What's your reason for defending Turbine?

[aad0italian]

I am amazed at the amount of Turbine apologists there are. This company has continuously screwed over it's player base, and yet people still defend this company to nail and bone, and I am trying to figure out why.

Before my rant continues, let me first start off saying I love this game, it's been my favorite video game EVER and I want to continue on playing it, but I am 100% dissatisfied with Turbine as a whole.

1)There general lack of communication with the player base is astounding. I can't imagine being on the PR side of Turbine/WB, I imagine it's a living hell. I feel like the pre-orders for Rohan came out WAY to early considering the amount of information we have received about it. Then when we (the players) request more information about things we don't hear about it at all.

2)The cost for this EXPANSION (not game, hence the emphasis on expansion) is so ridiculously high I nearly deleted my account when I saw it. 70 dollars for the top package, that's more than the cost of a new game on any console out there. And come September, there won't be any instances with it for probably another 1-2 months after release. We were told a 6th inventory bag would be coming with the pre-order, little did we know we would be having to pay for the most expensive one out there. Even still 40 dollars is too much, that's nearly as much as I paid for the top pre-order for Isengard. Not pre-ordering until the price drops.

3)Turbine not only doesn't deliver what's they have promised to us, but they are dishonest. Ever since Mirkwood there has been talk about a new PvMP map, and PvMP overhaul, and there has been no such thing. The commendation system they implemented is a huge fail in and of itself, and the moors is as unbalanced as ever.

4) It's been MONTHS since the lag came with update 6, and where are we at in fixing it? Nowhere near it, we don't even know what the problem is STILL! First they said it had nothing to do with their servers because everything was fine on their end (lol). We're still experiencing the lag and stable mount hitching Turbine!

Edit: Adding a 5th
5)Releasing buggy content. Dragon has been out for a long time now and that raid is still buggy. Anyone remember the pits of isengard (not the instance, the area in the cave in dunland) area? Remember how you couldn't navigate through there without falling through the dang floor? Ridiculous.

These are fice of the most important issues I've come across with Turbine. Trust me, I know there are PLENTY more to be added to the list (please do so if you would), but I am sick of it. I am sick of being used and treated like dirt when I've been a loyal paying defending customer for nearly 4 years. I'm sick of the dishonesty, I am sick with the lack of communication, and sick of the cr*p we go through all so you can make a pretty penny.

/sign if you are fed up with Turbine.

[Chellcn]

/shrug

I don't defend anyone. But I admit that I, personally, don't have many issues in/with this game. I don't do PvMP so I don't know what the situation is there. But...I have no lag, have no issues with hitching or stable rides, and think that they communicate with us as best they can/are allowed to.

Bug fixes can be a pain in the butt, especially when it's not happening across the board to everyone. What outsiders can perceive as being an "easy fix" is normally anything but.

I WILL agree with you on one point though: I agree that the cost of the expansion is a little nuts. It's not something I'll be pre-ordering, or even getting for a while. I don't even have RoI yet. I'm not in a rush to see anything so I'll get it when I get it. It should be a bit less though considering what it is.

[enginekid]

TS: i would be right there with you on all four points if i wasn't busy getting prepped for the zombie apocalypse. even the CDC says it's coming

[Zombielord]

Thread closed in 3 ... 2 ... 1

[Aolain]

Keeping a sense of perspective is a good thing..................

[Urzah33]

let me first start off saying I love this game, it's been my favorite video game EVER and I want to continue on playing it

^ ^ This is my point of view.

got rid of all other MMORPG and MMO. There is fails like in every program. But its a nice game I plays for 5 years now and got my son and daughter to play too (with fun indeed) so...

YES, there is glitches

YES, there is bugs

YES there is freaking strange speaking and written strange things (plays on french version with sometimes language mistakes)

BUT its always playable AND enjoyable, so why bother the bugs and other glitches?






Just enjoy your play


This IS the meaning of the game


Enjoying in 3.....2.....1......


EDIT: well just to clarify : I know I "misquote" I just took the part of your topic that was talking to me. I dont blame anybody, nor turbine or the community, neither the OP . I just enjoy the game and wish all players get the fun i have with it...

[Al.]

Short Version:

I'm not a die-hard fan of Turbine but also not a Hater, it goes both ways they say.

