Fist-Spear Threat Up Legacy buggy on 75 1.age?

[Ela89]

Hello fellows,

just finished building my first age spear for my warden and noticed that the threat up legacy on it only goes to rating 9, which is the same as on my second age spear. shouldn't it be higher when maxed out? at least on first age guardian belts the threat up legacy is higher than on second ager belts.

Is this WAI or should i /bug it?

Thanks for your help guys

[Harperelle]

I think its WAI. You'll get extra threat through DPS with a first age weapon. Not so with a belt.

--Harper

[Ela89]

I think its WAI. You'll get extra threat through DPS with a first age weapon. Not so with a belt.

--Harper

but on a belt i have a higher shield use rank. shouldn't this make it even with the increased dps on a spear?

please excuse my english, i'm not a native speaker.

[bacho]

I was disappointed too, when I found that out. I remember the war cry and EoB threat-up ratings were highter on FA than on SA, back in the day. However, the +9 rating is on the 3rd age as well, so it probably is WAI.

[dafish1337]

Does it really not go past 9? I was hoping to get a first age weapon for my warden because I assumed that the threat rating went up like it did for guards... Oh well, I guess i can just use it for my minstrel.

[Elrendos]

Does it really not go past 9? I was hoping to get a first age weapon for my warden because I assumed that the threat rating went up like it did for guards... Oh well, I guess i can just use it for my minstrel.

While this is correct, others have already stated the main reasoning which I believe to be true as well. Guardians have the Threat Increase Legacy on their belts. If a Guardian is using a Third Age, Second Age, or First Age LI Belt... there is no DPS increase since it is not a weapon. That is why their over all Threat Increase Legacy is augmented with each better LI that they upgrade to. Wardens on the other hand have their Threat Increase Legacy on a Weapon. The actual rating remains the same on a Third Age, Second Age, and First Age only because the overall DPS of said weapon increases. More DPS= More Threat. There is no need to increase the magnitude of the Threat Increase Legacy since we are getting more Threat from the added DPS.

[tomiathon]

While this is correct, others have already stated the main reasoning which I believe to be true as well. Guardians have the Threat Increase Legacy on their belts. If a Guardian is using a Third Age, Second Age, or First Age LI Belt... there is no DPS increase since it is not a weapon. That is why their over all Threat Increase Legacy is augmented with each better LI that they upgrade to. Wardens on the other hand have their Threat Increase Legacy on a Weapon. The actual rating remains the same on a Third Age, Second Age, and First Age only because the overall DPS of said weapon increases. More DPS= More Threat. There is no need to increase the magnitude of the Threat Increase Legacy since we are getting more Threat from the added DPS.

on the other hand, guardians can also get a 1st age weapon which will also increase their threat, so there still seems to be an imbalance. yes, we can get a 1st age javelin, but after the pull, relatively little of our dps comes from javelin, so this doesn't seem to address the inequity. a guardian with a 1st age belt with scaling threat up and a 1st age weapon would seem to get a bigger boost than a warden with a 1st age weaponwith non-scaling threat up and 1st age javelin

[dafish1337]

While this is correct, others have already stated the main reasoning which I believe to be true as well. Guardians have the Threat Increase Legacy on their belts. If a Guardian is using a Third Age, Second Age, or First Age LI Belt... there is no DPS increase since it is not a weapon. That is why their over all Threat Increase Legacy is augmented with each better LI that they upgrade to. Wardens on the other hand have their Threat Increase Legacy on a Weapon. The actual rating remains the same on a Third Age, Second Age, and First Age only because the overall DPS of said weapon increases. More DPS= More Threat. There is no need to increase the magnitude of the Threat Increase Legacy since we are getting more Threat from the added DPS.

That reasoning doesn't really make sense. Guards have shield use rank which increases on a first age belt, yet their threat ratings also increase.

To your second point about threat from the added dps... the threat a warden does from 'dps' is insignificant. Parse the damage you do while tanking and you'll do maybe 100 DPS.

