Where has my favorite mmorpg gone...

[denpl5]

You all probably know of the once great and glorious days of lotro, so i wont type it. But..it has been in the back of my head for a while now...turbine, WB...please, stop investing money into IC...you will lose thee most dedicated community in mmorpg history. This is a plea. Please dont put lotro second to IC. I have been with you since the beginning and i know what youre capable of. Dedication.

[denpl5]

As you can see im not the best typer so please cut me some slack on that. Im sure most or at least some of you feel the same way.

[Schmidster]

No worries about your typing, hardly a crime around game forums lol!

I almost feel this discussion should carry on in another area, like Off-Topic or other? While it certainly relates to the game we are playing here, it is like another topic entirely because it pertains to another game. Right?

The companies will do what they do, we will get what we get, everybody knows there is a long agreement that we sign onto every time we log in. Let's hope for a surprise gift of information at some point down the road, but maybe we don't need to "doom and gloom" more - especially in an area of business we are entirely not privy to, not in any way.

I for one wish to be happy (yes other issues aside) with what our game provides, not curse another game before it is even released. What happened in DDO when they learned that LOTRO was being developed? Did they curse us?

...plink plink

[Jarryd]

You all probably know of the once great and glorious days of lotro, so i wont type it. But..it has been in the back of my head for a while now...turbine, WB...please, stop investing money into IC...you will lose thee most dedicated community in mmorpg history. This is a plea. Please dont put lotro second to IC. I have been with you since the beginning and i know what youre capable of. Dedication.

You plea lands far to late I am afraid. The money has been spent, agreements signed, the commitment ship has sailed.

At the very near, right round the corner E 3 starting on June 11. Infinite Crisis is going to get the Star Marketing treatment.

The New Partnership of Major League Gaming & Warner/Turbine will kick off showcasing Infinite Crisis in a Tournament with Complexity Gaming Vs. Curse Academy

Expect Lotro's presence to be even smaller than last year, quite possibly non existent.

Right now:
- we'll soon be getting a forum site downgrade... the current one is too much effort (money) to maintain and keep upgraded to function status... soon to be replaced with a cheaper offering.
- in game support for some time now has no longer been functioning 24/7... just try getting a GM to answer a ticket on the weekend or after hours during the week... just doesn't happen.
- the list of issues with the game itself is simply too long to bother with a list that would be exhaustive to type.

& come sometime (likely very late) this Fall, we'll be given an Xpak (Helms Deep) and with sales via pre-orders, etc. folk will get the opportunity to spend and say this is all perfectly ok.

Anyway, take this to heart, (though you should very likely worry instead)...

The HYPE factor for Infinite Crisis just isn't there. It is more of a HUH? factor at the moment. Warner/Turbine have decided to take a beta client and showcase it in a MLG competition... at E3 no less. It boggles my mind frankly.

It isn't hard to understand why Warner wants a piece of that MOBA pie, (with League of Legends making such a massive impact) but buying a slice of the competitive gaming market scene (with a beta client, yeah, not even a public game yet) seems utterly shortsighted.

LoL did not get to the place it is today, via a short road. They worked to get to that spot and build up a game that now has over 30 million users per month.

Dota even has been on the scene for sometime & would likely be the next logical candidate, but Dota doesn't have the pockets of Warner.

If I could somehow magic an additional 6-8 hours on top of the current day cycle of 24... I wouldn't touch LoL or Dota, but SMITE might be something I'd play, because even though it is still in beta (I beleive) they have made lots of improvements and it looks like (& the buzz around it is) a very fun game to play.

Anyway.

I hope turbine manages to pull the rabbit out of that Hat at E3, because if it turns out to be an embarrassment... no amount of superhero-cool factor will save face. & Warner has spent big time on marketing this puppy & I wouldn't want to be around the Turbine offices post E3, should it hit the fan.

...

Plea's are such a novelty. Your money is what does the talking. Not a fuzzy warm, but more of a cold harsh reality.

[Edrogar]

OK, here we go again.

Stopping development of other games will have NO, ZERO, NADA and ZILCH effect on this game whatsoever. Once a game is running they don't pile more money into it, they use the money that it earns.

To think that stopping development of other games will effect this game at all is at best extreme naivety.

The only way this game could get more funding is if it was earning more money.

[Nymphonic]

I'm sorry but I still have fun playing. I'm not happy with Turbine as a company and don't plan on doing business with them in the future, but it spite of it's warts, I freakin' love this game. In fact, I like it better than before. My hat is off to the devs that keep it running and updating as well as it is without the support I think they should get.

[Stephen1981]

OK, here we go again.

Stopping development of other games will have NO, ZERO, NADA and ZILCH effect on this game whatsoever. Once a game is running they don't pile more money into it, they use the money that it earns.

