Complaint: Language Tolerance In-game

[phantomzer0]

I don't usually do things like this, but I'm especially irked after an incident that occurred this night. I understand swearing is against the TOS. What I do not understand is why I was issued a warning. I accidentally used regular "say" chat instead of tell while partying up and let fly a swear word. Obviously someone who is very sheltered took the time to report it, even though I directly apologized afterwards, generally of course.

The reason I'm bothered by this is because I was issued a "tell" by a GM and was simply given a few sentences about it being against the TOS and that I'm being issued a warning. If I was a F2P player, fine, smack me with a warning and be on your way. However, I spent a ton of money on this game in the past and present and to be frank, I don't think it's appropriate to just slap a warning on someone without any sort of correspondence between the GM and the player. When I then asked the GM a question in return, I got nothing. No response; nothing. So please, explain how that works. Joe player can report to a GM, give their say on what happened, the GM looks in a chat log, and that's that. Cut and dry. Well excuse me that's BS.

You guys don't want people swearing, fine I get that. But if a mistake is made and apology issued afterwards, why the need for a mark on my account? Accidents are going to happen and it's unfortunate that the immediate action to a paid subscriber is instantly a warning with no correspondence. I understand that some people are really sensitive and can't handle words that may be offensive. But what's offensive to you may not be to me and that's why there is a profanity filter in place. Why have a profanity filter in place if in the end you can just go report it to a GM? Now if the filter was on, and I circumvented the filter to intentionally swear, then by all means do I completely understand the warning and the whole cut and dry aspect. I'm sure the GM did not check to see if the reporting player's filter was on and I'm also sure he didn't check to see if I was intentionally circumventing the filter. I pay for a service just like the next guy and if the GM's are going to take requests for violations, they really need to accept return correspondence to make sure the right decision is made. Not all situations are the same and they should not all be treated the same.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me and I'm not posting this for anything other than to get my frustration out. Thanks.

[Unique]

Hate to tell you this but any channel can be monitored/reviewed and since you already know that swearing is against the TOS then you know that swearing in any channel can earn you a warning/ban, no matter how private you think it is, it's all their server.

The terms of service state that the use of profanity is prohibited. That means if you type it, regardless of whether or not filters are present or turned on by other players, you are in violation and may have action taken against your account.

It doesn't matter if you are VIP or F2P, it's the same rules, you cannot pay for the privilege of cussing in any channel, even a tell.

[Gamblore]

IMO they should make an 18+ server so we won't have these issues with care bears.
There is a profanity filter in place to filter out any swear words you may not like as long as someone isn't bypassing that filter there is no reason to receive a warning for it.


If GM's don't want anyone swearing remove the option to turn off the chat filter since less will be inclined to swear.

[phantomzer0]

Hate to tell you this but any channel can be monitored/reviewed and since you already know that swearing is against the TOS then you know that swearing in any channel can earn you a warning/ban, no matter how private you think it is, it's all their server.



It doesn't matter if you are VIP or F2P, it's the same rules, you cannot pay for the privilege of cussing in any channel, even a tell.

I am not insinuating that being VIP should allow me to swear. I am insinuating that GM's should be a little more interested when it comes down to policy violations with a paid customer, opposed to simply sending a tell and being on their way, considering I am 'chipping in' to whatever compensation they are getting from turbine. If they don't want swearing allowed at all, period, which again I get, why is there a swearing filter to begin with? Why even give the option if the policy is cut and dry?

[talonjendro]

I am not insinuating that being VIP should allow me to swear. I am insinuating that GM's should be a little more interested when it comes down to policy violations with a paid customer, opposed to simply sending a tell and being on their way, considering I am 'chipping in' to whatever compensation they are getting from turbine. If they don't want swearing allowed at all, period, which again I get, why is there a swearing filter to begin with? Why even give the option if the policy is cut and dry?

That's like saying to a cop, "You can't give me a ticket! I pay your salary!" Whether you are a subscriber or not, you get the same treatment as anyone else. I think the filter is mostly there for one big reason.

Its there as a way for Turbine to "cover their butt" in a legal sense. If they didn't have a filter the game would not have the "T for teen" rating, it would have a "Mature" rating. In which case, I'm quite certain that a number of retailers would stop carrying the game altogether.

