Rise of Isengard: Rune-keeper Dev Diary Feedback

[Clover]

In our latest Developer Diary, Brian "Zombie Columbus" Aloisio discusses the changes and updates to the Rune-Keeper class. Read more and post your feedback here!

[grinko.at]

I don't like seeing all bubble skills being converted to temporary morale shields. Morale shields are strong for soloing, but rapidly lose value when damage numbers increase drastically (raids). Percentage-based reductions are useful for soloing, but are equally valuable against big hitters (because they potentially absorb a lot more damage than the temporary morale negates).


Just because you have a new tech, doesn't mean it has to replace existing tried-and-true mechanics wherever possible, especially if the new tech is inferior in situations where emergency skills really matter.

[cbfan14]

I'd rather have more trials done with the bubbles before judging them, they have downsides sure, but they have some upsides too. I really really like the changes to our fire skills, however, and I look forward to trying them out. It seems ZC is taking our class in a more dedicated direction as far as traits go, where we're gonna have to use more traits from a certain traitline to get more of the potency of using that playstyle.

ATM though, I'm surprised at just seeing this dev diary! We were beginning to think we weren't getting one as some sort of punishment for being, well, rune-keepers.

[Eldrandir]

Why did you change have to some of the names? The new ones are terrible.

Sticking the word Improved in front of skill names makes it sound horrible. Improved Abrupt Words compared to Final Words? Improved Do Not Fall This Day vs Shall not Fall This Day. Worst of all, Improved Our Fates Entwined vs All Fates Entwined.

Some feel that standardizing the “Improved” skill names loses some flavor from the game. I don’t disagree, but clearing any confusion over what traits / legacies affect what skills is worth it to us.

Just does not seem like a reason to me. There never really was much confusion (when there was the thing was usually broken anyway).....you could also just change the tooltips.

These skills have always been awesome. With the increased attunement growth fire can now achieve, I felt it was time to make the attunement costs of these skills a little more in line with their potency.

What about the increased attun growth healing cannot achieve? Healing is when those skills are most important, and where attun hurts the most. Your practically destroying (the now terribly named) IOFE use.

[skadi]

Looks good. Glad to finally get this out there... looks like the reports of a healing nerf are greatly exaggerated, although of course we'll have to see how well the bubble works. Fire looks like it's gonna have some fairly spectacular damage output.

Any changes to legendary skills, other than Steady Hands?

[AlphaMan]

Multiple DNFs in one battle, lasting not seconds but the entire combat? Yummy (should help with putting it on at the last second only to be too late)

Fire changes look nice too, makes me want to utilize the line more, at first glance anyway.

Upping CV every minute's going to be a bit more annoying though.

Have to agree with Eldrandir about the skill names though. They're one of my favorite parts of the RK class- the dedication to having interesting skill names and descriptions that emphasize what the class is about (the use of runes/letters/words as power), and in this case "simplifying" things seems to take a bit of that away. Plus, it's not really simplifying things if half of the name stays the same as the old ones, just throwing "improved" in front of it. At the level you gain these skills, players know the skills well enough to know what they do. If they DON'T know the skills (haven't been using them), then wouldn't they be more likely to not learn what they do, since the skills will sound just like the initial ones to them, rather than seeing what looks like a 'new' skill to them and wanting to learn what it does?

[Hudson7]

Not that I understand RKs that much, but the last page jumped out at me with the mention of Tactical damage not stacking up to weapon based damage. Can we get clarification on how out of whack this really is? Are we talking orders of magnitude different or just a few percent off?

Also, I'm assuming this will also apply to Minstrels and Lore-masters, right?

Finally, I'm guessing the answer (soon), but any concrete ball-park for when this issue and the others already admitted for RoI might see a patch?

[Fasin]

No changes to all fates entwined, no changes to epic for the ages, no changes to flurry of words, and the change to steady hands does not look appealing.

Healing changes were a dissapointment, although the rousing words change is nice.

Nothing about Martial Training in there, i assume all the bonuses are getting scaled up as we level.

The new chisels and the new fire and lightning traits/trait line are great.

Looks like we just lost what little utility we had.

Overall it's a great update to dps, but healing changes were a dissapointment, and several skills that should have been changed weren't.

[Linwen]

"Epic Conclusion continues to be a cornerstone of Solitary Thunder damage dealing, but a thorn in the side of PvMP players everywhere. We’ve decided to take another step towards our goal of keeping the skill exciting, strong and potent, while removing some of the one shot kill potential."

I have been here long enough to remember various developers stating that no PvE changes would be done for the sake of PvMP concerns, and strenuously denying that PvMP had anything to do with changes we suspected originated from there (e.g. 10s stealth cooldown). We were repeatedly told that PvMP balancing would be done on the Creep side. So I would like to know why this is changing. Are we looking from now on at further PvMP balancing affecting PvE?

[AlphaMan]

"Epic Conclusion continues to be a cornerstone of Solitary Thunder damage dealing, but a thorn in the side of PvMP players everywhere. We’ve decided to take another step towards our goal of keeping the skill exciting, strong and potent, while removing some of the one shot kill potential."

