dear turbine

[karathnikith]

is there at any point where you will review infractions that were given out by sapience abusing his administrative power?

he was notaries for banning, removing post and giving infractions unjustly while he worked at turbine, this sort of injustice should be held accountable.

[SyKitty]

No more "Law and Order" for you, young man.

[Octaviane]

First of all, you have broken the ToS, CoC and Eula, by mentioning someone's name...past or present, player or Turbine employee, it doesn't matter. That alone can get you in serious hot water, not to mention your "opinions". If you have issues regarding previous infractions, you should PM our new Community Manager and not post here. I'm sure you know his name.

[The_Jagannath]

First of all, you have broken the ToS, CoC and Eula, by mentioning someone's name...past or present, player or Turbine employee, it doesn't matter. That alone can get you in serious hot water, not to mention your "opinions". If you have issues regarding previous infractions, you should PM our new Community Manager and not post here. I'm sure you know his name.

Serious hot water? =O

You make it sound like someone's life is in danger. = |

[Saxination]

./signed ^_^

[BangoTwinkletoes]

First of all, you have broken the ToS, CoC and Eula, by mentioning someone's name...past or present, player or Turbine employee, it doesn't matter. That alone can get you in serious hot water, not to mention your "opinions". If you have issues regarding previous infractions, you should PM our new Community Manager and not post here. I'm sure you know his name.

So, given the time of year and that certain spooky holiday that is almost upon us, if I stand in front of a mirror with the lights out and say "Sapience, Sapience, Sapience" then turn the lights on, do I see the words "BANNED!" scrawled in lipstick in front of me?????

edit - or would it be "Soon!" ????

[Radhruin_EU]

So, given the time of year and that certain spooky holiday that is almost upon us, if I stand in front of a mirror with the lights out and say "Sapience, Sapience, Sapience" then turn the lights on, do I see the words "BANNED!" scrawled in lipstick in front of me?????

edit - or would it be "Soon!" ????

Yes, I think finding 'SOON' scrawled on the mirror in red dry-wipe marker might be more like it.

We've got a real shot here, Bango. An entire community starts attributing the daily horrors of their lives to a mythical figure.

[Wof]

Yes, I think finding 'SOON' scrawled on the mirror in red dry-wipe marker might be more like it.

We've got a real shot here, Bango. An entire community starts attributing the daily horrors of their lives to a mythical figure.

There were a lot of infractions handed out unjustly that should be put right. I got an infraction for quoting part of a post in my thread, despite the original post I quoted being deemed ok. My husband got and infraction, didn't understand why and asked for clarification, the result was a lifetime ban for daring to query it!

[Herwegur]

I'm glad someone brought this up. Up until a few months ago, this forum felt like an unwelcome place to discuss lotro, as the merest sharing of a personal opinion was likely to result in infraction or ban, if it was not the "correct", "approved" opinion.

This July I made a post in a discussion saying that I think majority of players like grouping, yet I received an infraction for "fabricated/misleading information". Someone was taking the administrative power a little too far. This was not the "open, welcoming place for discussions" that the forum banner promised.

I am glad to say that over the past few months, this forum has had a palpable change of atmosphere for the better. Discussions are more dynamic and relaxed, and multiple viewpoints are tolerated. Thank you for that.

The fact that players are reaching out to Turbine asking to review older infractions is a sign these players are still here, and still love/care about the game. As a gesture of goodwill, please consider this request and let bygones be bygones - all the more because it happened before the personnel change, and those earlier decisions do not reflect the forum in its current state.

[marvinrond]

I am a long time veteran of many online forum systems. While I understand the need to weed out troublemakers, I firmly believe that there should be some sort of appeal or review system set up. Over the last several months, I have seen or heard of many questionable suspensions and bans taking place. Some for nothing more than minor disagreement.

Respectful disagreement or constructive criticism can be used as a learning tool to help decide the direction of the game as it can show the wishes of the user base and should, IMO, never be punished.

