Which US server usually has the highest population?

[JasonA.]

I have heard about Brandywine, Crickhollow, Firefoot, and Landroval.
But which is constantly populated?
Which have lots of events(RP, etc.)?
Lots of raids/instances?
Even in the less inhabited areas I like to see at least a few players here and there.
Yeah, stuff like that

[Sapience]

I have heard about Brandywine, Crickhollow, Firefoot, and Landroval.
But which is constantly populated?
Which have lots of events(RP, etc.)?
Lots of raids/instances?
Even in the less inhabited areas I like to see at least a few players here and there.
Yeah, stuff like that

It's going to depend heavily on a number of things. Time zone being one. Your current level is another.

If you're looking for North American Roleplay, I'd strongly recommend Landroval. They are the Roleplay encouraged server for North America.

[rosey21]

If your looking for lots of RP events, Landroval is the server to go too. There is always stuff going on. Well populated server with many friendly & helpful players.

I have to say I have been on many of the servers & visited many housing areas & I have never seen so many homes letting visitors to go into there homes as Landroval.

[Lilith_666]

Brandywine is very populated and glff is massively active
tons of things always going on, end game and pvmp is main focus on the majority though
there is no RP scene, there is the rare RP enabled name, but from my inspection, they themselves are not even roleplaying at all.

[Leixy]

Something that I've found is severely lacking when someone joins a server is a lack of connection to community. The first few weeks can be excruciating for a new player, not only because its a new game that they don't know, but also because they don't understand the many tools that are uniformly used for finding kinships, finding fellowships, understanding channels, etc.

1. One thing that might help boost a new player's ability to interact upon joining a server would be an interactive and re-playable tutorial "a little like the big battle tutorial in Bree" where a NPC would help a player learn how to use Instance Finder, Certified Chat channels, Social Panel, Fellowship Finder, etc. The NPC might do things like force them to learn how to ask/answer questions in /Advice, etc... Even give them a quest to deliver an item to another social NPC at the 2nd quest hub. i.e. Combe, Gondamon, Tuckborough, etc... where that NPC can remind them of what they learned, and give them a recurring quest to go back to the original NPC via a story line.

2. Another thing that would help is to change quests so that they can be re-done, even for no/little experience. For example, in instances a player can complete the same quest over and over again, but generally only 1 time on landscape. If you change the quest log so that, when in fellowship with a player, you can see which quests they are doing (even though you don't have the quest yourself, or have already completed it) you can jump right in and help that player do them. Maybe make an option for "Reaccept Quest." For example, a lvl 12 player in Staddle, doesn't know how to get to the marshes, or is a RL friend of a level 95 who is playing. The level 95 could fellow them, see which quests they are doing, accept the quest long ago completed, and partner with them for the content. The 95 will not get xp credit for the second quest, but can mentor / play with their friend regardless. I often see players cry for help in the wilderness of the Trollshaws, but since an upper level has already completed the quest, its a huge hassle to help someone where you can't even accept/read their quest dialogs. I could see this being a problem for phasing technology in the new areas with missing NPCs, etc... or make it so that NPCs phase in for quests when shared.

If I recall correctly, new players only get the 1 pop-up window for guidance, and if they select, "do not show this again" the advice disappears forever. Considering every menu has this pop-up as a new player, it would be helpful to make this a more interactive / and re-playable experience to help new / returning players get up to speed. From my own experience playing MMOs, I usually spend the first 5 hours figuring out stuff, and pop-up windows only help you retain their knowledge for limited duration when you're already overwhelmed by everything else happening.

Also, for returning players who have not logged in for months/years, maybe enable a "welcome back" series of pop-ups to help get them back up to speed on the GUI, maybe even port them back to archet etc for the tutorial. I often see players coming back after years away who have to spend days just trying to remember how to do the basics. Often get aggravated that they don't remember/recognize the changes to the game, and they leave again.

The quicker a player can get connected to another player for help, or be reminded of what is happening after many months / years away from LotRO, the more likely we are to retain their interest in this game. Enhancing, reminding, and retaining population should be a key goal of Turbine going forward.

[JasonA.]

Btw I'm not that new at this game.
I have a level 88 minstrel on wittywindle.

