When to expect Update 12.1?

[Armdyl]

im assuming we wont get update 12.1 meaning a few much needed moors bug fixes and audacity gear until around the 20th of this month since update 12 was around the 20th last month. or am I wrong and will it be in about a week or two? does anybody know?

[KrauserJoestar]

I would like to think it's coming in one week. People are getting really impatient, both creeps and freeps. Once in a while some freeps come out, group up and we still have decent action for 30m or so till they get overpowered and quit/rage log.


Some official word would be nice.

[Yula_the_Mighty]

It will be announced shortly before deployment because it is a hot fix. My guess is that it will be the 16 or 17. It is not done by the 19th it will be next year.

[stoney530]

The same thing we get with every update:

- Broken PvP
- Flavor of the Month classes
- General PvP imbalance
- Devs that could care less

[Sapience]

It will be announced shortly before deployment because it is a hot fix. My guess is that it will be the 16 or 17. It is not done by the 19th it will be next year.

12.1 is not a hotfix. It's a patch (and a good sized one at that). We had a hotfix previously in 12.0.1.

Currently the plan is shortly before the Yule Festival which is currently slated to start on the 18th.

[haroldhnicholos]

12.1 is not a hotfix. It's a patch (and a good sized one at that). We had a hotfix previously in 12.0.1.

Currently the plan is shortly before the Yule Festival which is currently slated to start on the 18th.

tell the guard dev ty for the awesomeness that is the new guard ps stay back with the nerfs tell we get new content and pvp stuff to fully test it right, ty

[Wilfrum]

12.1 is not a hotfix. It's a patch (and a good sized one at that). We had a hotfix previously in 12.0.1.

Currently the plan is shortly before the Yule Festival which is currently slated to start on the 18th.

Thank You ! Rick Heaton

[WarChanting]

12.1 is not a hotfix. It's a patch (and a good sized one at that). We had a hotfix previously in 12.0.1.

Currently the plan is shortly before the Yule Festival which is currently slated to start on the 18th.

Thank you for the update....Much awaited by the PVP community

[Yelloweyedemon]

The right question is: "WHAT to expect from 12.1"

A simple updated audacity armour is not gonna save the day this time...

[poxnoxious]

Lets toss some doom and gloom on this campfire before the boyscouts starts singing their praises and turn their glassy blue eyed gazes to the evening stars.

To keep everything in order; 1 of 2 things will happen in regards to the date of launch of 12.1 .

1.) They will force 12.1 out before Christmas (read the 18th.) resulting in another half finished cluster f... to fix yet another cluster f... which initially was made to cover up the cluster f... we all know as LotrO.

Or 2.) They will take their time and try and do things right the first time around. (haha, yea, I know...) Which would mean a week and then some in to the new year.

In either case, result will be the same, eventually being a freep will be boiled down to a level of easymode where they all will start nodding approvingly at themselves yet again. Flashing at first those insecure smiles while wipeing the sweat from their brows. Soon to be replaced by sighs of relief, much rejoicing and patting of backs. It wasn't their fault after all, it wasn't due to the fact they were spineless, lack of skill or understanding of their classes, or the fact they had no taste for a challenge. In freeps' defense, when it comes to PvMP they still haven't gotten any from Turbine, challenge that is, PvMP is as freep biased and faceroll easy as it ever was. Sure, certain Creep classes owns 1v1s, and those that do do to such an extent it's an outright farce, I'm the first to admit that, but what all the whiners haven't got the brains/balls to see/admit is that when freeps get just half-descent mitigation to creep dam. AND the 62% bug is gone it's just another faceroll boredom of actually having fewer skills to worry about = only 1 clenched fist mashed randomly around the keyboard is going to be required, where as, sometimes, 2 was needed Pre-HD. But why am I bothering, the precious few with the insight to acknowledge this is already where anyone with a wee taste for challenging themselves belongs...creepside.