I think mostly Turbine does have a great deal of communication with the fan base, sure they have to iron somethings out but usually they are updating the game and continue to improve it (from general perspective of the state of the game)

Prices I think you are right they are kind of expensive, but its a Quality xpac your buying not like those x-pac from WOW for example.

Promises delivered, Im not sure on this one, but seem they do deliver when it comes to actually keep players playing new things.

I'll go back to my bunker and prep for zombie apocalypse :P

[StavroMuellerBeta]

I just want to note here that I am not a defender (check my post history if you don't believe me), so keep that in mind before you lump me into that category.

1)For me, the major issue is not the lack of communication itself, but the accuracy of the communication we do get. I can live with only a few blue-name posts per month, as long as we can take them at face value. The trouble starts when we have to look for hidden wording in the announcements (RoI cluster), when we are told that certain prominent quotes were fabrications by the media source that initially reported it (store armor), or when important purchase information turns out to be an outright mistake (RoR cluster).

2)I'm holding off any cost judgments until they clarify what exactly is and is not included with each option. At the moment, they do not list the mount traits as being available in the store, implying they would be part of the QP. Meanwhile, the FAQ on the RoR purchase page implies that the mount trait lines will be separate store unlocks.

I'm not saying I'm happy with the price, but we're still literally looking at an incomplete product.

3)The new PvMP map announcement goes back to Moria, with additional mentions around Mirkwood and RoI. In this case, I think it's just the PR department being a little too quick to make promises their devs can't keep.

In the most recent Q&A, it is strongly implied that RoR development is still ongoing only 90 days before release (when most software companies would be moving into late-stage beta). With the devs being stretched that thin by TPTB, I can't blame them for not delivering what essentially amounts to little more than a new skin for the same old side-game.

I don't count this as intentional dishonesty per-se, only overzealous managers who don't know when to keep their mouth shut. See also: "Legendary items will grow with you."

4)There have been other bugs that were just as hard to track down. As I've mentioned elsewhere, the Wi-flag in AC (another Turbine game) bordered on mythical status for a long time, and took even longer to nail down and fix. Sometimes, when working with a project of this size, you get things that can't be fixed in one sitting. With the devs being stretched as thin as they are, I'm amazed that they're even working on the issue at all.

With that being said, I do believe that the steps to nail down the problem should have begun sooner. Now they are asking for timestamps and /loc data surrounding the lag, something they should have been gathering on day 1, not month 3. So yes, I do fault them for dragging their feet on the diagnostics, but I'll withhold my judgment on the bug fix itself for the next patch (the current round of data gathering has only been going on for just over a week).

5)No argument here, but that's what happens when managers set a ship date before development is even started, and beta programs only last a few weeks.


With the exception of item 1, the main problem seems to be a lack of resources. The real question is, why are the resources lacking. We had lots of development under the subscription model, and Paiz said that F2P brought triple the revenue that they had before F2P, so where is all that money really going, if not to QA and development?

[Yargesh]

OMG Zombies! Why am I always the last to know!

[Nymphonic]

I have fun every time I log on and it's the only MMO out there that does not bore me to tears. I really don't know any other way to say it.

I honestly don't care about Turbine's business practices. I don't care if they communicate with the player base or not. I will buy the 39.99 expansion because I don't need a 6th inventory bag. It's that plain and simple.

One thing I have noticed is that the haters that love to trash Turbine think that the rest of us are blind to what is going on. We are quite aware of what is going on. We just don't let it bother us and we give Turbine credit for what it does right as well as calling it on what it does wrong.

Don't believe me? Just check my post history.

[djheydt]

Love. Just pure, sweet love. Do I need a better reason?

[Khafar]

I defend Turbine more than most, although I think it's pretty obnoxious to call people who generally like Turbine (and LOTRO) "apologists". Some of the reasons:

• I've had one hell of a lot of fun gaming experiences in Turbine games over the past 13 years, which counts for a lot with me. I tend to defend BioWare on their forums too, for the same reason... I've been playing their games even longer than I have Turbine's.
• Gamers have to include the most whiny, immature, entitled, and rude consumers I've ever encountered, anywhere. It's hard to resist pushing back on that.
• I've been a developer for nearly 30 years now, and tend to self-identify strongest in that role. Not as "customer" or "gamer", but "developer". My experiences give me some insights into how that process works and what challenges it faces that I think most people don't really understand. (Maybe some don't care, either, but others are clearly interested).
• I've participated in many NDA programs going back to 1999 (although I stopped 18 months back), and got to know a few of the Turbine developers pretty well. I've played several MMOs with some of them over the years, and they're good people: fun, smart, hard-working, creative. I've IM'd Turbine developers at 1AM their time before because I saw them online, only to find out they were still in the office trying to get something finished up. Game developers are said to work notoriously long hours, and they're no exception in my experience.