[Saniko]

I can't answer all your questions, but maybe I can help with your first one. My home server is Firefoot because I wanted that "less crowded" feel and I liked the name, and since Weatherstock 2013 I occasionally drop in on Landroval. Speaking of Weatherstock, Landroval is better for events, but more players in one spot means more lag, if that matters to you -- I ended up watching it on someone's stream. Your timezone/playtime definitely makes a difference.

Here are the numbers so far from my attempt to track Firefoot's population for curiosity's sake. (In Social panel, clear out "Filter" box, enter each level range in the "Player Level" boxes, and record in Excel.) Trying to stick to a Tu/Fri/Sun schedule with mixed results. All times are /servertime. Please note the unequal level ranges.

Day	Time	1-20	21-40	41-60	61-80	81-94	95-95	1-95	glff
Tu 2/25	1:30pm	40	42	23	26	19	29	179
	4:00pm	33	30	34	25	20	37	179
	10:15pm	35	34	45	38	36	59	247	83
	12:40am	15	18	16	20	17	41	127	55
Fri 2/28	1:15pm	31	35	19	26	17	21	149	36
	3:45pm	32	39	26	19	21	23	160	38
	8:00pm
	12:00am
Sun 3/2	12:30pm	48	44	48	36	29	30	235	53
	4:30pm	51	59	56	66	30	62	324	85
	8:30pm	44	43	49	60	36	45	277	87
	12:30am	33	34	16	23	14	49	169	61
Tu 3/4	1:45pm	48	32	27	21	17	27	172	33
	4:00pm	37	28	29	17	26	25	162	34
	8:00pm	31	40	35	35	14	52	207	69
	12:00am	28	28	34	25	20	24	159	51

For comparison, Firefoot vs Landroval at 4pm /servertime today:

Server	1-20	21-40	41-60	61-80	81-94	95-95	1-95	glff
Firefoot	31	39	29	21	20	17	157	39
Landroval	53	51	65	46	36	70	321	168

Guhhh, tables.

[Angadan]

Purely highest population? Brandywine, followed at fair distance by Landroval, then all the rest in a rat-tail shaped diminishing curve after that. That's from the recent Bounder's Bounty competition results which, while not precisely tied to server populations, were a fair approximation of them (and the most direct source we have, since Turbine does not release population numbers).

As Sapience said, the time of day you play will affect your personal experience...still, I suspect Brandy-Landy-Others is pretty much true 24 hours a day. Brandywine's sizable and dynamic Chinese contingent keep things going fast during the hours the Europeans and North Americans aren't. And Landy "plays bigger" even than it is because of all its RP activities.

You specifically asked about RP, so I'd join others in the thread in pointing you toward Landy. Second to none in North American RP (Europe also has a hugely strong RP server, but you're asking about NA). But you also asked about raids and instance runs, and Brandywine is second to none (in NA, again) for those. Bottom line is, one of the two might be just right for you. If it were me, I'd roll a toon on both servers, get them through the starter zone, then spend a few days listening in on GLFF, talking to people, etc. Then make a decision after that. Or keep both toons and grow up on both servers simultaneously until the decision eventually makes itself for you.

Whatever you choose, I wish you fun.

[rosey21]

Purely highest population? Brandywine, followed at fair distance by Landroval, then all the rest in a rat-tail shaped diminishing curve after that. That's from the recent Bounder's Bounty competition results which, while not precisely tied to server populations, were a fair approximation of them (and the most direct source we have, since Turbine does not release population numbers).

Gilrain which I believe to be pretty much the lowest populated server finished 18th. So I would not say the bounder's event was a fair approximation for population.

[Angadan]

Gilrain which I believe to be pretty much the lowest populated server finished 18th. So I would not say the bounder's event was a fair approximation for population.

Maybe the folks in all the servers that finished after Gilrain think they're the lowest populated servers, too.

[rosey21]

Maybe the folks in all the servers that finished after Gilrain think they're the lowest populated servers, too.

Well I'm having a hard time believing Gilrain has a higher population then Vilya, Riddermark, Silverlode, Arkenstone, Crickhollow & those are just some of the servers who finished after Gilrain.

