Lost Temple Tier 2 Last Boss Challenge Bug

[Kevrihl]

Working on the challenge to kill all of the adds before killing the final boss in Lost Temple on Tier 2 we unfortunately came across a bug. We wiped at the end of our first attempt and after retreating and running back there were three mobs that had not despawned. When we got near the door to the boss's room the three leftover adds agro'd onto us and we fought them in the hallway and killed them. We got buffed up and went in and did our thing. However there were three add's bodies on the floor that no matter how many times we dropped the red cloud on them they would not spawn so that we could kill them. We cleared the rest of the room but could not get rid of those three corpses and did not get credit for completing the challenge.

Bug #1 When wiping on final boss adds do not despawn properly
Bug #2 When the previous bug happens you cannot complete the challenge due to corpses not spawning adds properly

On a completely seperate note: I hit the ? to bring up the LotRO help window, clicked on "submit a bug report", submitted a bug report and received a note that I should instead do a /bug from the chat window. If that's the case then why is there a "submit a bug report" button at all with a form to fill out? If you aren't going to accept them as bug reports than maybe you should just have that button redirect you to a page telling us how to submit one that you will accept.

Thank you.

[Rawlor]

hmmmm I wonder if that's what happened to us too. We had it... but not all the adds would spawn.
We thought it was because someone had run into a cloud while having the eye, spawning the new cloud. Or when someone died while having the eye. Or something like that.

[XSYS]

We thought it was because someone had run into a cloud while having the eye, spawning the new cloud. Or when someone died while having the eye. Or something like that.

There's a separate issue where someone dying with the eye drops a puddle but doesn't spawn any of the mobs in it.

[LagunaD]

I think if you wait a little bit, the adds will despawn and the instance will fully reset.

[Vastin]

Any Rot Grubs generated as a result of infection will NOT reset with the room - but they will go away on their own in a few minutes. Nor do they have any impact on the challenge at all (they aren't part of it).

Corpses, raised mobs, and clouds should all reset fully however. We did initially have some timing issues with that in beta, but we felt we had resolved them. I'll look at it again if we get sufficiently detailed reports to corroborate when and how it is likely happening.

If, somehow a player cloud goes off after the reset sequence begins, that would be problematic. But under normal circumstances that shouldn't happen. HIPS-ing or otherwise dropping agro during a party wipe with an eye on you could potentially do something like that, so I'd avoid that particular action until we get a chance to revisit it.

[Vastin]

There's a separate issue where someone dying with the eye drops a puddle but doesn't spawn any of the mobs in it.

Now THAT sounds like a case that may have slipped by us. I'll definitely look into that.

There are multiple things happening at once when those clouds go off - but because your character is dying, it may be cutting short the execution of that sequence in some timing cases. That would kinda suck.

[Kevrihl]

In our case, we did not try to reset or anything we just plain old wiped and all six of us died. We all retreated and ran back to the entrance to the room when the three wights aggro'd onto us. I don't believe that anyone died with the eye in one of the red clouds. We also slowed down and allowed one of the red clouds that had a corpse it that would not spawn disapear and then placed a new red cloud on that mob and it would still not spawn. Hope that extra info helps.

[XSYS]

Thanks for the replies, Vastin. It's good to see continued developer attention and feedback being given after the patch has gone live.

[jkray622]

Now THAT sounds like a case that may have slipped by us. I'll definitely look into that.

There are multiple things happening at once when those clouds go off - but because your character is dying, it may be cutting short the execution of that sequence in some timing cases. That would kinda suck.

We saw this behavior frequently. For us, it always happened where someone with the eye would run into another puddle, which caused insta-death. That person's death would spawn a new puddle, but that new puddle wouldn't animate any corpses.

On a slightly related note, we had several deaths where people were just outside the visual "cloud" of a puddle, and still died as though they stepped into it. I'm not sure that the visual representation actually conveys the circumference of the puddle's effects.

[Henay]

We saw this behavior frequently. For us, it always happened where someone with the eye would run into another puddle, which caused insta-death. That person's death would spawn a new puddle, but that new puddle wouldn't animate any corpses.

On a slightly related note, we had several deaths where people were just outside the visual "cloud" of a puddle, and still died as though they stepped into it. I'm not sure that the visual representation actually conveys the circumference of the puddle's effects.

We had someone with the eye die tonight and it spawned the puddle but didn't raise the mob and had someone die outside the edge of the cloud as if they had fully stepped into it.

[Azerog]

Now THAT sounds like a case that may have slipped by us. I'll definitely look into that.

There are multiple things happening at once when those clouds go off - but because your character is dying, it may be cutting short the execution of that sequence in some timing cases. That would kinda suck.

Yeah, if you die when the puddle drops it definitely won't spawn any mobs. It cut off our last 2 bodies last night when this happened. We had this repeat several times unfortunately.

[shazbaat]

We saw this behavior frequently. For us, it always happened where someone with the eye would run into another puddle, which caused insta-death. That person's death would spawn a new puddle, but that new puddle wouldn't animate any corpses.