So, the real question isn't when will 12.1 launch, nor what it will entice. The question shouldn't be either (albeit a much better one) when will creeps see their update, no lads and lassies, the real question is: when will freeps grow a spine?


Edit: Oh and to answer the cries that prolly will follow after this post, I will answer with what have been shoved in the face of creeps for years, this is pvmp, not a 1v1 arena game, if you're playing a class that can't handle itself in 1v1s, go group up. Adapt. Survive. Grow a pair and keep going despite it being uphill. Hiding in Bree makes you look like what all creeps knew you were, a bunch of big girls blouses...

[jadacakai]

Lets toss some doom and gloom on this campfire before the boyscouts starts singing their praises and turn their glassy blue eyed gazes to the evening stars.

To keep everything in order; 1 of 2 things will happen in regards to the date of launch of 12.1 .

1.) They will force 12.1 out before Christmas (read the 18th.) resulting in another half finished cluster f... to fix yet another cluster f... which initially was made to cover up the cluster f... we all know as LotrO.

Or 2.) They will take their time and try and do things right the first time around. (haha, yea, I know...) Which would mean a week and then some in to the new year.

In either case, result will be the same, eventually being a freep will be boiled down to a level of easymode where they all will start nodding approvingly at themselves yet again. Flashing at first those insecure smiles while wipeing the sweat from their brows. Soon to be replaced by sighs of relief, much rejoicing and patting of backs. It wasn't their fault after all, it wasn't due to the fact they were spineless, lack of skill or understanding of their classes, or the fact they had no taste for a challenge. In freeps' defense, when it comes to PvMP they still haven't gotten any from Turbine, challenge that is, PvMP is as freep biased and faceroll easy as it ever was. Sure, certain Creep classes owns 1v1s, and those that do do to such an extent it's an outright farce, I'm the first to admit that, but what all the whiners haven't got the brains/balls to see/admit is that when freeps get just half-descent mitigation to creep dam. AND the 62% bug is gone it's just another faceroll boredom of actually having fewer skills to worry about = only 1 clenched fist mashed randomly around the keyboard is going to be required, where as, sometimes, 2 was needed Pre-HD. But why am I bothering, the precious few with the insight to acknowledge this is already where anyone with a wee taste for challenging themselves belongs...creepside.


So, the real question isn't when will 12.1 launch, nor what it will entice. The question shouldn't be either (albeit a much better one) when will creeps see their update, no lads and lassies, the real question is: when will freeps grow a spine?


Edit: Oh and to answer the cries that prolly will follow after this post, I will answer with what have been shoved in the face of creeps for years, this is pvmp, not a 1v1 arena game, if you're playing a class that can't handle itself in 1v1s, go group up. Adapt. Survive. Grow a pair and keep going despite it being uphill. Hiding in Bree makes you look like what all creeps knew you were, a bunch of big girls blouses...

Love it!!

Once mits and aud are fixed we are going to be pushing sh@t up hill once again. Creeps will need more than the ban-aid extra morale to offset the massive damage spike freeps will have.

[Lumbercamp]

In either case, result will be the same, eventually being a freep will be boiled down to a level of easymode where they all will start nodding approvingly at themselves yet again. Flashing at first those insecure smiles while wipeing the sweat from their brows. Soon to be replaced by sighs of relief, much rejoicing and patting of backs. It wasn't their fault after all, it wasn't due to the fact they were spineless, lack of skill or understanding of their classes, or the fact they had no taste for a challenge. In freeps' defense, when it comes to PvMP they still haven't gotten any from Turbine, challenge that is, PvMP is as freep biased and faceroll easy as it ever was. Sure, certain Creep classes owns 1v1s, and those that do do to such an extent it's an outright farce, I'm the first to admit that, but what all the whiners haven't got the brains/balls to see/admit is that when freeps get just half-descent mitigation to creep dam. AND the 62% bug is gone it's just another faceroll boredom of actually having fewer skills to worry about = only 1 clenched fist mashed randomly around the keyboard is going to be required, where as, sometimes, 2 was needed Pre-HD. But why am I bothering, the precious few with the insight to acknowledge this is already where anyone with a wee taste for challenging themselves belongs...creepside.