To think that stopping development of other games will effect this game at all is at best extreme naivety.

The only way this game could get more funding is if it was earning more money.

not like a company will ever admit if its going south they will only admit when sells are up like rise of isengard expansion but we never heard that about riders of rohan did which makes me think sales were down for ROR it don't really matter i have not paid for a expansion since mrikwood since i just stockpile my TP and buy it that way i get for my lifetime VIP not to mention when i do log in its nothing but a char room i play other games for mmorpg now

[Jarryd]

...The only way this game could get more funding is if it was earning more money.

You clearly don't understand the complexity of the issue.

I can point out a very current example in the industry, were diminishing sales caused the Parent (Publishing) Company to release funds for more product development in the form of an expansion. Hint: NCsoft earnings call from the past fiscal quarter...

If there is perceived value in spending on a product, a company will do it.

If the perception is that spending won't increase value, they won't spend.

The problem for me is these parent (publishers) companies tend to act like absentee parents, rather than someone who has present awareness.

The fact we are getting more Asian themed FTP marketing elements for a predominantly western based MMO shows someone doesn't quite have all the lights turned on in the decision making department.

Contrastingly, do you honestly think the Asian market will embrace a franchise that has the heroes predominantly modeled after white people, with the forces of evil coming from other ethnicity (Harad, Khand, etc?)

There is so much to consider & your distillation of "The only way this game could get more funding is if it was earning more money.

...is rather flat.

[Edrogar]

There is so much to consider & your distillation of "The only way this game could get more funding is if it was earning more money.

...is rather flat.

And entirely accurate. The only reason any of those games you talk about had extra money thrown at them was because there was potential for more profit in a short period of time, if they could not have guaranteed more money returned in a short time they wouldn't have thrown money at them. although LOTRO does have potential to increase its player base and make more money it would take too long to return on an investment so it's not worth the risk for them to throw money into it.

It all comes down to how much the game earns or how much they could earn quickly. In LOTRO's case the only way it will get more money is by earning more money because WB won't give us more money unless we prove we can make more money, LOTRO has to do that using the earnings it is currently producing, it's a never ending circle.

[Jarryd]

And entirely accurate. The only reason any of those games you talk about had extra money thrown at them was because there was potential for more profit in a short period of time, if they could not have guaranteed more money returned in a short time they wouldn't have thrown money at them. although LOTRO does have potential to increase its player base and make more money it would take too long to return on an investment so it's not worth the risk for them to throw money into it.

It all comes down to how much the game earns or how much they could earn quickly. In LOTRO's case the only way it will get more money is by earning more money because WB won't give us more money unless we prove we can make more money, LOTRO has to do that using the earnings it is currently producing, it's a never ending circle.

Actually it was only one game, but here is another...

World of Warcraft. & Yes, back to that Hobbit pre-show commercial sore spot...

WoW has continued to bleed subscribers, & they accept that will continue to happen. Even though it looks like they intend to release more expansions to the franchaise (9 more in fact) Only WoW could lose 1.5 million subs and still be the leader in the MMO market.

That commercial placement wasn't about marketing for more subs as it was about perception & industry one-up-man-ship, they have been notorious for.

They also pushed the Titan team back to redevelop a new engine and only maintained a core of that team, whilst shuffling the excess off to other existing projects.

Blizzard will have a new MMO ready for when WOW does bleed subs to the point of losing that top dog spot.

There is also a reason why they aren't aggressively inserting Dota on MLG. They will earn, that place, over time.

And then Warner will once again be trying to get a piece of the pie, some other company worked for.

I do concede your point about Warner and the short term gain. That is the perception I have of the choices they've made.

The entire gaming industry is hemorrhaging due to this fiscal quarter earnings dictating the moves.

It is just sad that is happening to a legacy, penned by Tolkien, that in many ways is the footprint many of these style games are following.

...end of day, I cannot advocate spending money on substandard product as a way to improve things, because that just won't happen.

EVER.

[Orivien]

come on guys, stop this already

[Palanthas]

As a business owner myself, I'm always incredulous at these kinds of posts.

Turbine is a BUSINESS. They build products and sell them. They are not a charity catering for Tolkien lovers.

LOTRO is "fit for purpose", as it stands. Whether they're putting enough effort in to justify your dollars is for you to decide, and then vote with your feet.

To think that they're going to ignore all other sales avenues and focus on one product is beyond naive.

[podgie_bear]

As a business owner myself, I'm always incredulous at these kinds of posts.

Turbine is a BUSINESS. They build products and sell them. They are not a charity catering for Tolkien lovers.

LOTRO is "fit for purpose", as it stands. Whether they're putting enough effort in to justify your dollars is for you to decide, and then vote with your feet.

To think that they're going to ignore all other sales avenues and focus on one product is beyond naive.