[phantomzer0]

That's like saying to a cop, "You can't give me a ticket! I pay your salary!" Whether you are a subscriber or not, you get the same treatment as anyone else. I think the filter is mostly there for one big reason.

Its there as a way for Turbine to "cover their butt" in a legal sense. If they didn't have a filter the game would not have the "T for teen" rating, it would have a "Mature" rating. In which case, I'm quite certain that a number of retailers would stop carrying the game altogether.

Oh boy, where do I even..... Look, this is not the same as a situation with a police officer. Even if you were to draw any kind of similarities, which you really can't because our legal system is a giant compared to the TOS of this game, at the very least you can contest your ticket in court and potentially have it reversed. Either way, we're getting way ahead of ourselves when we start comparing this game to real world law enforcement. It just isn't the same.

If turbine wanted to 'cover their butt' and keep it a T rated game, THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE INCLUDED A FILTER AT ALL! Enable it by default and remove the option. That's covering things to me. The fact is the profanity filter is there to filter profanity and IMO warnings should be given out to users who circumvent the filter. That is the only logical explanation to having a user controlled profanity filter and any other explanation for why it would be user controlled simply does not make sense.

I appreciate your response but to insinuate a retailer not stocking a game due to it's M rating is asinine and we don't even need to go down a road that involves sales figures for a free to play game, it's banter for another day I suppose and not pertinent to this complaint at all.

[whheydt]

First...The OP is probably going to get another warning, since discussing disciplinary actions in the forums is, in itself, a ToS/CoC violation.

Second...It's already been noted that it doesn't matter what channel, no matter how private you may think it is, it all belongs to Turbine. Their servers, their rules.

Third...The GMs are chronically overloaded. They don't *time* to hold your hand and lead you carefully through the rules. There are other things that need their attention and they'll--generally--do what it takes to process the issue and move on.

Fourth...The way to dispute what was done is to send a private message (PM) to one of the community reps, like Sapience. You probably won't get any "satisfaction", but at least you'll be complaining in a way--assuming you keep a moderate and reasoned tone if you do attempt to appeal--that won't get you in further trouble.

It's an open guess as to what will happen to this thread. It'll either just be closed, or it'll be closed and deleted.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

[Herukhuti]

As far as I'm concerned, you lose all rights to complain about profanities the moment you switch the profanity filter off. If you don't want to hear "bad language" don't turn off the filter. It's as simple as that. Full stop. People that turn the filter off and then complain about profanities are looking for attention (by the perception that they are ingratiating themselves with the GMs) and reasons to report people. This is a completely different matter than the ToS.

[Shukar]

I appreciate your response but to insinuate a retailer not stocking a game due to it's M rating is asinine and we don't even need to go down a road that involves sales figures for a free to play game, it's banter for another day I suppose and not pertinent to this complaint at all.

This was not always a free to play game. When the rules were written and the filters established, keeping boxes on the shelves was a serious concern.

I can see you are upset. For a lot of people, the ability to drop bombs is an important part of their speech pattern. But think of it this way... if you never practice any restraint in this area, then you are GOING to embarrass yourself again by cussing where you shouldn't be cussing. Maybe you can use this as incentive to make your chat more mature?

[Mister_Underhill]

As far as I'm concerned, you lose all rights to complain about profanities the moment you switch the profanity filter off. If you don't want to hear "bad language" don't turn off the filter. It's as simple as that. Full stop. People that turn the filter off and then complain about profanities are looking for attention (by the perception that they are ingratiating themselves with the GMs) and reasons to report people. This is a completely different matter than the ToS.

As far as I'm concerned, you lose all right to complain about getting a warning the moment you turn your courtesy filter off. If you don't want to be warned about using 'bad language', don't turn off your brain. It's as simple as that. Full stop. People that turn their courtesy filter off and then complain about being warned for profanity are looking for attention (by the perception that they are ingratiating themselves with immature-minded individuals) and reasons to break courtesy. This is a completely different matter than being an adult.

[Torvered]

Oh boy, where do I even..... Look, this is not the same as a situation with a police officer. Even if you were to draw any kind of similarities, which you really can't because our legal system is a giant compared to the TOS of this game, at the very least you can contest your ticket in court and potentially have it reversed. Either way, we're getting way ahead of ourselves when we start comparing this game to real world law enforcement. It just isn't the same.

