Dev Diary Feedback: The Rune-keeper Lore

[Sapience]

“The Minstrel sings words of Power and the Lore-master finds Power from ancient secrets, but there are more paths than these. The Rune-keeper joins the Free Peoples of Middle-earth, adding his unique skills to the fight against the Enemy.”

Read more from Brian “Zombie Columbus” Aloisio’s much-anticipated developer diary “The Rune-keeper” and post your comments here!

Please keep your comments focused on the lore elements of the class. If you'd like to discuss the gameplay of the Rune-keeper please use the Dev Diary Feedback: The Rune-keeper gameplay thread.

[KainXI]

I'm no lore buff, but I am curious to hear an explaination of how the rune keeper manages a skill like this:

http://au.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/lordof...l?sid=6197836#

To me it looks like lightning is shooting out of his fingers from nothing. However, even Gandalf himself said he doesn't have the ability to create fire from nothing (during their failed pass through the mountains one of the fellowship asked him to melt the ice).

[Morroval]

Will anyone from decision-maker dev team read this topic anyway?

What's being said is said in many topics, all of them locked... If there is a way to merge them, please do so...

[Gumawerian]

I'd like to start off with some suggestions based on what has been said so far:

1) Give the class a real weapon: The Free Peoples didn't go to war unnarmed no matter how great their power was, and Tolkien didn't use weapons that weren't based off of weapons from the real world. Unless the class can turn into a bear, I'd say a real weapon is a necessity.

2) Give some of the dps skills weapons-based animations: this only seems like a bad idea until you consider the base works: Tolkien's more "magical" heroes had impressive bearing and much of the power in battle was through force of arms: even Fingolfin, the High-King of the Noldor, wielded a sword and Gil-galad wielded a spear. To make the animations more "magical" would be easy: just have the runes on the weapons themselves and have the fire or flashes of light be "evoked" from the blade (this is a compromise here, but would be a huge help for me and many others, I believe).

3) Finally... and this is more lore-related... reconsider the need for traditional MMO concepts: I realize this is a much broader suggestion, but it has been raised several times on this thread, never mind many others: this is a game based on a setting that is very different from other fantasies. Trying to be more like other fantasies isn't really a good thing. I've heard from many other journalists that every MMO out there is basically trying to be more like World of Warcraft and they're right -- it doesn't make them applicable for mass-market -- it just makes them all the same.

To sum up as a personal note, I think the classes in this game should be inspired by Tolkien's work, not "repackaged" to look like it. This is my biggest criticism of the game: for a team that claims to love Tolkien's work, they seem more intent on forcing other fantasy elements into it, than creating something that's actually based on it.

[Cleitanious]

I don't agree with the Sith-lord class and enjoy arguing against it's existence. Does that mean I get my panties in a bunch? No, I don't wear panties first of all and second of all the Sith-lord doesn't really bother me, I just don't like it.

Stop quoting from unpublished sources, unpublished material isn't canon and much of it directly contradicts the actual canon lore. In unpublished works Frodo is a gnome named Bingo too, that doesn't mean that's canon. That means it's a rough draft. Tolkien also calls Celeborn "Teleporno" in unpublished works too.

Besides, in canon lore the gates of Moria's runes were inscribed by an Elf, not by Dwarves.

[Darth_Fleder]

I'd like to start off with some suggestions based on what has been said so far:

1) Give the class a real weapon: The Free Peoples didn't go to war unnarmed no matter how great their power was, and Tolkien didn't use weapons that weren't based off of weapons from the real world. Unless the class can turn into a bear, I'd say a real weapon is a necessity.

2) Give some of the dps skills weapons-based animations: this only seems like a bad idea until you consider the base works: Tolkien's more "magical" heroes had impressive bearing and much of the power in battle was through force of arms: even Fingolfin, the High-King of the Noldor, wielded a sword and Gil-galad wielded a spear. To make the animations more "magical" would be easy: just have the runes on the weapons themselves and have the fire or flashes of light be "evoked" from the blade (this is a compromise here, but would be a huge help for me and many others, I believe).

3) Finally... and this is more lore-related... reconsider the need for traditional MMO concepts: I realize this is a much broader suggestion, but it has been raised several times on this thread, never mind many others: this is a game based on a setting that is very different from other fantasies. Trying to be more like other fantasies isn't really a good thing. I've heard from many other journalists that every MMO out there is basically trying to be more like World of Warcraft and they're right -- it doesn't make them applicable for mass-market -- it just makes them all the same.