As customers, it is down to us to let Turbine know that we are not happy with the way things are going and to warn them that we may vote with our feet, so theese type of posts are actually doing them a favour. Also as far as IC is concerned, although I hope it doesn't bomb for them, but it is just another in a line of game clones hoping to grab a small part of a fad market. Whereas LotRO is a distinct game that very few others could have competed with, before they started to homogenise it to try and attract new players from existing games. They have been alienating a dedicated customer base in the hopes of attracting a wider customer base. I don't think they have actually increased the customer base at all as it looks like they are losing dedicated players faster than they are gaining new and possibly temporary players.

[Cambruin]

Last post about IC got removed, so don't plan on spending too much typing typing replies to this one for it'll be a waste

[oldschool_gamer]

There is a huge difference between operational and capital costs. LOTRO is on a Opex budget with the exception of the expansions which likely have their own capex budgets. A new game like IC probably has a 100% capex budget. Its accounting 101 for any business in America. If you want LOTRO to generate more revenue then spend more money in game. That is the only way for the decision makers to see that it's worth investing more than "lights on" money into. Gaming is big business now folks.

[manstan]

Some of the logic people use is simply amazing. The tire is flat on my car because the oil is low.

[Jarryd]

There is a huge difference between operational and capital costs. LOTRO is on a Opex budget with the exception of the expansions which likely have their own capex budgets. A new game like IC probably has a 100% capex budget. Its accounting 101 for any business in America. If you want LOTRO to generate more revenue then spend more money in game. That is the only way for the decision makers to see that it's worth investing more than "lights on" money into. Gaming is big business now folks.

Whilst dwelling on the obvious, you still seem to entirely miss the point.

Of course Turbine are focused on Infinite Crisis. They have to be.

Though even focused, I suspect it will flop. & big business will continue to lose as it develops games for investment cycles, rather than players.

You do realize Warner is trying to grab a slice of something Riot games has spent the last 4 (not including the time it was in development) years building?

You do realize more developers are opting for crowd funding concepts like Kick-starter to avoid getting shoehorned into the corporate BB for profit development according to quarterly fiscal cycles?

You don't do that if you want actual players to embrace your game. The minute you drop to operational status, you have conceded your game is not worth it. You HAVE to stay hungry.

Or else someone else who actually hungers for it, will take your place... and then Warner will be looking to buy another slice of pie... and no doubt showing more overall loses with each quarter (at least in the gaming sphere.)

I certainly am not arguing that business as usual isn't a factor. GAWD knows there are a metric (you know what) ton of underwhelming, under performing businesses out there.

You seem stuck on pointing out the glaringly plain whilst simultaneously being unaware that what you are saying sounds alot like, "Welcome to mediocrity & have a nice day."

Yes turbine does need to focus on Infinite Crisis, though I think they are going about it the entirely wrong way.

As for Lotro being in operational status, we do seem to be currently shifting more into that state every day.

... I suppose we'll just have to wait until Blizzard finally releases Titan, before Warner gets hungry again for some MMO pie. Because from were I sit, it seems they don't have any vision of their own when it comes to the games market, or gamers and are flailing in the dark.

If the rumors of a Warner flirting with a Korean developer have any substance, lets hope they have a little foresight to know the intricacies of the Asian market... and why a game like Lord of the Rings won't fly in that sphere. Or at least why it won't resemble anything remotely like what we would identify as a work penned by Tolkien.

& if you think I am just referring to anime flavored visuals, you haven't even scratched the surface.

Making games for gamers sound pretty on the lips, but if it just lip service. Only the naive are fooled by some buzz words, or other utterances that lack the substance. However if the substance is there, well going deeper is worth it, as is opening my wallet.

As it stands, the only thing I am left feeling is reluctance. I am not one bit encouraged by the Asian market FTP pachinko elements either.

If I want to share a gaming experience with my Asian friends, I'll pick Starcraft... respectfully, your MMO's suck, (though I am sure they'd disagree.)

...

I also wonder if The Hobbit Movie not getting the same critical reception as the Lord of the Rings Movies has some suit at Warner wondering, "Hmmm, seems Lord of the Rings might be slipping from popularity... I wonder if Jackson would be open to collaborating with Bay... we really need to tune the pyrotechnics of Smaug WAAAAAY up, maybe we should even bump that dragon up to episode 2... hmmmm?"

...

well that post was kinda all over the place...

& finally:

come on guys, stop this already

see what happens when you bump a post about to fall off the first page?

Pro tip: not replying to a post means you don't want to talk about it. replying has the opposite effect. this post has traction as long as folk want to discuss a point.

I've gotten to the point of iteration with mine & am quite content to see this fall off the page. >.<

[Sapience]

I've gotten to the point of iteration with mine & am quite content to see this fall off the page. >.<

I can assist with that.