Does that answer the question?

Khafar

[Catisa]

I'm not sick of Turbine, but I am sick of the endless QQ and multi-posting and starting of multiple new threads to whinge, whine and cry about the same ____ things!

Turbine and LoTRO are not perfect, but please show me one game that is or one development company that is? This is none of either, all software, all computers have issues.

I don't go out of my way to defend Turbine, though so will say I do, what I do is point out how ridiculous a lot of the QQ is on the forums these days.

[RKL]

I am amazed at the amount of Turbine apologists there are. This company has continuously screwed over it's player base, and yet people still defend this company to nail and bone, and I am trying to figure out why.

The assumption (and logical fallacy) is; that there is something to apologize for.

Seems to me that people are just responding to attacks that they feel are un-warranted.

[deaddove]

HAHAHAHA...

There was a time when I once had hope.

/signed.

[Cindir]

I just want Turbine to do better - they can if they wanted to. I want Lotro to be a better game - for me it is not that fun - too grindy and lacking in many features I can get in other games (PvP, good AH, Dungeon finder, etc. etc). Main reason I post is to ask them to do better.

...

Turbine and LoTRO are not perfect, but please show me one game that is or one development company that is? This is none of either, all software, all computers have issues.
...

Turbine is worse than many other companies. Communication is worse - dishonesty and marketing tricks are worse. I don't believe for a minute that all games are the same. Compare with Rift and Trion. If it wasn''t LOTR I would not care - but because it is I want them to do a better job - not just make money off the books and deliver a shoddy product.

And ... many things they do right and many parts of the game are great. It could be much better though if they choose to make it so.

[Stanimir]

My friend tried to troll me about LOTRO by insulting Turbine, sadly, his trolling failed.

I dont like them either, but the game they created is good. Its a wierd concept. Every month or so I get PO'd with them but then recover. Certainly they should stop making customers angry, but just the base product they offer is good. They coudl REALLY use some help in the PR department though.

[Laerien]

I am amazed at the amount of Turbine apologists there are. This company has continuously screwed over it's player base, and yet people still defend this company to nail and bone, and I am trying to figure out why.

People tend to complain when their interests are compromised and see everything right when they are not. Others simply don't care for things they don't use.

So at some point you can walk a step back and see: some complain because that instance is bugged, others because they don't have enough money for that thing they want, others because that new thing is breaking the lore, the emotes, pvp, etc.
But many (even complainers) also celebrate, congratulate and defend Turbine against other complainers.

The forum is a part of the comunication system, players must understand that. If someone make a thread showing his disagreements is not because they want to turn the game apart. At the same time if another player congratulates the devs it's not because he is hypnotized by the evil company.

I think to let them know when they are not doing right is legit. More legit when the critic is constructive and it comes from players who support them. At the same time is legit defenders show their opinions respectfully, not with easy and sarcastic answers like "why are you here?, "move on",etc.

I've been in both sides, defending and complaining, sometimes sarcastic, sometimes constructive too.

[Okokdir]

My world just isn't as black and white as the OP. There are things I like and there are things I don't like about how the game is run, but I don't let the things I don't like cloud my vision about the whole picture.

On top of that... Nothing I have seen from Turbine comes even close to the terrible I saw from another company that shall remain nameless that destroyed a certain game that took place in a galaxy far, far away. When you log in after a patch here at least you have the character and items you did the previous patch.

[Neumi]

So someone who doesn't share your opinion is an apologist and defends everything?

What kind of rant troll are you?

"Either you share my opinion or you're an idiot. because I know the only truth"
That kind of troll?

Or this kind of troll?
5 minutes after the plane crash "Of course it was a human mistake. saying anything else would be pure speculation"

[Stigger32]

My friend tried to troll me about LOTRO by insulting Turbine, sadly, his trolling failed.

I dont like them either, but the game they created is good. Its a wierd concept. Every month or so I get PO'd with them but then recover. Certainly they should stop making customers angry, but just the base product they offer is good. They coudl REALLY use some help in the PR department though.