[Nymphonic]

Brandywine is very populated and glff is massively active
tons of things always going on, end game and pvmp is main focus on the majority though
there is no RP scene, there is the rare RP enabled name, but from my inspection, they themselves are not even roleplaying at all.

I play several alts on Brandywine and I can second this. I always see people everywhere I go on Brandywine.

[Angadan]

Well I'm having a hard time believing Gilrain has a higher population then Vilya, Riddermark, Silverlode, Arkenstone, Crickhollow & those are just some of the servers who finished after Gilrain.

I apologize, reading back over my first response to you, it sounded flippant--I didn't mean it to be. You have a valid point: the Bounder's Bounty numbers depended on a few variables, only one of which was population. Others were typical activity of the players (e.g., socializing versus leveling...socializing toons earned no bounties; leveling toons did), and whether the population rallied to the cause.

When there were significant differences in the sizes of the populations, I think size was the deciding factor. Brandywine is so much bigger than Landroval, for instance, that I think Landy (and the other NA servers) really had no chance of catching it. Even rallying the troops would only make a limited difference, because there would be people trying to rally on both servers, and people resisting being rallied on both servers. One might be marginally more successful than the other, but the difference would not be anywhere near enough to overcome the significant population disparity.

But when the populations between two or more servers are close to the same, and espcially if the communities are small, efforts like rallying and the "personality" of the server (more social-oriented vs more activity-driven) can be enough to shift the results around.

When I mentioned the "rats-tail" tapering off of populations (and Bounder's Bounty results) earlier, I was referring to that "a few big, a few more medium, then a lot of smaller servers" type of profile. It looked a lot like this in the Bounder's Bounty standing charts:

|*****
|*********
|***********
|*************
|******************
|*****************************
------------------------------------------------------------
....1.....2......................XYZ

Where Brandywine was at the '1', Landroval was the '2', and Gilrain / Riddermark / Vilya / etc. were the in the XYZ part of the chart.

So yes, absolutely, Gilrain may have been hitting well above its weight in the Bounty competition, and have outscored servers with (marginally) larger populations. But in a thread where the OP is asking what the biggest and most active servers are, the muddying of the Bounty results as a population indicator at the lower end of the spectrum is kind of just academic.

I hope this is a less flippant answer than I originally gave, and I apologize again for it.

[Beleg]

Some bounder's data (sorry, I don't have the source for this one):



These (I produced) are somewhat out of date, but might be interesting:

This one counts the number of threads (not posts) which were updated between Jan and May 2012. It only looks at each server's main forum (not the Kinship/Trace/PvP forums; and the current state of non-English forums doesn't represent those communities very accurately).



And for PvMP:

[rosey21]

I apologize, reading back over my first response to you, it sounded flippant--I didn't mean it to be. You have a valid point: the Bounder's Bounty numbers depended on a few variables, only one of which was population. Others were typical activity of the players (e.g., socializing versus leveling...socializing toons earned no bounties; leveling toons did), and whether the population rallied to the cause.

When there were significant differences in the sizes of the populations, I think size was the deciding factor. Brandywine is so much bigger than Landroval, for instance, that I think Landy (and the other NA servers) really had no chance of catching it. Even rallying the troops would only make a limited difference, because there would be people trying to rally on both servers, and people resisting being rallied on both servers. One might be marginally more successful than the other, but the difference would not be anywhere near enough to overcome the significant population disparity.

But when the populations between two or more servers are close to the same, and espcially if the communities are small, efforts like rallying and the "personality" of the server (more social-oriented vs more activity-driven) can be enough to shift the results around.

When I mentioned the "rats-tail" tapering off of populations (and Bounder's Bounty results) earlier, I was referring to that "a few big, a few more medium, then a lot of smaller servers" type of profile. It looked a lot like this in the Bounder's Bounty standing charts:

|*****
|*********
|***********
|*************
|******************
|*****************************
------------------------------------------------------------
....1.....2......................XYZ

Where Brandywine was at the '1', Landroval was the '2', and Gilrain / Riddermark / Vilya / etc. were the in the XYZ part of the chart.

