, beard types? Hmm, not really.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by auximenes View Post
    This isn't complicated. We're going south. There are going to be more dark-skinned people, by the lore. I didn't say all with be dark-skinned.
    Based on our timeline, Aragorn need few years to siege Umbar, and even after that, he don't go to Harad right after siege.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Aranaan View Post
    I think many who play this game, does it for the love of Tolkiens work.
    So they care, since they want to immerse themself into his universe. True fans sees this, WoW players do not, because they are used to a bag of nuts and bolts when it comes to lore.
    So adding features that seems more WoW lore friendly than lotr, will ofc be meet with an opinion, despite it being cometics. That is how fans react.

    In regard towards the lore, SSG have been very faithfully adopting their game with respect towards the lore. They have ofc broken it here and there, but that was becasue of copyrights and the need to create content enough in certain areas.
    That said, they have been very loyal towards the landscape and Im in deep awe towards that work (despite Im being negative to lots of other things SSG does).

    So seeing a bright gingerhead bearded female with dark skin and afro hair that look like three bowls ontop, will break the immersion (at least for me)... but it will also make me laugh and think what madhouse is this?
    I have read all Tolkiens books & nowhere in the lore say that all inhabitants of Arda are identical clones. The devs making our character selection diverse looking doesnt break any lore. Also, variety is a fact of nature. Species that aren't genetically diverse enough are doom to extinction. Tolkiens was not a ignorant he surely knew that & his world was rich on variety.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by YamydeAragon View Post
    The devs making our character selection diverse looking doesnt break any lore.
    No, but having only Western factions and geographical locations to choose from does, as well as ignoring the inclusion of Middle-eastern looks (though, technically, you cannot tie that to Tolkien lore in any specific strong context... but you can to SSG's own lore)

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by TesalionLortus View Post
    No, but having only Western factions and geographical locations to choose from does, as well as ignoring the inclusion of Middle-eastern looks (though, technically, you cannot tie that to Tolkien lore in any specific strong context... but you can to SSG's own lore)
    Because we have only western factions in current timeline? And even after war of the rings ends and Anor was united with Gondor, Aragorn only re-join Umbar as part of Gondor. Harad stay as independent sovereign country. Why we have that choice suddenly right now, when war don't ends, and people from Umbar, Harad still considered as enemy for Rohan and Gondor?

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmagor View Post
    Because we have only western factions in current timeline? And even after war of the rings ends and Anor was united with Gondor, Aragorn only re-join Umbar as part of Gondor. Harad stay as independent sovereign country. Why we have that choice suddenly right now, when war don't ends, and people from Umbar, Harad still considered as enemy for Rohan and Gondor?
    If you want to go with the very hermetic, strictly lore approach, without playing around with some wiggle room for justifying possibilities (so like at launch), then sure. But clearly that closes the doors for any rich variety for character creation, in terms of wide range of skin tones and ethnicities. That said, we can have all these varied ethnic choices and still keep some basic feel and lore taste of Middle-earth - through many different origins and ideally some more options and some specific cool cultural features (tattoos, paint) if they went that route and chose to make those (they didn't for now, sadly).

    Consider this, for the strictly purist lore accuracy - you would be able to choose Far Harad origin, create Far Haradrim woman from some clan you imagined, valar up to lvl 140 and participate in some of the Umbar content and questing in adjacent future areas, set at the time After the Fall. How is that for hardcore lore accurate? Possible. Would have been cool to roleplay sometime in the future. But not without those origins Feels kinda underwhelming and invalidating if they aren't there because makes you feel kind of like the devs wanna just invalidate their own game and own rich lore

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by TesalionLortus View Post
    If you want to go with the very hermetic, strictly lore approach, without playing around with some wiggle room for justifying possibilities (so like at launch), then sure. But clearly that closes the doors for any rich variety for character creation, in terms of wide range of skin tones and ethnicities. That said, we can have all these varied ethnic choices and still keep some basic feel and lore taste of Middle-earth - through many different origins and ideally some more options and some specific cool cultural features (tattoos, paint) if they went that route and chose to make those (they didn't for now, sadly).

