What if we decided not to be "victims" anymore?

[morrowbreeze]

OP deleted.

[Krindus]

I don't think this is a good idea. There's already 4+ threads about this individual and his actions across these forums and, as evident by his tirade in glff last night, all it is doing is giving this person exactly the kind of attention that he desires.

[Emere]

I disagree. Attention is exactly what he needs and deserves. The GM's need to know how upset we all are, so if tickets are being closed, and no action taken against said griefers, then we need to stand and voice together how we feel so Turbine knows that one person (or small group of people) is chasing off a large group of paying customers. Here is another thread about the griefing.
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-takes-a-stand

[Sapience]

Hammers are legal. Beating your neighbor with one is not. I would strongly discourage the 'eye for an eye' approach.

If you feel you are being griefed or targeted, report the issue and move on. I would also discourage a 'everyone report them' mentality as abuse of reporting tools may run you afoul of a GM or Moderator.

[morrowbreeze]

Response deleted. No more to say on this.

[XionRider]

I don't think these people are given the option of moving on. I've had several people tell me that they are followed where ever they go, by the same person, doing the exact same thing over and over. I'm assuming it's okay for them to break the CoC but not okay for them to be reported over and over by witnesses?

[Llindorie]

Hammers are legal. Beating your neighbor with one is not. I would strongly discourage the 'eye for an eye' approach.

If you feel you are being griefed or targeted, report the issue and move on. I would also discourage a 'everyone report them' mentality as abuse of reporting tools may run you afoul of a GM or Moderator.

Wow...this is the reply we get? We are just trying to stop the griefers!!!! So now we are going to get in trouble for reporting something that is destroying the musical community on Landroval, when nothing is happening to them? Unbelievable.

[Sapience]

I'm assuming it's okay for them to break the CoC but not okay for them to be reported over and over by witnesses?

Obviously this is a silly statement as it is not 'ok' to violate the CoC. But it is also not 'ok' to violate it by other means (as are being suggested in this thread).

Put very simply, two wrongs do not make a right. Or as my coach use to tell me when I was little, 'The referee won't see him hit you, but he'll sure as heck see you hit him back. So don't.'

[Llindorie]

Obviously this is a silly statement as it is not 'ok' to violate the CoC. But it is also not 'ok' to violate it by other means (as are being suggested in this thread).

Put very simply, two wrongs do not make a right. Or as my coach use to tell me when I was little, 'The referee won't see him hit you, but he'll sure as heck see you hit him back. So don't.'

But here's the difference...you do see him hitting us. Over and over.

[Fionnuala]

Wow...this is the reply we get? We are just trying to stop the griefers!!!! So now we are going to get in trouble for reporting something that is destroying the musical community on Landroval, when nothing is happening to them? Unbelievable.

No, you are being reminded that the ends DO NOT justify the means.

Tinki, with all due respect, this is the worst way to respond to this issue. Are you seriously suggesting that the community engage in the exact same behavior that you want so called griefers to be banned for? So it's harrassment and griefing when someone does it to you and your friends, but not when you and your friends do it to them? In my opinion, if you are griefed by someone and then you turn around and return the favor, you are worse than the griefer, because you know better.

This is a terrible idea.

[Crell_1]

In my opinion, if you are griefed by someone and then you turn around and return the favor, you are worse than the griefer, because you know better.

This is a terrible idea.

Agreed. ; I would like to know what Turbine has to say to the remark made above that 'use of a forced emote/skill' seems to automatically overcome any 'suspicion of griefing.'

[Deto]

Hammers are legal. Beating your neighbor with one is not. I would strongly discourage the 'eye for an eye' approach.

If you feel you are being griefed or targeted, report the issue and move on. I would also discourage a 'everyone report them' mentality as abuse of reporting tools may run you afoul of a GM or Moderator.

THIS IS COMPLETLY INEFFECTIVE, and HAS BEEN SINCE FREE TO PLAY. Griefers continue to play, and the rest of us get to tolerate it. Deal with the problem, please. Not the reaction to said problem. As far as 'Moving on".. Where?! Some of these people FOLLOW you.

