TTC Question 2 responses, pages 1-14

[Barruktp]

And the winner is...

Mounted Combat!!! Yay...

Here is the full list of concepts that had multiple suggestions from pages 1-14. Grats to Hayoo on coming up with an original concept that a lot of people really want included.

Mounted combat: 29
Don’t know / change nothing / blank: 18
New hobbies / minigames: 18
Mentoring system (or similar): 13
Kinship / social related: 10
Other PVMP or PVP related: 9
Character customization: 8
World events / random events: 7
PVMP skirmishes: 7
Hayoo’s ideas (tavern revelies): 6
Collision mechanics: 6
Instance / raid scaling: 5
Housing / storage related: 5
Crafting related: 5
Mount customization: 5
UI related: 5
Cross server instancing: 4
Combat system overhaul: 3
Player created quests/content: 3

Itemization related: 2
Graphics fixes: 2
Session play: 2
BOA changes: 2

Oh and a further bit about mounted combat... It has been suggested that linking Rohan with with an expectation of mounted combat inclusion is a logical fallacy. The only thing I can reference in reply is the meaning of the word: Rohan means "land of the horse lords" in Sindarin.

[ericlewis]

And the winner is...

Mounted Combat!!! Yay...

Here is the full list of concepts that had multiple suggestions from pages 1-14. Grats to Hayoo on coming up with an original concept that a lot of people really want included.

Mounted combat: 29
Don’t know / change nothing / blank: 18
New hobbies / minigames: 18
Mentoring system (or similar): 13
Kinship / social related: 10
Other PVMP or PVP related: 9
Character customization: 8
World events / random events: 7
PVMP skirmishes: 7
Hayoo’s ideas (tavern revelies): 6
Collision mechanics: 6
Instance / raid scaling: 5
Housing / storage related: 5
Crafting related: 5
Mount customization: 5
UI related: 5
Cross server instancing: 4
Combat system overhaul: 3
Player created quests/content: 3

Itemization related: 2
Graphics fixes: 2
Session play: 2
BOA changes: 2

Oh and a further bit about mounted combat... It has been suggested that linking Rohan with with an expectation of mounted combat inclusion is a logical fallacy. The only thing I can reference in reply is the meaning of the word: Rohan means "land of the horse lords" in Sindarin.

And you really thing they are going to listen?? We had posts on LI, radiance and PVMP and they turned a death ear to it. Nothing not even one thing has been said. I have to wonder why folks thing they actually listing to these things.

[Barruktp]

And you really thing they are going to listen?? We had posts on LI, radiance and PVMP and they turned a death ear to it. Nothing not even one thing has been said. I have to wonder why folks thing they actually listing to these things.

Meh.... one can always hope.

Personally I think Turbine is recognizing that LI's, rad, and PVMP are serious shortcomings in the game that players want addressed. The last couple TTC threads have been more along the lines of "OK we know about these issues, what else would you like to see addressed in the game?" They have gathered data, and then if they are indeed "Powered by their fans" then they will do something about it.

[mjk47]

And you really thing they are going to listen?? We had posts on LI, radiance and PVMP and they turned a death ear to it. Nothing not even one thing has been said. I have to wonder why folks thing they actually listing to these things.

I think your expectation of timescales in these matters is a bit off. They aren't going to make a public statement until they have any changes implemented and tested. Turbine has learned that the way to manage expectation is not to make vague forward-looking statements as they only get micro-dissected to death and get rearranged into reinforcing whatever conforms to the reader's personal prejudices. That way lies danger.If you are "damned if you do and damned if you don't", it is probably better to maintain silence as long as possible.

I do expect to see changes in at least LIs and radiance, but I don't expect to hear about them for months yet. (I don't PvMP, so I haven't been paying attention there, but to me the prima facie evidence is that something may happen there as well.)

If you think it through, running a TTCT thread on "what changes would you like to see to X" is the start of the process. What do you expect them to say in the short term? There are only 2 real choices:

1. "We're going to do nothing" - Cue for immediate firestorm.

2. "We're going to do something as yet unspecified" - Cue for rampant speculation, most of which will turn out to be wrong and the source of future disappointment.