So yes, absolutely, Gilrain may have been hitting well above its weight in the Bounty competition, and have outscored servers with (marginally) larger populations. But in a thread where the OP is asking what the biggest and most active servers are, the muddying of the Bounty results as a population indicator at the lower end of the spectrum is kind of just academic.

I hope this is a less flippant answer than I originally gave, and I apologize again for it.

No prob

Also there were many who hoarded there tokens because of the low drop rate(which I don't blame them for doing) plus there were people who didn't even bother with this event because of the low drop rate in tokens most of the event.

[Angadan]

Nice charts, Mosby! Yeah, that Bounder's Bounty screen capture you have is from just a few days after Vanyar reached the goal (you can see a few other servers, including Brandywine, had crossed the finish line by then, too). It does show, very well, the rats-tail curve I was talking about, thanks. Significantly, things did jostle around some after that point...for instance, Landy ended up 6th overall on the statue in Michel Delving, but at the point of your screen capture was back in a statistical tie for the 7th-9th positions. Also Gilrain is shown dead last here, but we know from Rosey21 that they ended up 18th of the 29.

I find it harder to interpret the other charts. First, they stretch back quite a ways, to the beginning of 2012 (a little over two years ago). Which means servers like Elendilmir, whose populations have been decimated over that time period, look far larger than they are today. Also, there are a host of other dynamics that go into forum posts beyond population; far more variables than are involved in something like the Bounder's Bounty competition. The biggest thing those two charts tell me is that RPers like the good people on Landy also tend to be heavy forum participants. Which is interesting...just not a good indicator of population and in-game activities.

Thanks again for these, they were really interesting to look at!

[Beleg]

there are a host of other dynamics that go into forum posts beyond population...

Right; I don't think they would correlate highly to population; but they might correlate reasonably well to overall server activity.

But as we noted; they are from the first half of 2012. If I get some time, I'll generate some new ones, just to see if there are any interesting differences with more recent data.

[J_Howell]

Significantly, things did jostle around some after that point...for instance, Landy ended up 6th overall on the statue in Michel Delving, but at the point of your screen capture was back in a statistical tie for the 7th-9th positions. Also Gilrain is shown dead last here, but we know from Rosey21 that they ended up 18th of the 29.

There was a claim by those who took the Bounder's Bounty very seriously that Gilrain got a drop rate increase that no other server received, accounting for its jump from last to middle of the pack. I have no comment one way or the other about whether that's plausible or not, since I didn't take the Bounty very seriously.

Regarding the use of the Bounty results as a proxy for population - it sort of works, sort of doesn't. Depends on what you're looking for. My interest in server population is exclusively for level cap grouping; for that purpose Brandywine and Landroval are the only US servers worth even thinking about, all the others are about equally tiny and dead. The Bounty results count all levels, however. The reason Meneldor did so well is because it was the recommended server during the Bounty - same small population of 85s as Arkenstone, Vilya, Crickhollow, Firefoot, or Elendilmir, but tons of low level characters swarming around the starter zones questing, earning Bounty tokens, and turning them in. So I'd say the Bounty results are reasonable as a snapshot of total population last fall, but not so useful for identifying truly active servers. Unless you know which servers were recommended during which time periods, and have server-scouting alts scattered all over the place with which you count the number of players of the level range relevant to you at the times you typically play. In which case you don't need or want a crude proxy like the Bounty results anyway.

One other related point - for anyone considering server transfers, if you want to pay with TP, you need to do it ASAP. There was a thread that mentioned this yesterday that has since been moved or deleted for some reason (at least I can't find it today). Turbine's "announcement" such as it is can be found here. A very prominent and easily seen notification of an impending change, way down there in the Account Support forum nobody reads unless they have an account support problem. If it weren't for yesterday's now-missing general discussion thread, I would have remained unaware of it and would have been totally shafted - basically would have lost three of the four characters I still care about playing at cap, permanently stranded on dead servers, since I hadn't planned on doing those transfers until at least U13...

[Crell_1]

Interesting server-forum charts. I do think that some servers are more prone to using their server subforums than others. I feel like I see more users from Riddermark posting anywhere but the server forums for example. Some servers seem to have communities that use other social media more, such as Facebook.

