Rise of Isengard: Minstrel Dev Diary Feedback

[Clover]

Today Orion discusses the upcoming changes to Minstrels, "I hope that this diary explains the reasons for the changes and provides a roadmap for the future of the class."

Read more in the latest Developer Diary from Allan ‘Orion’ Maki and post your comments here!

[AtzumoKayami]

I'm still a little disappointed that war-speech won't be renamed to Dissonance. That sounded so cool

[revoked]

Major kudos to the effort made to keep the naming of new skills/stances/buffs in line with the musical nature of the class.

*looks sadly at 'improved rousing words', 'improved all fates entwined'*

[MrsAngelD]

I'm nervous at having to re-learn my Mini all over again

[Fenaril]

I'm still a little disappointed that war-speech won't be renamed to Dissonance. That sounded so cool

Me too! Dissonance would have been awesome and ties in so well with all the other terminology changes.

Really looking forward to these new mechanics though!

(also, I think the damage-dealing version of Major Ballad is displaying the wrong Icon in the post - It's the same as Perfect Ballad instead of having a 'sharp' after the Clef)

[L_Loomis]

This is a thoughtful and careful Diary, and Im grateful for the amount of time and attention that has gone into the class!

Like anyone, I feel a bit of anxiety about how all this will mesh together at the 75 raid level, but I know if you've put this much heart into the design, you will watch the developments with a careful eye.


Thanks so much Turbine and Orion, for all this work on the Minstrel. I can't imagine anyone else putting this kind of effort into a class 4 years down the road!

~Reanigael, Landroval.



ORION?

Is it possible the new instrument system could function in a way such as an "of Clarity", (etc or however named) Flute, would give Anthem duration, and one "of Basso", etc, gives healing power reduction - but for the same instrument type?

The reason I ask is I play the Harp, love the Harp, and so far to date in LRO I've had to use a Horn, a Drum, or Clarinet.

With RoI, the Harp is once again not going to be up my most-used alley (Anthems) based on what my kin needs me for.

Is there ANY way we can get a few more options per instrument, please please please? So a Harp that does power reduction, and another Harp in the same recipe/exchange earning-system that does Anthem, etc?

Since these aren't in beta yet, there is time to just add a few more right?

THANK YOU!!! *Squints eyes and Hopes really hard*

[Crissaegrim]

Out on parental leave, Orion still puts remarkable care and attention and (most importantly) communication into a Dev Diary.

Kudos to you, sir; from the bottom of my heart.

"Dissonance" -- we wants it, precious. Far, far more applicable and keeping in tune (hah, a pun) with the theme of the changes. Please make it so.

[Mysterion]

Awesome, I'm leveling a mini on the original proposal of the changes. Level 39...still have a ways to go.

[ConstantiaChlorus]

The new changes play very well.

It is not any where near the radical change it sounds like in writing.

Once the healing power costs are in line, it's a very good update to the minstrel. I noticed that power costs were being tinkered with on the test server when I logged in today, so I expect that will get balanced out in the end. It's already much improved today.

[Crissaegrim]

Once the healing power costs are in line, it's a very good update to the minstrel. I noticed that power costs were being tinkered with on the test server when I logged in today, so I expect that will get balanced out in the end. It's already much improved today.

Things are looking... much improved.

[Kevrandrus]

I still remain nervous about the changes to Ballads/Anthems.

At the moment, my ballad buffs last for about 30 - 50 seconds, giving me abit of leeway to heal between buffs early in. And even with those durations I can't keep them up constantly in long fights since I need to A) conserve power and B) keep the party healed from the harder hits that start getting dished out.

Problem A arises in the increased cost power - which Im hoping will be recalculated once RoI goes live.

Problem B is that with a 20 second (from what I've heard, shared) cooldown, no tier 3 ballads to pop off quickly [now I have to hit 3 ballads then do an anthem for any group buffs - which will only last 10 seconds anyway], my capability to fulfill my secondary role of buffing the party seems to be going down the toilet. - I'm curious as to how this improves the minstrel exactly.