To sum up as a personal note, I think the classes in this game should be inspired by Tolkien's work, not "repackaged" to look like it. This is my biggest criticism of the game: for a team that claims to love Tolkien's work, they seem more intent on forcing other fantasy elements into it, than creating something that's actually based on it.

I am in 100% agreement with this post, very well said.

[Sapience]

I'm no lore buff, but I am curious to hear an explaination of how the rune keeper manages a skill like this:

http://au.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/lordof...l?sid=6197836#

To me it looks like lightning is shooting out of his fingers from nothing. However, even Gandalf himself said he doesn't have the ability to create fire from nothing (during their failed pass through the mountains one of the fellowship asked him to melt the ice).

That screen is a single frame from an animation that lasts about a second. Like most marketing screen shots it's a 'glam-shot' meant to make the skill look as eye-catching as possible. Seen in game it is far less dramatic. It also has a long cool down.

Will anyone from decision-maker dev team read this topic anyway?

What's being said is said in many topics, all of them locked... If there is a way to merge them, please do so...

It was actually at the request of the development team (as well as players) that we broke the feedback into two distinct threads.

As for the closed posts, it's pretty simple. We're trying to keep feedback in one place so the team can see it all in one glance. They have enough work to do getting Moria ready without having to track comments down across dozens of threads. Now we have two threads so they can easily check in on feedback about both aspects of the Rune-keeper.

Please help out by making your posts in the appropriate threads.

S.

[Cleitanious]

I'd like to start off with some suggestions based on what has been said so far:

1) Give the class a real weapon: The Free Peoples didn't go to war unnarmed no matter how great their power was, and Tolkien didn't use weapons that weren't based off of weapons from the real world. Unless the class can turn into a bear, I'd say a real weapon is a necessity.

2) Give some of the dps skills weapons-based animations: this only seems like a bad idea until you consider the base works: Tolkien's more "magical" heroes had impressive bearing and much of the power in battle was through force of arms: even Fingolfin, the High-King of the Noldor, wielded a sword and Gil-galad wielded a spear. To make the animations more "magical" would be easy: just have the runes on the weapons themselves and have the fire or flashes of light be "evoked" from the blade (this is a compromise here, but would be a huge help for me and many others, I believe).

3) Finally... and this is more lore-related... reconsider the need for traditional MMO concepts: I realize this is a much broader suggestion, but it has been raised several times on this thread, never mind many others: this is a game based on a setting that is very different from other fantasies. Trying to be more like other fantasies isn't really a good thing. I've heard from many other journalists that every MMO out there is basically trying to be more like World of Warcraft and they're right -- it doesn't make them applicable for mass-market -- it just makes them all the same.

To sum up as a personal note, I think the classes in this game should be inspired by Tolkien's work, not "repackaged" to look like it. This is my biggest criticism of the game: for a team that claims to love Tolkien's work, they seem more intent on forcing other fantasy elements into it, than creating something that's actually based on it.

Completely agree. Even Gandalf didn't enter a battle without a sword.

Ditch the rune melee weapon idea, make the rune a "class item" which adds bonuses to your equipped melee weapon and make the Sith-lord's skills melee skills instead of magical attacks.

That screen is a single frame from an animation that lasts about a second. Like most marketing screen shots it's a 'glam-shot' meant to make the skill look as eye-catching as possible. Seen in game it is far less dramatic. It also has a long cool down.

It was actually at the request of the development team (as well as players) that we broke the feedback into two distinct threads.

As for the closed posts, it's pretty simple. We'd like to keep all feedback in one place so the team can see it all in one glance. They have enough work to do getting Moria ready without having to track comments down across dozens of threads.

S.

I think you left out the part where the screen flashes and the camera shakes too. We have seen that same animation in videos.

[j0k3r238]

during their failed pass through the mountains one of the fellowship asked him to melt the ice

Im sorry, but ... is this true? Because I am almost certain Gandalf created fire (a magical blue fire at that) in the Hobbit.

Hopefully, if true, it was meant as an, 'i dont have the power to melt the entire mountain.'

From previous thread:

Not even close. Something as mundane as a wooden spoon does not need to be mentioned to know it could exist, where as something as notable as Sith-Lords would have been mentioned if it existed.

So Runes were never mentioned? There is no basis on the class? Or are you nitpicking it for its specific powers? Because im sure there are a few classes that all have some ability never mentioned in the books. Or is the RK a special case to you because you’re of the opinion that magic in Middle Earth is taboo?