If turbine wanted to 'cover their butt' and keep it a T rated game, THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE INCLUDED A FILTER AT ALL! Enable it by default and remove the option. That's covering things to me. The fact is the profanity filter is there to filter profanity and IMO warnings should be given out to users who circumvent the filter. That is the only logical explanation to having a user controlled profanity filter and any other explanation for why it would be user controlled simply does not make sense.

I appreciate your response but to insinuate a retailer not stocking a game due to it's M rating is asinine and we don't even need to go down a road that involves sales figures for a free to play game, it's banter for another day I suppose and not pertinent to this complaint at all.

I was about to say the same thing! Why in the world did they even include the option to disable the profanity filter? Do they expect people to swear even though it's against the TOS? I don't swear in the game(didn't even realize it was against the rules until now) but if you don't want people to use profanity, why give the option to see it?

Unless it's for the GMs and etc so they can see what the word was? I'd expect them to be able to see it regardless.

Sorry for the derail, I'm just completely baffled by this.

[Angeliel]

It definitely sucks that you didn't mean to post something publicly, and that one mistake had such an impact. I've definitely hit the wrong button on chat from time to time!

However, I suspect that the GM had to give you a warning based on what happened, and with no leeway as it would have been a matter of public record, and witnessed by potentially many in chat. When GMs have given special circumstances in the past, from what I've witnessed, it nearly always backfired on the GM eventually. So I do understand a simple "by the book" approach.

And I appreciate that they take the language issue seriously. Nothing can sour a mood as quickly as a troll or a really nasty moment in general chat. I had a really terrible experience a few years back, in creep chat on Brandywine, in which a bunch of guys began to -- in pretty straightforward language -- make fun of an underage assault victim in the news. Which quickly led to some general conversations that were just really gross and inappropriate. I was upset by the experience and didn't play my creep again for months (thinking, wow 'creep chat' really is what it says).

However, when I posted about it in the forums, I was immediately contacted by Turbine, the issue was addressed, and I was told (very nicely) that I should have reported the offenders, and that they do not tolerate such incidents. And to be fair, neither do most players either. Two years and many creep hours later, I realize it was an anomaly, and that most of the time creep chat isn't like that at all, and there are some really nice orcs and wargies running around in the Moors. But it did stay with me, and it made me glad there are rules in place, in retrospect. I also have a niece in her early teens who plays LOTRO, and again, I am glad that Turbine is strict about language.

BUT. As far as your situation -- to me, it sounds like a simple failure in customer service. If the GM had said, "I'm really sorry, but our rules stipulate that I have to give you a warning. However, I'll reference what happened in the notes, as well, and we'll consider removing the warning after _______ time if the incident isn't repeated," I suspect you probably wouldn't have been nearly as upset. The GM should have acknowledged your situation, as well as your status as a valued customer.

I understand that the GMs are busy, but for the GM to issue you a warning and not even allow you a response? I think that's not fair. As a customer, you deserved a courteous response, and a feeling that you had been listened to. That's the real fail here I think. As it is, someone from on high smacked you down, and you never even got to defend yourself, and that's got to leave some negative feelings.

Just my 2 cents. Hope it helps.

[ImirielOfTheNorth]

At least you received a warning.
I immediately got a 7 day ban after using the /say option while talking to a Kin mate. Of course, my Kinnies are not a bunch of carebears, the GM monitoring it simply felt the need to ban me despite me not hindering anyone's playing experience.

But, I honestly think anyone who uses the "Report" option, unless the player is harassing you (Sorry, I feel truly do feel sorry for you if you believe using profanity is harassment), should really not be playing games which require you to socialise with other players...

[tkdyoo]

As far as I'm concerned, you lose all right to complain about getting a warning the moment you turn your courtesy filter off. If you don't want to be warned about using 'bad language', don't turn off your brain. It's as simple as that. Full stop. People that turn their courtesy filter off and then complain about being warned for profanity are looking for attention (by the perception that they are ingratiating themselves with immature-minded individuals) and reasons to break courtesy. This is a completely different matter than being an adult.

Quite honestly, the courtesy filter thing was a bit cheesy man, sometimes curse words slip when ur frustrated, no matter how "courteous" an individual is. By contrast, a profanity filter doesnt slip, its there for a reason and can only slip by being turned off. The fact that he apologized directly afterwords is proof he did not mean to swear and whoever reported him was being far less mature about the matter. If you dont want to have the chance of someone even slipping up then you really should keep ur filter on.

edit: quite honestly the only reason I can see for reporting someone who apologized afterwords and was a slip up is to get some smug holier than tho satisfaction out of it, which to me is equally as disgusting as someone who throws curses around all the time on purpose.