So, the real question isn't when will 12.1 launch, nor what it will entice. The question shouldn't be either (albeit a much better one) when will creeps see their update, no lads and lassies, the real question is: when will freeps grow a spine?

Awww, that hurts

[Ghosttaker]

Lets toss some doom and gloom on this campfire before the boyscouts starts singing their praises and turn their glassy blue eyed gazes to the evening stars.

To keep everything in order; 1 of 2 things will happen in regards to the date of launch of 12.1 .

1.) They will force 12.1 out before Christmas (read the 18th.) resulting in another half finished cluster f... to fix yet another cluster f... which initially was made to cover up the cluster f... we all know as LotrO.

Or 2.) They will take their time and try and do things right the first time around. (haha, yea, I know...) Which would mean a week and then some in to the new year.

In either case, result will be the same, eventually being a freep will be boiled down to a level of easymode where they all will start nodding approvingly at themselves yet again. Flashing at first those insecure smiles while wipeing the sweat from their brows. Soon to be replaced by sighs of relief, much rejoicing and patting of backs. It wasn't their fault after all, it wasn't due to the fact they were spineless, lack of skill or understanding of their classes, or the fact they had no taste for a challenge. In freeps' defense, when it comes to PvMP they still haven't gotten any from Turbine, challenge that is, PvMP is as freep biased and faceroll easy as it ever was. Sure, certain Creep classes owns 1v1s, and those that do do to such an extent it's an outright farce, I'm the first to admit that, but what all the whiners haven't got the brains/balls to see/admit is that when freeps get just half-descent mitigation to creep dam. AND the 62% bug is gone it's just another faceroll boredom of actually having fewer skills to worry about = only 1 clenched fist mashed randomly around the keyboard is going to be required, where as, sometimes, 2 was needed Pre-HD. But why am I bothering, the precious few with the insight to acknowledge this is already where anyone with a wee taste for challenging themselves belongs...creepside.


So, the real question isn't when will 12.1 launch, nor what it will entice. The question shouldn't be either (albeit a much better one) when will creeps see their update, no lads and lassies, the real question is: when will freeps grow a spine?


Edit: Oh and to answer the cries that prolly will follow after this post, I will answer with what have been shoved in the face of creeps for years, this is pvmp, not a 1v1 arena game, if you're playing a class that can't handle itself in 1v1s, go group up. Adapt. Survive. Grow a pair and keep going despite it being uphill. Hiding in Bree makes you look like what all creeps knew you were, a bunch of big girls blouses...

Although you're obviously in the revenge camp, which is ridiculous, you bring up some really valid points. There are some freeps out there though that do think this is alot of fun right now and are enjoyin the challenge. Knowng the other side just thinks this is payback makes it meh at best. Once freeps get new audacity gear it probably is over and the usual suspects will go back to Grams instead of taking some of your Freep tips above themselves. I wish we'd just get mits and let that run for a while first but the scenario above will prolly play out.

[doug01]

Lets toss some doom and gloom on this campfire before the boyscouts starts singing their praises and turn their glassy blue eyed gazes to the evening stars.

To keep everything in order; 1 of 2 things will happen in regards to the date of launch of 12.1 .

1.) They will force 12.1 out before Christmas (read the 18th.) resulting in another half finished cluster f... to fix yet another cluster f... which initially was made to cover up the cluster f... we all know as LotrO.

Or 2.) They will take their time and try and do things right the first time around. (haha, yea, I know...) Which would mean a week and then some in to the new year.

OR

3) "They will force 12.1 out before Christmas (read the 18th.) resulting in" they getting "things right the first time around. (haha, yea, I know...)"

IMO its not likely they'd "get it right" if they waited till next summer....