And what makes you think it HAS to be mentioned. Take the previous example on the battle of Fongolfin vs. Morgoth. Ok ... he didn’t cast any magic in that battle. Is that somehow implying the Morgoth had no such power? Morgoth, who had part in the very creation of Middle Earth, is of a higher god-like rank than Gandalf and Sauron, and is basically the representation this destructive magic, did not cast any magic. Are you saying that this ‘god’ did not at the very least have the power to do as Gandalf did to many of his foes? By that logic above one can say that Morgoth, the creator of (or at least of the same power of those that did) lightning and fire could not do such things.

[Cleitanious]

Im sorry, but ... is this true? Because I am almost certain Gandalf created fire (a magical blue fire at that) in the Hobbit.

Hopefully, if true, it was meant as an, 'i dont have the power to melt the entire mountain.'

Gandalf used the Ring of Fire which was given to him by Cirdan the Shipwright, Gandalf was also a Maiar.

[SiSL]

From CEO down to entire Dev Team know it "breaks" the lore, beyond stretching, nothing in Lore that supports such class or actions to masses. There is no logical explanations of animations and descriptions beyond "We want to squeeze other RPG's mages into box" however, while decision is purely weak, animations and descriptions are insult to injury.

You want to have "ranged DPS / Healer" class? Fine... You could have tens of other ways to make it believable and respectful to Lore, but you have chosen to make it Lightning Bolts and Fire balls. You can do entire class without needing "magic" at all with same usebility, same system, role and "fun". But you have chosen not to. While our anger is not towards the dev team or Turbine themselves, entire marketing, risk management decision-makers seems to be in less realistic world than Middle-Earth.

We feel betrayed... You would not trust a company or developers no matter how they are talented when you feel betrayed and no will left to continue to pay. While a dev confessing entire reason behind it might ease our pain, it would not stop us leaving. One thing developers and decision-makers need to understand: We have chosen to play your game, because it was Middle-Earth. Not because all the flashy effects, not because it has MMO elements which are not superior to rest of games, at best they are even level. Main reason we have chosen your game is: "Lord of the Rings"... If we were avarage game player who enjoys such low-level flashy additions, there would be lots of other games to choose from. We are here because it WAS Lord of the Rings, and more fluid transition of an MMORPG to Lord of the Rings that we can be part of...

Your classes so far, did their best. There is no reason not to believe music inspiring people in combat like in real world Bards, Ministrels or Troubadours. Even improving people's morale with our iPods today while we are doing boring repetitive tasks in our daily lives. There was no reason not to believe conjuror of cheap tricks like in real worlds illusionists. No reason not to believe swords and boards still been discovered, used and inspired, just like Tolkien did. There was no reason not to believe in Middle-Earth might be TRUE once even most of us believe very similiar stories of all major religions. There is no reason not to believe in Captains who fired the people's hearts into battle even to their death without fear. There is no reason not to believe in dual-wielding, having helper animal friends to be true said in many stories...

Rune-keeper, while words might be powerful into people's hearts with lightning damage and lightning bolts from their fingertips however, are not one of these. We did not ask you to change how your class work, we did not ask you how your class act. We did not ask you not to make it healer glass-canon, We wanted it to adapt to Middle-Earth since the very first glimpses appeared. We asked you not to look like a mage. We asked you not to make it unbelievable in Middle-Earth standards. Like there is no Prophet-miracle people around us, we would not like it and in massive numbers in our gaming world as well, keep it "special"

Even though our hearts are broken with broken lore and broken promises at same time, we still want to continue to pay to Turbine. We still have hope for that because we know you can do it without "magic", we know you can do it without lightnings and fireballs.

[Jarel]

Um, I agree with SiSL

[Castegyre]

1) Give the class a real weapon: The Free Peoples didn't go to war unnarmed no matter how great their power was, and Tolkien didn't use weapons that weren't based off of weapons from the real world. Unless the class can turn into a bear, I'd say a real weapon is a necessity.

I mentioned this in the old thread but I think the flood of bickering drowned it out. There is already a workable animation set to allow both in the game I think. The Defiler has a gourd in one hand and beats things with a stick in the other. Couldn't this be a basis for the RK to do the same basic thing but with a rock and a stick? It would be a lot more fitting and less silly, imo.

I saw a WAR video they released months ago showing how they could re-skin different wire frame model skeletons with different mob skins and mix and match the animations. I know LotRO is not WAR, but would it be so hard for the devs to do the same for the RK?

[Cubrethil]

Im sorry, but ... is this true? Because I am almost certain Gandalf created fire (a magical blue fire at that) in the Hobbit.

