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  1. #251
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    Nov 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by TesalionLortus View Post
    Combine what we know of science (and history) with what Tolkien wrote regarding Third Age and Westerners specifically (and how peoples like Haradrim differed from them, for example), and there is your answer.
    No, that's the answer you've come up with. Mine differs.

    Quote Originally Posted by TesalionLortus View Post


    That does not tell me anything. You mean the place is diverse and not just the highest level of black? Which is something I pointed out myself posts above. That there are whites too? Clearly, and what does it have to do with anything said
    Exactly the point, what has it got to do with any of this? Why even bring it up?
    Sometimes, no matter how hard you look, there is no best light.


  2. #252
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    Nov 2012
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    13,146
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Because the world is very different nowadays, and you really need to turn the clock back. If you're having to trek around on foot, distance and natural barriers are a huge deal. Deserts, big rivers, mountains, seas. Availability of food and water. Knowing what's safe to eat and what isn't, once you're away from familiar surroundings. The climate of places you have to trek through (we all know about people dying of dehydration in deserts, or freezing to death while trying to cross mountains, or being swept to their deaths by flash floods, etc.). Other natural hazards, such as avalanches. The local wildlife, which may want to eat you, or may just attack you if it feels threatened, or may be just plain aggressive. Poisonous critters (snakes, scorpions, spiders). Disease (like the classic "You have died of dysentery"). And potentially worst of all, other people. Now they may be kind to strangers, but what if they aren't? Are there local customs or laws to deal with? What if the people and/or local regime are cruel? Will they let you pass, or turn you away, or do something awful to you - enslave you, kill you? Are there bandits? And all of this isn't going on in the real world either but one that features Sauron, and the rather unpleasant regimes run by the guys who follow him.

    Now obviously this would be far, far easier for some than others. Near Harad is quite nearby. So are parts of Rhun, although the nearer you got to the West the more vigilant and hostile Sauron's lot would be. However, once you start talking Far Harad or the far distant corners of the East then that'd be an epic trek (from months all the way up to years). From a storytelling perspective, that's only feasible if you can tell a good tale without contrivance. For comparison with RL: say it's meant to be 600 CE or so and you want to get a character in a story from either (a) China or (b) equatorial Africa all the way to the kingdom of Mercia, that's going to take a bit of doing. Heck, you could probably get a whole trilogy out of just that bit. And if they've managed to get through all that (or the equivalent in a fantasy world), from a gaming perspective it'd be tough to explain why they're still a n00b.

    So, a bit of push-back on what you said: why is it so difficult to understand that there are limits to what's feasible or sensible, and having everyone from everywhere turning up in Bree all at once is a bit much (or really, a lot much)?


    Yes, now, quite recently, and it's the exact same issue of SSG being offhand and casual in a way Turbine weren't. That's not really a rationale, it's effectively just saying "SSG can't be bothered to make sense any more so I shouldn't have to".
    It's feasible and sensible to me. Enough to make it work with some good RP stories anyway.

    As for the hobbits and recent game history, some I fight against, as was the case for magical hobbits. You win some, you lose some, for the sake of business. That one was lost. Now I champion for this one, not from a business sense, not from a sense of lore, but from a sense of diversity and inclusiveness and for all that is good in the world, something Tolkien supported. For the world I want to live in, out here in the real world.
    Sometimes, no matter how hard you look, there is no best light.


  3. #253
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    2,269
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnenna View Post
    Exactly the point, what has it got to do with any of this? Why even bring it up?
    Because you did? Anyway, feels a bit like you're looking for holes where none exist, and bringing stuff up (like that you don't know a thing about Africa) based on no grounds. Address directly everything I said and points I made, including the full context, otherwise there is little point. Back to the subject, yes, I too hope for origins, and I do think it IS about that - very much - because I happen to have a strong opinion they should have been there to begin with. As for the controversial name of the thread, I guess we'll see in future update and Umbar whether there are any signs of "huge changes," with the way how Umbar society and ethnicities will be portrayed. I certainly hope there are no retcons and the content is free of jarring inconsistencies.

  4. #254
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    6,276
    Since this conversation has turned to the skin color of various parts of the real-life world it has clearly outlived its value. Thread is now closed.
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