If it was me doing the asking, I would not ask until I had some ideas of how I could change things, and would then be looking at the responses to see how well my possible solution might match up to people's expectations. If there is a good match, full speed ahead on implementation and testing. If not, then back to the drawing board. The worst case is if it turns out that people's expectations are completely at odds with anything I know to be possible. In that case we are all hosed, and I can either leave things as they are, or make the changes I know are possible and hope that they are perceived as an improvement. Much crossing of digits all round.

So, I will possess my soul in patience, and not a little hope, and see what may transpire over the next 6-9 months. Changing a software project the size of LotRo is like turning a supertanker - you plan the turns carefully so as not to break its back buy putting on too much rudder.

[Northwoods]

And you really thing they are going to listen?? We had posts on LI, radiance and PVMP and they turned a death ear to it. Nothing not even one thing has been said. I have to wonder why folks thing they actually listing to these things.

They listen, but the wheels turn slowly when you actually have to develop things. It's easy for a player to offer a suggestion, but more often than not player suggestions would end up being game breaking if done as suggested. Players go after the "wouldn't it be cool" ideas and don't usually consider how those ideas would affect things outside of the system they want to see changed. Turbine has to consider the consequences, and whatever change they make can't break other things. Keeping the balance isn't easy.

[Fionnuala]

Personally, in this particular situation, I hope they don't listen. Sure, lots of people want mounted combat. I expect if it ever is implemented it will go over about as well as LIs.

[Mithrandir3]

Personally, in this particular situation, I hope they don't listen. Sure, lots of people want mounted combat. I expect if it ever is implemented it will go over about as well as LIs.

The only reason LI's went over badly is because it was implemented badly. I don't know a single person who agrees with the moniker "legendary". It's just utterly ridiculous that we grind up more "legendary" weapons than we actually use. The most common fix I see people ask for is making LI's more like skirmish soldiers. It would probably go a very long way towards placating the complaints.

[IowaHawk]

The only reason LI's went over badly is because it was implemented badly. I don't know a single person who agrees with the moniker "legendary". It's just utterly ridiculous that we grind up more "legendary" weapons than we actually use. The most common fix I see people ask for is making LI's more like skirmish soldiers. It would probably go a very long way towards placating the complaints.

Placating the complaints? Of who? The nominally substantive group of noisy forum goers?

Heck, they could fix LIs, give you a massive landmass Rohan, mounted combat, remove radiance gating, upgrade housing and PVP, and the same 30 or so of the whiners would still be here, only complaining about something else.

[KainXI]

Placating the complaints? Of who? The nominally substantive group of noisy forum goers?

Heck, they could fix LIs, give you a massive landmass Rohan, mounted combat, remove radiance gating, upgrade housing and PVP, and the same 30 or so of the whiners would still be here, only complaining about something else.

Doubtful. I never complained about anything in game until they added LIs and radiance. Then I only complained about them until they added a buggy unrewarding raid and a level cap raise without substantative character development, at which time I started complaining about them.

Some people are actually very happy with the game until Turbine does things that make them less happy.

[Maxal]

I think folks do not realize that they have been listening. Have you not noticed in the last few Ask the Community, they ask please tell us what you wish except for X, Y, Z.

What has X, Y and Z been: LIs, PvP and Housing.

Myself as a marketing professional knows that once you listen to enough suggestions, comments, praise and complaints from your customers you try and make adjustments to your product. Since they are saying we do not wish to hear about X, Y, Z this means thay have decided more or less what to do about these issues.

I am not saying they will do anything because doing nothing is also a decision on what to do about an product issue. This is something most people do not realise. A decision to make no changes is still a decision.

For example, I think this has happened on housing several times, but some of us still hope for changes.

I also agree with IowaHawk. If they fixed everything some folks would still complain no matter what. There will be folks who will always flame just because...it is human nature. Being a vet, I know if the troops are not complaining, it means there is a major problem!

[KainXI]

I also agree with IowaHawk. If they fixed everything some folks would still complain no matter what. There will be folks who will always flame just because...it is human nature. Being a vet, I know if the troops are not complaining, it means there is a major problem!

