Update 5: Instance Cluster Dev Diary Feedback

[Clover]

In this update we have a total of 5 instances -- three small fellowships, one fellowship, and one raid. There are 15 boss fights, two difficulty tiers, 10 challenges, over 75 new monsters, 250 new skills, 500 new effects, 200 new chest drops, and 54 new armour sets! Read more in today's Developer Diary from Joe 'jwbarry' Barry and post your comments here!

[KneelBeforeZod]

Looks great! Nice to see gear upgrading being introduced.

[Logical86]

250 new skills

I don't seem to have any of these on my characters. Is there an error? Seems I should have about 10 new skills per class?

[Keirion]

I don't seem to have any of these on my characters. Is there an error? Seems I should have about 10 new skills per class?

Monsters have new skills, not players.

[Alakranus]

Great dev diary, will definitely begin digging into the new instances tonight!

[Overtone]

First, I can't state this enough, thank you JWBarry for your work on OD. That Raid was truly epic and awesome. The best in LOTRO imo. Your outstanding work restored my faith in LOTRO endgame content. As a result, I can't wait to hit the new RoI Instance Cluster and take on the new Raid.

I know there are a lot of lore-hounds that have their panties in a bunch because we get to fight against Sarumen in the new Raid. I for one am thrilled to get the opportunity. I haven't seen the new content yet, but based on the Diary, I am happy to see the Lore playing a huge part in motivating the story behind the cluster.

The new rewards look awesome too. Love the idea of the necklace improving as you go, and am very happy to see a variety of gear sets and choices for min/maxing.

Good times appear to be ahead for us Raiders. Orthanc looks to be full of fun.

[Thermight]

JWBarry, I agree, your work in OD was fantastic and game-changing for Lotro. Looking forward to this new design. Sounds like much fun. Pah to the minor bugs. Those of us who completed Draigoch T2 in the first week will prove that they are not a big deal in Update 5 either.

And I was inspired to play Demon's Souls and Dark Souls because of it. The approach, "you will die, but you will learn not to" works well. Masterable and not luck-based content is great for the Raiding community.

[bastiat1]

OD was awesome. I'm crossing my fingers that Orthanc is as comparable.

[joshubl01]

From what I have played so far, the new cluster seems great! Great graphics, cool looking bosses and challenging fights. The one complaint I have is this. If you leave the instance to repair, it resets the quest. If it said that in the quest, I wouldnt have left, but it does not. When u get to the last boss and realize u have to start all over again, there is nothing more frustrating. I hated it when this was done with North Cotton Farms, and I am very disappointed to see this again. If you don't want players to leave an instance and come back, then you should state it. Unless this is a bug,

Overall tho, great new stuff!

[MurkyMajare]

A 5 seal reward for the 6-mans... when you need 180 (ish) just for the cheapest of the new armour pieces seems... kinda low.

[EvernightsNo1Player]

The new instances are WAY to easy, its daft how easy the 6man is, any group could do it, we strolled in last night for 1st time with a messy grp, had a champ tanking and cappy done most heals and it was so god damn easy. I rem SG and Temple and foro and the old moria runs on the 1st time, was alot of fun learning all the fights and tactics and taking a few goes to get it all sorted, now every run is on farm for my kin and its not even 24hrs since release, turbine what the hell is wrong with you

[Fudoshin]

The new instances are WAY to easy, its daft how easy the 6man is, any group could do it, we strolled in last night for 1st time with a messy grp, had a champ tanking and cappy done most heals and it was so god damn easy. I rem SG and Temple and foro and the old moria runs on the 1st time, was alot of fun learning all the fights and tactics and taking a few goes to get it all sorted, now every run is on farm for my kin and its not even 24hrs since release, turbine what the hell is wrong with you

Go and do the lightning boss challenge mode (don't wory you will have to, it's bugged apparently) in the tower, that should brighten your day.

[Chris91]

The new instances are WAY to easy, its daft how easy the 6man is, any group could do it, we strolled in last night for 1st time with a messy grp, had a champ tanking and cappy done most heals and it was so god damn easy. I rem SG and Temple and foro and the old moria runs on the 1st time, was alot of fun learning all the fights and tactics and taking a few goes to get it all sorted, now every run is on farm for my kin and its not even 24hrs since release, turbine what the hell is wrong with you

We went into the Foundry T1 yesterday with Guard, RK, RK and got the first boss to 100k

We thought, hey, these could be some more difficult instances, nice..then we realised it is a 6-man

I mean, we played together the first time, and 1 or 2 more tries and we would have killed him

[EvernightsNo1Player]

Go and do the lightning boss challenge mode (don't wory you will have to, it's bugged apparently) in the tower, that should brighten your day.

done all the instances T2 within few hours of patch being out, and its not a brag by any means anyone and i mean literally anyone could do them with any grp, and some might say well casuals will be happy who wants to wipe, but it just means that there is no challenge or learning curve, all the runs are simples and your already bored of them. I can only assume turbine are catering to kids now or something.

