For Your perusal

[Orion]

http://my.lotro.com/user-55/2011/11/...with-update-5/

[Sarmon]

Looks interesting. The one thing that really stands out as a glaring, why? Is the 15 minute cooldown for Never Surrender. I thought the general consensus was that the game was moving away from long cooldowns to the big ooh NO skills being 5-10 minutes max. Guardians get a much shorter cooldown on pledge. RK gets a much shorter cooldown on Rez and big heals. Mins has short cooldowns on theirs. This just stands out as not fitting with the once per fight or twice for long hard boss battles skills we have been seeing.

[Kirkdog]

Thanks for the update. So am I understanding this right that if we use 5 basic builders in 10 seconds we get a 5% increase to the partial BPE total or a 5% increase to partial block, 5% increase to partial parry, and 5% increase to partial evade?

Also, what is the tactical defense that you mention being incorporated into tactical mastery and tied to might? Is that resistance? Or mitigation? Either way, a welcomed bonus.

Sounds like some good steps in the right direction. I look forward to seeing them in action. Also looking forward to seeing my outgoing healing jumping from 0.5% to 20%.

[Bonasty-EU]

I wonder will the healing from Resoulution and Fierce resolve, EoB go up as well much or at all?

[Orion]

Looks interesting. The one thing that really stands out as a glaring, why? Is the 15 minute cooldown for Never Surrender. I thought the general consensus was that the game was moving away from long cooldowns to the big ooh NO skills being 5-10 minutes max. Guardians get a much shorter cooldown on pledge. RK gets a much shorter cooldown on Rez and big heals. Mins has short cooldowns on theirs. This just stands out as not fitting with the once per fight or twice for long hard boss battles skills we have been seeing.

The skill lasts for 5 minutes. If it never triggers the cool down is really 10 minutes.

[Orion]

Thanks for the update. So am I understanding this right that if we use 5 basic builders in 10 seconds we get a 5% increase to the partial BPE total or a 5% increase to partial block, 5% increase to partial parry, and 5% increase to partial evade?

Also, what is the tactical defense that you mention being incorporated into tactical mastery and tied to might? Is that resistance? Or mitigation? Either way, a welcomed bonus.

Sounds like some good steps in the right direction. I look forward to seeing them in action. Also looking forward to seeing my outgoing healing jumping from 0.5% to 20%.

EEP! That was supposed to be Tactical Offence and Outgoing Healing. Stupid baby brain.

[Feybobiam]

The skill lasts for 5 minutes. If it never triggers the cool down is really 10 minutes.

Not sure I agree with that as a balancing factor for why the cooldown is so long, but at least those are your thoughts on it. If it had some other buff attached to the 5m duration that was removed with the death immunity that might be nice. I see where you're coming from though, for at MOST five minutes you won't die, but it could be that you'd (normally) die in the first 10s. If there's a buff attached to the duration, it might give more incentive to hit it proactively rather than reactively. I know I'd basically treat it like an oh-#### button if I were in that position. Reactive skills are way better than proactive in this game, (FH, Pledge, Last Stand), so to make proactive worth it, you gotta make 'em tasty.

Just speaking from a neutral standpoint, I know little about Wardens.

[Mercuro]

thanks for the heads up Orion,

I wonder will the healing from Resoulution and Fierce resolve, EoB go up as well much or at all?

indeed, are the damages and heal scaled as well?

[Sarmon]

The skill lasts for 5 minutes. If it never triggers the cool down is really 10 minutes.

Ok not trying to nitpick here. Following this logic this leads us to the conclusion that Guardians pledge has an actual cooldown of 4 minutes 45 seconds. Still not really seeing how this makes our big save ourselves and most likely the group comparable. Maybe look at it this way. The skill lasts for 5 minutes ,which is very nice, has a cooldown of 10 minutes. So using your reasoning it would then have a cooldown of 5 minutes putting us on par with the other classes. If you changed the cooldown to 10 minutes.