Hopefully, if true, it was meant as an, 'i dont have the power to melt the entire mountain.'

When they are trapped on Caradhras Legolas asks Gandalf to melt the snow so they can move in the pass. Gandalf replies that he cannot make fire out of nothing that he needs something to burn. He also tell Legolas that if elves could fly he could go and fetch the sun to melt the snow. (or something along those lines)

[Cleitanious]

Im sorry, but ... is this true? Because I am almost certain Gandalf created fire (a magical blue fire at that) in the Hobbit.

Hopefully, if true, it was meant as an, 'i dont have the power to melt the entire mountain.'

From previous thread:




So Runes were never mentioned? There is no basis on the class? Or are you nitpicking it for its specific powers? Because im sure there are a few classes that all have some ability never mentioned in the books. Or is the RK a special case to you because you’re of the opinion that magic in Middle Earth is taboo?

And what makes you think it HAS to be mentioned. Take the previous example on the battle of Fongolfin vs. Morgoth. Ok ... he didn’t cast any magic in that battle. Is that somehow implying the Morgoth had no such power? Morgoth, who had part in the very creation of Middle Earth, is of a higher god-like rank than Gandalf and Sauron, and is basically the representation this destructive magic, did not cast any magic. Are you saying that this ‘god’ did not at the very least have the power to do as Gandalf did to many of his foes? By that logic above one can say that Morgoth, the creator of (or at least of the same power of those that did) lightning and fire could not do such things.

Something as incredible as lightning shooting elves would be mentioned if such a thing existed, that's my point. Morgoth having power was mentioned in several places in several books. No it wasnt mentioned every time he was mentioned but it was mentioned and we don't assume it, we know it because that's what it says.

Rune-keepers are not mentioned anywhere and there is nothing to even base them off of.

[Morroval]

Im sorry, but ... is this true? Because I am almost certain Gandalf created fire (a magical blue fire at that) in the Hobbit.

Hopefully, if true, it was meant as an, 'i dont have the power to melt the entire mountain.'

So Runes were never mentioned? There is no basis on the class? Or are you nitpicking it for its specific powers? Because im sure there are a few classes that all have some ability never mentioned in the books. Or is the RK a special case to you because you’re of the opinion that magic in Middle Earth is taboo?

And what makes you think it HAS to be mentioned. Take the previous example on the battle of Fongolfin vs. Morgoth. Ok ... he didn’t cast any magic in that battle. Is that somehow implying the Morgoth had no such power? Morgoth, who had part in the very creation of Middle Earth, is of a higher god-like rank than Gandalf and Sauron, and is basically the representation this destructive magic, did not cast any magic. Are you saying that this ‘god’ did not at the very least have the power to do as Gandalf did to many of his foes? By that logic above one can say that Morgoth, the creator of (or at least of the same power of those that did) lightning and fire could not do such things.

When you read more, you realise how Tolkien loved to make his tale believable...

"If Gandalf would go before us with a bright flame, he might melt a path for you," said Legolas. The storm had troubled him little, and alone of the Company remained still light of heart.

"If Elves could fly over mountains, they might fetch the Sun to save us," answered Gandalf. "But I must have something to work on. I cannot burn snow."

"Well," said Boromir, "when heads are at a loss bodies must serve, as we say in my country. The strongest of us must seek a way. See! Though all is now snow-clad, our path, as we came up, turned about that shoulder of rock down yonder. It was there that the snow first began to burden us. If we could reach that point, maybe it would prove easier beyond. It is no more than a furlong off, I guess."

And to your second point:

Gandalf casted his powers without runes, thus he was a Maiar, God-level you might think. However, while we are unnamed Heroes of Middle-Earth, we are NOT able to reach this power. If Legolas (an Elf-prince) could, he would...

Runes are mentioned in Middle-Earth as power cast into creativity of the makers, Elves, into weapons. Not lightning bolts from far... Runes gave "Weapons" their powers... Not the wielder... Not to themselves.... Gandalf used Rune on a stone to mark "when he left Weathertop", just like we write "date" on our letters, not he wrote it to make lightnings or heal anyone. Runes (letters of old) has been used on many weapons to give some bravery to wielder, that was nothing different than praying before and definitely not wielding lightning bolts except stars when a morning star hit on the head.

[DYMongoose]

Im sorry, but ... is this true? Because I am almost certain Gandalf created fire (a magical blue fire at that) in the Hobbit.