I wasn't planning on replying to this thread. Mainly because it's like beating my head against a brick wall. Then I saw this post.
It's EXACTLY what I think.

There's an expression I seem to hear more and more in-game as time goes on.

"Love The Game. Hate The Company"

[The_Legacy]

I am amazed at the amount of Turbine apologists there are. This company has continuously screwed over it's player base, and yet people still defend this company to nail and bone, and I am trying to figure out why.

Before my rant continues, let me first start off saying I love this game, it's been my favorite video game EVER and I want to continue on playing it, but I am 100% dissatisfied with Turbine as a whole.

1)There general lack of communication with the player base is astounding. I can't imagine being on the PR side of Turbine/WB, I imagine it's a living hell. I feel like the pre-orders for Rohan came out WAY to early considering the amount of information we have received about it. Then when we (the players) request more information about things we don't hear about it at all.

2)The cost for this EXPANSION (not game, hence the emphasis on expansion) is so ridiculously high I nearly deleted my account when I saw it. 70 dollars for the top package, that's more than the cost of a new game on any console out there. And come September, there won't be any instances with it for probably another 1-2 months after release. We were told a 6th inventory bag would be coming with the pre-order, little did we know we would be having to pay for the most expensive one out there. Even still 40 dollars is too much, that's nearly as much as I paid for the top pre-order for Isengard. Not pre-ordering until the price drops.

3)Turbine not only doesn't deliver what's they have promised to us, but they are dishonest. Ever since Mirkwood there has been talk about a new PvMP map, and PvMP overhaul, and there has been no such thing. The commendation system they implemented is a huge fail in and of itself, and the moors is as unbalanced as ever.

4) It's been MONTHS since the lag came with update 6, and where are we at in fixing it? Nowhere near it, we don't even know what the problem is STILL! First they said it had nothing to do with their servers because everything was fine on their end (lol). We're still experiencing the lag and stable mount hitching Turbine!

Edit: Adding a 5th
5)Releasing buggy content. Dragon has been out for a long time now and that raid is still buggy. Anyone remember the pits of isengard (not the instance, the area in the cave in dunland) area? Remember how you couldn't navigate through there without falling through the dang floor? Ridiculous.

These are fice of the most important issues I've come across with Turbine. Trust me, I know there are PLENTY more to be added to the list (please do so if you would), but I am sick of it. I am sick of being used and treated like dirt when I've been a loyal paying defending customer for nearly 4 years. I'm sick of the dishonesty, I am sick with the lack of communication, and sick of the cr*p we go through all so you can make a pretty penny.

/sign if you are fed up with Turbine.

One of the best I don't like Turbine posts I have seen rep for you but /not signed.

This is why I defend Turbine.

Most of these posts about how Turbine is evil and they aren't thinking about costumers and they are not answering and so on, in my opinion these are just assumptions and does not varify anything.
I have seen Devs explaining why it happens and what they do to fix problems, but some players just don't seem to understand what they are doing.
1. I think their communications is good enough for me, I get the answers I need.
4. The lag and the stuttering, you saying they are not doing anything? Why did they have a some kind of special unit trying to solve the problem one day? Yet we have to see if they could figure out something about this. As some thinks they don't do anything I beleave they are doing whatever possible for them to find this problem.
While there are some things that happens in this game that I don't like i.e: EM changes and stuttering and lag I still beleave that Turbine is doing what they can to fix this, I do complain I file /bug and I participates in discussions about stuff and tell them what I think is wrong.

I have never thought about the price like it's more expensive that RoI or so, what I know is the bigger bundle is not cheap but if I would wan't the small one it's much less than a new pre-order game wich is about 70$ to 80$ here in Sweden.
2. Maby Turbine is more greedy that Blizzard or Area Net, but they still are a company and they are doing what they can to get profit, but I don't feel like I am being cheated in anyway.

I have been enyojing this game for 5 years and never had a break, it wasn't until now that I have taken a Semi-break since EM is boring and I have done everything I think is "fun" in this game.

3. Maby the reason why Devs won't tell us anything is because they said 'We are working on a new EM-map and it will be released at that date' and later they say 'We got complications, with it so we can't continue doing it' Then people seem to say they lie... So I guess some are better of not knowing what they are planning and just tell us what will come when the official Release notes are here.
Since some say they lack communication, I wouldn't blame them. Seems some have missed what they have said about that Commendation system is not finnished and in EM they are taking one step at the time to get a better view. Maby we should see it like we are beta testers. But I am happy that I can try it now so I don't mind, but as I have said I am not happy about EM right now but I am curious about what to come.