Yeah, we had this happen. It doesn't break the corpses that are in the puddle though. You can drop another puddle on them later and reanimate the corpses. I think one time this actually helped us because we didn't get any adds from that eye and were able to catch up on the ones that were already reanimated.

As a side note, this seems to be one of the longest 6 man fights ever in the game. It took us about a half hour. I'm sure it will get a little faster as we get better at it, but you are still limited by the time for the puddles to spawn and despawn. If you spread the puddles out too much to get a bunch of adds at once it seems like you will run out of room.

[JTollers]

Last night our kin ran Temple Tier 2 CM. And we came across the same bug someone else mentioned above a few posts up and I tried to capture more information.

The bug was that 4 people wiped and 2 were wiped by "misadventure" while the other 2 were wiped by a stun in clouds and then got his with a large assault. 2 of us barely survived as the room was full of clouds. We got T2, but failed challenge due to only the warden and LM left up.

This is what I saw if it helps the devs:

1) Two puddles were being applied right at time of 4 consecutive deaths
2) The boss was in middle center of room
3) The 2 that got misadventure death were ones dropping puddles. One was in center, one was being dropped at room edge.
4) Right at dropping, the other two attempted to run through center of room (by one of the puddle droppers) from behind the boss toward the room entrance to a cleared spot (formally had puddles that were dried up).
5) As the 2 passed the boss, he stunned them and the other 2 dropped their puddles, one on the 2 running.
6) This nexus caused a fairly large spike poison for the Mini and Hunter running, and defeated the Champ (wall side deposit) and LM (center room deposit by boss) by "Misadventure."

The 2nd LM and the Warden were at opposite room ends. Warden had safely made it through the middle clouds (but he was the first through and got through before deposits) and other LM didn't attempt the sprint.

I don't know if any of this helps, but the other 4 were reading their combat logs while we took down the boss with our remaining 2 players.

If it helps, there was also at this point only like 2 spawns that were not awakened and all were at 75% health before instantly being defeated by the stun cloud damage (it wasn't even a progressive death) and the droppers were one shotted with Misadventure were at roughly 75% health.

One last edit I forgotten to mention after i reread this: We attempted to spawn the last two adds (that were near the entrance) twice with puddles and it did not work. They were the last ones we needed and then the events above unfolded

[Laokong]

Corpses definitely won't wake up if you die from misadventure with an eye and you have to wait until that cloud has dissipated to raise the adds. I saw it happens twice, in 2 different groups. It didn't prevent us from doing challenge but forced us to ease up on the boss until the cloud was gone. Clouds' edges could be made a bit clearer as every time this happened the player with an eye thought they were far enough to be safe. Otherwise a great instance, quite fun for a champ

[Naethin]

Thought I would provide some info from our last run...

We had cleared the room till there were only 2 dead mobs left. The next time someone got the eye and tried to get both mobs they died of mis-adventure. Honestly I don't know what their health was at that time but it happened and the mobs didn't rez.

After that the next eye was on the hunter and he tried to get close enough to the bodies to rez at least one of them (he was not standing in a cloud). He was >6k morale and the eye seemed to drop much faster than the others and he insta-died by mis-adventure. Checking his combat logs he had two ticks from the cloud about 6-700 each then death by misadventure. No way the cloud should have killed him.

Anyone else experiencing this same thing? Boss was at about 50k when this happened.

[brasswire12]

Maybe someone here can help me with this, because I can't figure it out from reading the other replies in this thread.

Is there intended to be an "insta-death" mechanic in this fight? ie That there is something you can do, or not do, that will cause you to die instantly no matter how much morale you have?

I have definitely seen it happen many times, in the combat log it gets reported as "death by misadventure", and I'm pretty sure I know what is causing it. Just wondering if it is actually intended to be part of the fight, or if it's a bug.

[Vastin]

So, I'm tracking a few different issues here:

1) Corpses don't get up when you drop a cloud on death.

2) Anomolous 'insta' deaths from plague eyes.

3) Corpse reset issues.

So, #1 seems fairly clear, and its the kind of bug I might expect to see. When the plague explodes, 2 separate things are happening - the damage cloud and the animation effect. It looks like when you die the second one is getting cut off - probably because you are the 'parent' of the effect, but you are dead by the time it tries to execute. That I'm fairly certain I can address.

#2 - I've walked back through the effect that smites you, and frankly there's NO way for it to be triggered unless you meet BOTH conditions (eye + cloud). If the timer is still running on the eye, and you die of misadventure, then you hit a cloud.

The one case I can't entirely dismiss is the moment the timer runs out on the eye and the cloud explodes. Obviously there is a transition at that moment, and if the server bobbles the timing it is conceivable that it would think you had both effects on you at once (ie, it applies the cloud before removing the eye) - it shouldn't do that, but I can't conclusively say its impossible.

#3 - This concerns me a bit. All the corpses in that room are hooked up to EXACTLY the same reset sequence, so the fact that once in a while 2 or 3 of them decide they are going to do it their own way is extremely unfortunate. I'll increase the timing on the reset buffer to allow more time for things to clean up entirely before re-spawning the room, but I'm not entirely sure this will fix it. Unfortunately that sort of timing bug almost never shows up on unloaded servers, so its bearishly hard to test for.

