Anthems removed from Fellow on Coda use (other than AoW)

[Gillianrial]

If I am reading the patch notes correctly, Anthem of War is supposed to be removed from our fellow if we use our Coda.

However, I am seeing other Anthems being removed immediately on Coda use as well - including Anthem of Composure. Pretty big bug if not intended.

Here is the wording from the Patch Notes:

"Enhanced duration and removal of the buff now work correctly on Anthem of War applied to fellows. The buff is removed from all members of the fellowship when the coda is activated."

Thoughts?

[Norana]

I don't know why they added this in the first place cause it seemed fine the way it was. Now you got codas removing all buffs from your fellowship resulting in a second minstrel from your fellow having their ballads and anthems removed as well.

[Auirman]

No sir, don't like it. Don't like it one bit.

[Tamiya]

This cannot possibly be working as intended.

[CurtMonash]

Related point (easy to test, but I haven't):

Does War-Speech's "until end of combat" Anthem of War now apply to fellows as well?

[Gillianrial]

Related point (easy to test, but I haven't):

Does War-Speech's "until end of combat" Anthem of War now apply to fellows as well?

No - it lasts until the anthem duration expires OR we remove it with a Coda.

However, other anthems are being removed now as well.

[Bunian]

i dont like it either. before update 5, i can happily go 4Y +3R trait line, and spam ballad-ballad-ballad-anyanthem-coda, doing heals and damage at same time and the buffs stays on my fellows until they expire. but now, as soon as i hit coda, all the buffs disappear from my fellows... i'm not sure which implementation is correct, prior u5 or after u5, but if you see the coda description it does say "removes anthem on minstrel; removes anthem from minstrel" ... i hope the dev can give us clearer explanation on this....

[twittfounder]

I may be confused...but I thought using the codas removed anthem buffs accross the board (prior) to this update.

I don't recall if a second minstrel in a group removed anthem buffs via a coda...that could be problematic.

[PhantomPunkk]

If I am reading the patch notes correctly, Anthem of War is supposed to be removed from our fellow if we use our Coda.

However, I am seeing other Anthems being removed immediately on Coda use as well - including Anthem of Composure. Pretty big bug if not intended.

Here is the wording from the Patch Notes:

"Enhanced duration and removal of the buff now work correctly on Anthem of War applied to fellows. The buff is removed from all members of the fellowship when the coda is activated."

Thoughts?

Hover over your Coda. It says something like effect applied to fellowship within 80M, that effect being Anthems being removed. WAI I'd guess.

[Yaviere]

Read it again. It says the anthem is removed FROM MINSTREL. Not from your fellowship but that is exactly what happens now.

[Gillianrial]

Read it again. It says the anthem is removed FROM MINSTREL. Not from your fellowship but that is exactly what happens now.

I will look again when ballads/anthems are active, but my recollection is that it said 'removed from minstrel.' That said, the patch notes (unclearly) indicate that AoW IS supposed to be removed from the fellow on Coda use (I think), but it seems others are as well

[Katz24]

We have submitted a bug report as well. When one minstrel in a two minstrel group hits a coda, it resets the other minstrels tiers as well, so they have to start tiering up all over again. Assume this was not intended and the text states that it removes it from the minstrel, not the group. Makes it difficult when one is healing and one is in WS. Please submit a bug report in game for this.

[Orion]

Anthems being removed from fellows is correct.

Minstrels removing other minstrels is incorrect.

[Amicu]

If coda deletes effects from everyone shouldn't they also receive some of the positive effects we get from the wiping of anthems (only those that apply like the hot/pot from aotf and aoc)?

[Tamiya]

Anthems being removed from fellows is correct.

Why is this change necessary?

In U4, the coda removes anthems on just the minstrel.
In U5, the coda removes anthems on everyone.

It's a very severe penalty for using the coda, and especially for Harmony, whatever "healing while contributing a little a bit of DPS" design intent it had originally is totally killed now because I can no longer use the coda to contribute that dps. My group now loses DPS when I use my coda because it wipes Anthem of War and Prowess off them.

I don't see any benefit in staying in Harmony now. The Anthem of Third Age effect (both Anthem and coda) for the Harmony stance has been useless all along, but the stance was worth it for the coda aoe dps+heal, and I can't afford to use that now.

Guess it's back to permanent Melody for -induction goodness.

[bastiat1]

Anthems being removed from fellows is correct.

Minstrels removing other minstrels is incorrect.

Why would you do that? And why wouldn't you at least put it in the Release Notes rather than stealth it in like the Coda damage. It's incredibly out of character for a Dev that has previously been very active and open on these forums.

This basically kills the Coda, not only that this COMPLETELY KILLS Harmony, which was THE awesome addition to the Minstrel class changes. There is no way that the Coda effect is ever going to be worth taking the time to reapply 3 ballads and 4-5 buffs. The Coda is DOA now for Harmony builds- which was the "Mastery" class you envisioned. And if you never use the Coda there is no point in every being in Harmony and not getting the healing boost from Melody: Anthem of the Third Age.

[Orion]

See other thread where I explain that the Coda damage change was not intentional.

Permanent buffs, transferred to the fellowship, need to be removed by the coda. (Like AoW.)

I could have sworn that was in the release notes.

[JaceGaiter]

See other thread where I explain that the Coda damage change was not intentional.