SOME people will always complain, but it would certainly be less (at least one less )

[Sapience]

I think folks do not realize that they have been listening. Have you not noticed in the last few Ask the Community, they ask please tell us what you wish except for X, Y, Z.

What has X, Y and Z been: LIs, PvP and Housing.

Myself as a marketing professional knows that once you listen to enough suggestions, comments, praise and complaints from your customers you try and make adjustments to your product. Since they are saying we do not wish to hear about X, Y, Z this means thay have decided more or less what to do about these issues.

I am not saying they will do anything because doing nothing is also a decision on what to do about an product issue. This is something most people do not realise. A decision to make no changes is still a decision.

For example, I think this has happened on housing several times, but some of us still hope for changes.

I also agree with IowaHawk. If they fixed everything some folks would still complain no matter what. There will be folks who will always flame just because...it is human nature. Being a vet, I know if the troops are not complaining, it means there is a major problem!

Actually the X,Y, Z are Lengendary Items (they had their own topic recently), Radiance Gear (it had its own topic recently), and PvMP (it had its own topic just last week). Housing is fair game in the current Community Team Thread.

Remember, this is one form of feedback. Usually the most vocal but often the smallest pool of replies. This type of thread, started 7 hours after a question has been asked, is a bit like telling us you want us to base all of our decisions on the replies of the first few dozen posters and ignore everything else. I don't think that would really be a good way to go about things, do you?

[KainXI]

This type of thread, started 7 hours after a question has been asked, is a bit like telling us you want us to base all of our decisions on the replies of the first few dozen posters and ignore everything else. I don't think that would really be a good way to go about things, do you?

That depends, I was in the first few dozen replies this time so I would say it sounds like a great way

[Fionnuala]

The only reason LI's went over badly is because it was implemented badly.

What I mean is that looking back at how well LIs turned out, I have no confidence that Turbine could implement Mounted Combat well. I would rather they didn't even try.

[Barruktp]

I don't think that would really be a good way to go about things, do you?

Nope it isn't. I am sure you guys have all sorts of nifty ways of keeping track of response data and weighing it against other forms of feedback

The point of this thread was more to communicate to the regular forum posters what the spread was on responses so far. I have no illusions or expectations about any of the things actually being implemented.
As I stated just the other day, I feel revamping LI's, rad, and releasing more landmass are the most important things for the long term health of the game. 2 out of those 3 have had their own TTC topics recently, so that is pretty in-synch with what Turbine is seeing with community concerns.

Anyway, I will update the post this afternoon to reflect the status of the TTC responses at that point. It will be interesting to see if there has been any shift in response types.

[Macbeth]

This type of thread, started 7 hours after a question has been asked, is a bit like telling us you want us to base all of our decisions on the replies of the first few dozen posters and ignore everything else. I don't think that would really be a good way to go about things, do you?

My answer was in the first TEN replies...what more info do you guys need??? Srsly.

[Graythandor]

I just can't get over how many people's top priority appears to be housing decorations.

Like, do these people stand around in their virtual house all day looking at stuff?? Is that REALLY where they think Turbine should spend their obviously limited development resources? Not instances, no. Not new raids, not even new gear or crafting. Decorations? Lamps and rugs. Really? lol

I think I must be playing a different game than these people.

[Fionnuala]

I just can't get over how many people's top priority appears to be housing decorations.

Like, do these people stand around in their virtual house all day looking at stuff?? Is that REALLY where they think Turbine should spend their obviously limited development resources? Not instances, no. Not new raids, not even new gear or crafting. Decorations? Lamps and rugs. Really? lol

I think I must be playing a different game than these people.

You might like it if you tried it.

[Sapience]

I just can't get over how many people's top priority appears to be housing decorations.

Like, do these people stand around in their virtual house all day looking at stuff?? Is that REALLY where they think Turbine should spend their obviously limited development resources? Not instances, no. Not new raids, not even new gear or crafting. Decorations? Lamps and rugs. Really? lol

I think I must be playing a different game than these people.

I think what it shows is that people play this game for many different reasons and derive their enjoyment in an equally diverse manner. From a certain point of view, they do play a 'different game'. It's all in the approach. I personally consider it one of our great strengths that such diversity is available in our game!