What does a warning even do anyways? does it go away after a while like points on a drivers license?

[Amicu]

Just curious what are the GMs so busy with?

[phantomzer0]

As far as I'm concerned, you lose all right to complain about getting a warning the moment you turn your courtesy filter off. If you don't want to be warned about using 'bad language', don't turn off your brain. It's as simple as that. Full stop. People that turn their courtesy filter off and then complain about being warned for profanity are looking for attention (by the perception that they are ingratiating themselves with immature-minded individuals) and reasons to break courtesy. This is a completely different matter than being an adult.

I shouldn't bother responding to you, but I will just because you are trying to judge my character, indirectly, with an experience that was contrived by using a 'profane' word. I already explained it was an error and was quickly followed with an apology. Immediately you should realize that this means I was aware of the problem. Talk about being an adult all you want, but if you ask me, it was the mature thing to issue an apology immediately. And by the way, it's not a courtesy filter, its a profanity filter and it evidently serves no purpose. This situation did not require 'courtesy' as the initial 'profanity' was meant to be private in a tell. If you couldn't gather all that from my initial post, maybe I wasn't as clear as I thought I was.

It definitely sucks that you didn't mean to post something publicly, and that one mistake had such an impact. I've definitely hit the wrong button on chat from time to time!

However, I suspect that the GM had to give you a warning based on what happened, and with no leeway as it would have been a matter of public record, and witnessed by potentially many in chat. When GMs have given special circumstances in the past, from what I've witnessed, it nearly always backfired on the GM eventually. So I do understand a simple "by the book" approach.

And I appreciate that they take the language issue seriously. Nothing can sour a mood as quickly as a troll or a really nasty moment in general chat. I had a really terrible experience a few years back, in creep chat on Brandywine, in which a bunch of guys began to -- in pretty straightforward language -- make fun of an underage assault victim in the news. Which quickly led to some general conversations that were just really gross and inappropriate. I was upset by the experience and didn't play my creep again for months (thinking, wow 'creep chat' really is what it says).

However, when I posted about it in the forums, I was immediately contacted by Turbine, the issue was addressed, and I was told (very nicely) that I should have reported the offenders, and that they do not tolerate such incidents. And to be fair, neither do most players either. Two years and many creep hours later, I realize it was an anomaly, and that most of the time creep chat isn't like that at all, and there are some really nice orcs and wargies running around in the Moors. But it did stay with me, and it made me glad there are rules in place, in retrospect. I also have a niece in her early teens who plays LOTRO, and again, I am glad that Turbine is strict about language.

BUT. As far as your situation -- to me, it sounds like a simple failure in customer service. If the GM had said, "I'm really sorry, but our rules stipulate that I have to give you a warning. However, I'll reference what happened in the notes, as well, and we'll consider removing the warning after _______ time if the incident isn't repeated," I suspect you probably wouldn't have been nearly as upset. The GM should have acknowledged your situation, as well as your status as a valued customer.

I understand that the GMs are busy, but for the GM to issue you a warning and not even allow you a response? I think that's not fair. As a customer, you deserved a courteous response, and a feeling that you had been listened to. That's the real fail here I think. As it is, someone from on high smacked you down, and you never even got to defend yourself, and that's got to leave some negative feelings.

Just my 2 cents. Hope it helps.

I appreciate your response. Thank you!

[LadyVix]

There are just too many care bears in this game.

So many people are afraid that their children will be corrupted by some offhand "profane" comment that will burn their children's eyes if read, but the fact is that that "child" probably uses that language or worse on a regular basis.

If your kids are too young to see an occasion offhand comment, they're probably too young to be playing.

[Celt_Ainvar]

Oh this tread going to be Lock in No time.

To agree with talonjendro It Basicly like a Ticket you get from a Cop and we have to follow the RULES.

We enter Lotro to get away from stress not to bring stress to the game. So your real lucky you just got a Warning.

Mybe you should read about how bad words can be view. A few good words can help someone or few bad words can hurt someone.

Where I live the major topic is Cyberbullying Telling someone (Even if you are Joking) your this or your that could premote them to do something normaly they would not do.