Please review the recent bans and reverse any found to be unnecessary or over the top.

Marvinrond.

[Ethrildar]

First of all, you have broken the ToS, CoC and Eula, by mentioning someone's name...past or present, player or Turbine employee, it doesn't matter. That alone can get you in serious hot water, not to mention your "opinions". If you have issues regarding previous infractions, you should PM our new Community Manager and not post here. I'm sure you know his name.

Lol are you high? Mentioning someones forum name is not against any ToS, CoC or EULA. Get over yourself... How dare someone voice their opinions...? You'd do well in a dictatorship with those sorts of attitudes.

Adding to the post, I was banned for a week by Sapience for posting a picture of Jackie Chan on the forums. If that's not an abuse of power I don't know what is.

[theFragmagnet]

People were seldom banned for 'voicing their opinion'. That is unless their opinion was something that is clearly listed as a 'bannable topic'.
People were often banned for the manner in which they 'voiced their opinion'.

[kickman77]

I do not agree with that... there are a select few that still post on these forums who think they are above others and those posters would intentionally derail any thread they could that had to do with grouping.... usually starting the post with "I dont raid" they even stormed the raiding forum.

Now, if you do not riad, do not care about raiding and state that in your post.. why are you posting in every single raiding thread and forum here... to derail and get people banned. Those who were derailing were allowed to get away with this over and over as well as other CoC violations..

A lot of those banned also post from another forum and some here have had issues with them and have intetionally trolled and derailed their threads here for the purpose of getting them banned.

So yes... some were banned because they broke the rules I will agree with that... but there were a lot more banned for a lot less while others were allowed to run around these forums doing whatever they wanted... even to the point where one of them postes that they felt the NEW CM stunk at his job because certain threads remained open... That is how brazen they got. Now with a new CM some of them have almost stopped posting all together because they know they can not get away with these violations and if you notice the forums are a much nicer place.

[Snowlock]

People were seldom banned for 'voicing their opinion'.

I don't think you have access to the statistics required to make this claim, do you? Though, I do think it's telling you use the word "seldom".

[Tenuke]

Agreed 100%

The change of atmoshphere in forums was totally visible quite fast after Sapience left!

He permbanned me from speaking in Twitch after 1 single sarcastic comment in there :-D
And also handed out infraction in forums for some one sarcastic comment.

And also got infractions for asking in forums why in-game moderation does not seem to happen at all
when one mad man abused the chat for a loooong time on very regular basis. I DID NOT NAME ANYONE.
Nor did I even say out loud what server it is. or anything..
So every bit of criticism was easily punished.. Those sad times..

[choon_blaze]

He was a sad man indeed. Because of him, once a decent community has vanished. Extremely poor community management and banning people whenever he felt like it. Anyone who remains on these forums are his followers who are equally toxic to the community. It's a good thing he was fired but too little too late...

[Octaviane]

Lol are you high? Mentioning someones forum name is not against any ToS, CoC or EULA. Get over yourself... How dare someone voice their opinions...? You'd do well in a dictatorship with those sorts of attitudes.

Adding to the post, I was banned for a week by Sapience for posting a picture of Jackie Chan on the forums. If that's not an abuse of power I don't know what is.

I am not saying that there weren't issues either because there were. I even submitted a PM myself a few months ago when a perfectly reasonable post was closed because it "mirrored" another that had been written by *can't say here*. The PM was never answered. As I said, if the OP wants a review, if anyone wants a review, they can and should PM the new Community manager directly and not start up another *angry* Forum post where people feel they have Carte Blanche to hurl insults at one another because they don't like what is being said. Sadly, this kind of behavior is happening more often of late. So, instead of screaming foul, it would have been much more appropriate to address the issue in a different manner. Might even have received some positive attention and results that way.

I had a perfect right to make a comment, just the same as you did and my objection is the way in which the post was delivered by the OP.