And since all we see is... "Greetings, I am a Game Master for Online Support. I will investigate this incident and take appropriate action. I am unable to discuss any actions or details related to this incident with other players, but I appreciate your Harassment Report. Thank you for helping us maintain a great community." the ticket get's closed and I/We continue to get harassed, in some cases MORE after than before as they are allowed to retaliate againnst those that reported them. The person is still online and STILL breaking the CoC. Yet we're abusing the 'Report" function?! *eyeroll* HOW is this acceptable to you?

I'm getting ready to "move-on", to another game. I don't pay you to allow people to harass me. It's NOT entertaining to me.


~Beno

[Beschutzer]

Tinki is a sweetheart.

Something must be really rotten in the Shire if people like Tinki are grabbing the pitchforks.

I do hope Turbine,Sapience, and whoever has the power will physically attend some of these rp events where said griefers are griefing.

The Referee will not see them hit you,yes,...but if the referee is actively monitoring it. I am sure the truth of the matter shall be lit.

[XionRider]

No, you are being reminded that the ends DO NOT justify the means.

Tinki, with all due respect, this is the worst way to respond to this issue. Are you seriously suggesting that the community engage in the exact same behavior that you want so called griefers to be banned for? So it's harrassment and griefing when someone does it to you and your friends, but not when you and your friends do it to them? In my opinion, if you are griefed by someone and then you turn around and return the favor, you are worse than the griefer, because you know better.

This is a terrible idea.

What is your suggestion then? To keep reporting them so that nothing will be done? They've already been reported, the people that can actually do something about it already know what's going on. It is harassment and griefing when a group or individual is being hounded by another person with the intent of disrupting someone else's gaming experience. It's fighting back when you turn the tables on the other person because they brought it on themselves.

[Crell_1]

In some cases MORE after than before as they are allowed to retaliate againnst those that reported them. The person is still online and STILL breaking the CoC. Yet we're abusing the 'Report" function?! *eyeroll* HOW is this acceptable to you?

If Turbine is doing their job they have no way of knowing you reported them. Nor should you make them aware of the fact that you did so.

[morrowbreeze]

My apologies to all. I now see it bends the rules in an unwholesome way. Feeling powerless right now. I am done with this whole subject and am wanting to move on. I am deleting the text of the OP.

[Krindus]

It seems that this line of reasoning is what keeps us in the victim mode. This person has been doing it while we were quiet about it. So that didnt deter him. Let him get caught in a tirade that might be used against him for account banishment. I dont care if theres 75 threads about the subject. The game players are speaking up about something and ideas are coming from it.

I understand you feel helpless in the situation, and certainly the response from Turbine has been less than we have hoped. Believe me, I empathize with you. While a few forced emotes don't bother me, I take the harassment of any group of people in game very seriously, be they RPers or otherwise. I have seen this person and people like him target and harass people first hand, and have always encouraged the filing of reports against hist actions. I 100% agree that he and his friends should get whacked by the ban hammer, not just for their harassment of RPers, but for the exploitation of other in-game bugs as well.

However, I do not believe trolling the troll is the best course of action. No good will ever come from stooping to another person's low sense of morals and behavior. I have seen people like this man come and go throughout the years. At one point, it was an entire kinship of end-game raiders, which to this day still have a notable, albeit controversial, reputation. Contrary to what the fellow after my original post said, giving the griefers the attention they desire is not the way to combat their actions. Ignore them, report them, and let them fade. Turbine's support staff is capable of pulling word-for-word logs off the server from many days prior. I promise they are not blind to this man's actions.

[Fionnuala]

What is your suggestion then?

Honestly? Act like adults and get over it.

The ONLY effective method of dealing with trolls and griefers is to ignore them. All of this... these threads and complaining and resolutions to quit the game is exactly what certain types of griefers aim for. You're giving them victory, people! You're feeding them a rich banquet. None of this is going to work or make anything better.

But if you don't play the game with them, if you don't give in to their harrassment they WILL get bored eventually and they will go away. It's the only thing that works.

[Deto]

Messed up the Quote, But : "If Turbine is doing their job they have no way of knowing you reported them. Nor should you make them aware of the fact that you did so."


I have, IN-Fact, been told BY players that I was a "Explitive" for reporting them. The ONLY way they would have known WHO did this in this situation I speak of, is if the GM had told them. So... yeah, again.. Turbine is FAILING to do their job. Sorry.