Just keep in mind what you or I consider getting "things right" may not be what someone else considers getting things right. There is far more to balancing Open PvP than just making sure classes have parity (if that's even possible without comparable classes).

Pretty sure the goal has always been that each faction be equal NOT each player/class be equal or have an equal.

[mrfigglesworth]

what if 12.1 comes, creep audacity is fixed, lvl 95 freep audacity is introduced, and the creep mitigation damages are removed, AND they actually bump up creep healing? Would creeps still be underpowered?

[Yula_the_Mighty]

12.1 is not a hotfix. It's a patch (and a good sized one at that). We had a hotfix previously in 12.0.1.

I take it by this statement that you run point updates thru the same regression and soak cycle that you run major update thru?

That is not the way we do it. There is a completely different process in our case for:

1) Major release like 12.
2) Minor release like 12.1 - much less testing and time spent.
3) Emergency release 12.0.1 - not much testing at all because the entire cycle is three days.

Some time value. Major release 4-6 weeks for the testing and soak (they come out once every 6-12 months)
Minor - 1 week for testing and soak (they come out once month - can't spend a month testing
Emergency - one day (they come out in 3 days)

We do all our updates on live (hot) systems while the customers are using them. Which sometimes results in lack of understanding when we talk to a company that brings their systems down like you do for updates. Hot could be important needs to be done quickly.

Or Hot could be we are doing it while the system is powered up and working. Nothing like working on a power company line when it is energized and the ants are crawling over your body. listening to the hum and singing. My dad that worked as design engineer for power system equipment could often tell when the equipment was not working properly because it sounded wrong.

[SabrielofLorien]

I take it by this statement that you run point updates thru the same regression and soak cycle that you run major update thru?

That is not the way we do it. There is a completely different process in our case for:

1) Major release like 12.
2) Minor release like 12.1 - much less testing and time spent.
3) Emergency release 12.0.1 - not much testing at all because the entire cycle is three days.

Some time value. Major release 4-6 weeks for the testing and soak (they come out once every 6-12 months)
Minor - 1 week for testing and soak (they come out once month - can't spend a month testing
Emergency - one day (they come out in 3 days)

No one but Turbine knows their QA cycle. You cannot determine when testing began or ended on any feature. If you do anything in SW you know well that many projects get delayed for other projects but those delayed projects have been in-the-queue-cycle for some time. Testing may be on going even when the Dev moves on to something else.

Testing is relative to the need of the item to be tested too. Much testing went on during beta and all that feedback is still available to QA to work with. Awareness of an emergency/hot-fix may have been identified long before it was actually deployed.

No SW house is going to hold up the show for long, the Devs don't stop working on their ToDo Lists just because they crossed something off the list.

[Blackheart-Fury]

what if 12.1 comes, creep audacity is fixed, lvl 95 freep audacity is introduced, and the creep mitigation damages are removed, AND they actually bump up creep healing? Would creeps still be underpowered?

Almost everything will need an increase in order for Creeps to have a chance after this update , otherwise Freep raids will be invincible...

[Nouri]

what if 12.1 comes, creep audacity is fixed, lvl 95 freep audacity is introduced, and the creep mitigation damages are removed, AND they actually bump up creep healing? Would creeps still be underpowered?

^^ That is what I'd like to see. Creep healing needs some serious scaling. While creeps have extremely large morale pools now, the healing isn't there to maintain them in RvR or group battles, and freep healing got a HUGE boost. Freeps also got huge increases to their DPS with the update, but most creeps saw their morale pools double or triple. We'll see if these increases turn out to be pretty much offsetting.

The 62% audacity bug, the lack of mitigations to the new creep damage types, and freep audacity gear that is 10 lvls outdated has made it pretty ez-mode on creepside since the update. I think most creeps would admit that. I'm hoping that Turbine's 12.1 changes here don't tip the balance so drastically as to make things ez-mode the other way, though.