[Kyrra_T]

You might want to send a feedback via the Turbine link made for reporting a problem with a interaction with a Turbine rep.

http://support.turbine.com/ics/support/

Btw, you're probably going to get dinged on your account again for making the original post. Since they can't tell their 'side' of any interaction bringing up any discipline in the forums is a conduct violation on the forums.

I hope it works out well for you once you get your feedback in, but it probably wasn't an individual reporting this, Turbine monitors channels in general too.

[Valicetra]

sometimes curse words slip when ur frustrated, no matter how "courteous" an individual is.

speaking real words with your mouth yes, but typing is a deliberate and conscious thought. There's no "slipping" when pressing multiple keys in a specific order.

otherwise. I'd think the fact that you got a warning and not banned was leeway enough. The GM saying, in effect "be careful next time" doesn't seem like something to be mad about.

It's like being mad at cop for giving you a warning when you could have had a $200 ticket.
Gm knew it was a mistake, that's why you're still playing the game.

I'd personally be feeling pretty lucky, but some people are harder to please.

[tkdyoo]

Oh this tread going to be Lock in No time.

To agree with talonjendro It Basicly like a Ticket you get from a Cop and we have to follow the RULES.

We enter Lotro to get away from stress not to bring stress to the game. So your real lucky you just got a Warning.

Mybe you should read about how bad words can be view. A few good words can help someone or few bad words can hurt someone.

Where I live the major topic is Cyberbullying Telling someone (Even if you are Joking) your this or your that could premote them to do something normaly they would not do.

Lol are you serious? Did you even read the OP? He said it slipped and he EVEN apologized to everyone immediately afterwords. There was no cyber bullying or intent to harm anyone. If I was a GM, I would probably roll my eyes and tally this one off to school yard tattling and move along.

Seriously, I agree with ladyvix, too many over sensitive people.

[Celt_Ainvar]

Yes I did. Understanding how words can Hurt or Offend someone even if accidently. Can be viewed as cyberbullying. It Where words hurts someone.

[bob101910]

Lol are you serious? Did you even read the OP? He said it slipped and he EVEN apologized to everyone immediately afterwords. There was no cyber bullying or intent to harm anyone. If I was a GM, I would probably roll my eyes and tally this one off to school yard tattling and move along.

Seriously, I agree with ladyvix, too many over sensitive people.

If my friend installed a mod that let me fly and kill everything in one hit on my computer. Then I play, not knowing he did that, and kill everything in one hit and fly around everywhere. I apologize right away and take the mods off. Would that be ok? I didn't harm anybody and there was no cyber bullying plus I apologized immediately afterwards.

I'm not sure how warnings work in this game, but it sounds more like a "Yeah cut that out! Don't let me see you doing that again." type warning, not a mark on OP account.

[tkdyoo]

Yes I did. Understanding how words can Hurt or Offend someone even if accidently. Can be viewed as cyberbullying. It Where words hurts someone.

As I understood it, cyberbullying was the deliberate attempt to hurt or offend someone online and possibly even try to make it ruin their actual life, which believe me I am very against. And if someone were to do such a thing, I would fully support them being banned from the game. But I cant see how you can take a slip not even directed at anyone in the chat with an apology immediately following and twist that in to cyberbullying.

Edit: Bob: Eventhough you are making an extreme extrapolation from a simple slip of a swear word, I suppose it depends on how you used that mod. If you were just flying around killing monsters, then yes, I would take the apology and move on with my life. But, if you were using that ability to grief other players, then no it wouldnt be fine because that in fact IS cyber bullying.

[fenwe]

OP, welcome to the real world, where choices have consequences. You chose to type profanity and you chose to hit the return key to send it on it's way. That wasn't an unintentional slip, it was two or three choices strung together that had an appropriate negative consequence. I hope you take note and learn from the experience. Depending on what server it was on, it may even have been me that reported you

I am no care bear. I could care less about your opinions on the use of the filter or not. The filter is less than perfect and can often 'filter' out a perfectly normal word. Turbine has made it clear that profanity is not allowed. One of the reasons I have spent money and time in this realm is because of the strict ToS. I even got a warning of my own at one point. I didn't cry and whine about it. I just acknowledged my mistake and have never made that mistake again. I took responsibility for my actions, like people should and most often don't. Just like you aren't now.