[Elrendos]

That reasoning doesn't really make sense. Guards have shield use rank which increases on a first age belt, yet their threat ratings also increase.

To your second point about threat from the added dps... the threat a warden does from 'dps' is insignificant. Parse the damage you do while tanking and you'll do maybe 100 DPS.

Pfft, yeah but 100 DPS is still... nevermind I see your point.

[Ravenstride]

That reasoning doesn't really make sense. Guards have shield use rank which increases on a first age belt, yet their threat ratings also increase.

To your second point about threat from the added dps... the threat a warden does from 'dps' is insignificant. Parse the damage you do while tanking and you'll do maybe 100 DPS.

This. Belt does increase Guard dps on their Shield skills which can crit for bigger numbers than WoF from behind.

dps while tanking? trust me thats not where your threat is coming from.

Im sorry to say but I think this is WAI as far as the devs are concerned. I wish First Age weapons mattered on a tank Warden but they absolutely do not and are a complete waste of a WSoC. Make yourselves some nice DPS Spears and Javelins and have fun.

[Elrendos]

This. Belt does increase Guard dps on their Shield skills which can crit for bigger numbers than WoF from behind.

dps while tanking? trust me thats not where your threat is coming from.

Im sorry to say but I think this is WAI as far as the devs are concerned. I wish First Age weapons mattered on a tank Warden but they absolutely do not and are a complete waste of a WSoC. Make yourselves some nice DPS Spears and Javelins and have fun.

WSoTEK you mean. The only thing I could see them being good for then is the extra points to distribute. And using things such as Stat Legacies would allow a greater number with a First Age.

[Ravenstride]

WSoTEK you mean. The only thing I could see them being good for then is the extra points to distribute. And using things such as Stat Legacies would allow a greater number with a First Age.

Yes ofc WSoTEK

Regarding ratings legacies, well im sure many will argue on this but I hardly ever level them. Only if everything else is maxed and I still have points left over. Reason being that +500-odd of something at rank 1 is good. +600 at rank 9 for a heavy investment of points seems like a very very poor return on investment. The exceptions are things like cappy buffs and -Resist ratings on LM (raid) books as they are the main stats on those items.

I still like having the +Crit rating or +Parry rating legacies I just think they are great as is and dont really justify pouring points into them.

That's just my opinion and how I do it. I am sure most people will not share it.

[rannion]

I largely agree with the above. IIRC r9 +parry/evade/shield block on a FA weapon gives a 648 point bonus (without crystals), whereas the unranked SA version gives 544... On vit/might legacies this might be argued to make a difference (between what, 2x41 and 2x51 or so?), but 100 pts on parry/evade is not really something I can get worked up about overmuch, especially since the legacies all affect different stats.
(The only thing I would add is that it isn't so much that these legacies aren't worth the points, but rather that they aren't worth the greater emp scrolls you need to tier them up.)

[Elrendos]

I largely agree with the above. IIRC r9 +parry/evade/shield block on a FA weapon gives a 648 point bonus (without crystals), whereas the unranked SA version gives 544... On vit/might legacies this might be argued to make a difference (between what, 2x41 and 2x51 or so?), but 100 pts on parry/evade is not really something I can get worked up about overmuch, especially since the legacies all affect different stats.
(The only thing I would add is that it isn't so much that these legacies aren't worth the points, but rather that they aren't worth the greater emp scrolls you need to tier them up.)

This is true. I found that I was not as eager to place Scrolls of Greater Empowerment on my Warden's LIs then I was on my Hunter's. There are a few Legacies that I have them on... but I just don't see a need to put them on all of them for the same reason that you said. If I am not going to invest points in a particular legacy then there is no point using Scrolls on them!

[Graalx2]

At some point the Fist-Spear Threat Up legacy was converted to a percentage increase to the threat effects used by Wardens. This should have been reflected in the legacy text, i.e. it should read +120% Fist-Spear Threat or something like that. We'll get it straitened out 'soonish'. For now just realize that the legacy ranks for this legacy are on a different scale.

