Update 12.1 Captain Changes

[Almagnus1]

Bullroarer is now up.

Change list is at https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...JECT-TO-CHANGE

What do you think about the changes?

[Elrantiri]

Make sure to notice the General change:

• Tanks now generate additional threat when using healing skills.

I think that has a good lot of potential for Captanks, especially versus many targets.

Status on Bullroarer:
HoH To Arms: -7% inc damage, +15% outgoing damage, +25% outgoing healing
LoM: -15% inc damage, +15% healing, +15% outgoing damage
LtC: -7% inc damage, +25% outgoing damage, +15% outgoing healing

Martial Prowess now gives -5% attack duration per rank (3 ranks).

Standard of War now goes up to +30% damage, and the 5th point does absolutely nothing except making the skill Ground Targeted.
Standard of Valour now goes up to +30% inc healing
Quite sure Standard of Honour has gotten a good boost as well.

EDIT: my comments on the changes:

As much as traits should probably not be compared directly, I think it is weird that Deafening Shouts give +6% light damage while Skilled Hands give +6% tactical damage AND outgoing healing. All of our Light Damage skill are AFAIK tactical as well, so basically Skilled Hands has same effect as Deafening Shouts + 3% healing.
I would suggest moving the 3% melee damage from Martial Prowess to Deafening Shouts, as Martial Prowess has become very strong IMO.

I really like the changes to Bolstered Resolve and Absorb Momentum (which is probably obvious considering how much I whined about them in Beta :P ), the critical magnitude could easily be of use in HoH, LtC and perhaps even LoM if you build a lot of crit.

I think Reform the Lines needed a boost, so the +15% inc healing is appreciated.

Getting the boosts to To Arms will hopefully lessen the blow for the "Captain has lost flexibility" group, and either way it is nice to have a bonus that can be useful on everyone in your group rather than the very specific buffs we have on Live.

The 40m range on Standard of X feels really weird IMO and I'd like to see a larger area of effect for the buffs they bring.

[Hrodberht]

I had heard back in beta that 12.1 might introduce herald armaments that would change herald damage types to something other than common, human giving westernesse, and dwarf giving ancient dwarf were mentioned. I hope that has just been delayed and not canceled.

[Cadd_EU]

As much as traits should probably not be compared directly, I think it is weird that Deafening Shouts give +6% light damage while Skilled Hands give +6% tactical damage AND outgoing healing. All of our Light Damage skill are AFAIK tactical as well, so basically Skilled Hands has same effect as Deafening Shouts + 3% healing.

No, Shadow's Lament is Light Damage now aswell, so at least one Melee skill boosted by Deafening Shouts but not by Skilled Hands.

[Elrantiri]

No, Shadow's Lament is Light Damage now aswell, so at least one Melee skill boosted by Deafening Shouts but not by Skilled Hands.

I know SL is now Light damage, but given how Light damage is usually tactical regardless (and for targeted mobs mitigation it is calculated as tactical damage IIRC), I thought it would still get boosts from Tactical Damage. You're right though, it doesn't apply to SL, and neither to Standard of X. That on the other makes Tactical Damage boost a very underwhelming bonus.

[Almagnus1]

I had heard back in beta that 12.1 might introduce herald armaments that would change herald damage types to something other than common, human giving westernesse, and dwarf giving ancient dwarf were mentioned. I hope that has just been delayed and not canceled.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

I have a feeling that the pet system is probably a bit more archaic (and static) than we want to believe it is.

[commanderjerkface]

What exactly does making a skill 'ground targeted' do?

Cheers

[baue8673]

I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

I have a feeling that the pet system is probably a bit more archaic (and static) than we want to believe it is.

You can aim it a specific spot on the ground without a target. Which is nice. For example, I can drop my aoe standard in the best location to hit the most mobs whenever. Rather than waiting for something to get where I want it and then targetting and hitting that mob.

[Othniel]

What exactly does making a skill 'ground targeted' do?

Cheers

You click on the skill, and then you can place it on the ground anywhere within range. Similar to how the new Hunter traps work.

[Bezmer]

You click on the skill, and then you can place it on the ground anywhere within range. Similar to how the new Hunter traps work.

How does that work with target effects on standards (light damage to target, increased damage to target)? Do these not kick in unless a mob is targeted when the standard is dropped?

[baue8673]

How does that work with target effects on standards (light damage to target, increased damage to target)? Do these not kick in unless a mob is targeted when the standard is dropped?

There is the square that shows the effect, same as it is now. If something isn't in that square when it first hits, it doesn't get the initial damage.