    Consider this, for the strictly purist lore accuracy - you would be able to choose Far Harad origin, create Far Haradrim woman from some clan you imagined, valar up to lvl 140 and participate in some of the Umbar content and questing in adjacent future areas, set at the time After the Fall. How is that for hardcore lore accurate? Possible. Would have been cool to roleplay sometime in the future. But not without those origins Feels kinda underwhelming and invalidating if they aren't there because makes you feel kind of like the devs wanna just invalidate their own game and own rich lore
    I agree this is possible but only AFTER they introduce Harad and Umbar. And lore wise, how we can complete quests in Umbar and Harad if our characters looks like from Umbar and Harad, and have Umbar and Harad as origins? Players from race of man with Gondor and Rohan origins will have 100% same quest text as players from race of man with Umbar and Harad origins? Lore wise and story wise it will look very weird.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by YamydeAragon View Post
    I have read all Tolkiens books & nowhere in the lore say that all inhabitants of Arda are identical clones. The devs making our character selection diverse looking doesnt break any lore. Also, variety is a fact of nature. Species that aren't genetically diverse enough are doom to extinction. Tolkiens was not a ignorant he surely knew that & his world was rich on variety.
    Tolkien has his own races...elf, dwarf, man and hobbit. His work is based on northern mythology. NORTHERN, not Arabian, African, Asian, American...northern European mythology. And while it has in our modern time become very common to melt everything together to the point of distorting history, not so long ago that was not the case. If we respect Tolkien, we accept ME as such and don't mix and match for our pleasure.

    This is a game moving further away from the original already and I really don't fault them wanting to appeal to a bigger public, but the danger is losing faithful players for those who might just check it out and leave or never come. Is it worth the risk to alienate current players?

    We need more common-sense hairdos, that's for sure and it will be up to the players to show what they prefer. In the end, hopefully this community is mature enough to want the more ME appropriate than the outlandish NYC look.

    Edit: Why do people want to play a fantasy but look like they do? I don't look or even act like in real life, the point of playing this game is forgetting real life.

  18. #118
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    I really don't understand why people care so much if someone creates a character that looks a little different from their character. I don't see long threads about many of the names and pet names you see wandering around the game, but add a couple of hair styles and skin colors and the forums are up in arms about the lore. What is the difference between non lore appropriate names (some being actually offensive if you look at them closely) and a more modern hairstyle or different skin color? Why is it ok when people walk around with as much armor removed to give the appearance of being almost naked? The dwarf dresses have been around since the beginning of the game and seeing a dwarf in a fancy dress is so common most people don't even notice anymore. The beards for women is a bit odd, but it is probably less work for the devs to have one table of choices for both male and female. I suspect (could be wrong) that the beards are just a copy/paste/use one table instead of two type thing. It is probably less work to create one and use it for both male and female than create separate tables. The new choices are just a bit of fun and change for people. Nothing wrong that I can see with someone not wanting to look like everyone else in game.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmagor View Post
    Players from race of man with Gondor and Rohan origins will have 100% same quest text as players from race of man with Umbar and Harad origins? Lore wise and story wise it will look very weird.
    Yes, but in that case you can opt out of certain quests for immersion. Just go around those villages and help people deal with stuff, do the fighting against Corsair cruelty and Black Serpent regime. Don't need to engage with Westerners (and I still hope there won't be any anyway, since it's too early in the narrative for Aragorn to just send new troops on yet another front, so that wouldn't be a problem in that case, if Westerner armies aren't even there, just your character)

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neinda View Post
    I really don't understand why people care so much if someone creates a character that looks a little different from their character. I don't see long threads about many of the names and pet names you see wandering around the game, but add a couple of hair styles and skin colors and the forums are up in arms about the lore. What is the difference between non lore appropriate names (some being actually offensive if you look at them closely) and a more modern hairstyle or different skin color? Why is it ok when people walk around with as much armor removed to give the appearance of being almost naked? The dwarf dresses have been around since the beginning of the game and seeing a dwarf in a fancy dress is so common most people don't even notice anymore. The beards for women is a bit odd, but it is probably less work for the devs to have one table of choices for both male and female. I suspect (could be wrong) that the beards are just a copy/paste/use one table instead of two type thing. It is probably less work to create one and use it for both male and female than create separate tables. The new choices are just a bit of fun and change for people. Nothing wrong that I can see with someone not wanting to look like everyone else in game.
    Maybe you don't know, but many many pet names and character names not allowed in Lotro. Maybe you don't see difference between "having unique lore based game" and "having less work". They put a lot of effort to create unique lore based game. Why they need give up right now and go lose with uncontorlable changes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TesalionLortus View Post
    Yes, but in that case you can opt out of certain quests for immersion. Just go around those villages and help people deal with stuff, do the fighting against Corsair cruelty and Black Serpent regime. Don't need to engage with Westerners (and I still hope there won't be any anyway, since it's too early in the narrative for Aragorn to just send new troops on yet another front, so that wouldn't be a problem in that case, if Westerner armies aren't even there, just your character)
    But we KNOW what Westerner armies will be here. And we KNOW what this world have big problems between west and east side, and they are not based only on regime.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elmagor View Post
    Based on our timeline, Aragorn need few years to siege Umbar, and even after that, he don't go to Harad right after siege.
    And? We, as in the players, are going to Umbar later this year.
    << Co-founder of The Firebrands of Caruja on Landroval >>
    Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir


  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by auximenes View Post
    And? We, as in the players, are going to Umbar later this year.
    Players are from Bree, Dale, Rohan, Gondor....while I expect more Mediterranean and even darker colors in this region, players are not from there. Just like the British were in Africa but none of them was black.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by auximenes View Post
    And? We, as in the players, are going to Umbar later this year.
    But who say we going to Harad after that? We visit many places since 2007, how this affect on character creation options?

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by SniperCT View Post
    I'm also a huge tolkien geek with a deep love of his work, Middle-earth and the lore. I have absolutely no problem with what they are doing.

    Going to lament again because what I originally wanted to discuss was issues like some of the hair not sitting right, there being see-through gaps, some texture issues, and issues where skin appears too ashen, or too waxy or whatever. You know, technicalfeed back lol

    Likewise! Totally agree- and I'm sorry I got too "lore-booky" back there

    Yeah I agree- some of the textures are too ashen, etc. Generally, with the "default skin-tone," I've noticed all the human character models look like Mirkwood-heritage Elves now (*when the Mirkwood Elves are set to the deepest skin tones they can have). I think it's a good idea to . . . add to the existing options rather than remove from the existing options. Keeping folks who are happy with their current character looks happy is probably a very wise move to make.

    I'd greatly encourage the devs to consider making the following steps:

    1- Please DO NOT remove any current skin pigmentations; add the new stuff to what already exists with the current heritages - and this also applies to hair tones. Bree-land humans, for example, have this richer golden-brown texture as an option for hair that I wouldn't want them to remove.

    2- Please ADD all the "original game hair styles" simply as options you can choose from the barter. This should solve the issue of players who didn't like the avatar revamp losing that option. It would merely increase the current array of options, letting folks choose between original looks, avatar revamp looks, and the new options, as well as mixing / matching them as they'd please. The original game face sculpts are already options for changes at a barber on live servers.

    3- I'd highly recommend making some current hair styles for various races available - mainly for those of "humanoid statue" - across those races. For example: some Beorning hair styles would work great on humans. Some High Elven hair styles would look good on humans, etc. The "High Elf female" hair styles have some longer hair that would work on existing humans. Hair should be hair; there's no narrative rule against Gondorian women wearing jewelry in their hair, Rohirric women having more rugged looking hair styles (*as Beornings do), etc. etc. etc.

    I also agree that there are some odd gaps in some of the newer hair styles that could use some sprucing up. I'd also like the devs to revisit the graphics around the chin and mouth areas across all alts; there are some graphical "pixellated / cutting" issues on all faces for all current races, for the most part, that appear / vanish depending on where you move the third person camera looking at your own character's face.

    Cheers!
    Landroval player; I am Phantion on the forums only and do not have a corresponding character in-game with that name on any server. Cheers! :)

    .

  25. #125
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    A work of fiction, be it fantasy or science fiction, has a framework of internal logic. The better they are worked out, the more believable the world created by the author looks. And if during the process of getting acquainted with it you understand that heroes, peoples, states and territories had a past and will have a future, you understand that the world is not stuck only in the time period described in the book, it did not come from nowhere, woven from ill-fitting elements, but lives and changes, then the author was able to create a foundation that could become a landmark event and on the basis of which new works will appear. Arda is a perfect example of such a world. This world has a history, including the history of its inhabitants. Not all of them are described in detail, but a huge amount of work has been done. We can learn about their ancestors, about their ups and downs, about their technical and economic level, about the conditions under which they were formed. Including the natural conditions that affect not only the external differences between populations, but also the differences in their cultures. Is not this the essence of diversity? To observe how peoples emerge and develop under the influence of a multitude of factors, how they adapt to different conditions, notice the peculiarities of their traditions, appearance and behavior.

    And now back to discussing the changes to come. Wouldn't the best solution be to carefully and meticulously work through the various cultures and peoples that were not well described in the books and integrate them into the gameplay, thereby contributing to the expansion of the entire world within its internal logic? Why break the integrity of the world and turn the peoples that inhabit it into an analog of modern society (or rather, a part of society) that, for obvious reasons, is in completely different conditions than the inhabitants of Arda? These societies are not better or worse than each other, they are just different. It seems to me that this approach is the departure from diversity and creativity.
    Last edited by Rino90; Apr 17 2023 at 09:46 PM.

 

 
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