Hopefully, if true, it was meant as an, 'i dont have the power to melt the entire mountain.'

His exact quote is "I cannot burn the snow", meaning he can create fire, but fire requires fuel to burn.

[vicknoda]

I am both a huge MMO and LotRO fan. I love this game and was very happy to hear about the RK as I would finally have my favorite class type in the game. The glass canon mage class. So far I have had very little problems with anything Turbine has done. Perhaps I am not the purist that some are but I have no problem with the Drakes, especially since with the exception of Trollshaws (what is the deal with that anyway) they were restricted to specific areas that, based upon the knowledge that Drakes were in the Northern Dwarf regions, seemed fitting to me. I have no problem with the LM and I shrugged the AoE lightning and the Ent spirit as being visual representation of the power being used. I was truly excited to see how Turbine did this class.

Now this Sith Lord picture. Despite the assurances that it is a short animation with a long cool down time it is much harder to explain lightning from someones finger tips then lightning from the sky. All in all I liked what I saw, the pictures of the RK with runes around him were exactly what I was hoping to see. However the people in Marketing have to know how worried that one shot is making people, even myself. I don't agree with most, I think this game can have mass market appeal. I believe that because I believe that Middle Earth has mass market appeal. LotR is one of the highest selling books in the history of the world. However its appeal has to come from Middle Earth, not from a stock fantasy setting.

I have to wonder what the Marketing team believes if they thought that picture was a good idea to publish. It makes me wonder if they have the same understanding of the nature of this game and its fan base that I believe the devs do. And I have to wonder why the devs decided to put such a move in the game. Most important I have to wonder if there are more moves like this. I can live with that one, but if the RK is full of flashy over the top moves I will not end up playing it. I know it may not mean much to the game or to the company. I do not plan on leaving. I will not call up arms. But it means a lot to me, that I will not play my favorite class archetype, due to a poor design scheme done to impress the masses. Turbine, you guys have to realize the correct way to go about marketing if you want to grow is to market to the public, not just your fan base. This game doesn't need flashy wizards to impress the masses, it just needs the masses to know it exists.

[PyrateLV]

Take the previous example on the battle of Fongolfin vs. Morgoth. Ok ... he didn’t cast any magic in that battle. Is that somehow implying the Morgoth had no such power? Morgoth, who had part in the very creation of Middle Earth, is of a higher god-like rank than Gandalf and Sauron, and is basically the representation this destructive magic, did not cast any magic. Are you saying that this ‘god’ did not at the very least have the power to do as Gandalf did to many of his foes? By that logic above one can say that Morgoth, the creator of (or at least of the same power of those that did) lightning and fire could not do such things.

What Morgoth did or didnt do is irrelevant.
We (our player characters) are not him. We are not Maiar . We are not even 1st age like Galadriel.
We are end of the 3rd age where magic has all but vanished.
Even if some character bios claim they are 1st or 2nd age, they still wouldnt have the ability to wield the power that Morgoth, Sauron, Gandalf or Galadriel can.

[DYMongoose]

What Morgoth did or didnt do is irrelevant.
We (our player characters) are not him. We are not Maiar . We are not even 1st age like Galadriel.
We are end of the 3rd age where magic has all but vanished.
Even if some character bios claim they are 1st or 2nd age, they still wouldnt have the ability to wield the power that Morgoth, Sauron, Gandalf or Galadriel can.

Not to mention that Galadriel has a Ring of Power...

[logothesia]

I'd just like to say that I disagree completely with the Fundamentalist interpretation of Tolkien's works taken by some on this board. Their position seems to be that if it isn't supported by a "canon" of text, then it can't be in the game. I believe this method of interpretation is invalid because Tolkien himself wanted to create a mythology for others to build on. In addition, Tolkien's works considered part of the "canon" contain internal inconsistencies.

The proper way to interpret Tolkien is as a deep and fertile ground from which to grow the mythology. This is where I think Turbine excels, especially with classes like the Loremaster and Runekeeper.

The thing to remember is that the plants that I or Turbine might cultivate from this fertile ground will be different from the ones others might cultivate. This is fine, and its good to have such differences. What's bad is when others set themselves up as the keepers of the Holy Canon, and refuse to allow the free growth of the mythology that Tolkien founded.

This game is just one of many expressions of Tolkien's ground-laying work, one which I and many others enjoy. I think the Runekeeper fits well within the framework that he provided, especially his emphasis on the power of words (which is a very ancient idea). My reading of his books convinces me that "magic" was around, though fading and weakened.