I have been here long enough to remember various developers stating that no PvE changes would be done for the sake of PvMP concerns, and strenuously denying that PvMP had anything to do with changes we suspected originated from there (e.g. 10s stealth cooldown). We were repeatedly told that PvMP balancing would be done on the Creep side. So I would like to know why this is changing. Are we looking from now on at further PvMP balancing affecting PvE?

IMO, EC is more of a cornerstone of PvMP damage dealing than anything else. Outside of PvMP, it's useful but not necessarily the best option for a skill to use at any given time (imo). And if anything, lowering the crit-based damage but increasing crit frequency makes it a more consistent skill rather than a flashier skill (to some extent). And you need consistency in PVE (again, imo)

[skadi]

"Epic Conclusion continues to be a cornerstone of Solitary Thunder damage dealing, but a thorn in the side of PvMP players everywhere. We’ve decided to take another step towards our goal of keeping the skill exciting, strong and potent, while removing some of the one shot kill potential."

I have been here long enough to remember various developers stating that no PvE changes would be done for the sake of PvMP concerns, and strenuously denying that PvMP had anything to do with changes we suspected originated from there (e.g. 10s stealth cooldown). We were repeatedly told that PvMP balancing would be done on the Creep side. So I would like to know why this is changing. Are we looking from now on at further PvMP balancing affecting PvE?

While I don't doubt that it was significantly driven by the fact that EC was fairly problematic in the Moors - and they're not running away from that - the reasoning is hardly PvP specific. A skill that has a range of 1k to 7k isn't as useful in PvE as a skill that has a range of 3k to 5k.

[Linwen]

IMO, EC is more of a cornerstone of PvMP damage dealing than anything else. Outside of PvMP, it's useful but not necessarily the best option for a skill to use at any given time (imo).

That's not what worries me... The 'principle of the thing' does. I have an RK, but it's not even one of my main classes. If Turbine is moving towards openly changing PvE skills to suit PvMP, I think we all have something to worry about.

[6055]

so, can runekeepers slot 4 traits at level one to compensate for the reduction in healing and damage? :P

anyways, we still have about a week to level up before it becomes prohibitive to roll a new runekeeper after roi.

and it looks like we have to decide if we want dps or healing at the bards instead of before combat. so much for a true hybrid class.

[doug01]

"Epic Conclusion continues to be a cornerstone of Solitary Thunder damage dealing, but a thorn in the side of PvMP players everywhere. We’ve decided to take another step towards our goal of keeping the skill exciting, strong and potent, while removing some of the one shot kill potential."

I have been here long enough to remember various developers stating that no PvE changes would be done for the sake of PvMP concerns, and strenuously denying that PvMP had anything to do with changes we suspected originated from there (e.g. 10s stealth cooldown). We were repeatedly told that PvMP balancing would be done on the Creep side. So I would like to know why this is changing. Are we looking from now on at further PvMP balancing affecting PvE?

The game and the actives that the players engage in have changed since 4 years ago (when they made the statement you are referring to). Don't cry foul yet. Over all EC is better, so the impact on PvE is an improvement and PvP side the impact is more damage overall, less spike. PvP wise..thats a good thing for balancing out the RK.

[AlphaMan]

That's not what worries me... The 'principle of the thing' does. I have an RK, but it's not even one of my main classes. If Turbine is moving towards openly changing PvE skills to suit PvMP, I think we all have something to worry about.

So you're worried about a principle that's untrue? Edit: sorry, that sounded rude. I mean the skill is generally worthless in PVE, except at the very tail end of a fight and even then might as well use something else.
Skadi's post explains it better than mine.

so, can runekeepers slot 4 traits at level one to compensate for the reduction in healing and damage? :P

anyways, we still have about a week to level up before it becomes prohibitive to roll a new runekeeper after roi.

and it looks like we have to decide if we want dps or healing at the bards instead of before combat. so much for a true hybrid class.

I'd think one would have to roll a new char to see if it's really that hard. And given the ease of the first levels/regions (and leveling in general) I don't know that it'd cause a noticeable difference. If you find killing stuff too hard, there's always the shire.

As for hybridization... it's usually more effective to be better specialized than okay at a couple things. Granted, it's fun to switch mid-battle to a different playstyle. This makes (possibly) specilization more effective though, so I guess it calls for more planning. While this doesn't really satisfy your specific concern, it's probably more effective for the endgame? (would have to try out individual changes first to see)

[Linwen]

So you're worried about a principle that's untrue? Edit: sorry, that sounded rude. I mean the skill is generally worthless in PVE, except at the very tail end of a fight and even then might as well use something else.
Skadi's post explains it better than mine.

It was ZC who brought it up in the Diary, not me... So yes, I wonder.

[droid]

If Master of Writs is a toggle, can you toggle it on, switch to another riffler/chisel, and still keep it active? Or will switching chisels clear the buff?

Seems like, if its the former, you'd just keep a MoW chisel for "prebuffing" and then use something more immediately practical in combat.