[Maxal]

I wish to say great work to the story writers of the Epic line. That was a very well thought out, well written story.

As for the new bosses I have run into so far, they are difficult and a challenge. A couple seem a little over the top right now, but I am still holding my opinion on those right now. But the fights are interesting and fun to me right now. I guess that means I do not know the secert to the bosses yet.


The IF is a real pain. As of this date I have not been placed into a balanced 3 man yet. A tank a Burg and a Hunter do not make a good three man group where healing is required. Also a RK that is traited for DPS does not make a healer for a 3 man either. So works need to be done there.

I would say the Support role needs to be defined better. It seems like I am always in a Support + Defense + DPS 3 man. Not working. I would also suggest a new forum for comments on the IF.

This is the first time I feel the store has been pushed too much. I think the finance folks need to take a step back or you are going to start losing folks in the next few months.

Overall I would say the update is enjoyable.

Good work everyone!!!!

[Fudoshin]

done all the instances T2 within few hours of patch being out, and its not a brag by any means anyone and i mean literally anyone could do them with any grp, and some might say well casuals will be happy who wants to wipe, but it just means that there is no challenge or learning curve, all the runs are simples and your already bored of them. I can only assume turbine are catering to kids now or something.

It's not only not bragging, it's not true (unless you didn't read and are talking about 3/6 mans only), why make such silly comments?? some of them might not even be possible currently but at any rate, there is certainly a very solid learning curve in the raid, OD is fairly simple by comparison from what I have seen.

[EvernightsNo1Player]

It's not only not bragging, it's not true (unless you didn't read and are talking about 3/6 mans only), why make such silly comments?? some of them might not even be possible currently but at any rate, there is certainly a very solid learning curve in the raid, OD is fairly simple by comparison from what I have seen.

I assumed you would use basic logic and figure instances didnt include the raid, we were discussing the 6 and 3man runs and just simpler to call them instances, dont know anyone who talks about instances and doing instances and are referring to 12 or 24man raids.

[Fudoshin]

You asked what the hell was wrong with Turbine because they hadn't created any content you consider challenging, I pointed out there is plenty of challenge if that's what you want, just because you consider 3-6 man instances too easy doesn't mean Turbine hasn't created a challenge. The logic of assuming I would only talk about what you found easy when you were looking for challenge is pretty illogical, and just because Evernightsno1player might find stuff easy doesn't mean everyone else will, I know many people are having trouble doing Fangorns Edge challenge.

Main point, rather than whine that easy stuff (3-6 man is generally expected to be fairly simple) is too easy, go do something difficult as I suggested, then swing the e-peen around at Turbine asking for something tougher.

[Thornpaw]

Ok so the raid. We are up to Phase 5, yes you read that correctly, phase 5 of Saruman. 11 Sarumans area attacking and punting you off of Orthanc? Whoever thought this was going to be fun for players? I literally put the Benny Hill theme on in the background as we get murdered. And this is Tier 1. The level of rage by everyone in the group as yet another group of Sarumans appears is incredible. Our vent is filled expletives. I mean we have people who are generally calm screaming at each other. Some of us are convinced that the rings are ACTUALLY twisting our minds in real life.

[erGoTiK]

In this update we have a total of 5 instances -- three small fellowships, one fellowship, and one raid. There are 15 boss fights, two difficulty tiers, 10 challenges, over 75 new monsters, 250 new skills, 500 new effects, 200 new chest drops, and 54 new armour sets!

/rage
Can you count the number of bugs please?
/endrage

[dietlbomb]

We continued to push on enhancing and differentiating our difficulty tiers. Tier 1 remains focused on the casual pug player, offering a path for anyone to get in the instances and play. Tier 2 retains its target on kinships and established groups. Finally, Challenge is still for those that like to push the boundaries of their groups. With Isengard we focused on ensuring that each new level was noticeable and significant. Going up a difficulty Tier should come with an impact on gameplay.

Maybe I don't understand this game very well, but I cannot see how Tier 1 of the Tower of Orthanc raid can be completed by group of casual pug players. Just one wing, the acid wing, was a nightmare in the one run I tried, and I am told that this is the easiest wing.