[Angadan]

...Regarding the use of the Bounty results as a proxy for population - it sort of works, sort of doesn't. Depends on what you're looking for. My interest in server population is exclusively for level cap grouping; for that purpose Brandywine and Landroval are the only US servers worth even thinking about, all the others are about equally tiny and dead. The Bounty results count all levels, however. The reason Meneldor did so well is because it was the recommended server during the Bounty - same small population of 85s as Arkenstone, Vilya, Crickhollow, Firefoot, or Elendilmir, but tons of low level characters swarming around the starter zones questing, earning Bounty tokens, and turning them in. So I'd say the Bounty results are reasonable as a snapshot of total population last fall, but not so useful for identifying truly active servers.....

Hey, J_Howell, yep, I understand your points. On the other hand, all day today I've been running a population tally on six different servers (BW, Landy, Crickhollow, Vilya, Riddermark, Gilrain), and have done spot checks on a few others (Vanyar, Firefoot, Meneldor) without capturing all their details in the charts I'm assembling. Brandywine (and what I've seen of Vanyar) are certainly biggest, and Landroval next after. But perhaps surprisingly to you, I know it was to me, Meneldor appears to be about the same size as Landy--including having (roughly) just as many level 95s. Guess all those little 'recommended server' newbies from last fall have grown up!

This isn't conclusive stuff, I've only been at it through four two-hour checks so far, and even after I finish it will only have been one 16-hour period on one single Friday. But still, illustrative.

Looking so far like Vanyar and Brandywine are huge (we knew that), Landy and Meneldor are at the bigger end of the mid-sized servers, Crickhollow and Vilya are at the lower end of the mid-sized, and Gilrain, Riddermark, and Firefoot are all about equally small.

When I get the 16-hour test finished for the main six I'm tracking, I'll put it here. There are some neat idiosyncracies in it.

[J_Howell]

Hey, J_Howell, yep, I understand your points. On the other hand, all day today I've been running a population tally on six different servers (BW, Landy, Crickhollow, Vilya, Riddermark, Gilrain), and have done spot checks on a few others (Vanyar, Firefoot, Meneldor) without capturing all their details in the charts I'm assembling. Brandywine (and what I've seen of Vanyar) are certainly biggest, and Landroval next after. But perhaps surprisingly to you, I know it was to me, Meneldor appears to be about the same size as Landy--including having (roughly) just as many level 95s. Guess all those little 'recommended server' newbies from last fall have grown up!

When I get the 16-hour test finished for the main six I'm tracking, I'll put it here. There are some neat idiosyncracies in it.

Apparently they have! That is surprising to me, both that the "recommended server" crowd got to 95 so fast (IIRC it took me about ten months to get to 65, back in the day...) and that enough of them are still around to make a difference. Thanks for continuing your observations!

I look forward to seeing your results. Maybe you should get a special forum title for your efforts - "Censor" seems cool to me, in the ancient Roman sense of an official performing the census. Modern usage might make that too loaded to work well, I don't know...

P.S. Figured out where the "missing" server transfer thread I mentioned was - it got merged into the Account Support forum announcement thread.

[Angadan]

LOL, man, I'm just hoping I don't get a special title: BANNED, for counting and sharing population data that Turbine apparently prefers not be public! I mean, they have the real numbers, including anonymous people, but choose (for probably very good reasons) not to publish them.

[Beleg]

Here's some more recent data (forum threads updated since July 1 2013):

[frickinmuck]

No prob

Also there were many who hoarded there tokens because of the low drop rate(which I don't blame them for doing) plus there were people who didn't even bother with this event because of the low drop rate in tokens most of the event.

I confess I was one of the people who saved many of my tokens because I am a housing fiend and NEEDED multiples of all the housing items. I did contribute all my tokens until the server wide deed was completed (and I completed the deed on one or two of my characters), but after that I saved. I'm sure I can't be the only one who did this.

Oh, and hi Mosby! Doesn't surprise me to see you being as helpful in the forums as you are in-game!

[Angadan]

Wow, Mosby, that is interesting. Roughly one-fourth of all server-specific forum activity is found in the homes of the two best-known RP servers.