Turtle problems

[EldarQuendi]

I ran turtle last night with a pug group and 4 times in a row we had group wipe before we even got him to half health. Our healers were saying that the group wide damage was ridiculous and they don't remember it being nearly as difficult or even having to focus on the group nearly as much in the past. I was just wondering if anyone else has ran turtle yet and was having the same problem or maybe it was just an awful pug run. Bug? Or WAI?

[ANewMachine]

It's definitely MUCH harder. At least from my perspective running as a tank, here's what I saw:
-The acid bleed starts out at 1,150. This used to be when we'd swap aggro. As it was, we let it get to about 3.5K before the other tank Engaged off of me.
-After the acid bleed expires, a 10-minute unremovable acid bleed applies. The text was something like "You have removed the barb, but the wound still festers" - this may be the group-wide damage people were talking about, now that I think about it. I recall a text-popup along the lines of "the turtle shoots its shell out in explosive shards" or the like. Maybe the acid bleed comes after that? Not sure. Either way, it's still unremovable and lasts forever.

So yeah. Very different. We called it a night after 2 runs, declaring that the Turtle was no longer the easy 1A farming place.

[TheFrank]

Sounds like dots from some raid bosses are borked. We had the Blind One one-shoting people during his first phase with eyes.

[EldarQuendi]

It seemed like we were doing much less damage as well, and Ive heard some saying that they are getting much fewer crits now. So defenses may have been increased. I was wondering if maybe with the fix to the way damage and defense is calculated to fix lm's and burg's debuffs maybe mobs (esp. Bosses and elites) damage and defenses have increased from reorganizing the order in which they are calculated.

[SaintBass]

Ran the rift 6 man skirmish. Saw a couple of one-shots from the "eyes" that the Courage Breaker LT applies to a player 5k and 8K damage. Also saw some pretty nasty acid DoTs in the Great Barrows Maze. So yeah, seems like an oddball bug with DoTs and status effect expiration.

[yurick75]

Got one shotted in Defence of the Prancing Pony last night in a 6 man. Not sure on the name but it was the Blue shade LT that did it. Was at full health and then bang I was dead. Havnt come across this one before as havnt done to many group skirmishes so not sure if this is normal for this LT or not.

[rawlingsst7]

Hmm. I wonder if it could be related to the Debuff fix math.

When Mirkwood introduced Offense Ratings (which affected all DoTs based on those damage categories, i.e. Barbed Arrow bleed scales with Ranged Offense Rating) we saw raid bosses with big damage buffs (like Flagit) doing redonkulous damage with DoTs. Flagit, in the bottom half when he stacks Melee Damage buffs (which are %'s, not Ratings) can easily kill someone with 6000+ morale in two or three ticks of a DoT.

Did they remove the "Elite+ Offense Rating Buff" variable from the inside of the damage formula, and stick it outside the parentheses as a straight percentage to all damage? Does the Turtle's DoT damage go down as Disables/Fire-Lores are applied?

[Talcyndl]

Ran the Turtle with a Kin group tonight. We've run it many times with no problems. Tonight after two Acid DOT wipes, we simply gave up. Hoping this is a bug that can be fixed easily and wasn't some misguided intentional change.

[canyouaddcolour]

Ran the Turtle with a Kin group tonight. We've run it many times with no problems. Tonight after two Acid DOT wipes, we simply gave up. Hoping this is a bug that can be fixed easily and wasn't some misguided intentional change.

Yup. Ran it with my Kin earlier. Wiped twice, brought in another minstrel ...got about 50 k further and then decided to go do other stuff.

IDK, if it's changed to be this hard on purpose I hope the rewards are significantly better than they were before.

Has anybody gotten it down since F2P?

[Talfryn]

Ran the Turtle with a Kin group tonight. We've run it many times with no problems. Tonight after two Acid DOT wipes, we simply gave up. Hoping this is a bug that can be fixed easily and wasn't some misguided intentional change.

Exactly our situation. Two tries and it was very clear that something was terribly amiss.

[Evendale]

Erm. We just did this with a half kin half pug group, and completed it on the very first try (admittedly only 3 ppl lived at the end).

It's much tougher but certainly doable.

[Lestache]

Well, we killed Super Turtle about an hour ago with a random-ish group of 12.

The groupwide DoT started at 360/tick and ramped up to 1500/tick.

At the end we had two Captains left alive thanks to Last Stand, one captain pet (that never got the DoT), and a Burg and a Hunter that the Captains rezzed right near the end.

I'm pretty sure my Last Stand was about to run out, too, especially since I didn't have Defiance traited.

The fight is pretty silly now, tbh. I highly doubt we would've done it without 4 Burgs' worth of RW.

EDIT: I was in the same group that Evenwyn was, btw.

[Smokey050]

Sounds to me like the bleed damage is bugged across the board in several fights or Turbine has gone insane especially considering that fact that this is level 60 Content.

[Mund]

Erm. We just did this with a half kin half pug group, and completed it on the very first try (admittedly only 3 ppl lived at the end).

It's much tougher but certainly doable.

Doable at level 60 (the level of the instance, after all) and without stacking burgs?

Sounds obviously bugged to me.

[canyouaddcolour]

Well, we killed Super Turtle about an hour ago with a random-ish group of 12.

The groupwide DoT started at 360/tick and ramped up to 1500/tick.