For me Instances is not the only thing that is fun with this game so I won't go complaining about not getting the instances with RoR, they seem to be expecting alot for the new repeatable quests and I guess the storyline will continue and also much other new stuff wich we don't know anything about yet.
5. accidents happens, they fixed the cave and they have had many attempts and fixed Draigoch alot.

I will not accuse Turbine until I have facts. My reasons may not be accepted for some of you, but theese are my reasons.

[silverblade5445]

The thing why I would say I defend Turbine, or Lotro, to be more precise, is because in my personal experience, despite all their flaws, theyre the best I've encountered.....

There were times in the last year (especially before they released the instance cluster of RoI) that I felt a lull in the gameplay and decided to try out other games.....

Now I wont take names here because all that would be defended and challenged by the respective fans of those games.......but in the other few games I played, the communities, forums, forum moderators, devs, gameplay, sheer number of in-game bugs, the insane preference given to paying customers over free2play ones (pay2win in short) was exceptionally bad.....In those games, I've seen communities which do not speak a word to each other while playing group content just use the instance finder, I've seen threads locked and even deleted without reason for the sheer reason of disagreeing with the forum mods, I've seen bugs so bad that there are hotfixes every alternate day so much so that I spend more time patching the game than actually playing it, I seen blunt statements like "Those customers are paying for the game to continue, they deserve the best, free2play players should not even think of being on par with them", I've seen communities where not even ONE question was answered and all that one gets for asking a question is rude replies from self-proclaimed elitists.....

It was such that when I returned back to lotro, it was like returning to the Shire after a journey to Mordor

So in-short, I always knew that Lotro was indeed one of the best MMOs out there, with the best community.....but after being out there I realized Turbine, despite all its shortcomings, gives a VERY good deal to everyone and tries their best to satisfy as many customers as they can....And that is what I respect.....And most of the posts in which I have defended Turbine, its not as much about their defending their actions but clarifying doubts and wrong complaints and giving in my opinion about what I think are the intentions

I'll just put in, even though most of the time I do "defend" Turbine, I have put in my objection to certain actions I've felt were wrong (for example the whole lowbie statted gear in the store thing)....

[Arannir]

I do see some of the issues... but there are various reasons for why I am still excited for this expansion which does not necessarily has something to do with defending anybody... sometimes I also get annoyed how easily you can be called a fanboy here just because of seeing things from a different perspective.

1) May playstyle leads to the fact that I am always a little bit behind the masses... so I never hit ANY content which was buggy enough to take the fun out of it... I actually seldomly played a game in which I had so few problems. Maybe it is because of my preferred content or because I am always a little late and slow.

2) I play basically for Tolkien/Middle-Earth reasons... since it seems we are going fast into Two Towers content and work on both Rohan and first concepts of Gondor are in progress, I simply get very happy about those new areas and the Tolkien-movies we can be witness and experience there... something the game has always handled well imo. The best way into ME via a game so far. Looking how badly a lot of others have failed trying, not the smallest accomplishment.

3) I put those things in perspective, really. If I get annyoed I may stop playing for a view weeks or something... but I do not waste rage time for a game. I can either let my wallet speak or not. I am hard to get extremely excited about something but I also stay away from all the "lying Turbine" rage and stuff like that... a lt of times facts are twisted there on both sides, I just cannot be bothered to deal with either one of them and try to have either fun in-game or do something else. I do think the expansion is too expensive... but since the stuff you get with the legendary pack is really not p2w although people like to see it that way, I simply go for the cheapest choice.

4) I only get angry when people call me fanboy, too easy to please, ideal customor, lemming or whatever for that. There is a different perspective, playstyle, whatev that leads to that opinion. I can only hope for some respect. Which, of course, means that I have respect for those using the forums for constructive criticism. My definition of constructive may, however, vary from what some people here consider it to be.

[daadkey]

Well, I sorta defend them because for every 5 mistakes they make - such as the 5 you listed - they do 95 things right. And it's the 95 right things that keep me subscribing and playing the game. IOW: my LOTRO glass is 95% full. So, for every five things I may complain about, I hope I can give them 95 "attaboys" for what they do good.