[mrfigglesworth]

Almost everything will need an increase in order for Creeps to have a chance after this update , otherwise Freep raids will be invincible...

even with the loss of stun immune on freepside and the addition of wl bubbles with 1m cd? Those seem like staples on both sides that could definitely cause problems for freeps raids.

[Giliodor]

I hope you all realize that Turbine utterly forsook PvP this update. I mean... 55k morale pools aren't the way to balance things out, seriously. Also, the audacity bug was there since beta. Not on all creeps, but it was there. Why did it not get fixed then? Because the expansion's PvE wasn't finished yet. Turbine simply puts PvP in the last place. This point is again proven by the fact that at least 3 threads were made in the beta forums, concerning audacity (gear). Why did they not implement it? They did not care, PvE first. However, even the PvE is not yet finished. It's full of bugs (BB's anyway), so it's getting more and more clear that this expansion was not yet ready for launch. And then creeps start accusing freeps because they're not coming out? Lol. Of course they do not. I was playing on my reaver for an hour to see how it looks from the other side... I was shocked. 10k+ Impales with -62% incoming damage and perma Wrath... Mmmmyeah? Should I go fight that, with my champion, who crits Brutal Strikes for 500 in DPS gear (less than 50% of what it did on 85)? That's not challenging, it's pure suicide. Then I haven't talked about perma MT and Sprint & Dips yet. Just... Really? You can't scale freep damage properly, so creeps get an escape skill for every encounter? Sure, sure. I can understand the Devs don't hate any of us, and that they too try their best, but... Why not just delay the expansion, when it's so obvious that this was not supposed to make it to live?
Then, do creeps seriously think this is what it was on freepside during RoR? I can only laugh. With my 6 corruptions, I can 2 shot freeps with ease. Solo freeps don't even stand a chance. When I played my creeps in RoR, I could kill freeps. Sure, the best beat me, but the average ones I could beat most of the time. Now, however, my freep (not poorly played, but not ridiculously well either), stands no chance vs any R6+. This has got nothing to do with competence, it's simply bugged and broken.

[Teldra]

I hope you all realize that Turbine utterly forsook PvP this update. I mean...

etc. etc.

1. After playing both sides, I'm not sure that the 55k is enough. What I have seen is the universally acclaimed lamest of the of the classes, the Minstrel, does a consistent 10-11k dps. Thats without the ubercool jewelry or second age weaponry. (Honestly, Im just using my level 85 second age moors mace. Its not even a 95). That running the pure red skill tree. The pure blue healing line produces absurd levels of healing for pvp.

Realistically, the was required for Helms Deep. Look at Glittering Caves (easiest of the big battles). Seven waves of 13k Uruk decimated as fast as they get in range. I cant imagine how fast the mini/champ goes thorough that as a duo. Look at catapult damage on the Deeping Wall battle. At 5-6k the freep just explodes into dust, so Turbine had to up the morale to the 11-12k range so you can get a heal. The 55k creep in the moors is balanced against that number and the 5k aoe hits the freeps have now.

2. The messed up audacity bug is skewing all the Moors activity now. Turbine has said that they will fix it, hopefully correctly.

3. Missing lvl 95 armor and weapons is balanced by the missing new season of audacity for the creeps. Wheres the next 7 levels of audacity? This was a season end according to the last posts on seasons that I saw. I cant imagine the diminishing returns from the extra 6 corruption slots is really that effective.

4. Finally, if freeps would ease up on the demand for easy mode play, things would be reasonably tolerable. Its going to be a total freepanami by March when the freeps get all there stuff, their trees tuned, and second and first age weapons show up. Plus the inevitable nerfing of the creeps about that time.

If you really wanted a fun time, just allow the creeps to play on the other side of the big battles. Lets see what happens to the top of the Deeping Wall when mit enabled, intelligent AI creeps come up those ladders, and gang up on Gimli and toss him over the edge to the crowd below... (or more realistically focus firing on the commanders..)

Dainbrammaged [Defiler]

[Giliodor]

There's some of flaws in this post.