[grinko.at]

One thing that I miss - Warden Gambit lines should be progressive, i.e. the next tier of a gambit should do basically the same thing as the lower tier, only better or with added effects. Deflection and Aggression break with that rule, they do the exact opposite and are only different in one (the last) builder.

A single lag, messed up timing or something like that changes a massive Threat increase into a massive Threat drop, with potentially devastating results.

My proposal: Change Deflection to be Shield-Fist-Spear-Shield-Spear, so it isn't in the same line as Aggression. Would also fit the theme of the gambit better, and the 5-icon version prevents any gambit mistakes, so the Warden drops aggro only if he really wants to.

[Protoss360]

Thanks for keeping us in the loop. When update 5 comes we will still take the same huge amount of damage we take currently compared to heavy users but can compensate by stacking high might to heal through it. I love the partial BPE buff through our default gambit builder, very smart. Overall its progress and i am pleased and i only hope in update 5 i wont get so many crits against me as if multiple mobs are inflicting crits i am in trouble.

[tikt]

EEP! That was supposed to be Tactical Offence and Outgoing Healing. Stupid baby brain.

You didn't answer the other question about partials. :P I'm guessing it's 1% to each partial (so 3% to total partial BPE) per basic builder used in a 10-second span. Please confirm (or deny)! This is a peculiar (but not unwelcome) idea. Just wondering what the thought process was here. Initially you had said these would be tied to defensive gambits?

The blog does have a sound of finality to it so we'll be holding you to your word. (muahahaha)

[Hudson7]

Overall I think this is a good start, 2 questions though:

1. What about our morale leaches, are they scaling with level too?
2. The partial values with the builders seems VERY small, max of 5%? Or does each builder have its own buff such that you could get this to 15%? There are level 55 relics which provide 10% to these. Perhaps another pass here to help out as I do like the idea, just doesn't seem strong enough to really help much at all.

[tikt]

My proposal: Change Deflection to be Shield-Fist-Spear-Shield-Spear, so it isn't in the same line as Aggression. Would also fit the theme of the gambit better, and the 5-icon version prevents any gambit mistakes, so the Warden drops aggro only if he really wants to.

This, except keep at a length 3 gambit (Shield-Fist-Spear) - the one before Shield Tactics? iirc

[tikt]

Overall I think this is a good start, 2 questions though:

1. The partial values with the builders seems VERY small, max of 5%? Or does each builder have its own buff such that you could get this to 15%? There are level 55 relics which provide 10% to these. Perhaps another pass here to help out as I do like the idea, just doesn't seem strong enough to really help much at all.

I think he means partial BPE chance, not mitigation. Assuming this breaks the 10% cap, we could have up to 15% partial chance at any given time.

[Smugmug]

Can we get something to make us less squishy when we're stunned? Unless you want us to use Shield Tactics in a way that surpasses most humans cognitive abilities (as in, seeing into the future. Because 90% of stuns don't have an indicator).

Or are the heals actually getting buffed that much that they make up for the differences in taken damage when stunned?

[Liltaro]

Sounds interesting. But:
1. Will these HoTs scale depending on solo/fellow/raid situation? If you just bump them by 100% we are back in preRoI business. OP solo gods, maybe in 3-mans. Quite balanced in 6-man. And not needed in raid if there is any guardian on sight.
2. Any changes in buffs/HoTs durations? Choose HoTs or buffs? No chance that we have both at current durations. Someone needs to make aggro too.
3. Any ideas about our squishness just after pull?

Anyway, thanks for blog and posts

[horus418]

I think he means partial BPE chance, not mitigation. Assuming this breaks the 10% cap, we could have up to 15% partial chance at any given time.

I certainly hope that this is the case. Orion, please let us know.

Regarding Tactical Mastery rating, will we be given 10 points per point of might, or 4 points as is current (with will),?

[HunterByHeart]

Thanks for the update. So am I understanding this right that if we use 5 basic builders in 10 seconds we get a 5% increase to the partial BPE total or a 5% increase to partial block, 5% increase to partial parry, and 5% increase to partial evade?