As a contrast the threat up legacies used by Guardians all add a flat number to threat. This allows them to have an infinite number of ranks as the LI increases level.

[rannion]

At some point the Fist-Spear Threat Up legacy was converted to a percentage increase to the threat effects used by Wardens. This should have been reflected in the legacy text, i.e. it should read +120% Fist-Spear Threat or something like that. We'll get it straitened out 'soonish'. For now just realize that the legacy ranks for this legacy are on a different scale.

As a contrast the threat up legacies used by Guardians all add a flat number to threat. This allows them to have an infinite number of ranks as the LI increases level.

Thanks for your response. I would like to respond by noting that I find it a tad unfair that some classes gain so much less from the upgrade from SA->FA than others; and that it seems to me that this problem (insofar as I may call it that) is being exacerbated by the introduction of crystals to the game.
This is not to say that I do not appreciate being able to reach near-FA dps on my hunter bow without having to RNG a new bow (wrt majors); but that I would like it if the benefit to playstyle gained from legacies and crystals could be balanced a bit.


Going offtopic a tiny bit more: There is currently a thread in the hunter forums that explores how the various -threat options my hunter has available work; the upshot of that thread seems to me to be that while the legacies are obviously more worth getting than the -threat book, neither option scales well, given the stat uncapping. Assuming the guardian threat stuff works the same way, is it conceivable that the choice to go for "flat" threat increases will have to be reconsidered at some point in the future (or that the difference in ranks between TA/SA/FA is increased)? Because the other option I see offhand -- simply upgrading the ranks by a rather hefty amount -- would probably make it too easy after a level cap raise for guards to tank, while not helping enough once people get their gear together.

[bacho]

At some point the Fist-Spear Threat Up legacy was converted to a percentage increase to the threat effects used by Wardens. This should have been reflected in the legacy text, i.e. it should read +120% Fist-Spear Threat or something like that. We'll get it straitened out 'soonish'. For now just realize that the legacy ranks for this legacy are on a different scale.

As a contrast the threat up legacies used by Guardians all add a flat number to threat. This allows them to have an infinite number of ranks as the LI increases level.

Thanks for the response. Could you clarify, if it is "worth" it to upgrade to a FA spear? How much gain in threat are we talking about 3rd -> 2nd -> 1st?

[Elrendos]

Thanks for the response. Could you clarify, if it is "worth" it to upgrade to a FA spear? How much gain in threat are we talking about 3rd -> 2nd -> 1st?

If it is a percentage gain that can be acheived on each different type then it should be the same. What I mean is that, for example, if you have Rank 9 Fist-Spear Threat on you Third Age LI and it gives 120% Threat increase (this is an example remember) then in theory it should be the same if you put it on your Second Age or First Age LI. Am I correct in thinking this? 120% is still 120% whether you put it on a Third or First Age.

[rannion]

If it is a percentage gain that can be acheived on each different type then it should be the same.

Sure, but I guess the question is whether the strength of an EoB is affected by melee weapon DPS, or weapon age.

[Elrendos]

Sure, but I guess the question is whether the strength of an EoB is affected by melee weapon DPS, or weapon age.

Ah. Touche!

[kermie-lee]

Regarding ratings legacies, well im sure many will argue on this but I hardly ever level them. Only if everything else is maxed and I still have points left over. Reason being that +500-odd of something at rank 1 is good. +600 at rank 9 for a heavy investment of points seems like a very very poor return on investment. The exceptions are things like cappy buffs and -Resist ratings on LM (raid) books as they are the main stats on those items.

I still like having the +Crit rating or +Parry rating legacies I just think they are great as is and dont really justify pouring points into them.

That's just my opinion and how I do it. I am sure most people will not share it.

That's how I roll as well, Raven. Pouring a couple hundred LI points into a legacy just to make a rating go up 100ish just doesn't seem right. For that much investment, the rating should double imo. 500 rating at rank 1 could top out at 1000 at rank 9 and I don't think it'd break the game.