Joe: Ultimately we want people in the largest group size and hardest difficulty that we can nudge them up towards. Ideally players are thinking, "Sweet! We handled a three-man on Tier II and we totally almost finished the challenge, and that six-man over there, from what we've heard, isn't too bad. Let's see if we can find a couple buddies." Our goal is to get people to push a little bit outside their comfort zone and explore and find a little bit more of the game.

Jared: Or the "Punch You in the Face" meter.

We came, we saw, we got punched in the face.

[Aelgerion]

Just some brief feedback on the 3-mans so far. Overall, I think it needs some balancing. That and the instance armor sets are too pricy - those should be priced either similar or slightly less than the Dragioch set (option for either medallions or seals but not requiring both).

Fangorn T1 feels about right and isn't too difficult to complete with a pug. T2 also feels about right from a challenge standpoint with a pre-made balanced group.

DU T1 is just ridiculous. To date, it's still the only one I haven't finished. To be clear, I've attempted this one only in groups with a Captain as the healer, me as the tank with cappedhigh mitigations & 15k morale, and a champ/hunter. The end boss AOE is just flat out ridiculous in damage. It would be one thing to allow a 10 second "tell" on the maneuver so you have a chance to get the heck out of there, but the way it is now is just plain difficult for difficulty sake - no challenge other than praying you don't get stunned right before the AOE happens (good luck with that). I would recommend to Turbine, either add a longer "tell" or reduce the AOE on T1, possibly both to make it completable by a pug. T2 is probably just fine.

Pits on T1/T2 are a bit high on the AOE side but are generally a bit harder than Fangorn.

[Vandervahn]

I agree with DU Tier1. Its just a bit stupid to sit there looking at a stopwatch while chewing down 450k with 1 and a half DPS classes. And while Tier2 is faster, any DPS class in there will be sidelined for almost the entire fight.

Maybe I don't understand this game very well, but I cannot see how Tier 1 of the Tower of Orthanc raid can be completed by group of casual pug players. Just one wing, the acid wing, was a nightmare in the one run I tried, and I am told that this is the easiest wing. ...

I believe this is a bit of a misnomer. You can "pug" it with "casual" players, but not beat a Tier1 ring with too many people without decent experience in group play. So "pugging it" rather means assemble a random team of group players, but not a group of random players.

[Traur]

Just some brief feedback on the 3-mans so far. Overall, I think it needs some balancing. That and the instance armor sets are too pricy - those should be priced either similar or slightly less than the Dragioch set (option for either medallions or seals but not requiring both).

Fangorn T1 feels about right and isn't too difficult to complete with a pug. T2 also feels about right from a challenge standpoint with a pre-made balanced group.

DU T1 is just ridiculous. To date, it's still the only one I haven't finished. To be clear, I've attempted this one only in groups with a Captain as the healer, me as the tank with cappedhigh mitigations & 15k morale, and a champ/hunter. The end boss AOE is just flat out ridiculous in damage. It would be one thing to allow a 10 second "tell" on the maneuver so you have a chance to get the heck out of there, but the way it is now is just plain difficult for difficulty sake - no challenge other than praying you don't get stunned right before the AOE happens (good luck with that). I would recommend to Turbine, either add a longer "tell" or reduce the AOE on T1, possibly both to make it completable by a pug. T2 is probably just fine.

Pits on T1/T2 are a bit high on the AOE side but are generally a bit harder than Fangorn.

I have 2-manned DU T1 boss with my champ-tank and a mini, didn't seem too hard, just have to be aware when to run from his aoe (I just use the red buff he gets just before going into aoe). You can do the sunlight on T1 troll if you want to speed it up.

I haven't tried pits T2 yet, but T1 felt really interesting. T1 fangorn is too easy, any group with a good champion can get through (hell I know that a good champion can solo it). I like T2 fangorn, requires decent group balance and skill.

[Aelgerion]

I have 2-manned DU T1 boss with my champ-tank and a mini, didn't seem too hard, just have to be aware when to run from his aoe (I just use the red buff he gets just before going into aoe). You can do the sunlight on T1 troll if you want to speed it up.

I haven't tried pits T2 yet, but T1 felt really interesting. T1 fangorn is too easy, any group with a good champion can get through (hell I know that a good champion can solo it). I like T2 fangorn, requires decent group balance and skill.

Ya, I think the problem I'm having with the T1 DU boss is that I always seem to have a Captain as a healer - tough to find a mini/rk on through the instance finder. They just can't heal enough through the spike damage - perhaps they aren't spec'ed properly for it but I'm not an expert there. With a good mini/rk healing me, it would probably be easier.

My only consideration for it is I thought 3 man's were intended to have a wider group variety - forcing you to have a healer just to get through is a bit off in my opinion.