[Pausekey]

I would like this to be looked into as well. I was hit with a late round penalty, right before his absence from Turbine. I replied to the message but got no response. I strongly feel it was a last effort on his part to enact revenge against those who had opposing views, and whom he felt had dared to disagree or question him. Especially when he made inflammatory comments such as the "10% raid numbers", which were later taken back by other producers. I do not feel he acted with the care and neutrality his position required, and strongly feel he used his power for abusive and punitive ends.

[kickman77]

He was a sad man indeed. Because of him, once a decent community has vanished. Extremely poor community management and banning people whenever he felt like it. Anyone who remains on these forums are his followers who are equally toxic to the community. It's a good thing he was fired but too little too late...

But he was not fired, he resigned to take a job with the Extra Life Foundation

[treato]

is there at any point where you will review infractions that were given out by sapience abusing his administrative power?

he was notaries for banning, removing post and giving infractions unjustly while he worked at turbine, this sort of injustice should be held accountable.

There were a lot of infractions handed out unjustly that should be put right. I got an infraction for quoting part of a post in my thread, despite the original post I quoted being deemed ok. My husband got and infraction, didn't understand why and asked for clarification, the result was a lifetime ban for daring to query it!

But he was not fired, he resigned to take a job with the Extra Life Foundation

I didn't get infractions....maybe you should've thought about what you were posting....

[Zanishi]

But he was not fired, he resigned to take a job with the Extra Life Foundation

That is true... But I thought it was awfully coincidental that it preceded the annual layoffs by a few weeks. Along with the drastic change in moderation attitude in game and out.

[kickman77]

I didn't get infractions....maybe you should've thought about what you were posting....

Not sure why I was quoted in your post when the quote you have mentions nothing of infractions, just that he was not fired he resigned / quit to take a poition with The Extra Life Chairty

[Beaniemooch]

He was a sad man indeed. Because of him, once a decent community has vanished. Extremely poor community management and banning people whenever he felt like it. Anyone who remains on these forums are his followers who are equally toxic to the community. It's a good thing he was fired but too little too late...

He wasn't fired, he quit.

You're here and not his follower clearly.

So far, 0 for 2.

[Calta]

I'm glad someone brought this up. Up until a few months ago, this forum felt like an unwelcome place to discuss lotro, as the merest sharing of a personal opinion was likely to result in infraction or ban, if it was not the "correct", "approved" opinion.

This July I made a post in a discussion saying that I think majority of players like grouping, yet I received an infraction for "fabricated/misleading information". Someone was taking the administrative power a little too far. This was not the "open, welcoming place for discussions" that the forum banner promised.

I am glad to say that over the past few months, this forum has had a palpable change of atmosphere for the better. Discussions are more dynamic and relaxed, and multiple viewpoints are tolerated. Thank you for that.

The fact that players are reaching out to Turbine asking to review older infractions is a sign these players are still here, and still love/care about the game. As a gesture of goodwill, please consider this request and let bygones be bygones - all the more because it happened before the personnel change, and those earlier decisions do not reflect the forum in its current state.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

The inconsistency of application of the rules caused much anger in some quarters and simple confused frustration in others. I had hoped the slate would be quietly wiped clean with the change of personnel. As it has not, I agree with the OP's request-and, I wouild add, although their language was a tad 'blunt' it was certainly no ruder than many posts I have been on the recieving end of, or than some of the previous CMs' own 'blunt' (his word) posts.

I hope those perma-banned have a means to request their bans are now reviewed. As they can't post here, I am unsure if they can even access the PM function to the new CM...

For those who came in late-
I thought it was especially unfair to those people who lobbied against certain game changes and mistakenly said that had stopped playing as a result of the changes (the inference being that they would return when things changed.) They were banned for 'no longer being active in the game'.

Others were personally insulted, and flamebaited until they responded in kind, once. They, too, were banned/heavily infracted for trolling, but the original baiters were not apparently affected (despite multiple reports, from multiple players, for repeated baiting posts, across multiple threads.)