1. After playing both sides, I'm not sure that the 55k is enough. What I have seen is the universally acclaimed lamest of the of the classes, the Minstrel, does a consistent 10-11k dps. Thats without the ubercool jewelry or second age weaponry. (Honestly, Im just using my level 85 second age moors mace. Its not even a 95). That running the pure red skill tree. The pure blue healing line produces absurd levels of healing for pvp.

Realistically, the was required for Helms Deep. Look at Glittering Caves (easiest of the big battles). Seven waves of 13k Uruk decimated as fast as they get in range. I cant imagine how fast the mini/champ goes thorough that as a duo. Look at catapult damage on the Deeping Wall battle. At 5-6k the freep just explodes into dust, so Turbine had to up the morale to the 11-12k range so you can get a heal. The 55k creep in the moors is balanced against that number and the 5k aoe hits the freeps have now.

You did not understand. I simply said that huge morale pools vs a mere 15k on average, is in no way going to create balance. There's no way you can scale healing/damage with such a difference.

3. Missing lvl 95 armor and weapons is balanced by the missing new season of audacity for the creeps. Wheres the next 7 levels of audacity? This was a season end according to the last posts on seasons that I saw. I cant imagine the diminishing returns from the extra 6 corruption slots is really that effective.

Incorrect. Lvl 85 gear has lvl 85 stats, and you have to sacrifice lots to have 13 audacity. Also, you can now slot a full nuke build (3 crit 3 mastery seems good), while also using 3 critD 3 morale. No big deal? Not how I think about it.

4. Finally, if freeps would ease up on the demand for easy mode play, things would be reasonably tolerable. Its going to be a total freepanami by March when the freeps get all there stuff, their trees tuned, and second and first age weapons show up. Plus the inevitable nerfing of the creeps about that time.

Flawed yet again. I, personally, in no way encourage easymoding, nor do I myself want to. This, as I explained earlier, has nothing to do with easymoding. It's just utterly broken. You can't expect me to fight a R7 creep without any chance of winning. This is in no way the same as creeps have been during RoR. I want balance as much as the next PvP'er (I suppose), but this, is just madness.

[Blackheart-Fury]

There's some of flaws in this post.



You did not understand. I simply said that huge morale pools vs a mere 15k on average, is in no way going to create balance. There's no way you can scale healing/damage with such a difference.



Incorrect. Lvl 85 gear has lvl 85 stats, and you have to sacrifice lots to have 13 audacity. Also, you can now slot a full nuke build (3 crit 3 mastery seems good), while also using 3 critD 3 morale. No big deal? Not how I think about it.



Flawed yet again. I, personally, in no way encourage easymoding, nor do I myself want to. This, as I explained earlier, has nothing to do with easymoding. It's just utterly broken. You can't expect me to fight a R7 creep without any chance of winning. This is in no way the same as creeps have been during RoR. I want balance as much as the next PvP'er (I suppose), but this, is just madness.

Even with the bugged audacity on creepside(62% dmg reduction), bugged dmg (fell wrought,orc craft. freeps have no mits to it) and the fact that freeps have no aud gear , freeps are still holding their own especially from a grp standpoint. Once this update goes through, Freeps will be gods. Count on it.


Btw, if you cant beat any creeps on your warden right now ,esp w/ the unmitigated bleeds, you might wanna reevaluate something....

[Lumbercamp]

Even with the bugged audacity on creepside(62% dmg reduction), bugged dmg (fell wrought,orc craft. freeps have no mits to it) and the fact that freeps have no aud gear , freeps are still holding their own especially from a grp standpoint. Once this update goes through, Freeps will be gods. Count on it.


Btw, if you cant beat any creeps on your warden right now ,esp w/ the unmitigated bleeds, you might wanna reevaluate something....

A dps geared/specced warden was usually a lost fight against a reaver because of impale. 12 k morale went down pretty fast. The current 22-25 k build (depending upon rank) don't make that huge a difference...