Another fallacy I'd like to correct is the use of Gandalf the Maiar as the limit to what is possible for free peoples magic wise. The Maiar were endowed with exceptional power in themselves and given a direct injunction not to use such power overtly. This is different from common elves and dwarves, who do not have the same direct injunction and are essentially free agents (or at least, freer than the Maiar). As free agents, they are free to manipulate the magic in the world for good or evil.

[Drakkonus]

For me there is only two problems really-

1. The name is not found in the lore like all the other classes. Also its silly.

2. Unlike the LRM, who is based on Gandalf's fireworks and light and fire lore and animal befriending, RK have no counter part who did any of its skills in the books. And the Lady didn't use rune she used... water. So She can't be the lore counter part. She was not said to be a date healer in the books nore a lightning caster And if its not in LOTR or TH its not covered by Turbines IP so any other places where there are runecasters or what not can't be used to base the class.

[mahjani]

Just for consistency's sake, here is a link to the old official rune-keeper thread with over 2000 posts of discussion. It seems odd that there are new official threads for this and old threads keep being closed, so I wanted to put this here for anyone who might want to see what other people have said thus far: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=156683

[Yaaraer]

First, I'm not some whiny kid. I'm 50 years old (well soon enough) and Lord of the Rings is one of the most revered and loved books in the WORLD. Rune keeper as is, is a slap to all those that grew up enjoying the story on it's own merits. It does NOT exist in the story, it is lore breaking. Even Jeffrey Steefel said so. The fact it does not matter shows Turbine is not interested in the lore anymore. They want money and that is all they care about. Which as business goes is the norm. My gripe is Turbine not being honest enough to admit it. As I said with the advent of RK's the statement "We did it to comply with the lore aspects of the game" is forever mute.

Admit that and I'm good to go, to say anything else, is just not being honest.

Just once I wish a company would have the intestinal fortitude to say "Sales are not as good as we'd like, so we're introducing a new class that is not in keeping with the lore, to try and draw in the players from other games that want glass cannons and don't care about the story. We need their money to survive." This kind of honesty would stand the business world on it's ear and bring integrity and character back.

But I'll go to my grave before that happens..

Turbine, just choose your words more carefully in the future. Don't make blanket statements like "PvMP will never effect PVE", or "We did it for lore reasons", etc.. Then you won't need to take them back later. If the responsibility of producing a game that has a strict cannon is too difficult, don't try. Look at SWG, the canon was very clear, yet they broke it over and over, and will forever be remembered for the wrong reasons.

That said I'm done, and out. Nothing I can add to this is going to make a difference. You've added the class, you've talked about it to press agencies and it's going to happen. If all those involved can do so and feel they have done their job to preserve the lore aspects then what can I say, I only read the books. What do I know...

A final plea, please do not ruin the story and it's meaning to all those that love it, by wrecking it with more fantasy based classes that have absolutely no place in Tolkiens world. Be the champion of Middle Earth, and give Sauron the bumms rush..

[BIGeyedBUG]

Im sorry, but ... is this true? Because I am almost certain Gandalf created fire (a magical blue fire at that) in the Hobbit.

The quote from the LOTR was explained above. As for The Hobbit, there's only about four real references that I can think of to his use of what we'd call destructive magic. Two of them he explicitly uses pre-existing materials: a bonfire in one, pine cones in the other. One or two others (The "blinding flashes".) don't go into any detail, so it's hard to say. But even there there is the provacative mention of the smell of gunpowder, which in itself wouldn't be that interesting if we didn't already associate Gandalf with fireworks.

The one that's the closest to a smoking gun (haha) though, is when the goblins have decided to burn Gandalf and his companions out of the trees. Then we get the following: "The sudden splendour flashed from his wand like lightning, as he got ready to spring down from on high right among the spears of the goblins. That would have been the end of him, though he probably would have killed many of them as he came hurtling down like a thunderbolt."

Even that quote isn't as straightforward as it could be, but even if he is using blatant destructive magic from nothing there (Rather than, say, by hitting the self-destruct button on his wand. ) I think it's telling that he only does it as his last effort and when he no longer has any hope of survival.

Of course, even if we accept that quote as outright proof that he could produce destructive energies from nothing, Gandalf is essentially an Angelic being who has "made a special study of bewitchments with fire and lights," and who also happens to possess the Ring of Fire, so then we get back into the whole question of how appropriate it is for our characters to be able to spam similar abilities based on Gandalf doing so.

Or, since that's already been done multiple times, we could truthfully say instead, "Let's not and say we did."