[EvvPlayer]

and it looks like we have to decide if we want dps or healing at the bards instead of before combat. so much for a true hybrid class.

I've always had to do this, so no change there really.

I've always played lightning, so these fire changes do interest me. Since we'll apparently be tossing our current LI's and building new ones, might just be a fire stone for once. ;-)

[AlphaMan]

It was ZC who brought it up in the Diary, not me... So yes, I wonder.

Well, he didn't specifically say for PvE... and I wouldn't necessarily agree with him if he did.
In all honesty, the skill's been pretty lackluster in PvE (in pvmp, when you do get the awesome shot at least there's someone on the other end to show off to, not much point in that in pve settings, even in groups)
So changing it helps everyone, imo.

I've always had to do this, so no change there really.

I've always played lightning, so these fire changes do interest me. Since we'll apparently be tossing our current LI's and building new ones, might just be a fire stone for once. ;-)

Hated Hated Hated the cooldowns/inductions of fire, never really saw a benefit to using it because of this (maybe the math's there, but if it's not as fun to use..). These are nice, as are the writ changes (making the writs more usable overall)

[Fortinobrand]

Really disliking the % bonuses for being further traited into a line. This will be just one more reason for Raid Leaders to insist we retrait for every raid, or even multiple times within a raid. Everyone else gets to join a raid, do it, and afterwards be put right back where they were. RK have to drop what they are doing, travel to a town, spend money to retrait, then retrait again, then travel back to where they were questing. It's a time and money sink.

For the hundredth time -- please please as RK dev advocate for a system that allows retraits from the traits panel, preferably with a trait profile option so we can save builds. We want to play, not manage our setup over and over again.

[Icefire]

Looks like we just lost what little utility we had.

Uh, I'm sorry, but what kind of utility do you think we had before, and what do you see us losing? LITTLE utility? This just plain boggles the mind.

I suppose narrow-minded or fundamentalist players who chose spam-skills for their playstyle might find the changes rough to swallow, but I don't see where this comment has any validity in an objective sense.

Delivering us the ability to have substantial power deliverability in our Benedictions of Peace line along with a much more multi-skill-friendly healing process is a significant boon to our healing role. Clearly the Shall Not Fall... (oops, Improved Do Not Fall This Day) GREATLY increases our fellowship/raid/small-fellowship survival utility. There are so many tools at our disposal, that I guess it's forgivable that the embarrassment of riches we just got to multi-faceted utility actually falls deaf on some ears.

[AlphaMan]

Really disliking the % bonuses for being further traited into a line. This will be just one more reason for Raid Leaders to insist we retrait for every raid, or even multiple times within a raid. Everyone else gets to join a raid, do it, and afterwards be put right back where they were. RK have to drop what they are doing, travel to a town, spend money to retrait, then retrait again, then travel back to where they were questing. It's a time and money sink.

For the hundredth time -- please please as RK dev advocate for a system that allows retraits from the traits panel, preferably with a trait profile option so we can save builds. We want to play, not manage our setup over and over again.

Isn't that the way it is now though? Not saying it's fun or anything...
Some kind of portable bard would be nice, though it might defeat the purpose of choosing trait lines. Maybe the ministrel could trait "bard line" and become a bard... heh
OR our RUNE-STONES could be bards! Strumming air guitars while they parried the enemy's blows, healing us and taking threat, all the while 'rocking' out. I'm serious - perfect solution.

[Gondalen_Drake]

"Epic Conclusion continues to be a cornerstone of Solitary Thunder damage dealing, but a thorn in the side of PvMP players everywhere. We’ve decided to take another step towards our goal of keeping the skill exciting, strong and potent, while removing some of the one shot kill potential."

I have been here long enough to remember various developers stating that no PvE changes would be done for the sake of PvMP concerns, and strenuously denying that PvMP had anything to do with changes we suspected originated from there (e.g. 10s stealth cooldown). We were repeatedly told that PvMP balancing would be done on the Creep side. So I would like to know why this is changing. Are we looking from now on at further PvMP balancing affecting PvE?

i think the answer is clear. they are makin pvmp free to pay. They want the f2p pvmp players tto spend TP on new pvmp classes. What do you think will happen if those new f2p reavers get blasted with epic conclusion as they are seen? right, they wont spend anymore TP on pvmp....

[opurt]

I am loath to admit this, but this disparity between weapon and tactical growth rates wasn’t realized until rather late in beta. The DPS numbers we were getting from tactical classes compared to weapon classes were way off from what we saw and liked at level 65. As such, you can expect a follow-up pass on Rune-keeper legacies at some point in the future.

Really? All tactical classes? Makes me want to go give my LM a big old hug and let her know that things will be ok. Eventually.

[Zombie_Columbus]

Not that I understand RKs that much, but the last page jumped out at me with the mention of Tactical damage not stacking up to weapon based damage. Can we get clarification on how out of whack this really is? Are we talking orders of magnitude different or just a few percent off?

Also, I'm assuming this will also apply to Minstrels and Lore-masters, right?

More then a few percent, less then an order of magnitude.

And yes, all tactical classes will be effected (ie: LM and Mini)