Thanks for all the fixes, Orion. Can’t wait to see them in action.

I am guessing that there is a relationship, for instance, Sp ->parry, Sh->Block and Fi->Evade. So each hit with single builder +1% of each partial BPE.

For stacking 5 times, together 5 times or Partial B 5 time, Partial P 5 times and partial E 5 times, total can be +15%? It does NOT seem matter. As within any given 10 sec, you probably only can hit single builder around 4-6 times.

Overall is +5% partial BPE, which in turn times 35% partial mitigation default, (unless you slot the relic to boost up Partial BPE mitigation)

5%*35% = 1.75% damage reduced.

[Bels_illuminati]

Is anyone else struggling to get this page to load?

Want to see!

EDIT:
If it's not too long can someone perhaps copy it into this thread? I fear my mylotro problems won't allow me to ever see this otherwise!

[Tolfast]

Is anyone else struggling to get this page to load?

Want to see!

EDIT:
If it's not too long can someone perhaps copy it into this thread? I fear my mylotro problems won't allow me to ever see this otherwise!

I could not get it to load in google chrome worked fine in IE..

-I like the buffs to partial BPE %.
-Nice work on shield tactics buff applying pre animation
-NS losing the debuff = GREAT NEWS!! I will no longer be gimped for not dying
-Heal scaling and tact of might = great move!!
-Double builders faster anim

Things to consider:
- A buff to partial mitigations (currently 35% without relics)
- Shield Tactics needs to prevent vs knockdowns / dazes too, because we are affected by stuns so badly them
- Bleed bonuses damage is still common!!
- Some sort of buff when we enter combat to enable us to have a bit of extra bpe for 15 seconds, to help us survive the first rotation

Again thanks for listening, though I am sure you will agree the class still needs some work even with these updates

[Bels_illuminati]

Ty Tol I scraped the dust off IE and it seems to work!

Man it really is a terrible browser, still at least it works

EDIT:
Having read it it seems more like a list of fixes really. The class is going to hinge on the self heal scaling by the looks of things as there aren't really any buffs anywhere else (partial is nice but not a game-changer). I don't have a problem with this approach of course, with gear and tactics even now we're not that bad, just too far behind the other main tanks. I just hope it all goes to plan!
The animations are an extremely welcome change, was very disappointing not to see anything new when RoI released.
Overall I'm happy, although of course we still need our 'month of' to look at traitlines, gear, legacies, defunct threat gambits etc etc. I hope this doesn't end up being our overhaul!

The only thing I would add is ST making us immune to knockdowns. In PvE tanking you can count the mobs that stun at 75 on one hand, but the mobs that knockdown seem infinite. And in PvP it's a pointless gambit to use as any warg worth their salt will simply Conj or go for a lucky Knockdown atm. Not to mention the fact that spiders will still be able to daze us

[MeLoWaR]

Overall great changes , thanks for listenning to your playerbase.
Have some cookies :P

[Harc]

Thank you for these changes. You mentioned in another post that missing from low agility was going to be addressed. Is there any news on that?

There are two things I personally am concerned about:
1. Will our Fierce Resolve line also scale? The Exultation I got from Battle has not been the same since level 60
2. Can Battle Memory have reduced costs? At 14000 morale, it costs 700 morale to activate a Warden's Triumph. Factor in the misses, avoidance, and mitigation and it's almost a one to one exchange. If you add to that opponents with some kind of damage reflect, you're on the losing end for attacking. It's even nastier when you're tanking.

[Aeronth]

It seems the warden has become a single-trait-line class...
We're so squishy that we'll only focus on avoidance and HoTs.
Our threat generation is so powerful that we barely think about keeping aggro.
The gambit system is very unique, interesting and challenging, and yet since RoI I feel like I don't *think* anymore. There never is a choice to be made. I realized our gameplay has become very poor, actually.

Is that the "balance" the warden community wanted to achieve ?
I'm tired of this. I'd better waste my time somewhere else.

Farewell.