Permanent buffs, transferred to the fellowship, need to be removed by the coda. (Like AoW.)

I could have sworn that was in the release notes.

I totally agree with it removing the permanent buffs part. But my understanding from before was that the permanent was only for the minstrel that cast the anthem, is this a change?

Also I think that there are two issues currently with the anthems. I was running in a kin group with 2 other minstrels and anytime one of us used the coda it wiped "all" anthems that were up. It kept up my ballad buffs, but it required me to tier up again to be able to use coda, or an anthem. The second issue is that the coda is wiping more than just the permanent anthems from the fellowship. You are basically having to choose between using the coda at all, and having any anthems up on your fellowship. I totally see the logic in wiping the permanent anthem (You have to choose), but it shouldn't wipe the anthems that are on a countdown. As was stated why would I trait for 35 second anthems and 5 second cooldown and run harmony, if one of my primary tools (Coda of Resonance) is going to completely undo what I traited for.

[CurtMonash]

Why is this change necessary?

In U4, the coda removes anthems on just the minstrel.
In U5, the coda removes anthems on everyone.

It's a very severe penalty for using the coda, and especially for Harmony, whatever "healing while contributing a little a bit of DPS" design intent it had originally is totally killed now because I can no longer use the coda to contribute that dps. My group now loses DPS when I use my coda because it wipes Anthem of War and Prowess off them.

I don't see any benefit in staying in Harmony now. The Anthem of Third Age effect (both Anthem and coda) for the Harmony stance has been useless all along, but the stance was worth it for the coda aoe dps+heal, and I can't afford to use that now.

Guess it's back to permanent Melody for -induction goodness.

I rarely bother with Harmony.

If you run the numbers and construct theoretical scenarios in which it's a good thing to start a fight with, it's hard to think of practical examples that match them.

One possible exception: It would perhaps make sense to start a boss fight with Harmony up just for the EoB. Also, if the AoTA buff lasts past the dropping of Harmony (I haven't tested that), it might make sense to start a generic long fight with Harmony up to get that, with AoW being the second Anthem for the group, after the tank has secured aggro.

[Orion]

Thanks Jace,

That clears it up. I can see what is happening now. I am going to need to make a change to the way that these are removed, which means that the perm skills will not be passed to fellows.

[Tamiya]

Guess I'm missing something.

The only permanent anthem is Anthem of War, and that is only when in War-speech and traited deep into red.

All other anthems, including Anthem of War in other stances and trait lines, are not permanent. They last 35s at the most, and that duration takes quite some effort to achieve. Otherwise, all these anthems last just 10s.

The coda is now wiping all anthems - all of War, Prowess, Free People, and Composure - regardless of duration and permanency.

Please explain the "need" for this change. Again, this change has remove the only benefit of the Harmony stance because it locks out the usage of coda.

The patch notes specifically says Anthem of War by the way.

[bastiat1]

Anthems being removed from fellows is correct.

Permanent buffs, transferred to the fellowship, need to be removed by the coda. (Like AoW.)

I could have sworn that was in the release notes.

Okay, I hope I haven't over reacted by your first confirmation that this is wai. I can see how Permanent Buffs should be removed. As I understand it, Permanent Buffs are Dissonance:AoWar, Melody:AoCompassion, Harmony:AoThirdAge. So if it is ONLY the permanent buffs that are too be removed that is perfectly reasonable. However, the OP pointed out that AoComposure is also being wiped, and that's not a permanent buff.

Is the new design that only "permanent" Anthems are to be wiped from Fellows, or only temporary buffs like AoWar, AoComposure, AoFreePeoples etc.

[bastiat1]

I rarely bother with Harmony.

It's an advanced maneuver that's really nice for AOE healing.

[Tamiya]

I rarely bother with Harmony.

If you run the numbers and construct theoretical scenarios in which it's a good thing to start a fight with, it's hard to think of practical examples that match them.

One possible exception: It would perhaps make sense to start a boss fight with Harmony up just for the EoB. Also, if the AoTA buff lasts past the dropping of Harmony (I haven't tested that), it might make sense to start a generic long fight with Harmony up to get that, with AoW being the second Anthem for the group, after the tank has secured aggro.

Harmony is, or rather was, superior in two cases:-

i. Trash fights. You get to buff your group for DPS while you yourself also contribute significant aoe dps via the coda without having to go into war-speech to hamper your healing.

ii. Distributed damage. In Draigoch, for example, it's far easier to heal the DPS group with Harmony because it's a consistent group heal unaffected by interrupts.

In either situations, individuals who need additional heals in such situations can be topped up easily with a few traditional heals. It does rely heavily on the coda for it to work.

[Tamiya]

Thanks Jace,

That clears it up. I can see what is happening now. I am going to need to make a change to the way that these are removed, which means that the perm skills will not be passed to fellows.

Ack. Sorry for triple post. Replies to the thread are coming in faster than my own posting.

If it's not intended, then can you please hot-fix back to the previous version until it's all resolved?

The combat permanent anthems had never been passed to fellows. Compassion and Third Age affect just the minstrel, so they're irrelevant to the issue. In U4, War was permanent on just the warspeech+skald minstrel, and expires normally on fellowship members (which means the dps minstrel had to recast War constantly anyway if he wanted to maintain War on the whole group). The fellowship has never been able to benefit from permanent War in U4.