Some of those who posted farewell threads to a Community that they had helped with guides, resources, videos, raid leading, stats, costume blogs, etc.. were also banned for 'no longer being active in the game'. Or , even more astoundingly, they were infracted/banned for posting 'fabricated/misleading information' if they quoted log-in numbers or steam number to ba ck up their assertion their kin numbers /server log-ins were in decline, presumabley in order to avoid the trolling tag and being banned/infracted for that. Try to back it up and you get banned/infracted. Don't back it up and you are banned/infracted. That was worthy of Kafka or Heller.

One player in particular who was a forum regular, major community contributer, guide-writer, and always extremely civil, dared to chastise the previous CM for a particularly snarky post- and in it he also corrected the CM's hunter facts. He too was permabanned. (I saw the thread and relevant comments as they were posted, then watched them being 'disappeared'.) People who sprang to that person's defence also got banned/infracted for various lengths of time for 'discussing forum moderation'. Although for some reason I did not. ...

So not being banned/infracted was not simply a matter of following the rules, nor even of 'not what you say but how you say it'. It seemed much more mood and personality based than that. I was not banned for defending the player in question although I 'called out' the previous CM on the reason, immediately. I also chastised him for his tone on a couple of occasions, quite directly, and with no consequence.

I hope this sad episode of inconsistant and exteme use of authority is behind us forever and that these decisions are reviewed when the new CM and EP have time. I'd like to see some of the long term contributors to the Community, return. We are poorer without them.
Sincerely, Calta

[ShireDweller]

I couldn't have put it better myself.

The inconsistency of application of the rules caused much anger in some quarters and simple confused frustration in others. I had hoped the slate would be quietly wiped clean with the change of personnel. As it has not, I agree with the OP's request-and, I wouild add, although their language was a tad 'blunt' it was certainly no ruder than many posts I have been on the recieving end of, or than some of the previous CMs' own 'blunt' (his word) posts.

I hope those perma-banned have a means to request their bans are now reviewed. As they can't post here, I am unsure if they can even access the PM function to the new CM...

For those who came in late-
I thought it was especially unfair to those people who lobbied against certain game changes and mistakenly said that had stopped playing as a result of the changes (the inference being that they would return when things changed.) They were banned for 'no longer being active in the game'.

Others were personally insulted, and flamebaited until they responded in kind, once. They, too, were banned/heavily infracted for trolling, but the original baiters were not apparently affected (despite multiple reports, from multiple players, for repeated baiting posts, across multiple threads.)

Some of those who posted farewell threads to a Community that they had helped with guides, resources, videos, raid leading, stats, costume blogs, etc.. were also banned for 'no longer being active in the game'. Or , even more astoundingly, they were infracted/banned for posting 'fabricated/misleading information' if they quoted log-in numbers or steam number to ba ck up their assertion their kin numbers /server log-ins were in decline, presumabley in order to avoid the trolling tag and being banned/infracted for that. Try to back it up and you get banned/infracted. Don't back it up and you are banned/infracted. That was worthy of Kafka or Heller.

One player in particular who was a forum regular, major community contributer, guide-writer, and always extremely civil, dared to chastise the previous CM for a particularly snarky post- and in it he also corrected the CM's hunter facts. He too was permabanned. (I saw the thread and relevant comments as they were posted, then watched them being 'disappeared'.) People who sprang to that person's defence also got banned/infracted for various lengths of time for 'discussing forum moderation'. Although for some reason I did not. ...

So not being banned/infracted was not simply a matter of following the rules, nor even of 'not what you say but how you say it'. It seemed much more mood and personality based than that. I was not banned for defending the player in question although I 'called out' the previous CM on the reason, immediately. I also chastised him for his tone on a couple of occasions, quite directly, and with no consequence.

I hope this sad episode of inconsistant and exteme use of authority is behind us forever and that these decisions are reviewed when the new CM and EP have time. I'd like to see some of the long term contributors to the Community, return. We are poorer without them.
Sincerely, Calta

I agree 100%. /swordsalute