Also - is it true that base healing has been reduced? Or was that just a test issue in the RoI beta?

[Ranyart]

I'm still a little disappointed that war-speech won't be renamed to Dissonance. That sounded so cool

Or they could have called it something like "E flat minor", which is an especially evil sounding chord.

Nah, considering the learning curve with all the other changes just stick with War Speech.

[Orion]

Me too! Dissonance would have been awesome and ties in so well with all the other terminology changes.

Really looking forward to these new mechanics though!

(also, I think the damage-dealing version of Major Ballad is displaying the wrong Icon in the post - It's the same as Perfect Ballad instead of having a 'sharp' after the Clef)

The icons have changed even more. Feedback in beta made mention that they were all too alike. We have adjusted them to be G-clef (major), C-clef (perfect) and Treble/F-clef (minor) to make the appearances more distinguishable.

[Crissaegrim]

The icons have changed even more. Feedback in beta made mention that they were all too alike. We have adjusted them to be G-clef (major), C-clef (perfect) and Treble/F-clef (minor) to make the appearances more distinguishable.

Yahum! Noted that today, was very pleased with the change... had no idea if it was covered under the NDA, though. <.< >.>

Anyway! "Dissonance", we cry!

[Hoppa_Joel]

The new changes look interesting "except"... there are just so many of them it isn't the minstrel class anymore this is an entirely new class.
Why didn't you just create a new class called a skald or bard, with this in mind and leave current minstrels intact as they are, as they currently play.

I love new ideas and new classes, but my dad always told me " don't fix what isn't broken"

Minstrel was not broken, it didn't need this sort of fixing.
Kudos Orion on making an outstandinly looking new class but, alas it is not the minstrel!

I wish there was time for you to just make this in to a new class and forgo making these changes to the minstrel,
If we had more than 26 days of full knowledge of the impact of this perhaps we could have talked you into making it a new class ( which I'd defintely buy from the store hehe )

I will of course adapt, but how many people that loved Minstrels as they previously were, will not like these changes at all?

This reminds me of the stealthed animation changes to music, and to hobbit movement and so on... it is going to be the same result, some will love it some will hate it.

I would just love to see this as an option and not as impending doom, and forced upon us changes. 4+ years here minstrels wore medium armor, and healed and sang and danced, and did not have to worry much about complicated performances like a Warden does.
This "new class" looks so complicated, some people that liked the simplistic nature of the minstrel in its current form, might not enjoy this new build at all.

Keep in mind, I like the general idea of this, but I'd like it a lot more as a new class instead of a drastic ovehaul of the minstrel.

Now here is my request for the future: If and when you decide to drastically change a class this much, just instead make a new one put it in the store for sale, and people will buy it. People on existing classes will not be upset, it will be a win win situation and you will make more money as you will be selling a new class.

Same goes for animation/stances for music

hey why not introduce all our old music stances we had years ago with those old existing music poses as /music2 and sell the stance in the store :P I'd buy it!!!!

[AtzumoKayami]

I'm glad that the power issues are being resolved, but I guess we are still far from a final version (balancing the skills takes time after all, and that's the reason for the beta anyways). Can't wait to see the new instruments, and the CD of CtG is fixed sometime in the future. I wonder if the healing output will be tramped with too, since apparently minis aren't scaling very well in the last 10 levels. Well, 25 more days to go!

[Belnavar]

Out on parental leave, Orion still puts remarkable care and attention and (most importantly) communication into a Dev Diary.

Kudos to you, sir; from the bottom of my heart.

"Dissonance" -- we wants it, precious. Far, far more applicable and keeping in tune (hah, a pun) with the theme of the changes. Please make it so.

I agree on all counts. Great dev diary, and I'd like to see War-speech become Dissonance. War-speech is a cool name, but Dissonance is far more appropriate.

-Bel

[ShireDweller]

Can you give a little more information about the change of medium armor to light armor when RoI goes live?