If you're noticing that timing is a trend here, then you can reward yourself with a cookie. Effect and event timing is the cause of the vast majority of our bugs that make it live - because they are difficult to test for, and have a tendency to occur with much greater frequency on servers that are busy. In fact, most of this stuff simply never shows up on a lightly loaded test server.

[theonekane]

Yeah, Vastin I'm pretty sure the majority of the insta deaths come from the clouds edge being fuzzy. The problem is the fight encourages you to get as close as possible to previous clouds to avoid getting more adds then you intend. So people crowd in close and POW dead. It's also really hard to spot the dot from the cloud because of the incoming damage from the eye.

I think I remember hearing in the past that you guys tech doesn't actually allow for circular effects, thus sometimes causing deceptive moments in area effects. I think the problem with this one is that the actual active effect, the Dot slips outside the visible effect, the cloud, causing confusion. Maybe you could slightly increase the size of the cloud graphic, or slightly decrease the size of the Dot effect to get their sizes closer.
Sounds like that could work to me if that is indeed the problem...
(If I may toss this in, the poison clouds in Northcotton are also larger then their graphics appear)

[Crell_1]

Unfortunately that sort of timing bug almost never shows up on unloaded servers, so its bearishly hard to test for.... In fact, most of this stuff simply never shows up on a lightly loaded test server.

I'll admit I was occupied for most of this last round of BR testing, but it seems to me that specifically setting up event nights where everyones asked to grab a 65 and show up in a specific instance would assist with such stress testing. It doesn't need to be monetized, but I know that apart from specific groups scheduling times to run with each-other the instance-testing seemed a bit more haphazard in terms of planning than I've seen in past BR periods. PvMP specifically got a rank and testing night for example.

[SteeloBis]

About bug #2, I think I've managed to find out how that happened, but haven't been able to further test it.
When you have a disease debuff and you get the eye, if you cure the debuff with a pot, the eye seems to go off immediately. Haven't sent a bug report because I haven't been able to really test it, but I think that's what's happening. At least, it seems to be linked with the fact that you have a curable disease debuff on you at the same time.

[JohnnyManeuvers]

So, I'm tracking a few different issues here:


2) Anomolous 'insta' deaths from plague eyes.


#2 - I've walked back through the effect that smites you, and frankly there's NO way for it to be triggered unless you meet BOTH conditions (eye + cloud). If the timer is still running on the eye, and you die of misadventure, then you hit a cloud.

So I was running T2 wound wing with the elephants and I experienced an issue that may be relevant to the issue stated above. I got the blue eye, which means run away from the blue elephant and if he catches you he one-shots you. What happened was after I got it and ran, it disappeared and maybe 5-7 sec after it was off my head I stopped to heal. At that point elephant come and one shoted me for 10k.

I bet the eyes work with the same tech. What is the possibility that you don't see the eye above your head but the server still thinks it's there due to network, hiccup or whatever? That way it would look as though you got one-shoted becuase you don't see the eye but the server is still registering that you have it.

Is there anyway to avoid this potential issue? At least on Wound I can see if the elephant is still chasing me even without the eye.

[XSYS]

Yeah, Vastin I'm pretty sure the majority of the insta deaths come from the clouds edge being fuzzy. The problem is the fight encourages you to get as close as possible to previous clouds to avoid getting more adds then you intend. So people crowd in close and POW dead. It's also really hard to spot the dot from the cloud because of the incoming damage from the eye.

As a work-around, after each puddle goes down have someone "test" the edge and make sure everyone knows exactly where to go when they have the next eye. If you aren't busy killing adds, you can even have someone with no eye run to the drop zone with the eye-carrier and help them find a good place.

About bug #2, I think I've managed to find out how that happened, but haven't been able to further test it.
When you have a disease debuff and you get the eye, if you cure the debuff with a pot, the eye seems to go off immediately. Haven't sent a bug report because I haven't been able to really test it, but I think that's what's happening. At least, it seems to be linked with the fact that you have a curable disease debuff on you at the same time.

I don't think this is the case. I don't usually clear the incoming/outgoing healing disease unless I'm taking significant damage, so I often end up using a pot on that when I get the eye. I've never spontaneously dropped a puddle or been killed by one.

[Lomeloth]

I'll admit I was occupied for most of this last round of BR testing, but it seems to me that specifically setting up event nights where everyones asked to grab a 65 and show up in a specific instance would assist with such stress testing. It doesn't need to be monetized, but I know that apart from specific groups scheduling times to run with each-other the instance-testing seemed a bit more haphazard in terms of planning than I've seen in past BR periods. PvMP specifically got a rank and testing night for example.

The way I understand it is that it's not dependent on load in the instance (which can only hold so many) but rather total load on the server. Without a total population as dense as a decentlly-populated Live server, it becomes hard to reproduce because it's that overall load that causes the issues.

There have been times in betas where people are asked to log on just to load test, with occasional random prizes awarded to people who log in. I am not sure if the incentive actually increases logins, but I do know some of these events have made for impressive lag!

[Miletichc]

I posted on this as well and linked my post here. This is my posting and what happened to me

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...67#post5324167