[Bezmer]

I know SL is now Light damage, but given how Light damage is usually tactical regardless (and for targeted mobs mitigation it is calculated as tactical damage IIRC), I thought it would still get boosts from Tactical Damage. You're right though, it doesn't apply to SL, and neither to Standard of X. That on the other makes Tactical Damage boost a very underwhelming bonus.

We're back to the old attack type vs damage type, and that both have a "tactical" kind. So unless we know which classification is used here, it's hard to say what the effects will be.

For example, battle-readied provides +5 to melee and tactical -- which clearly refers to tactical attack type, since otherwise it's supposed to be providing double bonus to Shadow's Lament (which is a melee a ttack dealing tactical damage), which cannot be WAI.

Once again, I'll use this occasion to ask for straighten out the convention, because it is unnecessarily confusing, and the fix is simple. It really shouldn't be that hardto refer to the non-physical damage type as something else (elemental, arcane, chanelling, or indeed simply non-physical). Please?

[RockX]

Each skill should say what type of an attack it is on the tooltip. While Shadow's Lament deals Light-type damage, it is still listed as a 'Melee skill'. This means it will benefit from Physical Mastery. Technically, I'm pretty sure we could make versions of Tactical Skills, like Battle-shout, deal types like Beleriand, normally seen on weapons. The damage type isn't what matters in that regard, it's what type of skill we assign it to be (melee/ranged/tactical).

Edit: Now proceeding to pre-emptively duck and cover under my desk before Engineers start shooting me with nerf darts.

[Almagnus1]

Any thoughts on making the following legacy change?

To Arms Duration => Inspire Cirtical Chance

Also with the change is merging the To Arms duration into the base skill, since every captain is going to have that legacy regardless of traiting due to the buffing of To Arms - putting it in the same category as the buff legacies you shot during HD Beta.

I'm choosing Inspire because it would be nice to help make that skill crit more frequently.

[Cadd_EU]

Each skill should say what type of an attack it is on the tooltip. While Shadow's Lament deals Light-type damage, it is still listed as a 'Melee skill'. This means it will benefit from Physical Mastery. Technically, I'm pretty sure we could make versions of Tactical Skills, like Battle-shout, deal types like Beleriand, normally seen on weapons. The damage type isn't what matters in that regard, it's what type of skill we assign it to be (melee/ranged/tactical).

Edit: Now proceeding to pre-emptively duck and cover under my desk before Engineers start shooting me with nerf darts.

This really just strengthens the argument that the name "Tactical" really shouldn't be used for two different things as it is now (Tactical Skills as opposed to Melee or Ranged skills and Tactical Damage as opposed to Common Damage). One of those names really should be changed. Personally, I'm more for changing the name of the damage type.

[ssslippy]

Any thoughts on making the following legacy change?

To Arms Duration => Inspire Cirtical Chance

Also with the change is merging the To Arms duration into the base skill, since every captain is going to have that legacy regardless of traiting due to the buffing of To Arms - putting it in the same category as the buff legacies you shot during HD Beta.

I'm choosing Inspire because it would be nice to help make that skill crit more frequently.

Is this something is on test server only as I do not see it mentioned in patch notes.

[Almagnus1]

Is this something is on test server only as I do not see it mentioned in patch notes.

It's a suggestion, not something going live.

[SapienChavez]

I like these changes.



Id like to see all build-specific legacies go away, or be rolled into versions that benefit from all three trait trees. Telling Mark and Noble Mark are not only seperate, but one is a weapon leg and one is a class legacy... couldn't they be a single legacy that increases mark potency (and brings the old armor bonus back to revealing mark, perhaps? always need a rider on any bill I propose!) ?

I really thought the essence of the last xpac was to trim-fat and make things more stream-lined and simplified. the way it is now, I need three weapons and two emblems....

...that's more clutter than my old buff-sticks caused.

[Bezmer]

I like these changes.



Id like to see all build-specific legacies go away, or be rolled into versions that benefit from all three trait trees. Telling Mark and Noble Mark are not only seperate, but one is a weapon leg and one is a class legacy... couldn't they be a single legacy that increases mark potency (and brings the old armor bonus back to revealing mark, perhaps? always need a rider on any bill I propose!) ?

I really thought the essence of the last xpac was to trim-fat and make things more stream-lined and simplified. the way it is now, I need three weapons and two emblems....

...that's more clutter than my old buff-sticks caused.

Marks don't depend on spec -- you can have two or even all three marks depending on how you spend your trait points. Skills like Oathbreaker's Shame and Valiant strike do, but I doubt there's a way (or, indeed, a need) to cut their corresponding legacies out.