At the end we had two Captains left alive thanks to Last Stand, one captain pet (that never got the DoT), and a Burg and a Hunter that the Captains rezzed right near the end.

I'm pretty sure my Last Stand was about to run out, too, especially since I didn't have Defiance traited.

The fight is pretty silly now, tbh. I highly doubt we would've done it without 4 Burgs' worth of RW.

EDIT: I was in the same group that Evenwyn was, btw.

Congrats! Thanks. That's actually helpful.

Thought it'd be possible. I wanted to try stacking a few Burgs. =P

If this was intended I sure hope you guys got better loot than usual. I think the Turtle definitely needed to be kicked up a notch, but this new fight seems ridiculous if the only way you're going to beat it is by stacking a few certain classes versus having a balanced group.

[thejawz]

Congrats! Thanks. That's actually helpful.

Thought it'd be possible. I wanted to try stacking a few Burgs. =P

If this was intended I sure hope you guys got better loot than usual. I think the Turtle definitely needed to be kicked up a notch, but this new fight seems ridiculous if the only way you're going to beat it is by stacking a few certain classes versus having a balanced group.

we tried turtle tonight and didnt even get it to half life. mostly 65's 1 of our 12 was not 65. I needed to kill the turtle one more time now it seems it may never happen.

[Lestache]

Doable at level 60 (the level of the instance, after all) and without stacking burgs?

Sounds obviously bugged to me.

Congrats! Thanks. That's actually helpful.

Thought it'd be possible. I wanted to try stacking a few Burgs. =P

If this was intended I sure hope you guys got better loot than usual. I think the Turtle definitely needed to be kicked up a notch, but this new fight seems ridiculous if the only way you're going to beat it is by stacking a few certain classes versus having a balanced group.

The loot was the same, and the Burg stacking was accidental. Think we had one kin burg, and just picked up whatever six people responded to the glff request. Apparently three of those were Burgs.

[azureal1977]

Oh well. Having to run this thing only once every 3 days was annoying anyway. I dont really need level 60 1A's....now that 65 2a's are overly abundant thanks to increased symbol drops.

Cheers Turbine, youve freed up 20 extra minutes for me every week.

[Maxal]

We tried last night also. Two attempts and we were out of there. I think the first time we got him close to 50% but the second time not even that far. Also on the second attempt we made sure everyone purchased the acid defense with DP, but that did not make any noticeable effect. I checked my combat log and both times when i was defeated I was taking 750+ acid damage on the tick. this was with a tank with 4K acid defense......

Yes everyone was doing a lot less damage and taking a lot more. There was no way our minny's could have kept up with the damage being done.

We only had two burgs, but having to find 4 or 5 burgs to run the turtle is going to mean more unused content on the servers.

It would be nice to have some information from a DEV if they changed everything once more. I mean after SOM was released it took them a week(s?) to finally tell us they had fixed the resist. It would be nice to have some understanding if the game has had a major behind the scene change that affects all the bosses.

[Oblivion_Calls]

Attempted to do this Raid twice tonight with a group of 11 65s and 1 63 (half kin members, half PUG). Class composition was something like: 2 LMs, 2 Guardians, 2 Hunters, 2 captains, 2 Runekeepers, 1 Minstrel, 1 Champion. On both attempts, about 1 minute in to the instance, the group was all defeated due to the acid DoT. The tanks did not lose aggro until after all other party members were defeated. The DoT appeared to start at 360 damage every 3 seconds on each person, and after a minute, seemed to be dealing about 1000 damage every 3 seconds to each person. The DoT on the tanks began around 1050 damage per 3 seconds, and increased from there. We were able to get the Turtle down to around 450k health before wiping.

Our kin has had many successful Turtle runs in the past; we can confirm that something strange was going on here. The acid DoT applied to the group was significantly higher than normal.

[jhwort]

I was tanking in the group with Evenwyn and Lestache. I died twice. The aggro bleed starts at 1125 and when I died it had reached 4500 a tick.

Like Evenwyn said, it's do-able at level 65. However, I would be hard pressed to say this could be done with an on level group and the rewards are exactly the same. Why anyone would ever want to even run the Turtle in this form would be beyond me.

My guess is this is some kind of bug and I hope Turbine is looking into it.

[Sonsy]

The groupwide DoT started at 360/tick and ramped up to 1500/tick.

Geesh, the group DoT is bigger than the tank DoT used to be! Not to mention, the group DoT is every 3 seconds and the tank DoT is every 5! (Or is it the other way around...either way, that is just brutal.)

Gratz to anyone who beats this exceedingly nasty turtle imposter. Hopefully this all turns out to be a rogue decimal point somewhere. In the meantime, I'm sure not stepping foot into that place, particularly with my minnie!

[Sonsy]

How interesting...both the tank DoT and the group DoT are off by a factor of 4.5.

The tank DoT used to start at 250 and now starts at 1125:
1125/250 = 4.5

The group DoT used to start at 80 and now starts at 360:
360/80 = 4.5

Ouch.

Not sure what that means, but it is very consistent. I wonder if that works for the BO eyes as well.

[Master1213]

Any official word on this or not? are they doing anything to fix it? I dont recall reading anything about changes to turtle in the patch notes....

[Tiempko]

I am a member of a group that has hunted turtles every Tuesday for two months. Sometimes we lost, but nothing like tonight. The turtle still had 400,000 morale when we were all dead. As the group healer, I had never had to deal with morale dropping so fast on the part of fellow fighters.

This was unreal.