If I'm wearing crit-crafted medium armor when RoI goes live, does it stay essentially the same in terms of stats and appearance (besides being converted to light armor), or does it get switched to some new, generic place-holder armor?

What happens to all the bound, medium armor I already have?

If medium armor already in my inventory is bound to me, can I still put it in the wardrobe after RoI? I've got a few pieces that I really like the look of - I'd like to know for pre-RoI wardrobe planning.

Does this also mean a change to existing tailor recipes?

Oh, and if we're voting, I like Dissonance better than War-Speech also.

[Eldrandir]

I agree on all counts. Great dev diary, and I'd like to see War-speech become Dissonance. War-speech is a cool name, but Dissonance is far more appropriate.

-Bel

Agreed, Dissonance even looks cooler then War-Speech. Now I need to go find a way to apply Dissonance to daily conversation and impress ppl...

[Orion]

@shiredweller

I believe, and i will need to follow up with another dev, that worn and bound armour will all simply become light armour. It may just be the armour that you are wearing though. Whuchever it is the armour will have the same look, same stats but contributions willnchange to be in line with light armour instead of medium. That should (emphasis should) only affect the armour rating of the item. Level. Appearance and so on should remain the same.

I Believe that the armour recipes remain the same. Though we may have made them into light.

[Namesse]

It's really a change that no one asked for, either we'll adapt or we'll sit and let the RKs heal, but my thoughts so far:

Minstrel is now an advanced class, be sure to update the description on the intro screen.

I got the impression that ballad should be set and then changed as your healing/power/damage goals change. In reality, if you're dps'ing, you will need to continue doing ballad damage as your calls and cries will be on CD. Skill rotation might be that you do ballads interspersed with cries/calls to get the 3 ballads up, it just doesn't seem like what was outlined. An assumption, I know what that means, so I guess I was just wrong with that.

We used to be good healers and good buffers, now we can only be either a good healer or a good buffer, depending on how we trait and our choice of a stance. But maybe that doesn't matter, as power costs are much higher, tho I see you've at least reduced the cost of BC to 296 base cost at level 75. But 700 power for IF? I told a LM last night his role in a raid will now be to keep the minis powered up. Cost for IF might be acceptable if raids no longer do AOE damage so that IF was rarely needed. Yep.

Healing output has gone down, maybe it will come back to our level 65 output with new gear and ballad buffs and anthems and traits, but yeah, if anyone is wondering why we can't keep them healed...

Song of the Hammerhand is a mere shadow of its former self, providing only a 1980 bubble, what happened to the 4x base morale? This skill formerly used power, so it could in theory provide around a 6k bubble (roughly full power plus a pot).

I do like the removal of the WS tail effect. And too bad for anyone in the moors, you're not getting heals unless you protect the mini so s/he can drop WS.

In short, you still need to bring the numbers in line in terms of power cost and healing. If I level to 75 I want to feel like I've actually made advances, not regressed in my abilities. It could be I'm missing all the gear since I auto leveled and admittedly didn't spend any time optimizing relics or anything.

It's probably a good thing that instances have been delayed for a couple months, as minis will need to relearn the class and groups will have to learn to compensate for healer that doesn't heal as well as it used to.

[Crissaegrim]

As reflected in other threads in the Minstrel Forum, the latest iteration of Isengard on Bullroarer has addressed the Power consumption issues using a mixture of alteration of skill cost and use of appropriate (new) minstrel instruments.

Things are looking very attractive at the moment.

[pakyaw]

wow major update for mini again imo. i wonder whats next

[Cerridwen]

What happens with the relics for Ballad Damage Tier 1 and 2?

[Umelrandir]

I've been looking forward to this large dev diary since I spoke to Sapience at PAX Prime about the changes to my class. Thanks for catching us all up. If I'm not mistaken, you have a background in music too, don't you? It makes a lot of sense now than it did before!

I've played a minstrel since open beta and I, at first, was hesitant as everyone else but I believe that once we get use to the changes it'll be a powerful healer, buffer, and dps-er in the future. Thanks for the hard work.