[Graythandor]

I think what it shows is that people play this game for many different reasons and derive their enjoyment in an equally diverse manner. From a certain point of view, they do play a 'different game'. It's all in the approach. I personally consider it one of our great strengths that such diversity is available in our game!

I would agree with that.

I just don't want to see precious resources spent on redecorating housing when there are integral gameplay issues that so desperately need attention.

[KainXI]

I would agree with that.

I just don't want to see precious resources spent on redecorating housing when there are integral gameplay issues that so desperately need attention.

Well for some people housing is depserately in need of attention

I'm not one of them, just saying that it is all a matter of perspective. Also the question asked about game "systems" that need an overhaul. Raiding, as a system and barring radiance, doesn't need an overhaul IMHO. It needs better loot and more content, but that's now what they were asking for.

[Barruktp]

I would agree with that.

I just don't want to see precious resources spent on redecorating housing when there are integral gameplay issues that so desperately need attention.

That is why I am glad Turbine's decision making process is opaque to the players. All we can say is "I think it would be cool to have this", or "That part of the game needs an overhaul". Only they can answer as to how any change affects their resources and how it interacts/conflicts with what else they have in the works.

Edit: Except in the case of the T3 BG set and SOM LI implementation. Those releases have caused a lot of problems with the player community and we have never received adequate explanation from Turbine.

[Graythandor]

That is why I am glad Turbine's decision making process is opaque to the players. All we can say is "I think it would be cool to have this", or "That part of the game needs an overhaul". Only they can answer as to how any change affects their resources and how it interacts/conflicts with what else they have in the works.

Edit: Except in the case of the T3 BG set and SOM LI implementation. Those releases have caused a lot of problems with the player community and we have never received adequate explanation from Turbine.

Yeah, that's sort of where I was going with my line of thought. It's obvious that massive resources were put into developing the skirmish system, and as a result there was a lack of resources to adequately consider & develop the SoM LI system and raid. I'm just cautioning against people clamoring too much over "silly" (yes, I realize that's just one person's opinion) things like housing and festivals when there is an obvious shortage of resources.

[Fereleth]

Yeah, that's sort of where I was going with my line of thought. It's obvious that massive resources were put into developing the skirmish system, and as a result there was a lack of resources to adequately consider & develop the SoM LI system and raid. I'm just cautioning against people clamoring too much over "silly" (yes, I realize that's just one person's opinion) things like housing and festivals when there is an obvious shortage of resources.

It might have something to do also with the fact that the question started with "Excluding, PvMP, Legendary Items and Radiance gear...." In the absence of those topics, it doesn't surprise me that a game system like housing might predominate the replies.

Housing can be a rather hotly contested system with merits on both sides of the argument. With limited resources, it's understandable that some folks want the focus on what are arguably core systems (e.g., raids, combat, itemization, etc.). At the same time, some players might fear that IF the improvements to those core systems would be modest and not comprehensive (e.g., future expansions are basically only SoM with some nominal improvements), then they might just prefer those limited resources be allocated once-in-a-while to overhaul some diversionary systems like housing or hobbies for something else to do.

Just a thought.

[Barruktp]

Updated through page 27:

I split off some specific ideas that were getting more repeats, for example map annotation was split out of UI upgrades.

Mounted combat: 54
New hobbies / minigames: 28
Kinship / social related: 24
Don’t know / change nothing / blank: 24
Crafting related: 20
Mentoring system (or similar): 16
Other PVMP or PVP related:15
Character customization: 15
World events / random events: 14
Housing / storage related: 12
Hayoo’s ideas (tavern revelies): 10
Instance / raid scaling: 10
Mount customization: 10
PVMP skirmishes: 9
UI related: 7
Cross server instancing: 6
Collision mechanics: 6
Player created quests/content: 5
Graphics upgrade: 4
BOA changes: 4
LI/IXP related: 4
In-game calendar: 4
XP reducing: 4
Boating: 4
Map annotations: 4
Combat system overhaul: 4
New class/traits: 2
Armour plugins: 3
Itemization related: 2
Session play: 2
Soldiers available in PvE: 2
Creep PvE: 2
CJ related: 2
Historical skirmishes: 2
AH related: 2