Unacceptable, in my opinion.

Also, I don't condone this. I won't stoop to their level of play. I'll simply go elsewhere. Thanks Sapience for making it clear WHERE you/Turbine stand.

[elf-friend46]

I have to agree with the posters here that we need something to save us from griefers. If they don't like RP why don't they go to a server that doesn't have RP? Landy is an RP encouraged server. Secondly, it should include some protections for people who are RPing to good effect. If they like using forced emotes so much, why is it a problem for us to use them back? They can dish it out, but they can't take it? Something's gotta give here. I'm with Beno on that. Give us some decent reporting tools or allow us to use the emotes too.

Gaiagil

[Harperelle]

Let me weigh in on this, since I originally had the thought of a "community watch". I do believe in the community sticking together, watching out for one another, and providing support when these sort of trolls show up. I've also mentioned ways that a large group can keep a single player occupied such as massive trade window requests and /tell storms. Truth be told, we've never had to resort to those tactics at any public event.

The idea of a community watch is to find out what is happening where, get the names of griefers out there, and make sure that Turbine knows what is going on. Think back to the RL analog of a Neighborhood Watch. Here's the Wikipedia definition:

A neighborhood watch or neighbourhood watch (see spelling differences), also called a crime watch or neighborhood crime watch, is an organized group of citizens devoted to crime and vandalism prevention within a neighborhood. In the United States it builds on the concept of a town watch from Colonial America.
A neighborhood watch may be organized as its own group or may simply be a function of a neighborhood association or other community association.
Neighborhood watches are not vigilante organizations. When suspecting criminal activities, members are encouraged to contact authorities and not to intervene.

A neighborhood watch should not encourage their members to all call 911 when a break-in is witnessed. They shouldn't catch up with the perpetrator in a dark alley for some payback justice. What a watch does is watch--and report. Report in an effective way. Learn to spot what violates the CoC. Learn to document that violation. Learn to communicate this to Turbine GMs. Learn to spread the word on who the stalkers are and what their MO is.

Now this is a fine line with vigilantism. We saw this line crossed most recently with the tragic incident in Florida. I know that when I think of these cyber-bullies and griefers, I get angry and just want to do something back. But that just brings us down to their level.

If Turbine doesn't appear to be listening, speak louder, speak clearer, speak together.

--Harper

[XionRider]

This is akin to being bullied at school. What you're telling them to do is run and tell a teacher. It just doesn't work because they aren't afraid of the people in charge. They don't understand words and warnings, it takes actions. Yes, the people in charge could ban their accounts but they have several of those. Besides; from what I understand bannings aren't even being handed out.

[Sapience]

Messed up the Quote, But : "If Turbine is doing their job they have no way of knowing you reported them. Nor should you make them aware of the fact that you did so."


I have, IN-Fact, been told BY players that I was a "Explitive" for reporting them. The ONLY way they would have known WHO did this in this situation I speak of, is if the GM had told them. So... yeah, again.. Turbine is FAILING to do their job. Sorry.

Unacceptable, in my opinion.

Also, I don't condone this. I won't stoop to their level of play. I'll simply go elsewhere. Thanks Sapience for making it clear WHERE you/Turbine stand.

We do not discuss who or what was reported or when. So the fact in the matter here is, someone took a guess in a further effort to provoke/troll/grief you. So while they did not know for a fact, they took a guess, and my guess would be you confirmed it with your response or reaction.

[Deto]

We do not discuss who or what was reported or when. So the fact in the matter here is, someone took a guess in a further effort to provoke/troll/grief you. So while they did not know for a fact, they took a guess, and my guess would be you confirmed it with your response or reaction.

Regadless, when reported AFTER the tell, they still continued to abuse, grief and until I logged onto another character, harass me, even after several reports, they were allowed to continue. This is acceptable to you? And no, I never responded to them at all, except to mount my horse and sit there, HOPING the GM would do something.


But yeah, I guess you're right, this is my fault. I logged in, after all.

[Llindorie]

If Turbine is unable to stop griefers, then we should at least be able to opt out of having to submit to their forced emotes. Everything else can be put on /ignore. I don't care if they stand on me. Just don't make me fall over in the middle of my carefully synchronized dancing with my fellow players.